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Deltaprimus
Shadow Legion.
Posted - 2009.10.22 02:08:00 - [91]
 

Would also like to point out amour tankers weakest resist is explosive. This starts at 50%. Shield tankers weakest resist is em. This starts at 0%...

can anyone see where im going here?

we struggle to get 50-60% em resist with an invul so we need a photon scatter this means we have less med slots to use for ewar. however 2 enams put all armor resists at 70-80 on the armour tankers and there mid slots are still available...

btw i am a rook pilot have decent skills for ecm too. Today i came across a geddon. pre nerf i would hace jammed it with one racial this is obviously unfair. Now today i used two amarr racials and ecm drones and guess what happened... absolutley f**k ALL!

and as a result i died. name me one other combat recon that would have lost against this geddon... im thinking not lachesis as nice resists and some sensor damps = not dead and geddon is history. curse would neut the guy to death and thus not die and kill him and the huginn would just orbit too fast and pop him through atrition. so once again a prime example of ccp raping the caldari of anything useful.

its almost unimaginable that a hac or recon should loose to a bs!

Gamrikis
Posted - 2009.10.22 02:20:00 - [92]
 

What are you on about, A bs tears through a poorly fitted, handled not used for solo purpose hacs. Do yourself a favor hope in a Munnin and go try to take on a Geddon. You will cry just the same. My god I hope this A** clown is a troll.

Bemoteajh
Posted - 2009.10.22 05:12:00 - [93]
 

shields require mid slots while armor requires low
to many must have items in pvp use the mid slots needed for tank

mainly
webs / jams / scrams / ecm / targer painters / cap boosters / sensor boosters personal and remote / damps / eccm / tracking disrupters / afterburner or mwd

and what uses low slots needed in pvp
weapon upgrades / signal amps and why would they use signal amps when they can use sensor boosters in a spare mid

drop some to lows or give more mids

or better yet make shield tanking use lows so that every one is on even footing so there is no more crying in either camp
on a minor note total shield resist 110% total armor resist 130%

KissedByDeath
Posted - 2009.10.22 05:58:00 - [94]
 

Bemoteajh moving shield tanks to low wont solve the problem and will even create more. a buffer tanked raven needs say has 3 to 4 BCU in lows just to do almost much dps as a mega with 2 magstabs. even then because of the huge torp explosion radius your dps is reduced even when hitting BS.

And Deltaprimus you're not helping the cause by making uninformed comments. armor tanks have a staring 10% exp resist not 50%. 50 is for default shield resist. But even then it's much easier to plug the exp resist hole on armor tanks than the em hole on shield tanks. It can be brought close in line by giving caldari 10% therm resist on shields instead of armor. why the hell do shield tankers need 10% opposing racial armor resist?

as for ecm, like i said it's a weapon of choice. the only reason you're complaining is because you don't have recon trained to V? instead you have it at lvl IV i suppose. That's prolly the only way you'd notice change in ecm strength.

as for BB scorp and kitsune they were silently nerfed with the Signal distortion amplifyer changes. They need their ecm bonuses adjusted to be brought back.

Bemoteajh
Posted - 2009.10.22 06:45:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Bemoteajh on 22/10/2009 06:56:11
Originally by: KissedByDeath
Bemoteajh moving shield tanks to low wont solve the problem and will even create more. a buffer tanked raven needs say has 3 to 4 BCU in lows just to do almost much dps as a mega with 2 magstabs. even then because of the huge torp explosion radius your dps is reduced even when hitting BS.

And Deltaprimus you're not helping the cause by making uninformed comments. armor tanks have a staring 10% exp resist not 50%. 50 is for default shield resist. But even then it's much easier to plug the exp resist hole on armor tanks than the em hole on shield tanks. It can be brought close in line by giving caldari 10% therm resist on shields instead of armor. why the hell do shield tankers need 10% opposing racial armor resist?

as for ecm, like i said it's a weapon of choice. the only reason you're complaining is because you don't have recon trained to V? instead you have it at lvl IV i suppose. That's prolly the only way you'd notice change in ecm strength.

as for BB scorp and kitsune they were silently nerfed with the Signal distortion amplifyer changes. They need their ecm bonuses adjusted to be brought back.


