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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Posted - 2009.10.21 01:13:00 - [121]
 

Lay off the personal attacks on the artist.

They did their job and don't deserve this kind of personal insulting nonsense. That said, if CCP were prepared to listen to opinions on this they should either change it back or modify the design.

Visual looks and effects are one of the strengths of Eve, so I hope they realise that "blindly" changing the look of things without getting proper feedback will lose them customers.

RedClaws
Amarr
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.10.21 08:59:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
lettuce in space.


Laughing

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.10.21 09:30:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: Abrazzar on 21/10/2009 11:08:26
The problem with the camouflage is not a matter of taste either. The camouflage does what camouflage is supposed to be doing: Obfuscating (shape) details on the object the camouflage is applied to.

This means the highly detailed ship models get the visibility of the details reduced ending up looking less detailed and thus, in comparison with the differently skinned ship variations, looking more ugly/boring/messy.

While the camouflage pattern can be used for aesthetics purposes, the details of the ship models need to be colored in a way that makes them stick out more, as I did, for example, in the photoshop in the above post.

This way you can retain the detail visibility on the navy ships and make them look rich and interesting (even) with a camouflage pattern applied.Smile

EDIT: Made two quick shoops on a mega hull to show what I mean:
With patter breakers
Pure camo

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.10.21 10:55:00 - [124]
 

This is sad...

5 pages of whine about silly ship textue but absolutely no one minds the fact that the production of T2 ship require several POS, their defense and maintenance - ice harvesting, 0.0 ore mining and their refinement via simple and complex reactions, component construction, BPO invention and research, production skills and slots, on top of this there is a quite logistical effort to accomplish this tasks and all this is being replaced by couple hours of solo mission grind...

But yeah, cry for textures...



Katabrok First
Caldari
Apukaray Security
Posted - 2009.10.21 11:33:00 - [125]
 

I usually don't post on devblog threads, but this time I had to. I really think that the way CCP is treating us in the camothron issue is totally wrong. What I read in this devblog was: "We will use the camo as it is, so shut up and swallow it". I dislike this new paint job, but CCP's attitude has been the worst possible.


An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.21 11:40:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Katabrok First
I usually don't post on devblog threads, but this time I had to. I really think that the way CCP is treating us in the camothron issue is totally wrong. What I read in this devblog was: "We will use the camo as it is, so shut up and swallow it". I dislike this new paint job, but CCP's attitude has been the worst possible.




This is the worst outrage there is!

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.21 12:38:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Typhado3 on 21/10/2009 12:41:10
Quote:
.... and its primary role is supposed to be a hit and run vessel that "kites" its targets.



Ok this is something about minmatar that has always annoyed me. Kiting and hit and run seem to be opposites, why are we trying to do both at once? Hit and run is very short battles and lots of running, you need to get in hit them hard and get out (sorta like arty after the change, or a abbadon desinged for 1 minute fights), and we have the get out down fine though agility is kinda important for running. Kiting is the exact oposite it makes the battle last a long time, you keep moving just wearing down your enemy with pot shots while they can't hit you back.



so we have a ship that gets in fast takes a long time to kill target then gets out fast as hit and run. sounds like a jet proppelled steam roller being used for a hit and run.


Sylvaen
Posted - 2009.10.21 13:26:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Sylvaen on 21/10/2009 13:27:35
Dear CCP,

You requested and received plenty of feedback on these changes via the Test Server forum.

Please confirm your intentions were honest by indicating any feedback that has lead you to make changes to your original ideas.

Thx

matarkhan
Suprema Exstinctio
Numerus Ruina.
Posted - 2009.10.21 14:37:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: matarkhan on 21/10/2009 14:50:18
Edited by: matarkhan on 21/10/2009 14:49:46
Quote:
Rogue Drones do not care about politics, marketing or profit and as such you can't have their stuff, no matter how cool they may look. More accurately, they literally are the ship they infest, so any cohabitation with a pod-pilot would be short at best.


