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blankseplocked Nightmare vs Abaddon
 
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SuiJuris
No.Mercy
Posted - 2009.10.20 19:47:00 - [1]
 

Ok, So, I happen to have Amarr BS to 4, and Caldari BS is only at 3, (almost all my gunnery skills are maxed except surgical strike, controlled burst, those are at 4. I have a 3% rof and a 3% large energy turret damage implant.

With my skills and implants EFT is saying the Nightmare will do more Turret DPS then my Abaddon, this doesn't seem right to me unless there is some weird stacking going on with the nightmares 100% damage bonus and its 5% per lvl damage bonus.

Because the Nightmare should have 4x Turrets with 100% +15% damage bonus to each or 4x2.15 turrets meaning 8.6 effective turrets where as the abaddon right now has 8x1.20 or 9.6 turrets.

My question is EFT correct or incorrect?

Both setups include 3x Amarr Navy Heatsinks.

Almrausch
Techno Vikings From Outer Space
Posted - 2009.10.20 19:50:00 - [2]
 

one does not simply jump into a nightmare without having maxed out both BS skills

silly person
Posted - 2009.10.20 19:55:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: silly person on 20/10/2009 19:55:09
Originally by: SuiJuris
Because the Nightmare should have 4x Turrets with 100% +15% damage bonus to each or 4x2.15 turrets meaning 8.6 effective turrets where as the abaddon right now has 8x1.20 or 9.6 turrets.


Your math is wrong. For the Nightmare, it is 4 turrets, x2, x1.15 with your skills, so 9.2 for you. Which is still less than the 9.6 your skills give you on the Armageddon. Not sure whats going on, but EFT is usually accurate, so I'd guess you go back and make sure you have everything setup the same in eft on both ships.

SuiJuris
No.Mercy
Posted - 2009.10.20 20:24:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Almrausch
one does not simply jump into a nightmare without having maxed out both BS skills


Sure one does, if its going to do more damage, with better tracking, and I've got the money I don't see why not. Its not like im going to undock one for PvP without maxed skills that would be dumb, but this is PvE, it doesn't really matter.

I'm guessing where the numbers might be fudged is maybe EFT is adding the implants into the turrets before the ship bonuses.

so 4x1.03 (damage implant) =4.12*1.0309 (ROF Implant) = 4.247 x2 = 8.4948 x 1.15 = 9.769. I rounded the numbers for typing but it looks like thats what EFT is doing.


Axebreaker Jones
Posted - 2009.10.20 20:24:00 - [5]
 

ye and silly person hopefully means abaddon not geddon.

with = lvl amarr bs and caldari bs they should be the same, if amarr is higher abbadon will be higher(maybe not practical because of higher tracking on the nightmare)

Shriken Grey
Paxton Industries
Posted - 2009.10.20 21:21:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Shriken Grey on 20/10/2009 21:21:09
.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.10.20 21:28:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: SuiJuris
I'm guessing where the numbers might be fudged is maybe EFT is adding the implants into the turrets before the ship bonuses.


Multiplication is commutative, and this is a multiplicative operation (furthermore, one without stacking penalties). With Cal BS 3 and Amarr BS 4, your Abaddon should have 9.6 (8*1.2)eff turrets and the NM should have 9.2 eff turrets (4*2*1.15).

Are you sure that you don't have drones enabled on the NM but not the Abaddon?

-Liang

SuiJuris
No.Mercy
Posted - 2009.10.20 21:43:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: SuiJuris on 20/10/2009 21:44:09
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: SuiJuris
I'm guessing where the numbers might be fudged is maybe EFT is adding the implants into the turrets before the ship bonuses.


Multiplication is commutative, and this is a multiplicative operation (furthermore, one without stacking penalties). With Cal BS 3 and Amarr BS 4, your Abaddon should have 9.6 (8*1.2)eff turrets and the NM should have 9.2 eff turrets (4*2*1.15).

Are you sure that you don't have drones enabled on the NM but not the Abaddon?

