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Zsorn
Posted - 2009.10.17 13:29:00 - [1]
 

Thanks for taking the time to view my post.

Currently I am training to fly a drake. Personnally I am comfortable in this ship and starting to learn a bit about pvp with it. Eventually I will be a HAM drake but until I am comforatable with the ship I am running heavys. Passive shielding will be the route of course. My question is as a PVP ship what are the drakes glaring weaknesses that I need to be aware of. What ships should I be warry of when engaging outside of a gang. Any drake piloting pvp tips would be appreciated.

captain skinback
Posted - 2009.10.17 13:35:00 - [2]
 

there are a few weaknesses with the drake when it comes to pvp. its sig radius is huge so battleships will easily be able to put allot of their dps onto it. try fitting an afterburner on it.
even with the ab is going to be slow theres not much you can really do about this.
also hams dont do well against frigs.

Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.10.17 13:55:00 - [3]
 

The afterburner works, but it's not hard to fit a MWD.
The MicroWarpDrive won't allow you to reduce the damage you take, but it's extremely useful to get in range, chase targets, move around the battlefield, survive gate campe and so on.

Standard pvp drake:

5 HAMs

1 MWD
2 Invuln fields
1 Large Shield Extender
1 Warp disruptor
1 Stasis Webifier

1 Damage Control
Either 3 Ballistic Controls or 2 Ballistic Controls and one Power Diagnotic

Rigs: Anti-EM, Core Def. Shield Extender and an Anciliary Current Router if needed or another CDSE

It's one of the best BCs, it tanks well, the damage is awesome, you can even solo in it.

Weaknesses are the sig radius and the align time.
The sig radius is big, but you're not likely to get shot at until the fight is lost.
Who primaries drakes?

The main problem is the align time and mobility in general.
That's why I think you should fit a MWD.
Learn to fight aligned to a celestial and how to survive gatecamps with a MWD.

Have fun!

GavinGoodrich
Posted - 2009.10.17 15:06:00 - [4]
 

Some of the strengths: 1. Omni-range makes it easy to use in PVP. No transversal, no falloff, etc. Great starter ship while you learn other mechanics to PVP.

2. It's tank bonus means it rarely gets primaried vs. other BC's/BS's with you in fleet. FC's know this, and will only primary you if other ships are out of the question at the time (too far, etc).

3. With that being said, drakes fit with lots of ewar in the mids and no tank mods are very very useful in larger fleets, as again, it'll be one of the last on the list to get primaried.

4. Able to use any damage type (often overlooked in pvp, vs. being stuck on 1-2 damage types for gunners.

5. Decent range for a BC. Don't need to sacrifice DPS for having a longer range ammo.

6. Target painters can help make up the sig. radius difference shooting cruisers and such.

Some weaknesses:

Drakes, and missile boats in general, are NOT snipers. Also if the target is moving fast enough (inties, nano'd vagas, etc) they can often outrun your missiles entirely. Unless you are right there in thier face, or are using HAMs, your damage will not be instantaneous. In big fleets, your primary will often die before your missiles even land, if you shoot at long range.

2. If you tank it with CDE's, LSE's, you will be very easy to lock and get full damage on. This is negated in part by the tank bonus, but it also makes it very easy to get picked off while your fleet is running a gatecamp (one of the easiest to lock).

3. Armor tanking it amongst a fleet of armor tanked BC's and BS's will cut out just about all your damage bonus mods.

4. One-shot drone bay. No spare drones if you have to leave your flight out and warp away before you die.

5. There is no one-shotting smaller ships like inties, even if your missiles land. The sig radius is the main weakness of the missile, as at least 1/2 of the damage done relies on sig radius vs. missile explosion radius. And that's not even taking speed into account.

There's probably other stuff too I haven't thought about.Very Happy

Cromwell Savage
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2009.10.17 16:18:00 - [5]
 

I personally love the Drake as a fleet BC, though I avoid HAM's all together.

Since it's not the fastest ship out there nor the fastest locking, I fit mine to be a reliable DPS platform that won't easily pop. Afterall, who cares how many points/web/scrams/etc.. you have if you don't last long enough to make good use of them. IMHO, the Drake is there to take a beating and still dole out DPS so others can do their thing. As such and as others have pointed out, the Drake is usually not the primary for it would take too long to pop and therefore start to lower an enemy fleet's combined DPS. Though, depending on the makeup of said enemy fleet, Drakes are not always a "safe bet" either for experienced players know that once a Drake loses its shields - POP! For fun, I had an AML Drake for a while. Sure was nice to see those frigs try to flee once they realized I wasn't some fat, slow HML slug for them to zoom around freely Twisted Evil.

W0wbagger
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2009.10.17 17:51:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Don Pellegrino


Standard pvp drake:

5 HAMs



um...

