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Namtar
Gallente
Rogue Industries
Posted - 2009.10.19 16:32:00 - [31]
 

I read this:

Q: Can we have ships from mini-factions like the Equilibrium of Mankind?
A: Offering EoM ships to players would either mean having them drop through loot somehow, which is not really acceptable, or require them to be a fully fledged pirate organization, with territory, asteroid belt infestation, LP stores, agents and complexes. Doing so is a tremendous task which is not planned or even considered at the time being.


But what about Khanid Kingdom? They are a fully fledged organization with agents and such.

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.10.19 16:36:00 - [32]
 

Re: Camo 'paint jobs'
I published this justification last week based upon a description in one of Iain M Banks novels - a description of what those 'camo' paint jobs actually represent and why they're mainly found on very exclusive faction ships.

Sci-Fi Justification For Camoflage Design

In Short: The camo is a fractal that appears throughout the internals of the ship and extentds down to molecular resolution and makes it much harder to scan and reverse engineer these exclusive navy designs.

Mana Sanqua
Posted - 2009.10.19 16:37:00 - [33]
 

I want to add my voice to those that think the new Gallente Navy colour schemes are terrible and whilst it may be an opinion, it would be nice if CCP listened to the majorities opinion and left them alone rather than bringing in these eyesores.

Nai'gah
Posted - 2009.10.19 16:38:00 - [34]
 

Please refrain from posting images into threads directly.Applebabe

Linkage 1
Linkage 2
Linkage 3

Liliana Rahl
Posted - 2009.10.19 16:48:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Liliana Rahl on 19/10/2009 16:52:15
Quote:
Offering EoM ships to players would either mean having them drop through loot somehow, which is not really acceptable, or require them to be a fully fledged pirate organization, with territory, asteroid belt infestation, LP stores, agents and complexes. Doing so is a tremendous task which is not planned or even considered at the time being.


i cried Crying or Very sad

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2009.10.19 16:50:00 - [36]
 

Quote:
Q: Why nerfing Navy Battleship shield recharge rate?

Then nerf all of them? The point that the tempest fleet issue having a good passive tank now was good. Except you nerfed it to where it's wholey unusable in mission running. Maybe you mean minnie to be completely incapable of running missions.

Quote:
Q: The Republic Fleet Tempest sucks.

Never did fight a fleet tempest. My navythron fit with my skills melts crystal maelstroms. The fleet tempest was able to take my beating for a long time due to the proj changes. So was good. So easily translates. Except you nerfed it's shield recharge rate which blew it's chance of being used by mission runners. So kinda blows. Doesnt really hurt me at all and I only trained minnie to get hurricane for salvaging.

Quote:
Q: Why does the Gila have a 400m3 dronebay when the Ishtar has 375m3?

Except the fact that most ishtar pilots havent trained hacs 5? So really it's 400m3 vs 325m3. Quickly noticeable. So gallente cruiser skill cancels each other out. So it becomes Caldari cruiser vs Hac.

Hac is rank 6 skill. Cruiser is rank 5. Hac having some prereqs but... big deal. Cruiser 5 has loads of other lines of value. Recons? Hics? tengu? hac 5 has erm ya marauders i guess.

Quote:
Furthermore 25m3 is hardly a noticable difference for the expected price difference between an Ishtar and Gila.

So you are balancing ships based on expected prices then?

I'll say it again. Gila is so op compared to ishtar. Hell I fly both... so...

Quote:
Q: Why is the Vindicator is so close of the Kronos in terms of performance?

It really isnt that good relative to the kronos tbh. Kronos has 3 utility highslots. More tanking bonus. Only 4 guns worth of ammo and capusage.

In my opinion... since you dont use faction/marauder ships in sniper roles. That repair bonus is much more valuable then slightly better ehp.

Want to make vindicator better? Give it a 5% drone dmg per level or base 25% drone dmg ship bonus. That'd make it so worth it.

Quote:
Remember that due to the magnitude and nature of this change, you may fly a ship that has its slot layout changed during Dominion. If that is the case we highly recommend you to dock before the expansion downtime to minimize any issue that could possible arise after.

