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Mkiaki
Gallente
Progressive Business Solutions
Posted - 2009.10.20 16:50:00 - [1]
 

I should have an alt in a position to pilot a Nightmare shortly after Dominion. Without using silly expensive deadspace/officer mods whats a nice simple T2 fit you guys would use with the upcoming changes.


Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.10.20 17:12:00 - [2]
 

On this fit not 100% happy on the rigs. although tbh I haven't seen a nightmare fit I'm completely happy with yet.

the t2 rigs, and navy heatsinks are rather cheap (compared to ship cost at least) and pretty much worth including.

now as for upgrades
would:
faction booster, pithum boosters have very good cap:boost ratios. cn/dg xl, maybe boosts faster, so more hp/s then T2 but same hp:cap ratio (and thus higher cap/s). dual pithi smalls is an interesting way to do it, but takes up 2 slots.
wouldn't:
faction tracking comps add like 1km optimal, meh.
faction guns use a bit less cap but use less damage, meh
maybe:
deadspace hardeners, or cn invluns. other faction hardeners are pretty much the same as t2. but more of a cost to not much effectiveness ratio.

[Nightmare, PVE xl-injector]
Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II

X-Large Shield Booster II
Photon Scattering Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard II
Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5



tbh I'd love to just officer everything, but that is prohibitively expensive, and a shiny gank me magnet.

Shereza
Posted - 2009.10.20 17:19:00 - [3]
 

Off-hand, pick a fit that works now and use it then.

Changes:
+437 Shield HP
+1012.5 capacitor
-.03s recharge
+5km target range
+15mm scan resolution
+5 RADAR sensor strength
-60m signature radius

IOW, it's getting more HP, more capacitor, marginally faster cap recharge time, better targetting range and speed, harder to jam, and it will be slower to get locked and take less damage due to the lower base signature radius.

The ship is, so far as I can tell and presuming CCP didn't make other changes and fail to note that the changes listed on the first page of the pirate ship change log were outdated, getting a general buff across the board. As such any setup that works well now will work even better when Domination hits so you really don't need to worry about "post-Domination Nightmare setups" since they'll be pretty much the same as "pre-Domination Nightmare setups."

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2009.10.20 17:22:00 - [4]
 

How does Dominion change the 'mare? I thought it stayed pretty much the same...


Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

faction tracking comps add like 1km optimal, meh.


You use tracking comps for the tracking, not the optimal. Well, I do anyway. They're cheap and worth it imho.

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
faction guns use a bit less cap but use less damage, meh


Faction guns use a LOT less cap for slightly less damage. If you have cap issues with T2, a good alternative.


Tank mods imho are a waste of isk since theyre usually expensive and do nothing to make you finish the missions faster. Only owrth it for fitting issues imho.

Mkiaki
Gallente
Progressive Business Solutions
Posted - 2009.10.20 17:31:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Shereza
Off-hand, pick a fit that works now and use it then.

Changes:
+437 Shield HP
+1012.5 capacitor
-.03s recharge
+5km target range
+15mm scan resolution
+5 RADAR sensor strength
-60m signature radius

IOW, it's getting more HP, more capacitor, marginally faster cap recharge time, better targetting range and speed, harder to jam, and it will be slower to get locked and take less damage due to the lower base signature radius.

The ship is, so far as I can tell and presuming CCP didn't make other changes and fail to note that the changes listed on the first page of the pirate ship change log were outdated, getting a general buff across the board. As such any setup that works well now will work even better when Domination hits so you really don't need to worry about "post-Domination Nightmare setups" since they'll be pretty much the same as "pre-Domination Nightmare setups."


Thanks, I'll take a basic fit and work up from there. Cool

Katarlia Simov
Minmatar
Cowboys From Hell
Posted - 2009.10.20 18:01:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Leandro Salazar
How does Dominion change the 'mare? I thought it stayed pretty much the same...


Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

faction tracking comps add like 1km optimal, meh.


You use tracking comps for the tracking, not the optimal. Well, I do anyway. They're cheap and worth it imho.

