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Darcia Engineris
Posted - 2009.10.24 19:55:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Iman Atheist
I wish people WHO HAVEN'T STARTED PLAYING EVE YET knew how much Caldari suck, so they would all pick, like, Amarr or Gallente when they start. That would return some fun to this game.



+1 but not cus of looks. just cus if they realised it was this hard to play caldari race they'd do somehting decent like minmiattar amaar or gallente.

Incindy Arie
Posted - 2009.10.24 20:08:00 - [122]
 

Agreed, Caldari are not the top chocie for PVP. IT would be nice to have some options on the table that made caldari a useful PVP component. EW is about all we have!

Check out my thread....I think this would give credit to ships like the Hawk and Harpy that are AWESOME tanks, but have no real role..Thanks!

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1202931

sincerely, incindy arie

Kalia Masaer
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Posted - 2009.10.26 03:23:00 - [123]
 

The main thing is they need to tweak missiles so they actually function reasonable against even unskilled ships of the intended scale. As it is most missiles lack even enough explosion velocity to come close to doing full damage at the unksilled speed of the slowest hull for their intended target size. Seems a little off to me and I am not a big missile person.

Second the sig radius on all caldari BS's ridiculous and then you add sig penalties for extenders and shield rigs and it gets stupid, they just become huge sluggish targets.

Azran Zala
Fleet of the Damned
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2009.10.26 09:52:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: Azran Zala on 26/10/2009 11:15:23


Originally by: Kalia Masaer
The main thing is they need to tweak missiles so they actually function reasonable against even unskilled ships of the intended scale. As it is most missiles lack even enough explosion velocity to come close to doing full damage at the unksilled speed of the slowest hull for their intended target size. Seems a little off to me and I am not a big missile person.

Second the sig radius on all caldari BS's ridiculous and then you add sig penalties for extenders and shield rigs and it gets stupid, they just become huge sluggish targets.


You know, A corp mate & I descovered that a crows missles can be outrun by a malidiction traveling at the same speed in a dogfight, but the mal could easily track the crow & rip it with lazers. Both the mal, & crow pilot's skills are maxed in their weapon choices. So why the big difference?

Perhaps this missle nerf needs to be tweeked a little more... or at least... add some bonuses to missle velosity & explosion velosity to the crow and hawk so they can actually stand a chance agaist their counterparts.

Tylara duChelm
Posted - 2009.10.26 11:52:00 - [125]
 

Quote:
lol more fail: Armor tanked ships have shield as buffer as shield tanked ships have armor as buffer.
There is a difference between bonus HP and buffer HP. If you can't grasp that, you should stop posting.

By nature, shields are gone when an armor tank activates. Gone.

By nature, armor is untouched until a shield tank fails. Thus, a failed shield tank will always have a longer duration buffer. Anyone with half a clue should realize that.

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.10.27 02:45:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: KissedByDeath

Minmatar: rifter isn't the only ship. They have excellent ship lineups in all classes from frig to bs



Ahahaha~

Altaica Amur
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.10.27 05:28:00 - [127]
 

You're right, Caldari are definitely sub-par when it comes to 1v1 combat though I have to wonder how many kills in eve happen in 1v1 combat vs. small gangs/fleet fights/etc. If my guess is right a fairly significant margin are in the latter catagory where after you've got more then say, 3 ships in gang everyone starts calling out for one of the various purpose-built caldari hulls. The first they'll call for of course is an ecm boat, though well fit drakes are also a nice thing, you don't need a big fleet to appreciate ecm indeed larger fleets tend to have more difficulty with ecm as more then one ecm platform is needed for appreciable coverage. As numbers rise of course we start to see some other caldari ships shine, namely the Rokh, premiere amoung the snipers as far as range is concerned and able to do so with an ease that's the envy of every other sniper battleship in the game.

Caldari still have their strengths, much in the same manner that minmatar do, tight niches that seem restrictive but at the same time offer an unprecedented power vs. the capabilities of more simple damage oriented boats. Caldari jam and shoot from the other side of the grid, Minmatar speed around said grid and make sure they're the only one that can do so, it's called asymmetric balance and it's what makes EVE interesting. I suspect I can speak for a few people out there that would likly unsub the day optimal ranges on sniper BSs even out along with damage, tracking disrupting and dampening are brought to be as potent as ECM and vagabond speed becomes reachable for every hac, if you want to be a close range damage dealer train another race, don't expect Caldari to become gallente for you.