IOW dont go fit your bhaalgorn at the pos with 7-8 guns and go exploiting

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.10.19 17:01:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Abrazzar on 19/10/2009 17:04:08
Well, on the navy salad camo, I made a proposition adding to the others:

Navy ships in brushed steel, coal and cobalt lights:

Dominix
Vexor


Reten Kip
Everset Dropbears
Posted - 2009.10.19 17:03:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Well, on the navy salad camo, I made a proposition adding to the others:

Navy ships in brushed steel and coal:

Dominix
Vexor




Hot. CCP, fire your artists and do this.

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2009.10.19 17:09:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Zarnak Wulf on 19/10/2009 17:10:47
I like the Spaceball reference. She's gone from suck to blow!

Edit: Will the LP cost for faction frigates and cruisers ever come down? 240LP for a faction cruiser is a bit over the top.

el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.10.19 17:18:00 - [40]
 

So CCP, since you've lost your f*cking minds and are deadset on the Salad Issue Megathron, will the Diemost get the proper Duvolle paintjob? And on that note, will the Diemost ever get the attention (buff) it deserves ... since you shelved those changes for EA?

And I will ask even though I doubt I will receive a response: are there any plans in the pipe for Ammatar, Interbus, Intaki, Mordus, SOE, and/or Syndicate ships? Any chance Thukker and Khanid ships can be sheared-off into their own faction for the sake of consistency ... since ... I am stuck with a green camo Megathron. I'm just saying ...

And ffs, get a custom model for the Bhaal.

The rabble rabble rabble aside, cheers for the excellent and long-overdue changes. Very Happy

For the record: I will sell my soul for a Drone Domi. Or a Roden Myr.

Manfred Rickenbocker
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.10.19 17:20:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 19/10/2009 17:20:51
Quote:

* Q: The Rattlesnake is as useful as an unplugged microwave in the Sahara desert.
o A: While it does less damage than the other pirate battleships or even a close range fitted Dominix, remember it can project damage further with the missile velocity bonus, while having an amazing shield tank. On a passive tank configuration, it can hardly be stopped with ECM (drones and high Gravemetric sensor strength), sensor dampeners (still drones), tracking disrupted (no turrets), cannot be energy drained (passive shield tank) while itself using energy neutralizers and hardly feeling the side-effects.


So are you saying we can actually fit a -decent- passive shield tank on a battleship? Sign me up! This'll give me an excuse to train missiles.

Quote:

* Q: Can we have ships from mini-factions like the Equilibrium of Mankind?
o A: Offering EoM ships to players would either mean having them drop through loot somehow, which is not really acceptable, or require them to be a fully fledged pirate organization, with territory, asteroid belt infestation, LP stores, agents and complexes. Doing so is a tremendous task which is not planned or even considered at the time being.


I like the idea of adding them to the random rat-spawn table to be on par with Officers and named rats. I mean, c'mon, Amarr ships with pretty blue hulls? Who doesnt love that? Besides, there's no Amarr/Gallente hybrid design, so it would fill a gap. Not sure about its niche, aside from being Amarr with Hybrid Blasters.

Quote:

* Q: Why are Rogue Drones not offering me ships?
o A: Rogue Drones do not care about politics, marketing or profit and as such you can't have their stuff, no matter how cool they may look. More accurately, they literally are the ship they infest, so any cohabitation with a pod-pilot would be short at best.


If the Rogue Drones can be reprogrammed to do some nefarious bidding, Im sure pod-pilots can figure out a way to get it done. Besides, it doesnt have to do with marketing or profit, it has to do with taking the scraps of super-powerful drones and re-applying the advanced tech to current designs.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.10.19 17:30:00 - [42]
 

Quote:
* Q: The Republic Fleet Tempest sucks.
o A: The current Fleet Tempest changes are supposed to go on par with CCP Nozh changes to projectile turrets, so keep that in mind while doing your calculations. Also, due its current slot versatility (6 med/6 lows) there are always going to be people that prefer a certain setups over others, thus it is not possible to make everybody happy no matter how we change it. However, we feel the current slot changes (5 med/ 7 lows) and the shield/armor hitpoint swap will help more as the almost mandatory PvP med slot equipment would inevitably conflict with a shield tank.