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
faction guns use a bit less cap but use less damage, meh


Faction guns use a LOT less cap for slightly less damage. If you have cap issues with T2, a good alternative.


Tank mods imho are a waste of isk since theyre usually expensive and do nothing to make you finish the missions faster. Only owrth it for fitting issues imho.


Your mission-fu is strong.

Deadspace tanks just aren't worth it unless you will die without them. On a damage beast like a nightmare they are very meh. Hell you can even sling a cap booster in the mids and not need anything more than t2.

baltec1
Posted - 2009.10.20 18:01:00 - [7]
 

The only change I see me making is removing some of the cap mods I have on now and replacing them with more tracking.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2009.10.20 19:08:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Carniflex on 20/10/2009 19:09:47
Edit: Doh I should pay more attention. Chainsaw already posted exactly the same setup, just with T2 stuff. I'll leave mine here tho as I listed hardwires also :p

Originally by: baltec1
The only change I see me making is removing some of the cap mods I have on now and replacing them with more tracking.


My fit has done something like that. I also use injector ofc as I do not believe in permatanks.

H: 4x Tahyion II 2x Auto Target II
M: DG XL booster, H cap booster II (5x800), 3x DG hardener, 2x Shadow serpentis tracking computer
L: 3x Amarr Navy heatsink, 1x T2 heatsink, Domination tracking enhancer
Rigs: 3x CCC I (not the best for this but works) + T2 drones

Hardwires:
6 - Squire CR8 (5% cap recharge)
7 - Lancer G2 beta (5% lower turret capacitor need)
8 - Squire CC8 (5% larger capacitor)
9 - Gunslinger CX-2 (5% all turret damage) [or alternative is 5% all turret RoF]
10 - Lancer G2 (5% large energy turret damage)

If you are on budget (that can quite happen after shelling out the pile of isk for the ship hull) you will have fitting room to switch some stuff out for T2 and using 3% hardwires instead of 5% for almost as good performance. In slot 9 it's a bit better to go for extra damage over rof as it increases a bit amount of ships you can one volley and with activation delays after popping target RoF bonus is not that stellar when compared to 5% burst damage one (yes, in paper RoF bonus gives more theoretical dps). Auto Targeters are there to increase max number of targets you can lock. If you are running missions solo it's reasonable to switch one of those out for tractor to drag in those mission specific items that sometimes need picking up.

Mkiaki
Gallente
Progressive Business Solutions
Posted - 2009.10.20 19:46:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Carniflex
Edited by: Carniflex on 20/10/2009 19:09:47
Edit: Doh I should pay more attention. Chainsaw already posted exactly the same setup, just with T2 stuff. I'll leave mine here tho as I listed hardwires also :p

Originally by: baltec1
The only change I see me making is removing some of the cap mods I have on now and replacing them with more tracking.


My fit has done something like that. I also use injector ofc as I do not believe in permatanks.

H: 4x Tahyion II 2x Auto Target II
M: DG XL booster, H cap booster II (5x800), 3x DG hardener, 2x Shadow serpentis tracking computer
L: 3x Amarr Navy heatsink, 1x T2 heatsink, Domination tracking enhancer
Rigs: 3x CCC I (not the best for this but works) + T2 drones

Hardwires:
6 - Squire CR8 (5% cap recharge)
7 - Lancer G2 beta (5% lower turret capacitor need)
8 - Squire CC8 (5% larger capacitor)
9 - Gunslinger CX-2 (5% all turret damage) [or alternative is 5% all turret RoF]
10 - Lancer G2 (5% large energy turret damage)

If you are on budget (that can quite happen after shelling out the pile of isk for the ship hull) you will have fitting room to switch some stuff out for T2 and using 3% hardwires instead of 5% for almost as good performance. In slot 9 it's a bit better to go for extra damage over rof as it increases a bit amount of ships you can one volley and with activation delays after popping target RoF bonus is not that stellar when compared to 5% burst damage one (yes, in paper RoF bonus gives more theoretical dps). Auto Targeters are there to increase max number of targets you can lock. If you are running missions solo it's reasonable to switch one of those out for tractor to drag in those mission specific items that sometimes need picking up.


