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Atlast Gotya
Posted - 2009.10.19 10:28:00 - [1]
 

seriously, what the hell is up with all the unstable wormholes? I can't find one single radar site, and I've been looking since 0000 EVE time. Current time is 1021 (EVE time) I've gone to I don't know how many systems, and I can't find one single radar site, but I find craploads of Wormholes. Have they removed Radar sites from high sec? If not, does anyone know the ratio of Radar sites to other sites?

I like the probes being able to warp now, but I liked the old site specific probes better. you waste so much time trying to find out the 'type' of sig that when/if you were to find a radar site you'd be better off mining or doing level 4's and buying the stuff from the market.

I can not remember the last time I found a radar site tbh, I know I used to run into them all the time in Red Moon Rising and Revelations, I found plenty in Cold War, but just about the time Trinity came out I found it increasingly hard if not impossible to find radar sites.

So I guess my question really is: Are there still radar sites in high sec? and: If yes, what is the ratio of Radar sites to other sites?

The most frequent thing I scan down with the new 'Core' probes are wormholes. and often all I find are wormholes.

Anyone know the answer to my question? I hope so...

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2009.10.19 10:56:00 - [2]
 

They are still there. However from what I have experienced, they are not as common as WHs or Mag/Grav sites.


Anu Koir
Posted - 2009.10.19 10:58:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Anu Koir on 19/10/2009 10:58:36
Atlast, I do not think anyone knows the ratio. I don't even think there is a set ratio for these things.

Allan Cassius
Posted - 2009.10.19 11:22:00 - [4]
 

The same thing in lowsec today, not a single radar OR mag site in more than 15 systems in Placid...

Allan Cassius
Posted - 2009.10.19 11:29:00 - [5]
 

And yes, tons of wormholes, 1-4 per system.

Anu Koir
Posted - 2009.10.19 11:33:00 - [6]
 

Atlast, I actually just got done filing a petition asking for more radar sites to be let into high sec/in general.

I'll let you know what results I get when/if I get them.

Kaya Divine
Gallente
Kittens Factory
Posted - 2009.10.19 12:02:00 - [7]
 

I`m also sick of wormholes, it would be really nice to be able to filter them out.

But in high sec all signatures no matter is it small omber (mining) or serpentis vigil are farmed. Just to show you in which extent this is true:
local with 5 people (including me) I`m location mag signature, got 3 mag sites and a WH, when I warped on first mag site one dude was there.
In system with about 10 people, also got mag site, 3 of them was there...+ me.

So its only competition which kills profit for exploration in high sec, and you didn't got any unknowns except WHs because someone else cleaned them.

Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar
Pragmatics
Posted - 2009.10.19 12:22:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Kaya Divine
So its only competition which kills profit for exploration in high sec, and you didn't got any unknowns except WHs because someone else cleaned them.


This.

Radar, Mag & combat sites despawn when they're done. Wormholes stay until they collapse. There are a lot of people exploring these days, and this means there's a constant pressure on the despawning sites, which means they tend to end up in unexplored backwaters. Wormholes don't face this pressure, so when you're exploring where someone else has already been you tend to see wormholes more than anything else. Gravimetric sites are a little different, because they take a while to mine out.

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2009.10.19 12:29:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Emily Spankratchet

This.

Radar, Mag & combat sites despawn when they're done. Wormholes stay until they collapse. There are a lot of people exploring these days, and this means there's a constant pressure on the despawning sites, which means they tend to end up in unexplored backwaters. Wormholes don't face this pressure, so when you're exploring where someone else has already been you tend to see wormholes more than anything else. Gravimetric sites are a little different, because they take a while to mine out.


And we have a winner!

This should be stickied honestly. Or something. So many people don't understand the mechanics of it all and the fact that high sec = safe = competition and would just rather believe that the game/CCP hates them.

Well put dude.

Canute Minealot
Posted - 2009.10.19 13:35:00 - [10]
 

And for a 0.0 explorer the situation is reversed.
Everyone is doing the Combat sites and ignore mosttimes the Radar/Magneto sites.
Once if found over 10 Radar/Magentos in a quiete Deadend Sidearm (5 System).

In Highsec everyone is after these Radarsites because they are more profitable then Combatsites, so the lifetime of these sites are very short.