And it sucks even more now. I mean, it makes absolutely no sense to take the fastest, most agile (ish) BS, and then be forced to gimp its greatest strength by whacking plates and armour rigs on it. It's nonsense. There's precious little diversity in BS at the moment, and adding another armour-tanked turret BS to the multitude of armour-tanked turret BS is stupid. Make it a 6-6 shield tank, and for God's sake fix the insane CPU requirements of Shield Transporters. Get away from this tedious armour-tanking turret BS monotony and inject some diversity and life into BS. Same goes for the Tempest itself.

Quote:
* Q: Why does the Machariel not have a 8/7/5 layout?
o A: This is quite a dilemma. While shield tanking would definitely help to keep the ship nimble by fitting low slots with appropriate modules, it would still conflict with PvP tackling equipment, which defeats the intended role of that vessel. Furthermore, it will keep a speed advantage even if armor plating a ship is your hobby.



See Fleet Tempest. The Machariel's role is to be a fast, mobile BS. It's absurd to armour-tank it and nobody will. It should be 6-6 at least - the "PVP tackling equipment" that it needs is just MWD and point, leaving plenty of room for an appropriate shield buffer tank on a 6-7 medslot Mach. And fix the bloody CPU requirements of Shield Transporters so that shield remote-rep BS gangs are actually possible (meaning that a Megathron or Armageddon should find it as easy/difficult to fit a Large Shield Transporter as they do a Large Remote Armour Repairer), rather than the current exercise in shoehorning coprocessors on to your BS.

Also, the Navy Hookbill is horrifically short of CPU. And where's the roflket fix?

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2009.10.19 17:31:00 - [43]
 

Never mind EOM and Drones, I want a SOE ship since I've somehow managed to get really good standing with them.

Rotti
Posted - 2009.10.19 17:37:00 - [44]
 

If you want them to be used more in PVP then stop them being named Navy in the overview cause this really means PRIMARY

Elsa Nietzsche
Posted - 2009.10.19 17:53:00 - [45]
 

I like the explanations but I do have some questions/concerns.
Right now I fly the navythron on TQ to run level 4s. Fitting everything with my skills has been difficult so the changes to PG and CPU are really great. I've messed around on SiSi and really like the changes. I'm sure all the gallente drone pilots are wetting themselves over the navy domi. It's sex, plain and simple.
As others have said, the color scheme sucks and CCP is being little more than bull headed about that.
My real concern is that the step up from the navythron to the kronos has been reduced further. While the requirements for the *upgrade* are steep and significant the ROI of such a transistion is becoming less and less. There is a recent thread on how the current navythron is only a minor step down from the kronos. Obviously, what I'm getting at is that the kornos could use a buff. But the reality may be sevral of the T2 BSs could use a buff. I've often read that the CNR will outpreform a Golem.
Is there a reason that T2 BSs are becoming princess ships?
As another poster said, they take vast amounts of players, resources and time to build but now a solo mission runner can get a ship on par with them through the pirate ships. Why is this reasonable?

These issues aside, many of the other changes I've seen on Sisi have been great and I really like how CCP has made changes that enhance game play and usability. Can't wait to see the final product.

Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2009.10.19 17:57:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Random Womble on 19/10/2009 18:00:02
being a nub

Jordan Musgrat
Convergent
Posted - 2009.10.19 18:07:00 - [47]
 

Navy skins should not be camo. There is no space jungle for them to hide in, and especially seeing how navy ships are very RP based, they should stick to RP. Unless you want to introduce space jungles.

The Fleet Tempest does indeed need its shield tank. We can fly Machs if we want armor tanks, or almost any other faction ship. Leave the Matari just 1 faction shield tanking ship, that's the best way to go about it.

Other than that, great job.

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.10.19 18:38:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
Navy skins should not be camo. There is no space jungle for them to hide in, and especially seeing how navy ships are very RP based, they should stick to RP. Unless you want to introduce space jungles.


Read this - an RP explanation for camo on fancy military ships.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1195675

Ragel Tropxe
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.19 18:42:00 - [49]
 

we already have 2 races that are focused on armour tanking - why do you insist on making Minmatar ships do the same?

Fleet Tempest should be at least 8/6/6 if not 8/7/5.

This just seems to reinforce the impression that you have absolutely no clue how to balance Minmatar or indeed what their racial role at BS level is.