TALKING T1
Total up the shield resist and total up the armor resist base armor has more resists which is easier to round out. or how about this im not caldari i do not fly caldari im saying this as an ex-caldari as most players are now cross training or making new chars and as for ecm hmm lets see ecm or tank ecm or tank you dont see armor users having to make choies about their lows its armor and dps mods not much else needed when you full set of empty med slots to use for everything else.
you dont see a drake using a warp scram, webber or mwd/ab as if he did his tank would be epic fail whilst a myrmidon pilot can have a full tank and tackle no problem.

you are the uninformed one saying i need skills to v to fly caldari right that in its self is a flaw a caldari pilot with great skills still gets slaughtered buy a gallente minmatar or amarr pilot with not very good skills

"Of the meticulous craftsmanship the Caldari are renowned for, the Drake was born. It was found beneath such a ship to rely on anything other than the time-honored combat tradition of missile fire, while the inclusion of sufficient CPU capabilities for decent electronic warfare goes without saying." well theres no way do do this now is there


Tylara duChelm
Posted - 2009.10.22 07:32:00 - [96]
 

Ok, newbie checking in. I only have about 2 months in game, so I have no knowledge of previous rules/releases/buffs/debuffs etc.

Quote:
Drake:
Used to be one of the toughest nuts in the game. Nearly uncrakable. 18months of being a drake pilot and i can now be solo'd. A concept that was unthinkable 18 months ago. Other races have been buffered so much that they can crack a drake solo. And if i wanted to make my drake un crackable i have to loose the point for more resists or shield. -1 caldari
It still IS one of the toughest nuts to crack. I just ran up a everything t1 drake, and came up with a 74103 ehp, with a mwd (1038m/sec speed) 363 dps, and 2150 salvo. No heating, no faction, no t2, no rigs. Drop a shield extender, and you still have a 64k EHP, but with whatever single utility medium you want. Drop a second extender and you STILL have 54191 ehp, and 2 PVP utility mids open.

It seems to me that you don't understand the strengths and weaknesses, and what is implied by them. The Caldari are the missile kings, as well as shield tanking kings. Shield tanking has the advantage of leaving your lows open for utility items (And yes, low slots can be used to boost shield tank. My build adds a damage control) such as reactor diagnostics, damage boosts, sigamps, and a plethora of other useful items. Thus a CYA drake is capable of 132k ehp (with 346 effective regen a second) with just t1 fittings and 3x core defense extender rigs. That beats the crap out of any other BC, and most BS.

Anyhow, having trouble hitting frigs with your missiles? Use assault launchers. Light missiles are designed to kill frigs. It sounds to me that you want a swiss-army-knife ship.

Such a ship SHOULD NOT EXIST. There should ALWAYS be tradeoffs. The moment the perfect ship is built, that is all anyone will fly. You want to talk about being nerfed? For Caldari you only need train up Missiles to have effective ships. There is a Missile boat in every size class. For Gallente you need to train both Hybrids and drones if you want to get to a similar damage level. For minmatar you need to train up projectiles and missiles. And you probably need to train both armor and shield tank skills. Even as a newbie it looks to me like something is wrong with your perceptions here.


KissedByDeath
Posted - 2009.10.22 07:37:00 - [97]
 

Quote:
you are the uninformed one saying i need skills to v to fly caldari right that in its self is a flaw a caldari pilot with great skills still gets slaughtered buy a gallente minmatar or amarr pilot with not very good skills


chill out. There're ways of fitting caldari ships. I'm not saying they make perfect pvp ships but you can still manage. Well mostly struggle. and unless you have good support skills the rest goes down the pooper. But the underlying problems still remain. CCP needs to do something to fix caldari. as if lack of mid slots isn't enough for tackle, now we "have to" also have TP. And forcing this on caldari is just wrong.

Tylara duChelm
Posted - 2009.10.22 07:49:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Deltaprimus
Would also like to point out amour tankers weakest resist is explosive. This starts at 50%. Shield tankers weakest resist is em. This starts at 0%...

Ahhhhh! Found the problem. You're making things up.

All t1 gallente look like this:
Armor EM Damage Resistance : 50%
Armor Explosive Damage Resistance : 10%
Armor Kinetic Damage Resistance : 35%
Armor Thermal Damage Resistance : 35%
for a total of 130% points.
Their BEST resist is 50% not their worst. They START at 10%.

Compare that to a naked Drake with level 5 skills and you get:
Shield EM Damage Resistance : 25%
Shield Explosive Damage Resistance : 62.5%
Shield Kinetic Damage Resistance : 55%
Shield Thermal Damage Resistance : 40%
for a total of 182.5% points.