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.27 08:36:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Typhado3 on 27/10/2009 08:52:20
Edited by: Typhado3 on 27/10/2009 08:38:44
Originally by: Altaica Amur
You're right, Caldari are definitely sub-par when it comes to 1v1 combat though I have to wonder how many kills in eve happen in 1v1 combat vs. small gangs/fleet fights/etc. If my guess is right a fairly significant margin are in the latter catagory where after you've got more then say, 3 ships in gang everyone starts calling out for one of the various purpose-built caldari hulls. The first they'll call for of course is an ecm boat, though well fit drakes are also a nice thing, you don't need a big fleet to appreciate ecm indeed larger fleets tend to have more difficulty with ecm as more then one ecm platform is needed for appreciable coverage. As numbers rise of course we start to see some other caldari ships shine, namely the Rokh, premiere amoung the snipers as far as range is concerned and able to do so with an ease that's the envy of every other sniper battleship in the game.

Caldari still have their strengths, much in the same manner that minmatar do, tight niches that seem restrictive but at the same time offer an unprecedented power vs. the capabilities of more simple damage oriented boats. Caldari jam and shoot from the other side of the grid, Minmatar speed around said grid and make sure they're the only one that can do so, it's called asymmetric balance and it's what makes EVE interesting. I suspect I can speak for a few people out there that would likly unsub the day optimal ranges on sniper BSs even out along with damage, tracking disrupting and dampening are brought to be as potent as ECM and vagabond speed becomes reachable for every hac, if you want to be a close range damage dealer train another race, don't expect Caldari to become gallente for you.


heres a frood who really knows where his towel is.

Part of the whole game is that eve is based around racial strengths, each race has area they are good at as well as play styles they are good at. However I will say the balance for caldari isn't perfect (and it's not cause you aren't as good solo).

My main beef is in two parts:
1) potential not reached: rokh has amazing range and if you push it to it's limites (get a friend in a scimitar) you can hit to an amazing 400 km+ easily, unfortunately this is useless. The question shouldn't be then what else it has but how to make it's strength useful. Caldari are the sniper race and when hardcoded limits put a limit on their power then you need to find a way to make it useful. The awnser may seem simple with just increasing the lock range limit but if you've looked at the eagle who also has a massive range bonus over it's oponents yet still isn't considered good you should realise it's probably not that simple (though it would be a good start).

2) Inconsistencies: While most of the ones I've found are minmatar there are a few caldari ones as well. For example shield transporters and their extremely high cpu. Many say this is a side effect of racial flavour and that is the reason why armour tanks are better at remote repping, however I say this seems unusual. In every other aspect of shield tanking they are better at active tanks while armour have advantage in buffer tanks (if you havn't figured this out by now your not paying attention) imo remote repping should fall under the active tanking. Instead they seems to balanced around play style and fotm, armour tanks are good in fleets and rr is popular in fleets so we keep it the way it is.

Fullmetal Jackass
Posted - 2009.10.27 09:27:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 27/10/2009 09:28:55


WTF is a frood and why doesn he need a towel?


I suspect remote shield boosters have a higher req because shields recharge. This makes them better at long term tanking. Armor tanks are prefered because tackle and ewar take up mid slots and most pvp is short term. You can also get a larger buffer eaiser with a passive armor tank, which works much better for remote rep. There's more reaction time to get remote reppers on the guy taking damage if he's got more HP.

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Posted - 2009.10.27 11:51:00 - [130]
 

OP is nonsense, waffle, conjecture, drivel, pish-posh and rubbish.

Caldari have had so many boosts since Gallente last had any boost to talk about them now being sub-par compared to Gallente ruins any credibilty he might have ever had.

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.27 15:24:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 27/10/2009 09:28:55


WTF is a frood and why doesn he need a towel?


I suspect remote shield boosters have a higher req because shields recharge. This makes them better at long term tanking. Armor tanks are prefered because tackle and ewar take up mid slots and most pvp is short term. You can also get a larger buffer eaiser with a passive armor tank, which works much better for remote rep. There's more reaction time to get remote reppers on the guy taking damage if he's got more HP.


frood/towel is a reference to hitch hikers guide to the galaxy.