I think you may have missed an opportunity here, but it could have been far too much work.

You've got two situations here:

1) You've created fighter-bombers
2) You've got completely useless stuff in-game about making named drones from drone rat loot

It would've been really cool if the fighter-bombers were made from drone loot, and had some sort of storyline behind them, along with more of the crazy drone artwork. Some of that stuff is genius, they're genuinely creepy to look at, even for a jaded old Eve pilot. Having a fleet of those creepy-ass things swarming at you in battle would've been sweet.

So anyway, is there any plan to revisit the whole "named drones" thing?


[EDIT] Oh, and re: the whole camo thing... It's wrong on a purely logical level. There are no trees or underbrush in space. End of discussion.

It's like you would bump into the new Domi shopping at WalMart. Can my avatar have a bright orange hat with earflaps?

AeonOfTime
Minmatar
Syrkos Technologies
Joint Venture Conglomerate
Posted - 2009.10.21 17:48:00 - [130]
 

*expects faction ship prices to burst through the roof just about... now. *

Nick Bete
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.10.21 18:00:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Caldor Mansi
This is sad...

5 pages of whine about silly ship textue but absolutely no one minds the fact that the production of T2 ship require several POS, their defense and maintenance - ice harvesting, 0.0 ore mining and their refinement via simple and complex reactions, component construction, BPO invention and research, production skills and slots, on top of this there is a quite logistical effort to accomplish this tasks and all this is being replaced by couple hours of solo mission grind...

But yeah, cry for textures...





Snarkiness aside, Caldor has a point. But while I agree that the whole T2 manufacturing process is overly complex and almost as bad from a (fun) gameplay standpoint as the sovereignty mechanics they're dumping (T3 is even worse), all people are asking CCP to do in these "kill the camo" posts is to not implement some textures rather than a major rewrite of the manufacturing mechanic.

You should know better Caldor. It takes CCP 6-12 months to realize there's a problem and IF (big IF here) they decide that it can be fixed without a major overhaul, another 6-12 months of study, balancing, testing, etc. Dumping the ugly textures only takes someone sending a memo saying "nix the new artwork, leave things as they are".

Ghoest
Posted - 2009.10.21 18:20:00 - [132]
 

The camo babble is absurd - mainly because its drowning out the universal disdain for the Fleet Tempest changes from players who fly Caldari.

THE NEW TEMPEST IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!!

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.10.21 18:58:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 21/10/2009 18:58:43
Originally by: Ghoest
The camo babble is absurd - mainly because its drowning out the universal disdain for the Fleet Tempest changes from players who fly Caldari.

THE NEW TEMPEST IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!!


In all seriousness, whether the new Fleet Tempest meets approval or disapproval is going to come from testing of the new ship WITH the new stats for projectile weaponry. I could be wrong, but alot of folks seem to be of the opinion that it may indeed be acceptable with both changes in mind (many of the folks insisting that it isn't up to snuff seem to indicate they are basing their opinion on current projectile stats).

You could very well be right, but I think I have to reserve judgement personally until some serious time is spent testing with the whole package.


Irdia Freelancer
Posted - 2009.10.21 19:30:00 - [134]
 

If one doesn't like a new ship, be it its looks or something else, just dont buy it.

A choice of a new ship or choice of no new ship - most would like the choice of the new ship. New ships wont always have the same role as prior ships and guessing all roles without even flying them is jumping the gun.

Any decent pilot can make almost any ship work. All the complaints suggest less than decent piloting from some.

Tipz NexAstrum
Celestial Horizon Corp.
United Corporate Ventures
Posted - 2009.10.22 05:12:00 - [135]
 

It's not a matter of taste, space cammo is just plain stupid. I find it interesting that nobody can come up with an argument for it, whereas the rest of us have a clearly defined position. Quit with the cop outs and give faction BS the painjob[sic] they truly deserve... totalhelldeath BLACK!!!


Gary Goat
Yakuza Corp
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:28:00 - [136]
 

The navy mega and domi skins are absolutely horrible.