The Tzar
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.10.17 18:45:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: W0wbagger
Originally by: Don Pellegrino


Standard pvp drake:

5 HAMs



um...


And use the spare launchers slots for a salvager and a tractor of course!

Stratio
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Damu'Khonde
Posted - 2009.10.19 17:11:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Don Pellegrino
1 Stasis Webifier

Wouldn't a target painter be better?

Sir Fourhead
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.10.19 17:20:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: GavinGoodrich
3. Armor tanking it amongst a fleet of armor tanked BC's and BS's will cut out just about all your damage bonus mods.


wait, what

Lars Lodar
The Python Cartel.
The Jerk Cartel
Posted - 2009.10.20 12:43:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Stratio
Originally by: Don Pellegrino
1 Stasis Webifier

Wouldn't a target painter be better?


Not generally. Sure it helps against frigs but if you're concearned about dying to one in a drake you have larger problems. A flight of Warrior IIs and Javelin HAMs are perfectly fine. Webs are great for more gang support.

Stratio
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Damu'Khonde
Posted - 2009.10.20 14:51:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Stratio on 20/10/2009 14:53:09


Was thinking more of HACs, but looking at the numbers: Shield extended Vagabond's sig radius will be larger than the HAM's expl. radius.

So I concede - web is right afterall. Very Happy

Proxyyyy
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.10.20 15:57:00 - [12]
 

Well Zsorn the drake may be over hyped.

Im of the opinion that bar fleet engagments in solo sits the mrym is the best overall bc in game. its ability to duel rep is such that it can active tank the drakes damage infact it can engage multiple bc's and possible win from what i have seen mind you i have not been in such an engagment in one.
But i have with brutix also to a limited extent drake/ferox both in complicated engagments. But the drake cant engage multiple bc's the way the mrym can this is where the mryms active tank with a little heat shines.

With rigs the mrym can tank any battleship for as long as you have cap boosters and it does over 600dps easy with blasters it can engage all ship classes. but drone pvp its lame tbh and good pilots will kill drones and at that point you will start failing but there arernt to many good pilots so no real big deal.

Most drakes i have seen fail was because they leave a damage control out which gets rid of alot of resist and ehp for a little bit more damage, but its weaknesses pvp wise is not much at all. Maybe cap but i fit a small nos on mine to keep my disruptor and web active otherwise its as perfect as a bc can get.

You should fear the myrm/harbinger mainly and any shield or duel repped bonused tanked bc's can be a problem depends realy, i know a brutix can tank jsut as much maybe alittle less than the mrym if you take off the one damage mod for a eanm never tried it though. A hurricane with trimarks and 1 active repper can also skool the drake none rigged drake = /

Im trying to think of more weaknesses but cant,so the best way to know is to go out and roam.

Drake
Damage Control II
Reactor Control Unit II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Assault Missile
Small Nosferatu II



Warrior II x5

61k/ehp 600/dps without rigs

Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.10.20 18:48:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: The Tzar
Originally by: W0wbagger
Originally by: Don Pellegrino


Standard pvp drake:

5 HAMs



um...


And use the spare launchers slots for a salvager and a tractor of course!


rofl, I was obviously meaning 7, I have no idea why I typed 5. Embarassed

Steve Celeste
Overdogs
Posted - 2009.10.21 09:23:00 - [14]
 

Drake obviously needs 4 x SPR in lowslots. Very Happy

Rock urSocksoff
Invaders Empire Wold
RED Citizens
Posted - 2009.10.21 11:50:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Don Pellegrino
Originally by: The Tzar
Originally by: W0wbagger
Originally by: Don Pellegrino


Standard pvp drake:

5 HAMs



um...


And use the spare launchers slots for a salvager and a tractor of course!


rofl, I was obviously meaning 7, I have no idea why I typed 5. Embarassed


No do-overs, sorry.

Lars Lodar
The Python Cartel.
The Jerk Cartel
Posted - 2009.10.21 12:09:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Lars Lodar on 21/10/2009 12:09:53
Originally by: Proxyyyy
Well Zsorn the drake may be over hyped.

And Stuff




All the Tier 2 BC are pretty much on par with each other. My fit is pretty similar but I feel it's a tad better. You really don't need the NOS to keep things running. Even with the MWD on I can run everything for over 3 minutes. My fit is intended for AWU 5 otherwise you have to use the RC II. With the PDS II you get more cap and shields which is pretty nice.

[Drake, HAM Buffer]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II

Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Salvager I /OFFLINE

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Warrior II x5


Any capable fleet should have a squad booster with at least leadership supports IV. That said overloading the Invulns can push your EHP to over 100k and DPS over 600 with Rage and almost 500 with Javs.