Also I'm not sure what your trying to argue with your points about armour repping.

shields are better at long term not just because of recharge but better active tanks, long term is their speciality. Not sure why this means they should be bad at rr seeing as rr is long term tanking as well.

armour tanks buffer tank, and this helps rr. shields have better resists that works well with rr and shield rr is immedieate rather than a few seconds. But these are differences between how their rr works not reasons why shields should suck at rr.

Altaica Amur
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.10.27 22:58:00 - [132]
 

I'm not sure I can agree with you about the advantage of shield tanks long term in active tanking. Certainly full on tanks with 100% of mids and many lows dedicated to running it you can get some very beefy shield tanks but take away a few key slots, namely the mids that your shield boost amps and resists lie in and your shield tank becomes quite poor and extraordinarily cap intensive for the result you get out of it.

Also while shields haven't traditionally gone buffer we've seen a rise in them since the nanohac + scim gang came along, to the point that I've seen harbs shield buffer. There's a lot of good sense in this really as it combines some of the strengths of shields nicely, passive recharge, and the ability to build a lot of resists with just a few hardeners. The difficulty of using shields in an RR setting I suspect is more related to attitudes towards those that can easily take some RR and shield tank, namely the Raven which most mark as a horrible fleet ship. If the Rokh could do what it does now with 6 or 7 turrets instead I suspect that the free high would lead to a lot more shield RR action.

In the end I suspect it's more fleet composition favoring armor and the fact that most want to do away with 50% of the shield tankers they do get ( Ravens ) that leave shield RR looking lackluster where if you look closely at the alliance tournament and how shield RR advantages strengthened them you can see that shield RR is perfectly viable, just lacking a good BS to do it on.

WuChiJIanRen
Posted - 2009.10.27 23:52:00 - [133]
 

Caldari ships are TOO WEAK! That is true!

See! so many people use drakes in pvp just because they are too stupid so they want to be soloed.

ECMs are too weak so a falcon can not jam 1 BS with 1 ECM.It is unfair! Caldari EW ships should be as strong as other EW ships which can disable 7 BS.

What's more! Missiles even don't have a doube DPH than turrets,the fire rate is TOO slow to cause higher DPS to make turrets junk.

I am absolutely agree with you!

EEL
Posted - 2009.10.28 02:03:00 - [134]
 

I have to throw this in because it bugs me also.

After 3 years of playing caldari I no how left behind we are. I love to kill things and only due to my loyalty issues have I stayed with caldari but trying to do anything solo in a caldari ship is a joke.

All the arguments on how to fit a ship or what ships do better PFFT forget it, if you don't fly caldari and you think we just need to change our fittings or something of the like. YOU CROSS TRAIN AND FLY CALDARI I DARE YOU.

one last thing, whats the point of having races in EVE?? why can I as a base Min toon get the ship bonuses of a caldari ship?? lets make the races count for something E.G have a Min toon get Min ship bonus / caldari toon Caldari ship bonus. if you cross train then its just standard old ship.

Selieania
Posted - 2009.10.31 05:19:00 - [135]
 

vengeance > hawk
sacrilege > cerberus

and if you disagree i'll be happy to 1v1 you


Fullmetal Jackass
Posted - 2009.11.01 12:16:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Typhado3
I'm not sure what your trying to argue with your points about armour repping.

shields are better at long term not just because of recharge but better active tanks, long term is their speciality. Not sure why this means they should be bad at rr seeing as rr is long term tanking as well.

armour tanks buffer tank, and this helps rr. shields have better resists that works well with rr and shield rr is immedieate rather than a few seconds. But these are differences between how their rr works not reasons why shields should suck at rr.
It seems to me that shields recharge and armor has better resists and more hp. That's the basic balance between the two as far as I can tell.

I'm not saying shields are bad for RR, I'm saying shields are very good at lower dps, longer term tanking, because they recharge. This makes them great for missions. And this is probably why sheild transporters have the fitting reqs they do. CCP doens't normally do things for no reason. They aren't always right either.

I wasn't stating for or against, I was just sayin "maybe this is why". I was tired at the time so probably not worded well.


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