2x v-m15 invulns gets your EM up to 56%. On the Myrm above you have to use energized adaptives and they end up well below 50% on explosive with only 2.

AbudSeab
Posted - 2009.10.22 10:00:00 - [99]
 

The shield tanking problem is not only because it's weaker or modules are unfitable cause of req. may be we have a small balance problem here!!! But the main reason is because only Caldari benefits well from shield tanks. There are just a few other non caldari ships that are good for shield.

So the cost/benefit relation isn't good for shield spider tank.

If you have a homogeneous fleet why should 3/4 of the fleet train and fit to help 1/4 of the fleet?

So a lot of people simply don't bother about train or fit a shield transfer.

In most PVP fleet you don't have a lot of caldari. The high population of caldari is most at high sec for PVE not PVP. So there's no reason to use a technology that can be high effective only for a small part of fleet.

This way is better to have caldari fitting a crap-armor-tank-no-damage-module than asking the fleet to field both RR and ST... Or much worst we have caldari showing with a shield/armor tank :-) to be accepted in fleet and have a bit more EHP of pure armor.

This situation completely craps caldari for most large fleets.

Angry Poster
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:16:00 - [100]
 

I don't agree that caldari suck at PVP. I've trained all four races HAC/Recon/CS/HIC with t2 weapons and I use caldari just as much as other races. They are just situational but that's the same for the other three races. You don't want to use a blaster boat for a nano gang or a cruise raven for a sniper fleet - and that's exactly the way it should be.

Imo, every race has it's roles and uses - it's just that caldari ships are bad for solo but that's about it.

Darcia Engineris
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:33:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Tylara duChelm
2x v-m15 invulns gets your EM up to 56%. On the Myrm above you have to use energized adaptives and they end up well below 50% on explosive with only 2.


you may have lower resists but now do something else. Uee 1600mm rolled tungsten plates and trimark armor pumps. Whats your total armour? now do the same with the drake but with "large" shield extenders (note that we have no equivalent to the bs size armour such as the 1600mm we have to use large) and core defence field purgers. check ur total shields? can you see what im getting at?

Mari Seles
Posted - 2009.10.22 13:35:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Mari Seles on 22/10/2009 13:49:29
Originally by: Darcia Engineris

you may have lower resists but now do something else. Uee 1600mm rolled tungsten plates and trimark armor pumps. Whats your total armour? now do the same with the drake but with "large" shield extenders (note that we have no equivalent to the bs size armour such as the 1600mm we have to use large) and core defence field purgers. check ur total shields? can you see what im getting at?


And that helps the myrmydon beat the drake how? If it's flying around with a microwarp the drake only needs a scram to negate any speed advantage the myrm has if the drake has only an afterburner. From there the drake can keep at the very edge of his scram range and enjoy being at the very limit of the falloff about halving the damage of the myrm if both use afterburners and the drake has a point the myrmidon does no damage.

But the myrm uses drones! You say? So? only drones that do any damage real damage to the drake are heavy drones. And those are shot out of the sky fast enough that it doesn't matter.

Which leaves the drake to kill the myrmydon at it's leisure. And no amount of buffer tank will safe the myrm then.

Captain Tardbar
State Protectorate
Posted - 2009.10.22 14:56:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Deltaprimus
alot of people have said that caldari are now only bookmarking and missioning race. Well what if i dont want to do one of those. Surely the race should have some option to pvp without jeopardising so much tank every 5 day old player knows they can kill caldari without too much of an issue!!!

I would seriously recommend that you fix this issue before alot of caldari players start leaving the game in order to find a more fairly balanced mmo whos makers dont persecute a group of players.


QQ

I'm Caldari and I fly Amarr ships.

Marcus Druallis
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.10.22 15:05:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Deltaprimus
what i mean is before the nerf yes it was too easy to jam but now its ridiculously irritatingly hard to do so. battleships fit an eccm and theyre immune. i dont see anything that negates an arazu's scrambler knocking out your microwarpdrive or something negating the effect of a curse as easy as eccm does...


Fit an AB, Fit a nos or cap booster. Done.

ECM was WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY OP. Play the game.