Kaimber Valkimbrian
Posted - 2009.10.26 11:29:00 - [17]
 

ok ive been playing this game for about 2 and a half months im minmatar but im switching to caldari because i prefer missle combat even though the dmg right now is kinda weak. anyways looking at the fittings why would you put a damage controll on a shield tank? the resistances is hull armour then shield, im sure you can find something better then a dmg controll to fill that spot specialy when you already got 2 invunrability screens

Darcon Kylote
Posted - 2009.10.26 13:20:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Kaimber Valkimbrian
ok ive been playing this game for about 2 and a half months im minmatar but im switching to caldari because i prefer missle combat even though the dmg right now is kinda weak. anyways looking at the fittings why would you put a damage controll on a shield tank? the resistances is hull armour then shield, im sure you can find something better then a dmg controll to fill that spot specialy when you already got 2 invunrability screens


It's hard to get that much of an EHP increase from any other single module. I've gotten out of enough fights in structure to appreciate the DC on nearly every ship I fly.

Sure Caldari ships don't have as much structure as Gallente, but it's still damn hard to beat it.

Smabs
Posted - 2009.10.26 13:21:00 - [19]
 

Not to mention the unstacked resists a damage control gives to the shields.

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2009.10.26 15:10:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Zsorn

what are the drakes glaring weaknesses that I need to be aware of.



The HAM drake's biggest weakness is maneuverability vs range because even if your missiles can hit then you still need to get within web / scram range to tackle anything so having a gangmate tackle for you will make a big difference.

Range is also a major issue when using bubbles because you won't be able to warp when in faction/rage HAM range and if you're going to use javelins then you'll do more DPS with heavies.

Heavy missiles are generally better for fleet work and HAMS for solo or small gang but if you start with the following fittings and deviate once you know what you're doing then you won't go far wrong:

HIGH - 7x launchers of choice
MID - MWD, tackle, large shield extender, other stuff to taste
LOW - 3x BCU and a damage control
RIGS - 3x field extenders

If you haven't got the fitting skills for a large shield extender then consider dropping one of the rigs for an ancillary current router.

Originally by: Zsorn

What ships should I be warry of when engaging outside of a gang. Any drake piloting pvp tips would be appreciated.



For a low SP pilot it's important to check the age of any opponent in a battlecruiser because the drake relies heavily on tank n gank in that situation, so a high SP battlecruiser will likely kill you 1 vs 1.

Cruisers and HACs are a good choice but you'll probably want to drop some tank in favour of a sensor booster and/or dual webs as they can be slippery buggers. Use faction ammo against cruiser size targets because the explosion radius/velocity of rage/fury missiles is poor.

Small cruiser/frig gangs that have ECM support will nearly always engage a solo drake and will kill you easily if you don't have ECCM so it's worth having a mid slot ECCM and sensor backup array in the hold as a way of going from hunted to hunter.

Or you can pop haulers at stargates Razz

Otherwise watch out for bait ships, use dotlan (set your in game browser's homepage to this if you pvp a lot) and make sure you're hot with the d scanner.

Originally by: Kaimber Valkimbrian

missle combat....the dmg right now is kinda weak

why would you put a damage controll on a shield tank?



tl:dr - missile damage is only poor if you fit no damage mods - a drake with 3x damage mods, mwd and tackle hasn't got enough regen to passive tank so fits for buffer instead and a damage control gives lots of buffer.

The recharge of a passive tank increases exponentially with then number of modules used so is very low slot hungry, hence you have no space for damage mods.

EG on my pve drake the 1st SPR increases sustained defense by 121 hp/s but the 4th SPR increases sustained defense by 213 hp/s.

To fit a MWD and warp disruptor I have to remove 2 mid slot tanking items which reduces my tank by nearly 300 hp/s, if i want to do any kind of damage at all to my pvp opponent then i need to swap out SPR's for damage mods and suddenly my once awesome 888 hp/s passive tank can't even tank the damage from a T1 cruiser.

So to avoid having missile damage that's 'kinda weak' you need to rip out those SPR's and get ballistic controls into your lows which leaves you with very little regen on your tank so you fit for buffer instead.

A damage control will add roughly 15,000 EHP and the fact that it comes from armour and structure isn't relevant because your shield isn't giving enough regen to matter.

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2009.10.26 15:22:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: yani dumyat on 26/10/2009 23:33:40
EIDT: Maths fail on my part - ignore this post.


Originally by: Smabs
Not to mention the unstacked resists a damage control gives to the shields.


Can someone please tell me where this rubbish came from as i've seen it repeated a number of times yet it's clearly untrue:

Drake with no modules on has an EM resist of 25%.
DC II gives a 12.5% resistance boost.
25 + 12.5 = 37.5% yet a drake with a DC II fitted has an EM resist of 34.4% - ie it is stacking nerfed.

The only place where the stacking nerf does not come in to play is with the structural resists and this is only because the base resist is 0%.