CheersCool

Giannamichaels
Posted - 2009.10.20 21:34:00 - [10]
 

domination tracking enhancers are no better than tech 2 but cost 30 times more, check stats on both they are the same, its a scam item lol

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.10.20 21:40:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Giannamichaels
domination tracking enhancers are no better than tech 2 but cost 30 times more, check stats on both they are the same, its a scam item lol


Domi TEs (15% optimal, 10% tracking) have a bit over 5% more tracking bonus than T2 TEs (15% optimal, 9.5% tracking)

-Liang

Clueless Alt
Posted - 2009.10.20 22:55:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Carniflex
7 - Lancer G2 beta (5% lower turret capacitor need)
Aren't the gunsliger ax-2 better (5% tracking)?

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.10.21 00:29:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Leandro Salazar
How does Dominion change the 'mare? I thought it stayed pretty much the same...


Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

faction tracking comps add like 1km optimal, meh.


You use tracking comps for the tracking, not the optimal. Well, I do anyway. They're cheap and worth it imho.

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
faction guns use a bit less cap but use less damage, meh


Faction guns use a LOT less cap for slightly less damage. If you have cap issues with T2, a good alternative.


Tank mods imho are a waste of isk since theyre usually expensive and do nothing to make you finish the missions faster. Only owrth it for fitting issues imho.


even on the paladin I almost never have an issue with tracking, nightmare already gets the built in bonus, and a tracking enhancer, hardly find it worth it to switch to the tracking scripts. the 2 tc with optimal + te gives 47km optimal, having 1k dps out to 50km is just fantastic.

and yes tank mods are mostly a waste of isk. but the cap use is just so godly on pithum/pithi.

Giannamichaels
Posted - 2009.10.21 06:30:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Giannamichaels
domination tracking enhancers are no better than tech 2 but cost 30 times more, check stats on both they are the same, its a scam item lol


Domi TEs (15% optimal, 10% tracking) have a bit over 5% more tracking bonus than T2 TEs (15% optimal, 9.5% tracking)

-Liang


its not worth it though its half a % thats not 5% is it?

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2009.10.21 06:30:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Clueless Alt
Originally by: Carniflex
7 - Lancer G2 beta (5% lower turret capacitor need)
Aren't the gunsliger ax-2 better (5% tracking)?


It probably would be indeed slightly better to use tracking one. Especially on the Dominion Nightmare as it's getting a bit more base capacitor anyway. Reason why I had that one in my list is propably initial capacitor issues. I started flying the thing with mostly L4 skills in Amarr part of skilltree and without cap injector. After I ended up with cap injector after few iterations of my setup I did not visit apparently my hardwire list to see if it's possible to optimize it futher.

Well spotted and thanx.

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2009.10.22 06:44:00 - [16]
 

WHY are you guys using tracking computers? The Nightmare already have insane tracking thanks to the ship bonus, and it can't really lock much further than 115 km (even with a Sig amp) and you hit easily out to that range with Aurora (or MW if you use faction pewpew).

What's so awesome about these tracking computers? :S

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.10.22 06:52:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Giannamichaels
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Giannamichaels
domination tracking enhancers are no better than tech 2 but cost 30 times more, check stats on both they are the same, its a scam item lol


Domi TEs (15% optimal, 10% tracking) have a bit over 5% more tracking bonus than T2 TEs (15% optimal, 9.5% tracking)

-Liang


its not worth it though its half a % thats not 5% is it?


I underlined the part you missed (it *IS* 5% more BONUS). :)

Whether or not it's worth it..... yeah I'd pay for it. It's an investment, like faction damage mods. If you don't like it you sell it back for what you bought it for.