-Liang


Found the problem, on the Nightmare setup, hiding in the implants and boosters the 5% ROF and Large Energy Turret damage implants were enabled on that setup, thus overriding what is plugged in my character and making the Nightmares turret DPS show up as higher. Embarassed

That being said quick question for those who have used a Nightmare. 1 or 2 Shadow Serpentis Tracking computers? Do you use the rigs that reduce turret capacitor use or CCC's? Oh and this is of course for Tachyons.

baltec1
Posted - 2009.10.21 07:44:00 - [9]
 

CCC rigs and it has enough tracking to start with to pop frigates at 20km but by all means add more and be even betterTwisted Evil

Kendon Riddick
Posted - 2009.10.21 09:56:00 - [10]
 

with all those mids and shield boosting with an XL passive recharge mods are a waste of time - capinjector 4tw.

rigs should be tanking related or gun related to dmg or range.

i use Range - anti-em and shield booster cap use rigs with a heavy cap injector, works great.

also with a locus t2 and a t2 TE i get a 20km opt with multi and a 61km with scorch. yum.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2009.10.21 10:42:00 - [11]
 

For Nightmare rigs, I prefer :

1x Energy Discharge Elutrition II
2x CCC.

It gives the tachyon more staying power before it runs out of juice. This becomes an issue is long missions. With faction med shield booster, it becomes a perma run with all guns off - in the rare occasions where you need to wait (while under fire) for the cap to regenerate to use the tachyons.

If you're planning to run a Nightmare off cap boosters as standard fit, then :

1x Energy Discharge Elutrition II or 1x Burst Aerator I
2x Core Defence Capacitor safeguard II

Don't be put off by the T2 tag, they're pretty affordable straight from the market. If you build them yourself, it turns out a lot cheaper than expected.

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2009.10.21 16:33:00 - [12]
 

Hm, i have cccs fitted /i use nm without cap booster alot, some missions dont need boosting at all/, but there prolly wont be any big difference between using cccs, cccs + energy elutrition and cccs + cap safeguards /= you dont need more than 15+5 800s in any mission so...well i only fly sansha pocket in wc, so maybe here/.

Maybe trying t2 locus or t2 metastasis adjuster + cccs isnt completely stupid, but tbh when we are already talking about 0,035+ tracking and 45+km optimal with an mf, i dont think that will help much.

And t1 damage rigs are not worth using if you already have 4x hs /even t2 adds only like 200 alpha/.

1600 RT
Posted - 2009.10.21 19:13:00 - [13]
 

the nightamare use half cap to do the same dmg as abaddon.
the nightmare shield tank so leave you a lot of lows for damage mods

Tjao Chuu
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2009.10.21 22:08:00 - [14]
 

Wich system would this Nightmare be used in? >_>

baltec1
Posted - 2009.10.21 22:13:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Tjao Chuu
Wich system would this Nightmare be used in? >_>


This is why I stick with t2 fittingsLaughing

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2009.10.22 06:24:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: SuiJuris
That being said quick question for those who have used a Nightmare. 1 or 2 Shadow Serpentis Tracking computers? Do you use the rigs that reduce turret capacitor use or CCC's? Oh and this is of course for Tachyons.

None. You don't need tracking computers if you have proper skills. The Nightmare tracks more than enough at the ranges you'll be firing (40km+), and if it's a Worlds Collide kinda mission, you fit pulses.

With Aurora you can shoot way beyond your locking range, and if you use faction/deadspace/officer guns, you can use MW crystals and still shoot beyond lock range. Tracking is rarely a problem. If you absolutely NEED more tracking/optimal, fill the last low slot with a Tracking Enhancer. Tracking computers are just a waste.

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2009.10.22 12:07:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Ancy Denaries
...


You have no clue... 2x tc will increase your optimal with an mf from 38 to 47 km, with xray from 57 to 71 km...

Jintra Jin'tak
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Posted - 2009.10.22 12:42:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Jintra Jin''tak on 22/10/2009 12:41:55
Compare without and with heat sinks
Without, both are exact the same.
Seems, the HS's make the difference in calculating the actual damage.

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2009.10.22 17:26:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Ancy Denaries
...


You have no clue... 2x tc will increase your optimal with an mf from 38 to 47 km, with xray from 57 to 71 km...

Good point, I didn't actually consider that. It might just have a nice impact!

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2009.10.22 18:16:00 - [20]
 

remeber that pulse with scorch has double the tracking of a tach with t1/navy.

3 times the tracking with t1 all round.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.10.22 18:58:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Dr Fighter
remeber that pulse with scorch has double the tracking of a tach with t1/navy.

3 times the tracking with t1 all round.



tracking really isn't an issue even without any tracking mods on a paladin, nightmare already has one tracking bonus, and if you brought 2 tcs, you better have brought scripts.


 

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