open All Channels
seplocked Science and Industry
blankseplocked What does drive trit/mineral prices/GDP? super caps? BS? ammo?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

AmarrettoDiAmarr
Posted - 2009.10.17 05:56:00 - [1]
 

Is the economy, and thus demand for minerals, driven by the super caps, or are the smaller but more numerous BS or BC or frigates? For example, if there were 10% more capital losses due to the new sov sorting itself out - But because people were rallying around the flags, less pirating/PVP meant 10% fewer T1 cruiser/BC/BS got destroyed would that use more or less trit?

Despite an occasional loss, I assume mission runners are net producers of minerals in addition to miners. Even ratting is a net producer of minerals? So is it reasonable that if there are 0.0 dustups it will reduce minerals both due to the losses as well as keeping people for their "night jobs" earning ISK. Or is that not a significant factor?

I want to understand/enjoy the Dominion speculation, but realize I don't understand the economy.

MightyRhinox
Minmatar
Rhinox Heavy Industries
Twilight Military Industrial Complex Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.17 07:49:00 - [2]
 

A dread works out roughly to the same trit as 50 battleships (very very roughly)

These stats: ship destruction stats show us that around 200 dreads are destroyed/month and about 21,000 battle ships.

A 10% increase in dead dreads would equal another 20/month, equivalent to 1000 BS

A 10% reduction in BS destroyed would equal 2100 less battle ships destroyed, equivalent to 45 dreads.

With these (very very rough) estimates a 10% increase in caps destroyed and a 10% reduction in other ships destoyed would result in a net reduction of trit demand and thus price.

Again these are very rough numbers, but give a good approximation of what would happen.


Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.17 08:22:00 - [3]
 

Rats, if the ratter recover the loot and refine it, are produce more minerals than equivalent mission ships (approximately x2 the minerals) with a slightly bent for high ends in the mineral produced.

Then there are the haulers spawns with large quantity of tritanium.

The hard part is knowing what percentage of ratters and mission runners loot.

Currently the number of mission runner looting seem to be decreasing (salvage is worth less and people salvaging usually loot too), no idea about ratters.

Salvage value is less of an issue in 0.0 as all the belt rat produce the same kind of salvage, so you tend to have an over-abundance of some of it and a lack of the rest.

Probably the people looting and salvaging in 0.0 has stayed constant. With the dominion changes I suspect looting will increase in 0.0 as soon as the systems get rat spanws upgrades.

As mining will get upgrades too my opinion is that minerals will stay at the current low price. Thanks to the insurance scam they will not go lower.


ingenting
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2009.10.17 12:41:00 - [4]
 

how many of these threads are we gonna have each week?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.10.18 00:29:00 - [5]
 


Right now, battleship prices are driven by PLATINUM INSURANCE PAYOUTS (just look at the markets), all the killboards in the world won't help you see if there were dozens, hundreds or thousands of battleships bought (or manufactured) for the sole purpose of cashing the insurance money.
This in turn drives mineral prices, whereas capship prices are driven by a combined mineral prices and minimal extra profit margin from operating so many manufacture lines for so long.

Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.10.18 20:33:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Akita T

Right now, battleship prices are driven by PLATINUM INSURANCE PAYOUTS (just look at the markets), all the killboards in the world won't help you see if there were dozens, hundreds or thousands of battleships bought (or manufactured) for the sole purpose of cashing the insurance money.
This in turn drives mineral prices, whereas capship prices are driven by a combined mineral prices and minimal extra profit margin from operating so many manufacture lines for so long.



What would happen to the prices of T1 ships if insurance was removed?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.10.18 21:26:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Omarvelous
What would happen to the prices of T1 ships if insurance was removed?

Very big nosedive for all ship and mineral prices Twisted Evil

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.10.19 00:41:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Omarvelous
What would happen to the prices of T1 ships if insurance was removed?

Very big nosedive for all ship and mineral prices Twisted Evil



A Free market

freedom is good, lets do it!

Xetal Maelstrom
Posted - 2009.10.19 02:58:00 - [9]
 

Quote:

A Free market

freedom is good, lets do it!


I can't think of a single true free market in existence that works well.

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2009.10.19 03:19:00 - [10]
 





What would happen to the prices of T1 ships if insurance was removed?


Nothing good thats for sure.

Ten Bulls
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.19 03:57:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Xetal Maelstrom

I can't think of a single true free market in existence that works well.


Just becasue you cant think of one isnt to say there arent any...

Its actually freedom to compete that makes markets work well. Absolute freedom would allow cartels and monopolies to criple the market, like what happened to the hulk BPO prior to invention.

Octa Butler
Posted - 2009.10.19 05:56:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Omarvelous
What would happen to the prices of T1 ships if insurance was removed?