KissedByDeath
Posted - 2009.10.22 22:02:00 - [105]
 

Compare that to a naked Drake with level 5 skills and you get:
Fail. not every caldari ship is a drake. most caldari ships have massive EM resist hole. While armor tankers start at 10% resist on armor, caldari start at 0% EM resist. While other races get Oposing racial resists to their armor, caldari don't get any oposing racial resist to shields.(i.e. therm)

Quote:
And that helps the myrmydon beat the drake how? If it's flying around with a microwarp the drake only needs a scram to negate any speed advantage the myrm has if the drake has only an afterburner. From there the drake can keep at the very edge of his scram range and enjoy being at the very limit of the falloff about halving the damage of the myrm if both use afterburners and the drake has a point the myrmidon does no damage.

I wonder where you get those hypothetical stats. Try this. Myrm webs the drake and the drake is effectively tackled. I cannot understand you when you say myrm does no damage? that doesn't sound right.

Darcia Engineris
Posted - 2009.10.23 08:11:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Mari Seles
Edited by: Mari Seles on 22/10/2009 13:49:29
Originally by: Darcia Engineris

you may have lower resists but now do something else. Uee 1600mm rolled tungsten plates and trimark armor pumps. Whats your total armour? now do the same with the drake but with "large" shield extenders (note that we have no equivalent to the bs size armour such as the 1600mm we have to use large) and core defence field purgers. check ur total shields? can you see what im getting at?


And that helps the myrmydon beat the drake how? If it's flying around with a microwarp the drake only needs a scram to negate any speed advantage the myrm has if the drake has only an afterburner. From there the drake can keep at the very edge of his scram range and enjoy being at the very limit of the falloff about halving the damage of the myrm if both use afterburners and the drake has a point the myrmidon does no damage.

But the myrm uses drones! You say? So? only drones that do any damage real damage to the drake are heavy drones. And those are shot out of the sky fast enough that it doesn't matter.

Which leaves the drake to kill the myrmydon at it's leisure. And no amount of buffer tank will safe the myrm then.


once again another sound example of people who know absolutley FA about pvp and caldari ships. Look guys if you dont know what your talking about dont post. If you actually have a sound argument as to whether or not caldari should be buffed then post...

zzzshadow
Posted - 2009.10.23 10:13:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Deltaprimus
Seriously i mean wtf?!

I didnt intend to leave this thread although ive been thinking about it for a while.
Your buffering one of the most feared races for pvp to make them even better when caldari are so incredibly underpowered at pvp its insane.



I knew it will not be long for caldari whine thread. Its sad however that it happens even before new changes in game.
Why you and most caldari people suck at pvp? Just for 1 reason, you think PVP=PVE.
In PVP you cant go afk and come back after 10 mins to see that rats havent punched through half of your shield.
And that is why everyone use caldari ships for PVE.
You cant expect to have same fit for every situation.

I've killed with easy drake with em ammo, when drake was fitted kin-explosive.
But that is pilots mistake not ship mistake.
Same it goes for every ship in game.

However i have witnessed and died to caldari ships that had innovative and pvp oriented fits.



Niko Takahashi
Posted - 2009.10.23 11:45:00 - [108]
 

My 2 cents

I dont have any other skills then caldari and missiles.

HAM drake with tackle and gank fit and t2 drones great you have to get that web on the target.

Cerb very versatile SHINES with minie recons in tandem even.

Rook didnt really fly it but from what I have read and see from cerb should be great.

What caldari need imo is few things changed.
1 let the guided missille precision skill work on all missiles.
2. Lower the cpu requirement of X-large T2 boosters and remote shield reppers. This will actually make the rr shield fleet viable and Vulture be a useful ship :)
3. slight an I mean slight increase of the explosion velocity IF you do point 1 its not needed.
4. ROCKETS fix the dam things

Problem now is that fleets are armor boosted and shield boosting fleets are not common so the caldari ship are automaticaly not geting the bonuses which is significant.

As far as OP he whines too much. There are issues with caldari its not nearly as tragic as he makes it seem.

Niko Takahashi
Posted - 2009.10.23 11:57:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: AbudSeab
The shield tanking problem is not only because it's weaker or modules are unfitable cause of req. may be we have a small balance problem here!!! But the main reason is because only Caldari benefits well from shield tanks. There are just a few other non caldari ships that are good for shield.

So the cost/benefit relation isn't good for shield spider tank.

If you have a homogeneous fleet why should 3/4 of the fleet train and fit to help 1/4 of the fleet?

So a lot of people simply don't bother about train or fit a shield transfer.