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2009.10.19 18:50:00 - [50]
 

"* Q: Why is the Republic Fleet Firetail losing its 25% speed bonus?
o A: It receives an in-built 15% speed boost with the changes and remains the fastest navy frigate. Increasing that bonus back to 25% would put it in line with Interceptors while having all the other boosts it receives now, which would not be in line with other navy frigates. "

This is completely bogus, to fly the firetail you need minmatar frigate III, which worked out to a 15% bonus on the old firetail. My firetail is still the fastest ship I fly, I'll be sad to see it lose that.


Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
Posted - 2009.10.19 19:11:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Reten Kip
You guys used the same excuse when you knocked the Helios out of the park with the ugly stick. You could have swapped Imicus/Maulus/Keres/Helios around since nobody flies the Maulus/Keres, but NO. You decided it would be better to kick all the Gallente pilots in the nuts and to hell with what your PAYING CUSTOMERS thought about it.


The hull changes for the Cov. Ops were needed to correct an older error regarding T2 hull assignments. The Helios was never supposed to have any other hull than the Imicus. Compare the Gallente frigate lineups with the lineups of the other races, and it will be clear as day to you. It has nothing to do with appearance or popularity of hulls. It sucks, but there you go. I'm not saying that the skin changes were necessary and or justifiable, but comparing them to the hull changes is comparing apples and oranges.

But on the subject of ship skins...there are tons of ships in EvE using either the wrong skin (related to their Faction) or an ugly skin. A general overhaul is needed, but it all seems to strand on the CCP Art Department, of all places. They seem to have the final word on how the ships look in-game, not the game designers or upper level management. It sucks, but on the upside there's a decent chance the skins will be changed...someday.

And regarding the "PAYING CUSTOMERS!!!" comment, I suggest you read the EULA again. This is CCP's game, not yours. You're only paying to be allowed to use it. IIRC the EULA does not state that CCP has to listen to their customers, so be grateful that they do.

Ulstan
Posted - 2009.10.19 19:15:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Ulstan on 19/10/2009 19:16:50
What we are missing is a fix to rockets :D So the hookbill and worm can actually shine.

Although, they both have quite low fittings :(

Originally by: Gypsio III
I mean, it makes absolutely no sense to take the fastest, most agile (ish) BS, and then be forced to gimp its greatest strength by whacking plates and armour rigs on it. It's nonsense. There's precious little diversity in BS at the moment, and adding another armour-tanked turret BS to the multitude of armour-tanked turret BS is stupid. Make it a 6-6 shield tank, and for God's sake fix the insane CPU requirements of Shield Transporters. Get away from this tedious armour-tanking turret BS monotony and inject some diversity and life into BS. Same goes for the Tempest itself.



Excellent points from Gypsio. I too would rather see the tempest be shield tanked, by that, I mean, 6/6 and with equal shields armor so you can shield OR amor tank as desired.

We already have tons of armor/turret BS in the game. Dominix, megathron, hyperion, armageddon, abbaddon, apocalypse - Typhoon too, kinda.

I want to see viable caldari/minmatar RR shield gangs, the way we have viable amarr/gallente RR armor gangs. Part of that is making more minmatar ships do shield, and the other part is, as Gypsio said, reducing the CPU use of shield transporters.

One problem with shield 'tanking' ships is that six mids is not a lot when you really need to fit a couple tackle mods. Maybe all shield tanking BS should have 7 mids?

Ravenja
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.10.19 19:38:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Reten Kip
MAY not like the new skins? 90% of the responses to those skins say they're JUNK.
...
Do you guys not understand that the camo skin is horrid? Whatever artist thought it looked good doesn't deserve the title and should be demoted.

You've been given many suggestions that DON'T SUCK.

A perfect example of CCP not giving a damn. And it would be so simple to fix, it doesn't have to be balanced, doesn't affect game mechanics, etc... Pure stubbornness or broken feedback loop.

Thuranni
Eldjotnar
Posted - 2009.10.19 19:50:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: skye orionis
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
Navy skins should not be camo. There is no space jungle for them to hide in, and especially seeing how navy ships are very RP based, they should stick to RP. Unless you want to introduce space jungles.


Read this - an RP explanation for camo on fancy military ships.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1195675


This is a really terrible explanation, stop spamming it. It doesn't even remotely make sense.

The likeliest in-universe explanation is that it doesn't bloody matter whatever colour your ships are, as all detection is done via scanners, not visual contact, so some beurocrat in some design committee for the Navy thought that having the ships painted in camo would be pretty cool and awe-inspiring.