-Liang

Jennz
Posted - 2009.10.22 08:40:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Ancy Denaries
What's so awesome about these tracking computers? :S
Cuts down on having to match transversal for one thing, and loading an optimal range script can push Xray out to Standard, Gamma out to Xray, etc range (assuming you're not using T2 Tachys).

If you can fit it comfortably it definitely helps with efficiency.

How do you guys deal with for example Angel BS orbiting at <10km when you travel slower than them without an AB/MWD? I find with a TE + TC with tracking script I only miss a few shots here and there.

Giannamichaels
Posted - 2009.10.22 08:52:00 - [19]
 

With a high grade crystal set u dont need a boost amplifier so you can slot a faction tracking comp into a medslot with a speed and range script

Qui Shon
Posted - 2009.10.22 10:29:00 - [20]
 

Expensive tank mods are certianly not useless, what silly statements I see in this thread.

They reduce the needed amount of slots used on tank, and/or give capability to mass aggro.

I'd go with CCC's over the shield boost cap saving rigs because otherwise you'll have to run your guns on the cap booster after just a few minutes. Which is doable I guess, in most situations, but not all. Especially not if you do multiple misshuns per undock.


Oh, aurora has no place on a PvE Nightmare, it's dps is too low.

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2009.10.22 10:48:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Qui Shon
Expensive tank mods are certianly not useless, what silly statements I see in this thread.

They reduce the needed amount of slots used on tank, and/or give capability to mass aggro.

I'd go with CCC's over the shield boost cap saving rigs because otherwise you'll have to run your guns on the cap booster after just a few minutes. Which is doable I guess, in most situations, but not all. Especially not if you do multiple misshuns per undock.


Oh, aurora has no place on a PvE Nightmare, it's dps is too low.


i find the cap use vs the passive recharge lacking maybe afte rthe boost the cap will be good enough to warrnt the cap recharge mods/rigs - but as it is now i lub my cap boosters.

Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:08:00 - [22]
 

I love cap boosters too because besides peak tank it gives me peace of mind fighting Blood. It makes the grid tight though if you want AB too.

Basically, Nightmare will be the same as ever, slightly buffed and more pleasing to use.

Phantasm and Succubus are the ones losing ground, not the ship that actually matters, everyones belowed moneymaker.

Helen
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:31:00 - [23]
 

Odd I must be the only one to prefer a Sensor Booster over a 2nd Tracking Computer.

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:53:00 - [24]
 

- difference between t2 and faction te is like 0,0001 r/s tracking on tachys Very Happy
- aurora is useless for missioning
- difference between cap safeguards/nrg elutriations/cccs is minimal, but if you use nm without cap booster for some missions, cccs are better
- expensive tank mods are not needed for l4 nm, they wont increase your l4 efficiency /seriously, would you fit 3 tracking comps or what?/
- if you want to use nm without boosters /personal preferences or whatever/, highend tanking mods are necesary if you still want be able to aggro everything to get rats to mf range asap - and cap boost in dominion wont change much about it
- for jennz : its easy to lower their transversal even without ab, if you dont like manual piloting in missions, use web - but if i remember good, most time they die before coming to close orbit

Qui Shon
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:55:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Dr Fighter
Originally by: Qui Shon
Expensive tank mods are certianly not useless, what silly statements I see in this thread.

They reduce the needed amount of slots used on tank, and/or give capability to mass aggro.

I'd go with CCC's over the shield boost cap saving rigs because otherwise you'll have to run your guns on the cap booster after just a few minutes. Which is doable I guess, in most situations, but not all. Especially not if you do multiple misshuns per undock.


Oh, aurora has no place on a PvE Nightmare, it's dps is too low.


i find the cap use vs the passive recharge lacking maybe afte rthe boost the cap will be good enough to warrnt the cap recharge mods/rigs - but as it is now i lub my cap boosters.


Yea, obviously you need a cap booster too, but powering both guns and active tank from the cap booster eats up a lot of charges. So you can keep guns firing long enough to get through most missions on just CCC's, while the cap booster is for when you need both active tank and guns.


 

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