K'uata Sayus
Posted - 2009.10.19 14:19:00 - [11]
 

CCP went to great lengths to change the exploration mechanics, and the response has been a huge increase in the number of players exploring. I'd like to see a sales comparison of exploration and covops frigs from a year ago to today.

Does demand for exploration sites outstrip the supply? Most assuredly. Seems the intent was to wean players of mission-running and give exploration a boost, but what's the point if the scarcity of sites means there's no Isk in it?

Maybe a lot of newer explorers will go start playing cowboys and native Americans in Dust 514, and relieve the pressure on exploration sites. One can only hope.....

Nareg Maxence
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.19 14:56:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Nareg Maxence on 19/10/2009 14:59:13
Originally by: Anu Koir
Atlast, I actually just got done filing a petition asking for more radar sites to be let into high sec/in general.

I'll let you know what results I get when/if I get them.

This is not what petitions are for! You are clogging up the petition queue with useless crap!

Quote:
Does demand for exploration sites outstrip the supply? Most assuredly. Seems the intent was to wean players of mission-running and give exploration a boost, but what's the point if the scarcity of sites means there's no Isk in it?


NO! Sites despawn when they are done and respawn somewhere else. They are thus an unlimited resource. This has been explained by devs.

Watcha Need
Viaticus Consortium
Posted - 2009.10.20 02:17:00 - [13]
 

In the past two weeks I have maybe found one or two radar sites. The problem is that they hardly have anything worth finding. I have been exploring for over two months now and have yet to find a data interface bpc in a radar site. Maybe the only good radar sites are found in 0.0 space.

Francis Mule
Posted - 2009.10.20 06:40:00 - [14]
 

Just to echo the sentiments, it is because you are probably scanning in densely populated areas. I felt the same way about high sec DED sites... until I started scanning down empty and mostly empty high sec systems. I find usually one DED sites a system. My best is four in one system. They were all 3/10s, I used an AF and rushed the end. I made roughly 150m isk in drops for about 45 minutes worth of work. I think the problem is most explorers don't actually plan on having to explore, instead choosing to scan sites around their "home."


Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.20 07:58:00 - [15]
 

I regularly find Radar sites... in low sec.

/move along.

dentonite
Amarr
Schrodinger's Renegades
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2009.10.20 08:17:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
I regularly find Radar sites... in low sec.


Likewise.

K'uata Sayus
Posted - 2009.10.20 13:55:00 - [17]
 

Quote:
Does demand for exploration sites outstrip the supply? Most assuredly. Seems the intent was to wean players of mission-running and give exploration a boost, but what's the point if the scarcity of sites means there's no Isk in it?


NO! Sites despawn when they are done and respawn somewhere else. They are thus an unlimited resource. This has been explained by devs.


Quote: In the past two weeks I have maybe found one or two radar sites. The problem is that they hardly have anything worth finding. I have been exploring for over two months now and have yet to find a data interface bpc in a radar site. Maybe the only good radar sites are found in 0.0 space. Unquote

^^^^^

If sites are an unlimited resource, how do you explain this? Whatever the mechanic is and whatever the Devs have explained, it is still obvious there are not enough sites for the large influx of explorers, period.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.10.20 14:07:00 - [18]
 

There are plenty of sites. Get out of hisec; there are lowsec systems with 5+ non-wormhole sites.

Boltorano
Fourth Circle
Total Comfort
Posted - 2009.10.20 14:34:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: K'uata Sayus

If sites are an unlimited resource, how do you explain this? Whatever the mechanic is and whatever the Devs have explained, it is still obvious there are not enough sites for the large influx of explorers, period.



As has been stated, the continual despawning by players forces up the concentration of sites in backwater unexplored systems. Anecdotal sign of this - I once found two 4/10 in adjacent 0.5 systems. The catch? They were in the middle of Aridia surrounded by huge swathes of lowsec.

Swearte Widfarend
Gallente
Aurora Security
Posted - 2009.10.20 15:57:00 - [20]
 

Ok, I'm giving up my secret now Shocked

Go to http://evemaps.dotlan.net/
Select the Region you wish to work in
Choose the option: Jumps (24hr)
Examine the region. Find systems with fewest jumps.
Go there and explore. You will likely find many, many spawns compared to busier systems.
Don't be surprised if they are also losec.
You can do "safe" exploration in losec - but you must be on directional scanner and ready to get out if you see combat probes in range to pin your location.
I would always hop into a quiet losec system if the HiSec systems were farmed, when I did empire exploration...