See also; Golden Amarr hulls, tech 2 ships having corporate-specific paintjobs in the corporate colours.

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.10.19 20:04:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Edited by: Abrazzar on 19/10/2009 17:04:08
Well, on the navy salad camo, I made a proposition adding to the others:

Navy ships in brushed steel, coal and cobalt lights:

Dominix
Vexor




i think they look good

the blue makes them really stand out

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.10.19 20:29:00 - [56]
 

I really like the new Mach, and the Bhaalgorn is just amazing. I own one of each, waiting for the patch to hit so I can fly them with their new stats.

It looks like I'll be buying a Rattlesnake as well, looks really impressive with Neuts and a passive shield tank. If remote shield reps ever get sorted out, it will be a beast for sure.

The Vindicator? It can't do any more peak gun DPS than the Kronos or Hyperiorn. Once you consider the rep bonuses of both those ships, and the numerous advantages of the Kronos over the Vindi, there is really little reason to choose the Vindi over either the Hype or the Kronos.

All of the reasons you list as an advantage for the Vindicator: speed, agility, sensor strength- none of those are worth anything. Your guns will miss 100% of the time if you're moving even the smallest amount, so speed and agility don't count for anything. Sensor strength? You'll still be jammed solid by a Falcon even if you have two ECCM fit, so what is the point in calling slightly higher sensor strength an advantage?

I don't even know why I bother posting however. Nothing will be changed.

I also agree with Pattern with respect to his issues with the Fleet Tempest. Easily the worst of the Navy ships.

The Typhoon changes, both fleet and regular, are great. There are plenty of things I *like* about the patch. The Navy Megathron paintjob isn't one of them however. When are you guys going to sack up and simply ignore your old outdated canon of art direction and revamp the look and feel of Eve with something more contemporary and impressive?

Ragel Tropxe
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.19 20:30:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Ragel Tropxe on 19/10/2009 20:33:14
just thinking about how this proposal affects the Tempest line of ships

1. T1 Tempest = shield or armour tank
2. T2 Tempest (Vargur) = shield tank
3. Faction Tempest = armour tank

seriously - come on CCP, how can you even propose this? You genuinely have no idea what to do with this ship or Minmatar BS do you?

p.s If youre expecting us to consider Nozh's thoughts about projectiles when thinjing about the Tempest - how about he responds to the many pages or questions / concerns in his thread??




Cornette
Gallente
Solar Revenue Service
TAXU
Posted - 2009.10.19 20:41:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Ravenja
Originally by: Reten Kip
MAY not like the new skins? 90% of the responses to those skins say they're JUNK.
...
Do you guys not understand that the camo skin is horrid? Whatever artist thought it looked good doesn't deserve the title and should be demoted.

You've been given many suggestions that DON'T SUCK.

A perfect example of CCP not giving a damn. And it would be so simple to fix, it doesn't have to be balanced, doesn't affect game mechanics, etc... Pure stubbornness or broken feedback loop.




Sucks boatloads really but I'm not surprised in the slightest that they ignoring us. Its CCP thinking with their wallet firsthand. They got a load of unsold salad issue mega models so forcing us to suck it down is easier then scrap the models.

My most beautiful ship will now be a space forest. Woopidoo Mad


And the fleet tempest will still suck after the change. Just only a bit less. If what Nozh done so far is it then don't expect artillery to be any better for the next 4 years...

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2009.10.19 20:47:00 - [59]
 

good but the Ammatar, Khanid, SoE and Mordus are still missing their faction ships.



SoE astrometric ships would be awesome.

Jacob Mei
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.19 20:54:00 - [60]
 

Quote:
Q: Why having camouflage skins on navy battleships?
A: The black and white skin you were used to on the Megathron Navy Issue has never been the proper Gallente Navy version paintjob and this is why it was changed. As some of you guessed, the correct one was already used on the EVE store Megathron Navy miniature. We are deeply sorry you may not like the new skins, however this unfortunately remains a matter of taste. But if you ask me, my preference would be that dreadnoughts in siege mode should transform into huge space robots with vacuum cleaners.


***damnit I knew it, if a change doesnt make sence see if money or politics is involved.

Answer me this: How the hell does forest camo color (poorly done I might add) make any sence what so ever when the background of space is *GASP* BLACK!


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