And the explanation given in the blog for keeping them is totally flawed.

1) Since when has the camo scheme been the gal navys colour? I cant remember the last time i saw a navy cruiser but i'm guessing they are the only ones at the moment.I dont think the navy vexor even had a camo texture before trinity!

2) The comet looks awesome! Its a gallente navy ship, its not camo coloured, its AWSOME! Seriously if you're using the argument that the ugly camo is the gal navy colours then why is the comet exempt?

3) The deimos? I'm pretty sure it isnt a gal navy ship!


So why replace the awesome black navy mega to a vile puke coloured camo? Doesnt make any sense. Its not just the colour either, I can live with that colour if it was done well, I actually like it on the deimos but its been executed terribly on the battleships. It looks like a copy and paste job.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.10.22 15:10:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: AeonOfTime
*expects faction ship prices to burst through the roof just about... now. *


that bubble already happed and is mostly burst at this point. see the dates of when the test server thread was started Laughing

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.10.22 19:05:00 - [138]
 

The five medslots on the Hookbill are worthless unless you give it the CPU to actually fit anything in them. There isn't a zero-CPU equivalent of the lowslot mods for it to use. It also needs more PG. The Hawk is similarly stupidly tight on CPU, one of the many factors contributing to its status as Worst Ship In Game.

Linkage

Also, when are you going to announce the roflket fix?

Avernus
Gallente
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.10.22 23:57:00 - [139]
 

Quote:
Q: Why having camouflage skins on navy battleships?
A: The black and white skin you were used to on the Megathron Navy Issue has never been the proper Gallente Navy version paintjob and this is why it was changed. As some of you guessed, the correct one was already used on the EVE store Megathron Navy miniature. We are deeply sorry you may not like the new skins, however this unfortunately remains a matter of taste. But if you ask me, my preference would be that dreadnoughts in siege mode should transform into huge space robots with vacuum cleaners.

This would perhaps account for the chanting 'Suck! Suck! Suck!'?

Trefnis
Minmatar
LOST IDEA
C0VEN
Posted - 2009.10.23 08:42:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Caldor Mansi
This is sad...

5 pages of whine about silly ship textue but absolutely no one minds the fact that the production of T2 ship require several POS, their defense and maintenance - ice harvesting, 0.0 ore mining and their refinement via simple and complex reactions, component construction, BPO invention and research, production skills and slots, on top of this there is a quite logistical effort to accomplish this tasks and all this is being replaced by couple hours of solo mission grind...

But yeah, cry for textures...





yeah, you buy components, put it in pos, get ship, tons of work i tell you,
if you try to do all of those by yourself then you are an idiot

Kaalen
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.10.24 12:09:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Caldor Mansi
This is sad...

5 pages of whine about silly ship textue but absolutely no one minds the fact that the production of T2 ship require several POS, their defense and maintenance - ice harvesting, 0.0 ore mining and their refinement via simple and complex reactions, component construction, BPO invention and research, production skills and slots, on top of this there is a quite logistical effort to accomplish this tasks and all this is being replaced by couple hours of solo mission grind...

But yeah, cry for textures...





Sorry for giving feedback about faction ship changes in a thread about faction ship changes?

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2009.10.25 07:27:00 - [142]
 

Changing Faction ships to be comparable with T2 ships can be seen as diminishing the value of the corp wide effort that goes into generating a T2 ship then the one man grind that goes into getting a Faction ship.

Hence it is a reference the performance changes to Faction ships


Lusulpher
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.26 07:40:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Originally by: Reten Kip
Originally by: Abrazzar
Well, on the navy salad camo, I made a proposition adding to the others:

Navy ships in brushed steel and coal:

Dominix
Vexor




Hot. CCP, fire your artists and do this.


Looks like an Amarr Gallente combo. No thank you.

