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blankseplocked Discussion "How to save Pirate hunting and the Bounty System"
 
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Huberek Morchu
Posted - 2009.10.16 13:30:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Huberek Morchu on 16/10/2009 13:30:06
tl;dr

Dont mine in lo sec without protection. And post in the suggestion forum next time in on of the 100 same topic threads.

B1FF
Posted - 2009.10.16 13:47:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Rells
Piracy is a coward's way to PvP. Quite simply it isnt wothe saving, nor are most pirates proficient at PvP. They hang around in lowsec pickign off carebears because they can not make it in 0.0 space without a pacifier and a warm milk bottle.

One simple solution would be to make all space either high sec or null sec. No middle ground. When confronted with the full force of true pvpers I predict most pirates would opt for trying to pull off cheese tactics in Jita.


So there's no need for a BH system? If these wanna be BH just rolled into low sec the pirate problem would disappear?

I like your idea of removing low-sec though. Worth some thought. What are the downsides?

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.10.16 13:49:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
More ideas & comments plx.


How about special intediction spheres that can be deployed in lowsec from light dictor's that ONLY prevent the warping of capsules with bounties on them.

That might make collection of bounties a little bit more amusing and actually convince the target's friends to stay and fight that little bit harder.


B1FF
Posted - 2009.10.16 13:59:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Jason Edwards
Firstly. The bounty system itself need to be refocused completely. It should be for all people in eve. Not to mention expanding it to not just only the pod death but also isk value destroyed... through insurance perhaps.


Define isk value. My Orca is worth half what I paid for it since I bought it early. Do we go from market average? Which market average? What if there are no items of that type in my region. Are we then looking at past price history? Is this way too much math to be doing on every kill? We'd have to perform the operation on the ship, every module, ammo, cargo, implants maybe if we're talking about a pod.

That's a ******* of a lot of overhead for really no end result. If bounties are "worth it" then they will be gamed. If bounties are not "worth it" then we're at the status quo. The only way for a bounty system to work is to have it be something other than cash. Which takes us back to asking CCP to say pirates bad BH good.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.10.16 14:05:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Malcanis
More ideas & comments plx.


How about special intediction spheres that can be deployed in lowsec from light dictor's that ONLY prevent the warping of capsules with bounties on them.

That might make collection of bounties a little bit more amusing and actually convince the target's friends to stay and fight that little bit harder.




That sounds over-fussy tbh, and tying bounty payout to actual ship/item loss rather than podkilling would make it superfluous.

Side note: I wonder if it would be possible that CCP could include implants in the item loss calculation for bounty payout? Rate implant value at the ISK requirement from LP stores and it would be an ISK-neutral method.

Primnproper
Posted - 2009.10.16 14:07:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Primnproper on 16/10/2009 14:08:12
The solution has already been suggested in this thread more than once.

Bounty paid should be the minimum insurance payout of the ship destroyed...

Bounty stays on target untill entire bounty fund has been payed out.

If bounty fund is less that minimum insurance payout then only the bounty fund is payed out.

Not exploitable and doesn't rely on agents, sec status etc...

As a further expansion allow sellable kill rights so you can place a bounty, sell the kill right on contract and then the person that bought it can claim the bounty even in high sec.

B1FF
Posted - 2009.10.16 14:19:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Kunming
Alright, before this thread ends up in flames, I would like to ask one thing?

CptBranko and B1FF, why are you so oppossed to the idea of an ingame mechanic for bounty hunting and a working bounty system?


Because it's pointless. Sure the in-game bounty system is a joke but there are already a ton of people out there doing what you want to do. They are given a target. They hunt. They kill. They get paid.

Quote:
Is it that you dont want valuable dev resources to be spent on something you see as trivial? (Then why dont I see you making a thread about ambulation/incarna?)


I have posted on ambulation. Extensivly.


Quote:
OR is it because you dont want to give up on being at the top of the food chain in low sec? (killing ppl in low sec, while no one is actively hunting you)


This does not reflect my position nor my play style.

Quote:
The rethoric questions aside; I think you 2 know very well that that poor miner you just turned into space dust has no means of retaliating, nor the 10 other you killed on the same day, but with a working bounty system, each could add abit of bounty according to their wallet capacity, which would slowly turn you into a lucrative target for bounty hunters.


At which point the pirate will log on his BH alt and take the money. "Haha I ganked 10 miners and I took their bounty. Newbs."