Kva Plexcha
Gallente
Doing You Right
Posted - 2009.10.20 21:38:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Francis Mule
Just to echo the sentiments, it is because you are probably scanning in densely populated areas. I felt the same way about high sec DED sites... until I started scanning down empty and mostly empty high sec systems. I find usually one DED sites a system. My best is four in one system. They were all 3/10s, I used an AF and rushed the end. I made roughly 150m isk in drops for about 45 minutes worth of work. I think the problem is most explorers don't actually plan on having to explore, instead choosing to scan sites around their "home."




Umm not all "Combat sites" are DED sites. I think you may be confused there.


The normal ratio I have come across consistently is one DED site per Constellation roughly and in Lowsec it seems to be one or 2 at the most per Region. (Not counting the Drone DED plex which seems to be 2 or 3 in every lowsec region)

Jaliri Naskad
The Thorn Foundation
Posted - 2009.10.21 01:50:00 - [22]
 

The really frustrating part is after scanning through 10 of those quiet little low-sec systems and finally finding a RADAR site, not being able to get a scan percentage better than the mid-eighties. Evil or Very Mad

Boltorano
Fourth Circle
Total Comfort
Posted - 2009.10.21 02:11:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Jaliri Naskad
The really frustrating part is after scanning through 10 of those quiet little low-sec systems and finally finding a RADAR site, not being able to get a scan percentage better than the mid-eighties. Evil or Very Mad


I suspect these are bugged. After spending some months in w-space I tried finding some RADAR sites in lowsec, and some of them seem much much harder than anything you'll find in the deepest darkest corner of a Unknown system. Our daily exit wormhole almost always needs you to get down to 0.25AU to get 100% but these lowsec RADAR are still an order of magnitude harder to find.

Francis Mule
Posted - 2009.10.21 05:32:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Kva Plexcha
Originally by: Francis Mule
Just to echo the sentiments, it is because you are probably scanning in densely populated areas. I felt the same way about high sec DED sites... until I started scanning down empty and mostly empty high sec systems. I find usually one DED sites a system. My best is four in one system. They were all 3/10s, I used an AF and rushed the end. I made roughly 150m isk in drops for about 45 minutes worth of work. I think the problem is most explorers don't actually plan on having to explore, instead choosing to scan sites around their "home."




Umm not all "Combat sites" are DED sites. I think you may be confused there.


The normal ratio I have come across consistently is one DED site per Constellation roughly and in Lowsec it seems to be one or 2 at the most per Region. (Not counting the Drone DED plex which seems to be 2 or 3 in every lowsec region)


I know. And I stand by it. It is probably a fluke, but fly down to Amarr space and scan down the empty systems (there are plenty). The time I was talking about I got 3 Mul - Zatah Monestaries and one drone site. In the same system there were 3 blood dens or something like that (I usually run these using only my overview while scanning down the other sites) and something called... Toxic dump... or something like that (I didn't get to run that one. RL got in the way).

I lived around Dodixie for awhile and before that Rens and I saw almost no combat sites. They are too populated and people aren't willing to make a decent number of jumps. Since moving to Amarr I find tons.

Oh... and hopefully to get Amarr some love, I'll also add that the market is wide open and easy to exploit (maybe not Amarr's main region but surounding ones). Since I've turned to flying through low sec looking for a fight, I am hoping this brings some folks down toward Amarr :) But I digress.

The point, go exploring if you want to make isk at exploring.

Kva Plexcha
Gallente
Doing You Right
Posted - 2009.10.21 08:23:00 - [25]
 

Thanks for clarifying that - that is really lucky, Francis. I felt lucky when I found 2 Military Complexes in one system a few times - but multiple DED's is awesome. Cool

Janie Suspect
Posted - 2009.10.21 12:20:00 - [26]
 

I've had really good luck in Caldari space. The other night I hit on 5 sites in one system.

Ulstan
Posted - 2009.10.21 16:22:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
Originally by: Kaya Divine
So its only competition which kills profit for exploration in high sec, and you didn't got any unknowns except WHs because someone else cleaned them.


This.

Radar, Mag & combat sites despawn when they're done. Wormholes stay until they collapse. There are a lot of people exploring these days, and this means there's a constant pressure on the despawning sites, which means they tend to end up in unexplored backwaters. Wormholes don't face this pressure, so when you're exploring where someone else has already been you tend to see wormholes more than anything else. Gravimetric sites are a little different, because they take a while to mine out.