--Isaac

For Amarr I actually made this paint. IMHO, Amarr Navy should be bright and glorious. They see themselves as the saviors of the universe and not as something dark and ominous. Smile


I did a bit of playing around with photoshop and found out what is making the camo on gallente so sub-par: It covers the whole ship, obfuscating the details on the model design.

This makes the ship look spray painted, botchy and boring. I'd propose, if you have to stick with camo, add areas of solid color and use more colors on details.

For example using the template from above links, make everything in coal black camouflage and everything steel a solid color, even if it's just another shade of green and small mechanical details in steel or grey. This way it'd retain the level of detail of the original ship.


OMG YES!!!!

Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
Posted - 2009.10.27 06:00:00 - [144]
 

Personally Id rather have a Roden megathron since their shipyards have started popping up everywhere. People who moan for 5 pages about a texture ARE sad. You don't have to buy a ship if you don't like the way it looks.

Kaalen
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.10.28 00:06:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Terranid Meester
Personally Id rather have a Roden megathron since their shipyards have started popping up everywhere. People who moan for 5 pages about a texture ARE sad. You don't have to buy a ship if you don't like the way it looks.


What if I already have one? You'd moan for more than 5 pages if someone spray painted your car with green camo and you didn't get a say.

Besides, for me at least, it's less about the texture itself and more about how CCP basically just gave us the finger in that dev blog.

Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.10.28 01:51:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 28/10/2009 02:41:30
Originally by: Abrazzar
Edited by: Abrazzar on 19/10/2009 17:04:08
Well, on the navy salad camo, I made a proposition adding to the others:

Navy ships in brushed steel, coal and cobalt lights:

Dominix
Vexor


That's a lot sexier. /Me wants!
Perhaps green instead of blue, though.

Regarding the Fleet Tempest 6 meds and 6 lows is definitely the way to go. Flexible, unpredictable.
If it doesn't work, there are reasons that prevent it from working. Fix those reasons instead of making everything the same.
Hell, the Raven has 6 meds and it's possible to PvP in it. Major downside is speed and agility, a problem the Fleet Tempest hopefully doesn't have.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2009.10.31 13:15:00 - [147]
 

Quote:
Q: Why having camouflage skins on navy battleships?
A: The black and white skin you were used to on the Megathron Navy Issue has never been the proper Gallente Navy version paintjob and this is why it was changed. As some of you guessed, the correct one was already used on the EVE store Megathron Navy miniature. We are deeply sorry you may not like the new skins, however this unfortunately remains a matter of taste. But if you ask me, my preference would be that dreadnoughts in siege mode should transform into huge space robots with vacuum cleaners.
This is not an excuse for a lack of taste. NO ONE likes the camouflage and it feels very much like some retarded artist in your art department, with no idea of the game itself, and having only experience with actual real life weapons and games based on modern weapons thought that it would be a good idea. It doesn't change the fact that it is
  • sloppy
  • lazy on CCP's part (no surprise here)
  • full of the typical CCP cowardice that we have come to know and love, in that you, as usual will not admit to having fucked up, once again
.

S'T'A'L'K'E'R
Pirate Academy
Posted - 2009.11.01 01:24:00 - [148]
 

Quote:
We are deeply sorry you may not like the new skins, however this unfortunately remains a matter of taste.

There is 2 ship types in EVE: ugly and symmetrical. So, just put in mind that CCP designers have no taste at all. Designe is weakest part of EVE.

Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.11.03 08:22:00 - [149]
 

I really love the upcoming changes but i always hoped to get another shield tanking - autocannon ship. I love the maelstrom but you make it the only one ingame (except the vargur)

I hoped that the Fleet Tempest or Machariel would go that way.

Kiri Serrensun
Posted - 2009.11.04 14:50:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Caldor Mansi
Nice.
When will be Raiding and Purple gear introduced..?

Go ahead and make EVE dumber and dumber, you're doing it well.


Also, this will kill small gang warfare and promote blobs.

I've no idea how it will do this, I just wanted to cover all the accusations that have been flung at every change to anything since ever.


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