In most PVP fleet you don't have a lot of caldari. The high population of caldari is most at high sec for PVE not PVP. So there's no reason to use a technology that can be high effective only for a small part of fleet.

This way is better to have caldari fitting a crap-armor-tank-no-damage-module than asking the fleet to field both RR and ST... Or much worst we have caldari showing with a shield/armor tank :-) to be accepted in fleet and have a bit more EHP of pure armor.

This situation completely craps caldari for most large fleets.



Since ppl use out of game voice comms anyhow ther is no reason any normal FC would not setup a separate fleet for caldari/some minnie part of fleet. With their own logistics and CS to boost it ,it's possible. However most fcs are too lazy to do it.
OR Lack the numbers of Caldari/Minnie ppl to do it.

I would actually love to see a full dam shield based fleet with chimeras bsilisk vultures and all the blink applied I would bet it would suprise a lot of ppl.

Mari Seles
Posted - 2009.10.23 12:58:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Darcia Engineris


once again another sound example of people who know absolutley FA about pvp and caldari ships. Look guys if you dont know what your talking about dont post. If you actually have a sound argument as to whether or not caldari should be buffed then post...


And is there a point in that besides: "You are wrong I'm right so suck it?"

Enlighten me as to why I'm wrong?

Xahara
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.10.23 15:45:00 - [111]
 

Nice troll, Deltaprimus. Either that or you're pretty good at being a noob, tbh. Caldari have their ups and downs. Here, let me rub it in your face a bit.

Drake: Most overpowered Battlecruiser there is. It has a massive buffer tank and some respectable damage. If you can't win a 1v1 with any other battlecruiser while you are in a Drake, then you sir, are a giant n00b.

The problem with Caldari is that people are inherently dumb and they bring their PVE setups to PVP. Which is completely ******ed. You should not fly a SPR/Purger rigged Drake into PVP, never, ever. Drakes are meant for buffer tanking and BCSs in the lows with HAMs in the highs, nothing else.

There's a reason why they have a resist bonus and that reason is to buffer tank. Also, Buffer Tank =/= Passive Regen Tank, FYI.

Missiles: So, missiles are underpowered? Have you ever fired a Torpedo out of a Raven? Doesn't seem like it. 30km range + 1300DPS + always hits isn't good enough for you? I bet you're one of those guys that wants the 70km range back so you become even more overpowered than you already are. (On this note, WTB Hybrid Turret buff).

Raven: Look up for Torpedo facts. Regarding tank, I figure that 120k EHP tank is not enough for you. It will absolutely pwn a Mega (reference). I've thought of speedtanking the Torps by orbiting a Raven, but I'll still have to test that for real. Also, look up PVE =/= PVP fact.

ECM:
CCP just buffed Falcon's ECM strenght while buffing Scorp's ECM range. What do you want more? A 250km wide perma ECM smartbomb? Lol.

Tengu: No comments. Look up "Uber" in urban dictionary.

Drone Bay: Err... Caldari is not a drone race. Gallente is. Also, I'd figure 2x heavies, 2x med and 1x light would be enough for a ship such as a Raven, right?

And don't start with the whole crap about: "Oh, but according to the story, Caldari should have the most ubersaucepwnage weapon systems!". Races are supposed to be balanced and you also have to think about what role you want to fullfill. Some races are good in certain roles, some races are not. It's how EVE is. If you don't like it, WoW is that way ---->

One last thing,

Originally by: Deltaprimus
I think this thread is an absolute joke.



/Thread

Archon Theo
Minmatar
guy510 Corp
Posted - 2009.10.23 16:07:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Deltaprimus
Now a falcon cant even get the jame strength to perma jam a bs in one jammer.
Thats where I stopped reading, listen to what you are saying: A falcon should be able to perma jam an entire gang on it's own.. RAWR.. A falcon should at most be able to perma jam a bs with all mids on it and thats not even fair because it's a cruiser completely nullifying a battleship. Ecm is annoying enough when you only get a few volleys on target at a time. You have to take into account that a bs has long locking time so each time you get a jam cycle you are effectively taking it out for at least 30 sec which is as long as an entire fight in some cases. So if the Falcon gets a few jam cycles on a few targets in a fight I'd say thats fine and logical but it shouldn't be the omgwtfpwnmobile it used to be, thumbs up CCP.

