open All Channels
seplocked Market Discussions
blankseplocked [SCAM] Yih's Anti-Goon Business Plan
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 ... : last (18)

Author Topic

xttz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.18 21:51:00 - [151]
 

I'd like to thank you for this. The thread it spawned on our forums about it is rapidly becoming full of bunnies.

The good kind of bunnies.

Palmer Eldritch
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.10.19 01:21:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: Yih

GoonSwarm has it's fingers in every pie imaginable, from Investment, Piracy, and Production. To Black Ops, Merc Actions, and Scamming. It's actions are so large that most corporations do something for them, without even being aware of it.



Just quoting this bit because I like it.

Yih
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.10.19 02:55:00 - [153]
 

Quote:
Third time I ask this:
If you fail to raise the funds, What are you going to do? Are you going to go ahead without them? Are you going to refund them? How much time are you going to wait if not filling until you declare that the objectives has not been met and what will happen then?


I thought I'd already answered this, but on further scanning, I realise I haven't. Probably wrote it in a reply, and then didn't post it for some mysterious unknown reason. Or I might have answered it in scc-lounge. Whichever.

Since I didn't, you raise a pretty valid point. I'll answer the last question, since they are all really the same in my mind (you're using technical MD lingo that my brain just turns into mush ~HULK SMASH~) Basically if I don't get any investment activity for a week, I'll call this a failure. If I get some form of an offer from people which means I need to raise less capital, I will close early and go ahead with less (shares still get .2%). Outside of these things, it will hinge on talking with investors. Everyone who has invested has been added to my address book. If It's getting close to D-Day, and I'm short on funds, I will send a mass EVE mail to investors explaining the situation, and that it is up to them to call if they would like a refund, or are happy investing for an extended time.

If investors request a refund, I will of course be happy to oblige. I will even attempt to throw in 3% return per month on their investment, for the life of the term they invested into (min 1 month). This would of course come out of my own pocket.

For those wishing to stay along for the ride, I'll keep them as up to date as possible re: what's happening with their ISK. They will receive a dynamic portion of assets, scaling up with the amount of people who haven't invested. But this plan could take 8 months - 1 year, depending on how things go.

Ideally we'd like to be fully invested sooner, rather than later. I've been receiving a steady trickle of investment (roughly 600m a day at present + donations) and we all know it just takes one or two big investments to get this off the ground.

Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.10.19 03:44:00 - [154]
 

I haven't read the thread in full, but I have read both of the predecessor threads that lead to this thread being created.

I had an interesting thought that I thought I would share.

I won't believe that anyone in Eve would believe this to be a legitimate business plan, for a plethora of reasons that I needn't go into details about; the one I noticed that isn't mentioned is that Yih claimed in a previous thread to have 15 billion already, but that isn't accounted for in his shareholders.

My idea....since folks have verified that Yih's main is capable of doing what he professes to be wanting to do, my gut says that he and the Goonswarm leadership have decided that Goonswarm is too big now; they're bored, lacking anything to do, space is blue, and they didn't create and join goonswarm to become the next BoB.

As such, they plan to dismantle parts of Goonswarm to liven things up, and this "IPO" is a means to get paid for doing what they were going to do anyway. Goonswarm leader/directors get to say, "Look, we did what we promised!" which was what they intended anyway, and coup de'tat the breakup of their alliance into smaller pieces with a golden parachute exemplified through this grand scam.

Point being - Yih and friends plan on breaking up Goonswarm, were going to do so anyway, and are using the circumstances of doing so to pull off this attempted heist. I'd imagine that there isn't a lot in the Goonswarm hangars to steal (the very nature of their membership is scamtastic and encourages stealing, which means community goods are nonexistent) so stealing all the alliances' assets won't get them paid as they break things down.

Instead, he/they are going to steal the community's money to at least make profit from having done so. It all adds up.

Yih
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.10.19 05:49:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Curzon Dax
I haven't read the thread in full, but I have read both of the predecessor threads that lead to this thread being created.

I had an interesting thought that I thought I would share.

I won't believe that anyone in Eve would believe this to be a legitimate business plan, for a plethora of reasons that I needn't go into details about; the one I noticed that isn't mentioned is that Yih claimed in a previous thread to have 15 billion already, but that isn't accounted for in his shareholders.


And yet people have. As for the 15 billion, if you fully read that, you would know what that 15 billion was for, and it WASN'T for investment. That was paid by a third party who wished a ringside seat, something I offered in my initial venture. He was refunded when I changed my setup, and since then has graciously donated. No it isn't listed, because it's not an investment.