But they are supposed to respawn as soon as they despawn. The number of sites out there in the world is supposed to be constant.

Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Global Economy Experts
Posted - 2009.10.21 16:42:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Ulstan
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
Originally by: Kaya Divine
So its only competition which kills profit for exploration in high sec, and you didn't got any unknowns except WHs because someone else cleaned them.


This.

Radar, Mag & combat sites despawn when they're done. Wormholes stay until they collapse. There are a lot of people exploring these days, and this means there's a constant pressure on the despawning sites, which means they tend to end up in unexplored backwaters. Wormholes don't face this pressure, so when you're exploring where someone else has already been you tend to see wormholes more than anything else. Gravimetric sites are a little different, because they take a while to mine out.


But they are supposed to respawn as soon as they despawn. The number of sites out there in the world is supposed to be constant.


You didn't seem to read. I highlighted the part that answers you concern above.

K'uata Sayus
Posted - 2009.10.21 17:14:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Boltorano
Originally by: K'uata Sayus

If sites are an unlimited resource, how do you explain this? Whatever the mechanic is and whatever the Devs have explained, it is still obvious there are not enough sites for the large influx of explorers, period.



As has been stated, the continual despawning by players forces up the concentration of sites in backwater unexplored systems. Anecdotal sign of this - I once found two 4/10 in adjacent 0.5 systems. The catch? They were in the middle of Aridia surrounded by huge swathes of lowsec.


Let me see if I can't put this differently. 5 sites exist in an area of 10 systems.
10 explorers searching for them. 5 explorers get lucky, and enter into the sites. 5 explorers are left with nothing for the moment.

In another area there are 25 explorers, 5 get lucky, 20 are left with nothing for the moment.

The five sites respawn, 5 more explorers get lucky, and now of the first group of 10, each has "found " a site. Of the group of 25 explorers, 15 still have not found a site.

An increased number of explorers means fewer sites for each to find. And as the sites respawn in more and more obscure systems, the degree of frustration for explorers rises.

Exploration was skewed toward Lo-sec anyway, and the game mechanic (citing your anecdote) makes it even more so.

All things being equal, the number of sites available should increase as the number of explorers increases. I don't know how this can be measured.

With agents there are an infinite number of missions, and number of missions = number of players requesting them. Not so with exploration sites, where the number of sites are finite, as far as I know. The respawning mechanic can be easily overwhelmed, especially if the game mechanic forces more and more sites to locate in obscure systems.







Kva Plexcha
Gallente
Doing You Right
Posted - 2009.10.21 19:33:00 - [30]
 

Wow. The fundemantal difference between exploration and missioning should not be changed.

Missions are available to all who wish to "grind" their isk, on demand. Exploration is chance based, first come first served. You can certainly grind exploration plexes, as I definetly do, but the chance drop at the end, the either no-drop or jackpot, makes it much more interesting. Increasing the number of exploration sites to match a variable number of explorer is a terrible idea.

Missions are granted to whoever wants them. Ore, NPC's, Exploration plexes, all these are fairly static in occurence and respawn/ availabilty. As such these create a reasonably stable supply and demand marketplace based on the items produced. If these expand dynamically like missions the value of all these items drop drastically as oversupply increases dramatically. Should there be more belts added in hisec because miners can currently clean them out?, More rats in spawns? - if this was to occur then there would be no reason to have to seek minerals and loot out in lowsec and null.

EVE is designed specifically as a risk vs reward, and thru mechanics encourage those who want to, to weigh the " If I go to low/null I can make so much more, but I could die" dilema. Those that dont want the risk, hi sec mission or mine for their isk. End of story.

If you cant find your radar site in Jita, you may actually have to look in Perimeter. I know this might be a hardship, but it doesn't need merit a change in the game mechanics.

I have explored almost exclusively in low sec and null sec for the past 8 months. I'm a carebear, and I fly expensive ships. Even with all the risks and rewards, I still make way more isk than I lose, and I'm having a blast. I rarely lose ships to players, unless I have fallen asleep somewhere, this is actually my most expensive event that sadly occurs to me quite a bit as I usually play quite late. Just live a little and look in lowsec - you will be surprised at how many sites you actually find.


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