Quote:
You know very well that the victims you killed wont be able to hire mercs, even if they did, now they have to face your whole corp (wasnt you opposed to blobing?) just to get at the pirate that killed you in the first place. So, NO, the mechanics are not in place ATM, as opposed to your statement.


I have never commented on blobbing. Your premise is invalid. How is fighting their whole corp different than now? Pirates don't 1v1 their victims. They bring a bunch from their corp. If you fight someone you also fight their friends. This is true regardless of war-dec since it's low sec.

Quote:
I think, you just like your current life style, killing for a profit, knowing no one is really gonna come after you and dont want anything changed. All you do is complain about the lack of targets and when we disuccuss the posibilities to change this, you are opposed to it right away.


Then you would be wrong. Please stop trying to attack me and start attacking my position.

Quote:
K I expect alot of flaming from you now,


Disagreeing with you is not flaming. This is just an ad hominem attack.

Blackjack Turner
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2009.10.16 14:30:00 - [98]
 

Update the bounty system to be similar to the war dec system. Anyone can pick up a "bounty contract" from a station offering bounty services. This contract allows you to destroy and pod a character who's security status has dropped to a point that allows another player to place a bounty on him. The fee to obtain the bounty can be based on the bounty, maybe a percentage of the bounty. Unlike the war dec system however, the prey has no warning until he's shot at the first time that a bounty hunter is in the area. Once shot at, then the bounty hunter if unsuccessful will have a star similar to the war dec star.

If several bounty hunters are shooting a target, even if they are not in the same corp or alliance, they will be treated as though they were in a gang on a mission. That is to say the bounty gets split between them. This will create some competition amongst bounty hunters and bounty hunter corporations. The "Wanted" sign, even if a person gets their sec status back above zero is the flag. I think there should be a way to pay a large fine to remove that flag for someone who's made a mistake and gotten flagged by their victim but has worked to get their status above zero. However, that fine would only be an option once they've gotten their sec status above zero and not before.

Doing this would create a viable bounty hunting profession. Increase PvP chances for people willing to engage in piracy and those wishing to hunt those pirates down. Pirates talk about being bored. This should liven things up a bit for them.

B1FF
Posted - 2009.10.16 14:30:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Esk Esme
Edited by: Esk Esme on 16/10/2009 11:43:35
why not make it conected to the sec stat

like -1.0 = 100m payout + price of ship u killed + price your ship u lost

-2.0 = 200m payout + price of ship u killed + price your ship u lost

-3.0 = 300m payout + price of ship u killed + price your ship u lost

-4.0 = 400m payout + price of ship u killed + price your ship u lost

and so on

yes you should hav to regester as a bounty hunter say 100m for 1 month license and go through a agent and like missions gangs when u turn the mission in u get choice to share with the gang
but in this case you would b turning in the km's

this way every pierate is a potential target
pie's become the new lvl 4's YaY
just a thought
my english sux sue me
but why should the bounty hunter be penalised at all if he doing the work


Completely exploitable by self claiming the bounty.

Esk Esme
Caldari
Smack Crack and Pot
Posted - 2009.10.16 14:36:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Esk Esme on 16/10/2009 14:36:49
im not saying its perfect that would b the devs job to work out all the bugs
its a idea

and it would end the whines about ppl crying no pvp in lo-sec every 1 with a - would b a target hence bringing more pvp to lo-sec

ppl cry all time bring lvl 4's to lo-sec so others get easy ganks this idea would bring fights not easy ganks

as i said its a idea not finished product but in my eyes best way forward as sec stat would realy mean something ( U CAN BE KILLED / HUNTED )

my english sux lol sue me

Monikerina
Amarr
Macross Space Defense Squadron
The Conglomeration of Ill Advised Ideas
Posted - 2009.10.16 14:36:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Primnproper
Edited by: Primnproper on 16/10/2009 14:08:12
The solution has already been suggested in this thread more than once.

Bounty paid should be the minimum insurance payout of the ship destroyed...

Bounty stays on target untill entire bounty fund has been payed out.

If bounty fund is less that minimum insurance payout then only the bounty fund is payed out.

Not exploitable and doesn't rely on agents, sec status etc...

As a further expansion allow sellable kill rights so you can place a bounty, sell the kill right on contract and then the person that bought it can claim the bounty even in high sec.


How does this work with the disparity between tech level insurance values?