Quote:
Point being - Yih and friends plan on breaking up Goonswarm, were going to do so anyway, and are using the circumstances of doing so to pull off this attempted heist. I'd imagine that there isn't a lot in the Goonswarm hangars to steal (the very nature of their membership is scamtastic and encourages stealing, which means community goods are nonexistent) so stealing all the alliances' assets won't get them paid as they break things down.


Second point. Goons don't steal from other goons, period. I love how you palm youself off as someone who knows and understands how goons operate/work, but you don't. Your 'imagination' in this instance, is very flawed. We give any newbie who rocks up in our alliance a bunch of fully fitted ships to go out and get blown up in. Yes, we encourage those parts of the game (because they are parts of the game) but we do not encourage them against our own membership or even our allies.

People found out to be doing this, get booted. No if's, buts, or maybes. Please do not pretend to know all about goonswarm when you haven't even bothered to read their public wiki (where **** like that is explained)

Quote:
Instead, he/they are going to steal the community's money to at least make profit from having done so. It all adds up.


Exception. If this were a newbie goons scam, it would be completely legitimate. It's nice, thought out, would probably scam some members for around the 4-5bil mark if left untouched.

Let's instead look at it from a goon leadership point of view.

120 billion is made from our moons in seriously ****-all time. The running costs of our nullsec alone equate to more than this per month. 120billion ISK is not a 'big deal' to the core leadership of goonSwarm (as the core leadership of goonSwarm) for an individual leadership figure, it's a little better, but still not much.

For any in the leadership to use THIS method of scamming, as opposed to numerous others which would get more ISK in less work, is laughable. They would have to be stupid, and would get laughed at within GS for wasting so much time scamming for such little ISK.

In no time at all I could pull a scam which would net me 40b, and the best thing, it would take me less than a week. The logic is not there for this to be a leadership scam. The logic IS there for this to be a low member scam. That is mitigated by the fact that it's been proven that I'm not a low member.

Furthermore, a low member would not be taking measures to SPEND some of the isk he is gaining (in terms of hiring mercs/ alliances) nor would he waste his time gaining their support.

ISK:time this is a damn poor scam, even if it gets filled.

I put it to you that your logic is the one full of more holes than swiss cheese. It shows a lack of forethought, and a lack of investigation on your part. So stop being a troll, and GTFO of my thread. You're still ****y that I didn't bribe you for your 'audit'.

Now your epic 'I'm quitting eve' thread? heh. *eats popcorn and watches the show*

ZenAndNow
Posted - 2009.10.19 06:12:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Yih
Words.


Welp.

From this we can say he probably isn't bluffing. Well played goon sir.

May you and this thread continue to entertain, much like PhillipX had been.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.10.19 08:02:00 - [157]
 

Quote:

Pretty much what another pilot stated, my business relies on me being netural towards everyone, and I feel that accepting OP's contract/request would make my neutrality towards the Goons shift slightly, hence I rather decline a contract to remain neutral towards everyone.



How do you deal with pressure and downright ransom, since you got so many priceless EvE icons (Veldnaught and more) that could be used against you?

(/me thinks Chribba is an unique phenomenon, someone should write a biographic book like: "Chribba: the man, the veldspar").



Quote:

If I get some form of an offer from people which means I need to raise less capital, I will close early and go ahead with less (shares still get .2%). Outside of these things, it will hinge on talking with investors. Everyone who has invested has been added to my address book. If It's getting close to D-Day, and I'm short on funds, I will send a mass EVE mail to investors explaining the situation, and that it is up to them to call if they would like a refund, or are happy investing for an extended time.

If investors request a refund, I will of course be happy to oblige. I will even attempt to throw in 3% return per month on their investment, for the life of the term they invested into (min 1 month). This would of course come out of my own pocket.

For those wishing to stay along for the ride, I'll keep them as up to date as possible re: what's happening with their ISK. They will receive a dynamic portion of assets, scaling up with the amount of people who haven't invested. But this plan could take 8 months - 1 year, depending on how things go.

Ideally we'd like to be fully invested sooner, rather than later. I've been receiving a steady trickle of investment (roughly 600m a day at present + donations) and we all know it just takes one or two big investments to get this off the ground



Ok, let me suggest something (harpies, get ready to flame and tell I am siding with him!):

Bad Bobby despite the funny name is an hugely respected MD member who has managed to raise well above 100B.
He exposed everything in the clearest way, his investment poses almost zero risks (excluded scam ofc), he got a whole group of people to control the capital, he is "famous" since long time, he made preparatory threads that are being used as reference on how it's done.