Smabs
Posted - 2009.10.26 16:14:00 - [22]
 

Oh, well, there you go. I thought it wasn't stacked, my bad.

In any case it still adds a heap of HP and I can't think of a different module that really provides a greater benefit.

Raukorya
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.10.26 16:59:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: yani dumyat
Originally by: Smabs
Not to mention the unstacked resists a damage control gives to the shields.


Can someone please tell me where this rubbish came from as i've seen it repeated a number of times yet it's clearly untrue:

Drake with no modules on has an EM resist of 25%.
DC II gives a 12.5% resistance boost.
25 + 12.5 = 37.5% yet a drake with a DC II fitted has an EM resist of 34.4% - ie it is stacking nerfed.

The only place where the stacking nerf does not come in to play is with the structural resists and this is only because the base resist is 0%.



12.5 * (1 - .25) = 9.375 + 25 = 34.375

That's not a stacking penalty... you're just not doing the math correctly. If you had a base resist of 0% on shields and put on a DCII, you would see 12.5%. But since you already have 25%, you don't get the full effect. The 12.5% is applied to the un-resisted portion, the 75%, so you only get 75% of the 12.5%.

Probably could have been more clear in the explanation. Oh well

Zyress
Posted - 2009.10.26 17:36:00 - [24]
 

The Drake shares the weaknesses of most Caldari ships when it comes to pvp. The massive passive shield tank that makes pve easy mode, pretty much kills any EW plans you may have. As mentioned previously, they are extremely slow, its pretty pointless to even mount a propulsion mod, you aren't going to run away from anyone and if they run, you aren't going to catch them. Then there is their main weapons system, Missiles. Nice in that you can select your damage type, don't have to worry about tracking or relative speeds, not so nice in that there is travel time from when you shoot till when/if they hit. Ships with a small signature radius, that can move quickly will be very difficult for you to damage. My suggestion, stick with the heavy launchers, pack on your big massive shield tank and stick close to fleet members that can hit an interceptor to get it off you when your shield finally fails.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.10.26 18:02:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Zyress
The Drake shares the weaknesses of most Caldari ships when it comes to pvp. The massive passive shield tank that makes pve easy mode, pretty much kills any EW plans you may have. As mentioned previously, they are extremely slow, its pretty pointless to even mount a propulsion mod, you aren't going to run away from anyone and if they run, you aren't going to catch them. Then there is their main weapons system, Missiles. Nice in that you can select your damage type, don't have to worry about tracking or relative speeds, not so nice in that there is travel time from when you shoot till when/if they hit. Ships with a small signature radius, that can move quickly will be very difficult for you to damage. My suggestion, stick with the heavy launchers, pack on your big massive shield tank and stick close to fleet members that can hit an interceptor to get it off you when your shield finally fails.


Quoting failure.

Ron Santo
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.10.26 22:58:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Ron Santo on 26/10/2009 22:58:52
Originally by: Zyress
The Drake shares the weaknesses of most Caldari ships when it comes to pvp. The massive passive shield tank that makes pve easy mode, pretty much kills any EW plans you may have. As mentioned previously, they are extremely slow, its pretty pointless to even mount a propulsion mod, you aren't going to run away from anyone and if they run, you aren't going to catch them. Then there is their main weapons system, Missiles. Nice in that you can select your damage type, don't have to worry about tracking or relative speeds, not so nice in that there is travel time from when you shoot till when/if they hit. Ships with a small signature radius, that can move quickly will be very difficult for you to damage. My suggestion, stick with the heavy launchers, pack on your big massive shield tank and stick close to fleet members that can hit an interceptor to get it off you when your shield finally fails.


Caldari is fail for pvp...check.
Missiles are fail for pvp...check.
Don't fit MWD/Propulsion mod...check.
Overlooking fact drake can hold 5 light T2 drones...check.

Welcome to fail, courtesy of Zyress.

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2009.10.26 23:31:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Raukorya


That's not a stacking penalty... you're just not doing the math correctly.




Thanks, I get it now. Maths fail on my part Embarassed

lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2009.10.27 03:39:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Zyress
The Drake shares the weaknesses of most Caldari ships when it comes to pvp. The massive passive shield tank that makes pve easy mode, pretty much kills any EW plans you may have. As mentioned previously, they are extremely slow, its pretty pointless to even mount a propulsion mod, you aren't going to run away from anyone and if they run, you aren't going to catch them. Then there is their main weapons system, Missiles. Nice in that you can select your damage type, don't have to worry about tracking or relative speeds, not so nice in that there is travel time from when you shoot till when/if they hit. Ships with a small signature radius, that can move quickly will be very difficult for you to damage. My suggestion, stick with the heavy launchers, pack on your big massive shield tank and stick close to fleet members that can hit an interceptor to get it off you when your shield finally fails.


Quoting fail for the 3rd time cos noobs make me wet in my pants Embarassed


 

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