Battlingbean
Heaven's Gate
Posted - 2009.10.23 22:24:00 - [113]
 

I don't have a beef with ECM.
However, a falcon should be able able to jam a small fleet. Thats the whole point of the ship. No one flies it for its massive dps or tank, In fact if ANYONE has ECCM or otherwise isn't jammed the falcon is in serious trouble. Also if there's a curse the falcon should just run.

Tylara duChelm
Posted - 2009.10.23 22:50:00 - [114]
 

Quote:
Fail. not every caldari ship is a drake. most caldari ships have massive EM resist hole. While armor tankers start at 10% resist on armor, caldari start at 0% EM resist. While other races get Oposing racial resists to their armor, caldari don't get any oposing racial resist to shields.(i.e. therm)[\quote] Logic fail. In other words, think about it more. When a shield tank gets broken they have armor left with which to bug out with. When an armor tank gets broken, you're down to hull. A broken armor tank almost always ends up with a dead ship. A shield tank has a little bit more time. Further, the weakest bit of a shield tank (EM) plays into the strongest resist of one's unbuffed armor. Comparing straight armor to straight shields will have the armor's natural bonus win every time. However you have to consider the advantages of both. . . armor doesn't have a natural regen, which somewhat offsets its lower resists.

But if you are looking at Caldari vs the other races, look at more datapoints. Amarr: Tons of ships with armor-resist buffs, most accurate turrets in the game, and tons of lows to enhance their armortank. Amarr is currently being referred to the "flavor of the month." From what I've seen, this is true. Caldari generally are outright weaker than their Amarr counterparts.

Minmatar: Uses the weakest turrets in the game, which have the same ammo-size issue that missiles do. They require more skills to fly than any other race, and have the weakest tanks of any race. (Somewhat compensated by being the fastest race in the game.) They have all the disadvantages of the Caldari's issue with missiles, in weaker ships (If a bit more flexible) For speed oriented ships they're excellent (IMO the rifter is the best t1 frig in the game.) but for everything else they're sub-par. Nice sensors, though.

Gallente: Tanking almost as good as Amarr, but with more mids for pvp utility. Worst LP store in the game, however. Drones allow some ship builds to focus all their slots on defense, while relying on them for offense, which makes them particularly dangerous. Despite this, relatively few PVP ships mount anti-drone defenses. (Caldari can use smartbombs just like any other race.) Even with drones, Gallente damage is sub-par, as they have to use their low slots for tank, and not for armor-tank, and unlike Amarr don't have enough lows to do both. Good utility PVP ships, bad for damage, IMO.

So from what I've gathered thus far, the Caldari are roughly equal to the gallente, with more focus on damage, and less on flexibility. They're distinctly behind the Amarr in solo PVP, but ahead of anything but speed oriented Minmie. Caldari don't need buffing, Amarr need to be brought into the same level as everyone else.

Markus Reese
Caldari
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2009.10.23 23:11:00 - [115]
 

Hmm... It doesn't say it anymore, but in the old character creation, it used to mention how the different factions worked, and the Caldari used to say that they were snipers and support. That is the key. While caldari cannot stand solo very well, the more together, the more powerful they are. Abilities to maintain long ranges makes it much harder for blobs to take them out because they can space so much, etc. And of course, missile swarms are deadly. I do agree however that the racial type for the missiles does need to go. Minmatar don't have say, ##% damage bonus when using depleted uranium. As stated earlier, that restriction is essentially useless come pvp.

KissedByDeath
Posted - 2009.10.24 09:35:00 - [116]
 


Quote:
Logic fail. In other words, think about it more. When a shield tank gets broken they have armor left with which to bug out with. When an armor tank gets broken, you're down to hull. A broken armor tank almost always ends up with a dead ship. A shield tank has a little bit more time. Further, the weakest bit of a shield tank (EM) plays into the strongest resist of one's unbuffed armor. Comparing straight armor to straight shields will have the armor's natural bonus win every time. However you have to consider the advantages of both. . . armor doesn't have a natural regen, which somewhat offsets its lower resists.

But if you are looking at Caldari vs the other races, look at more datapoints. Amarr: Tons of ships with armor-resist buffs, most accurate turrets in the game, and tons of lows to enhance their armortank. Amarr is currently being referred to the "flavor of the month." From what I've seen, this is true. Caldari generally are outright weaker than their Amarr counterparts.