Now, Bad Bobby took months to raise that capital.

What makes you believe it'll take "1-2 weeks" to do the same, expecially being an unknown alt of a GS director (GS fame does not help you)?
Shouldn't you try and get some more reference material, beginning with Bad Bobby's IPO instead of going ahead like that?

Nobaudee
Posted - 2009.10.19 08:32:00 - [158]
 

As VV said it took BB a long time to get what funds he did and with a secured plan. Goons are scammers.... that's the rep they wanted and the rep they have.

The only way to overcome this would be collateral. You mentioned that you have some shinys that no one else has..... so put up 150B in shinys with a trusted third party. Then have that person come on here and say that they have the 150 B in collateral.

This would allow people to invest without the worry of a Goon scam, and at the end you get your shinys back.

There are enough people in Eve who dislike GS so that this could fill overnight if there was some kind of security.

Without it you will never get the funds you want.

But good luck anyways :)

Yih
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.10.19 09:55:00 - [159]
 

VV I don't believe I ever said '1-2 weeks'

I have no illusions about the amount of time it will take to work up this capital.

As for the collateral, the collateral can be traced when it goes missing, very simple, so that's a no (unfortunately)

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.10.19 10:35:00 - [160]
 

Quote:

VV I don't believe I ever said '1-2 weeks'



While this is "diagonal" to what you say:


Quote:

Basically if I don't get any investment activity for a week, I'll call this a failure.



I'd consider this sentence as a time out, and a close one. And one we can't check as well (ie you can state you are getting 1 isk a week to keep it rolling and none can prove it's true or not).


Quote:

As for the collateral, the collateral can be traced when it goes missing, very simple, so that's a no (unfortunately)



Business is a "do ut des" activity.


If you have huge success and "reputation" this is the only case where you can be picky and say "gimme" with no problem.

But in the normal "no name" investee case - and you can consider lucking out if you manage to raise to "normal case", you have also to give something away.
If you can't disclose anything it's fine, but then you have to find out something more tangible than "believe me". Because it hardly works even on new investees with solid plans and low risk, why should it work in this case?

As I probably posted already, there's in my country a short series movie about an intricate case of spies and secret agencies. The protagonist is continuously betrayed and cannot trust anyone, even the closest kinship.
None the less, he has to pursue a difficult objective and he needs the help of those unreliable and probably betraying others.

You are in the same situation. The protagonist in the movie in the end pulls it off.

What is your detailed strategy to pull it off?
You either formulate a viable, working and competitive business plan you believe in and involve others into believing it. Or you don't.

Which of the two is here? And *how*? Not a foggy try, but a real *plan* on *why* this should be trusted.

Because as of now, let's assume that everyone believe at 100000% that you are the Director, that you have "teh powah" and so on.

That's fine. But what happens from now on, detailed in a way a neutral and not stupid investor will be convinced?
In case you noticed, the "Goon" or even "anti-Goon" keyword does not impress investors more than so much, but only some CAOD alts.

Remove the fluff, show the meat.


PS don't intend this as an "attack" or as "she changed her mind". I *am* completely neutral on the business at stake. Where I am *not* neutral was at the show of idiocy of some flamers in past replies.
In a business forum you (impersonal you for the dim) don't contest a person like "lol goon alt" but with a reasoned argument against the business feasibility or robustness.

Yih
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.10.19 11:14:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

VV I don't believe I ever said '1-2 weeks'



While this is "diagonal" to what you say:


Quote:

Basically if I don't get any investment activity for a week, I'll call this a failure.



I'd consider this sentence as a time out, and a close one. And one we can't check as well (ie you can state you are getting 1 isk a week to keep it rolling and none can prove it's true or not).


A: investment is a minimum of 300m ISK. If people think I am keeping the investment unfairly open, I would gladly submit to some sort of audit. I would like to keep my investors happy. If there is a period of 1 week where I do not get a single investment, I'm fairly certain I'm unlikely to get anymore. As such, I would act as outlined above. Yes it took Bobby months, but those months he also had a steady reservation cycle.

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha


Business is a "do ut des" activity.


If you have huge success and "reputation" this is the only case where you can be picky and say "gimme" with no problem.

But in the normal "no name" investee case - and you can consider lucking out if you manage to raise to "normal case", you have also to give something away.
If you can't disclose anything it's fine, but then you have to find out something more tangible than "believe me". Because it hardly works even on new investees with solid plans and low risk, why should it work in this case?

As I probably posted already, there's in my country a short series movie about an intricate case of spies and secret agencies. The protagonist is continuously betrayed and cannot trust anyone, even the closest kinship.
None the less, he has to pursue a difficult objective and he needs the help of those unreliable and probably betraying others.