Very big nosedive for all ship and mineral prices Twisted Evil



That's not the complete truth. Sure you might see a drop on t1 ships prices and mineral prices initially, but ongoing, you'd see major inflation. And by ongoing, if BBs/BCs die as much as it seems, it'd be within a week or two.

What removing insurance really does is takes a small isk generator into a major isk sink. Creating such an isk sink likely would have ill effects, and quite likely would grind the entire eve economy to halt.

Xetal Maelstrom
Posted - 2009.10.19 08:14:00 - [13]
 

Quote:
Just becasue you cant think of one isnt to say there arent any...

Its actually freedom to compete that makes markets work well. Absolute freedom would allow cartels and monopolies to criple the market, like what happened to the hulk BPO prior to invention.


That was kind of the point I was making. Capitalism and Socialism are not absolutes, they are just two ends to the same spectrum... and if you get too far towards one or the other then it invariably leads to bad things.

Tanja Cyprus
Posted - 2009.10.19 08:30:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Xetal Maelstrom
Quote:
Just becasue you cant think of one isnt to say there arent any...

Its actually freedom to compete that makes markets work well. Absolute freedom would allow cartels and monopolies to criple the market, like what happened to the hulk BPO prior to invention.


That was kind of the point I was making. Capitalism and Socialism are not absolutes, they are just two ends to the same spectrum... and if you get too far towards one or the other then it invariably leads to bad things.


Free are many, but in order to be good they would above all have to be PERFECT markets, i.e. no preference of place, amount, 100% information availabilty to everyone etc. etc.
If that were the case, free markets would actually be pretty cool, but it's never the case. Just look at Coca Cola selling crap as drink....


Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.19 11:21:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Octa Butler
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Omarvelous
What would happen to the prices of T1 ships if insurance was removed?

Very big nosedive for all ship and mineral prices Twisted Evil



That's not the complete truth. Sure you might see a drop on t1 ships prices and mineral prices initially, but ongoing, you'd see major inflation. And by ongoing, if BBs/BCs die as much as it seems, it'd be within a week or two.

What removing insurance really does is takes a small isk generator into a major isk sink. Creating such an isk sink likely would have ill effects, and quite likely would grind the entire eve economy to halt.


You are confused about what a isk sink is.

A isk sink is something that remove isk from the game, not something that remove isk from your wallett.


So losing ship is in no way a isk sink, and insurance (as the isk it generate come from outside the game) is a isk faucet.

Removing insurance would remove a system that convert minerals to isk coming from outside the game.
That will reduce inflationary pressure.

So removing insurance would have a (generally) deflationary effect on minerals, not an inflationary one.

MightyRhinox
Minmatar
Rhinox Heavy Industries
Twilight Military Industrial Complex Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.19 13:12:00 - [16]
 

Oh god, I get sick of the *******s some of you wanna be economists come out with....

davet517
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.10.21 15:24:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: davet517 on 21/10/2009 15:25:39
The insurance "scam" isn't really a scam. Its there on purpose as a safety valve for the mineral markets. It's a "trit won't go below this" valve. As soon as trit does start going below that, people start blowing up battleships and a big materials drain opens in the economy.

Used to be, there was another safety valve, that was the price of shuttles, which were seeded by NPC corps at a fixed price. If trit ever climbed above a certain point, people would start melting shuttles and a materials faucet would open. That was removed a while back, and there was a trit price spike shortly thereafter.

Prices are always going to ebb and flow like this with player activity. In the recent past, big wars lead to big demand which lead to big production. Wars cool, demand slacks off, and production takes a while to slow down. If you don't like the way it is now, stick around, it'll change.

Beulah Henry
Posted - 2009.10.21 17:12:00 - [18]
 

WAR

Not skirmishes, not up risings, all out total war. The great war II is over, sadly. Like it or not if you are a miner or a manufacturer or any combination there of, you are a war profiteer.

Who loses ships in Eve?

Mission runners? yes, but that stops after a certain skill level is achieved. Once that skill level is met the missioner NEVER needs another Drake again for example. Ok, maybe never is harsh but extremely rarely will ever need another Drake.

Worm Holers? yes, but no more than your average 0.0 pilot in day to day life. Say 2 per month if they are trying to solo things they shouldn't or are worm holing where they really shouldn't be.

0.0 alliance members? yes, but not many ships with no wars going on. Sure you might get jumped or caught not paying attention to security channels.

Low Sec inhabitants? yes, but again this is pretty minor as noob and hauler ganks definately lead the way in those being killed.

Factional Warfarer? definately, but not even approaching the scale of an alliance war. You lose a ship, grab your replacement, loose it. Mission for awhile and rebuild your armoury.

What burns thru minerals? DoomsDays, Cap fights, and POS bashing. None of that is happening right now, at least not at any significant level.

Goons were trying to help the market out with Jihad Swarm, but it appears they lost interest in that.



 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only