Minmatar: Uses the weakest turrets in the game, which have the same ammo-size issue that missiles do. They require more skills to fly than any other race, and have the weakest tanks of any race. (Somewhat compensated by being the fastest race in the game.) They have all the disadvantages of the Caldari's issue with missiles, in weaker ships (If a bit more flexible) For speed oriented ships they're excellent (IMO the rifter is the best t1 frig in the game.) but for everything else they're sub-par. Nice sensors, though.

Gallente: Tanking almost as good as Amarr, but with more mids for pvp utility. Worst LP store in the game, however. Drones allow some ship builds to focus all their slots on defense, while relying on them for offense, which makes them particularly dangerous. Despite this, relatively few PVP ships mount anti-drone defenses. (Caldari can use smartbombs just like any other race.) Even with drones, Gallente damage is sub-par, as they have to use their low slots for tank, and not for armor-tank, and unlike Amarr don't have enough lows to do both. Good utility PVP ships, bad for damage, IMO.

So from what I've gathered thus far, the Caldari are roughly equal to the gallente, with more focus on damage, and less on flexibility. They're distinctly behind the Amarr in solo PVP, but ahead of anything but speed oriented Minmie. Caldari don't need buffing, Amarr need to be brought into the same level as everyone else.



lol more fail: Armor tanked ships have shield as buffer as shield tanked ships have armor as buffer.
when a shield tank gets broken the armor is rarely worth anything. However when it comes to the HULL, most armor tanked ships have more hull than shield tanks (i.e caldari). having 50% armor EM resist on a paper thin armor isn't such a big deal when EM is one of the most common damage types and consider that you have to plug your shield EM resist hole from 0%


Minmatar: rifter isn't the only ship. They have excellent ship lineups in all classes from frig to bs
Amarr: need not say more.
Gallente: DPS is anything but subpar. quit making jokes.
I don't see how your last comment make sense. Gallente are prolly the most flexible race with enough mids and lows for takle/propulsion/eccm/ + tank/damage mods and great damage

Jekyl Eraser
Posted - 2009.10.24 10:55:00 - [117]
 





This thread is the new FOTM bakery





Deltaprimus
Shadow Legion.
Posted - 2009.10.24 19:00:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Deltaprimus on 24/10/2009 19:52:07
LMFAO!

Ok was wrong just cnr. But still why subject a race to such brutality. Its a bloody ratting ship and ccp are now nerfin caldari in that aspect as well. Jesus.
Really raging lol

I just cant believe that one race can be victimized so much. Best missioning ship is now rendered useless and in the same go youve taken away one of our only viable pvp ship. Jesus. Can you make us suck harder? Evil or Very Mad

darius mclever
Posted - 2009.10.24 19:13:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Deltaprimus
LMFAO!

Just found out that passive shield tanks are getting nerfed. SO guys now you can stop quoting the drake at us. the caldari just lost their best ship for pvp and now has nothing to offer on the table. Great one ccp! +1 to the most ridiculous nerfs ever.

Really raging lol

I just cant believe that one race can be victimized so much. Best missioning ship is now rendered useless and in the same go youve taken away one of our only viable pvp ship. Jesus. Can you make us suck harder? Evil or Very Mad


you are still trolling. you should mention the source of the claim that passive shield tanks are nerfed. the only known change to passive shield tanks are navy battleships.

Iman Atheist
Gangrel Mining and Security
High Treason Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.24 19:39:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Iman Atheist on 24/10/2009 19:42:22
.
First off, I love the Caldari whinage in the opening post. It just brightened my day. But, more to the point:

If anything, this game needs:
1) better-looking ships
2) better-looking ships
3) better-looking ships (Seriously, CCP artists, WTF!?)

Therefore, less Caldari is better by default.
Oh, and in some cases Minmatar.

Caldari ships, no matter what stats, slots and bonuses they have, are simply unplayable (key word being "play") because of how ugly they are. I wouldn't be caught dead in a Moa/Onyx, or a Scorpion/Widow. The only exceptions are the Kestrel, Drake and Rokh models, but 3 ships are hardly worth picking a race for.

Seriously, I said this countless times and I'll say it again: THIS IS A SPACE-BASED SF VIDEO-GAME. Cool ships are the whole point. If you don't have that, you have nothing. Nothing. Games are not about polygons and textures, it's what you do with them.

I wish people WHO HAVEN'T STARTED PLAYING EVE YET knew how much Caldari suck, so they would all pick, like, Amarr or Gallente when they start. That would return some fun to this game.


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