You are in the same situation. The protagonist in the movie in the end pulls it off.

What is your detailed strategy to pull it off?
You either formulate a viable, working and competitive business plan you believe in and involve others into believing it. Or you don't.

Which of the two is here? And *how*? Not a foggy try, but a real *plan* on *why* this should be trusted.

Because as of now, let's assume that everyone believe at 100000% that you are the Director, that you have "teh powah" and so on.

That's fine. But what happens from now on, detailed in a way a neutral and not stupid investor will be convinced?
In case you noticed, the "Goon" or even "anti-Goon" keyword does not impress investors more than so much, but only some CAOD alts.

Remove the fluff, show the meat.


PS don't intend this as an "attack" or as "she changed her mind". I *am* completely neutral on the business at stake. Where I am *not* neutral was at the show of idiocy of some flamers in past replies.
In a business forum you (impersonal you for the dim) don't contest a person like "lol goon alt" but with a reasoned argument against the business feasibility or robustness.



And yet VV, I am receiving investment. The total (if you have looked at the front page) equates to 9.3 billion ISK worth of investment, no small amount. (and something many investors who have more going for them don't get). Some of the Investors are decently known figures also.

I have not had anyone come up and say 'hey give us more details and I'll invest' Even though I've openly stated on more than one occassion that I would answer any questions fielded my way. I've even answered Krathos's posts regularly, although he has no intention of investing (I believe).

If people have specific queries, they can ask. I only 'flame' those who make uneducated assumptions. If they don't want to be public about it, they know my character name, they can talk to me in-game.

If one of these 'market vets' turned around and said they would invest even 300m into my plan if I gave more details. I would. But they don't. Anyone who is seriously wishing more details, contact me here, or in-game. I don't bite.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.10.19 15:15:00 - [162]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 19/10/2009 19:01:46
Quote:

A: investment is a minimum of 300m ISK. If people think I am keeping the investment unfairly open, I would gladly submit to some sort of audit.



"Some sort of", like?


Quote:

And yet VV, I am receiving investment. The total (if you have looked at the front page) equates to 9.3 billion ISK worth of investment, no small amount



There are bonds for multiple billions getting filled within 1 hour of their publication. Getting 9.3 billions in days and days of hard work is not optimal compared to what you'd get in a less secretive way. Sure, if you are fine with this speed, then it's ok for me ugh.

Late edit: yes this is a preview of just a tiny subset of what everyone I audit has to endure.

Johnny ReeRee
The ReeRee Brigade
Posted - 2009.10.19 21:13:00 - [163]
 

Now I'm pretty sure Yih is a scammer. How do I know? Simple -- he appears to be taking VV seriously. No one would do that without an ulterior motive.

The more VV asks for, and the more Yih is forced to write, the greater the odds the thing will fail even if it were legit. There's nothing VV's lolvestigation can contribute here that will in the slightest respect contribute to anyone's understanding of the real risks.

Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2009.10.19 21:48:00 - [164]
 

Hey, I'll entertain this with a more serious question:

How many directors are there in Goonswarm? If you don't think it will erode your hiest, how many are in a position to do precisely what you propose to pull off?

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.10.19 22:25:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: Johnny ReeRee
Now I'm pretty sure Yih is a scammer. How do I know? Simple -- he appears to be taking VV seriously. No one would do that without an ulterior motive.


To much displeausure to those who claimed me siding for him, well, I am not going to be soft with what I ask. Like anyone else I audited in the past.

Quote:

The more VV asks for, and the more Yih is forced to write, the greater the odds the thing will fail even if it were legit. There's nothing VV's lolvestigation can contribute here that will in the slightest respect contribute to anyone's understanding of the real risks.



He can reply in game to a trusted third party (not necessarily me) and have a confirmation off that person on the forums.
It'd not be the first time an investee chooses to keep some parts confidential.

Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
Posted - 2009.10.19 23:18:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Yih
A: investment is a minimum of 300m ISK. If people think I am keeping the investment unfairly open, I would gladly submit to some sort of audit. I would like to keep my investors happy. If there is a period of 1 week where I do not get a single investment, I'm fairly certain I'm unlikely to get anymore. As such, I would act as outlined above. Yes it took Bobby months, but those months he also had a steady reservation cycle.
That doesn't help, you can invest with alts to skip one low week or could it be that one weak week breaks the investment when filling at a decent rate. Put another cap check like X% filled by day D and total amount by day D2 (put at least three checkpoints). I make this comments in the light of the recent BIG titan lottery, without fixed date and the problems it has brought.

Originally by: Yih
I have not had anyone come up and say 'hey give us more details and I'll invest' Even though I've openly stated on more than one occassion that I would answer any questions fielded my way. I've even answered Krathos's posts regularly, although he has no intention of investing (I believe).
I believe that valid concerns should be answered independently of who asked them. It is true that I have no intention of investing atm, mainly because you have failed to provide any solution to the problem of you being perfectly ok (not losing anything) if you choose to scam, being that chance relying only on the word given by someone who's word means nothing. Not just because you have bad rep (being in GS), but because you have no reputation at all.

Quote:
If one of these 'market vets' turned around and said they would invest even 300m into my plan if I gave more details. I would. But they don't. Anyone who is seriously wishing more details, contact me here, or in-game. I don't bite.
I think we have come to a point where facts are more needed than talk, we need security. Even if the plan were perfect and all details ensure it can not fail, this whole venture will fail if it relies enterely on your word alone for not scamming.

Anyway thanks for the replies and the thread, it is at the least entertaining and different. I think you should link the original threads in the OP and make some 3rd party check the payments made as suggested to improve it.

Unless you success at answering this question by VV this can not success: "Not a foggy try, but a real *plan* on *why* this should be trusted." This question has nothing to do about details, but about security, because I fail to see how can you answer that question positively with words and without facts.

Dramaticus
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.20 02:58:00 - [167]
 

just think of this as like one of those eve banks you idiots keep putting money into

Arcika Toalen
GoonFleet
Posted - 2009.10.20 10:14:00 - [168]
 

Yih is Karttoon.

Just wanted to call it.

LT Rayzor
The Necropolis
Frater Adhuc Excessum
Posted - 2009.10.20 12:42:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Arcika Toalen
Yih is Karttoon.

Just wanted to call it.


confirmed.

Sargeant Bash
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.10.21 01:20:00 - [170]
 

Lol yet ANOTHER Goon scam you are all falling for..

Ganga King
Posted - 2009.10.21 06:48:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Sargeant Bash
Lol yet ANOTHER Goon scam you are all falling for..


Holy ****! Are you one of the house robots? Do you like to burn things? What did you think of Craig Charles when he presented the show on BBC 2?

Yih
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.10.21 08:57:00 - [172]
 

...

I'm confused.

Sargeant Bash
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.10.21 11:40:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Ganga King
Originally by: Sargeant Bash
Lol yet ANOTHER Goon scam you are all falling for..


Holy ****! Are you one of the house robots? Do you like to burn things? What did you think of Craig Charles when he presented the show on BBC 2?


Hmmm..I can see where your name comes from..

Josh Silver
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2009.10.21 17:42:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Dzil
Hey, I'll entertain this with a more serious question:

How many directors are there in Goonswarm?


Quite a handful. But each of them has their sticky fingers in the moongoo honeypot Evil or Very Mad

A regular lowbee like me would only recognize about half of them by name, much less know what exactly they do (mostly the logistics and captials ones)

Pearre Dash
Posted - 2009.10.21 21:13:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: Arcika Toalen
Yih is Karttoon.

Just wanted to call it.


Considering Karttoon is the only one that can disband GS due to its super dictatorial nature I'd say yes.

Yih
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.10.22 12:27:00 - [176]
 

Currently talks are underway which will likely drop my need for capital down to a small portion of what it is currently, or possibly eradicate it entirely. All people who are currently invested will get their return, as well as any future investors before talks are concluded. (could be in a few hours, could be in 1-2 days)

Will keep you all apprised (investors have been internally notified with far more detail)

~Yih

Mangtoos
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.10.30 22:21:00 - [177]
 

What ever happened to this? I want to be assured my ISK is being managed properly!

How come the auditors have simply disappeared once they've taken their 500mil ISK payment?

Mangtoos
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.10.30 22:27:00 - [178]
 

Vaerah Vahrokha I demand an explanation for your corruption!

cosmoray
Perkone
Posted - 2009.10.30 22:46:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Mangtoos
What ever happened to this? I want to be assured my ISK is being managed properly!

How come the auditors have simply disappeared once they've taken their 500mil ISK payment?


I never took any payment. In fact I invested.
All I did was speak to Yih's main about his plan, and confirmed that on here.

Mangtoos
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.10.30 23:14:00 - [180]
 

Edited by: Mangtoos on 30/10/2009 23:15:28
What about Vaerah Vahrokha, were you paid out?


Pages: first : previous : ... 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 ... : last (18)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only