B1FF
Posted - 2009.10.16 14:42:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Blackjack Turner
Update the bounty system to be similar to the war dec system. Anyone can pick up a "bounty contract" from a station offering bounty services. This contract allows you to destroy and pod a character who's security status has dropped to a point that allows another player to place a bounty on him. The fee to obtain the bounty can be based on the bounty, maybe a percentage of the bounty. Unlike the war dec system however, the prey has no warning until he's shot at the first time that a bounty hunter is in the area. Once shot at, then the bounty hunter if unsuccessful will have a star similar to the war dec star.

If several bounty hunters are shooting a target, even if they are not in the same corp or alliance, they will be treated as though they were in a gang on a mission. That is to say the bounty gets split between them. This will create some competition amongst bounty hunters and bounty hunter corporations. The "Wanted" sign, even if a person gets their sec status back above zero is the flag. I think there should be a way to pay a large fine to remove that flag for someone who's made a mistake and gotten flagged by their victim but has worked to get their status above zero. However, that fine would only be an option once they've gotten their sec status above zero and not before.

Doing this would create a viable bounty hunting profession. Increase PvP chances for people willing to engage in piracy and those wishing to hunt those pirates down. Pirates talk about being bored. This should liven things up a bit for them.


Trivial to exploit.

Blackjack Turner
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2009.10.16 14:44:00 - [103]
 

The current bounty system is self exploitable as it stands. After a few million isk is involved, you can have a corp member or alt kill your bountied character and claim the isk.

The point is: either remove the bounty system all together, or make it so someone can actually use it as a profession. Not all pirates will self destruct. Under my system, they may actually pray for some action. I can imagine some high priced pirates actually sitting outside Jita waiting for that first volley. Even more will be people deiberately getting bountied just to be able to shoot in high sec. There'll be plenty of bounties to collect I'm sure.

ThrudUK
Caldari
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.10.16 14:47:00 - [104]
 

Now, I've only scanned through this thread.. but how about...

Players have to accept Bounty Contracts
Many players can accept the same contract
"Bounty Standing" will effect the value of the contract that can be accepted and standing increases with the successful completion of contracts.
Completion of contract means pod killing the pilot.

NOW, we stop him being killed by an alt because on completion of said contract, he loses SP in a manner similar to the T3 system. 1 skill lvl from a random skill. Any skill.

Nasty, but very interesting :)



Jerid Anathem
Posted - 2009.10.16 15:01:00 - [105]
 

Bounty System Revisions
A bounty can only be placed upon a target while you have kill rights against this target granted when in a 0.1 or higher security system. Doing so revokes your kill rights. Players who have had an active bounty within the last 24hrs may not initiate a bounty on another player. There is no upward isk limit for amount of a bounty. The final bounty price is determined by the amount of isk paid out by those initiating the bounty plus 20% for every security status point below 0.0

Bounty pay outs are at 50% of the base insurance value of the ship destroyed. In the event of a pod kill the additional payout of 50% of the cost of the clone grade plus 50% of the base cost of any implants installed in the clone. This payout is subtracted from the total bounty on the target until it is exhausted. Only players without an active bounty are eligible for this pay out and cost inflicted by players with an active bounty will not subtract against the outstanding amount.

As soon as a bounty is placed on a target all insurance contracts are revoked and reimbursed. No new insurance contracts can be established by a capsular with a bounty.

Even if an alt is used to collect a bounty the criminal will not be able to insure their ship and only collect half of the ship cost or clone cost. Essentially by “exploiting” the system you can at best half your losses. Due to the security status scaling the capsular(s) placing the bounties get far more value for their isk against blatant criminals.

Below are 2 new skills to accommodate the new system.

Bounty Hunter License
Allows for CONCORD sanctioned aggression against targets with an active bounty in systems with a security status of 0.2 or lower. Each subsequent level allows for aggression against targets with a bounty in systems with security status 0.2 higher to a maximum of 1.0 systems at level 5. Such aggression by licensed capsulars does not trigger security status penalty, a response by CONCORD nor gate / station guns firing in high or low sec. The target and their corp may retaliate freely to defend themselves. Standard aggression cooldown applied to the bounty hunter initiating the attack. If at any time you have an outstanding bounty this license is disabled.

Shady Dealings
Allows a capsular to pay out a bribe in any station with a bounty hunter agent to decrease their outstanding bounty price. Level 1 allows for a 5% decrease in outstanding bounty per isk paid in a bribe. Each subsequent level improves the decrease in outstanding bounty by 5% per isk paid to a maximum of 25%


This skill would allow a pirate to pay off nuisance low cost bounties but they will still have to pay, at a minimum, 4x what the player placing the bounty shelled out. More depending on the criminal’s security status.

Any pilot able to aggress you (by virtue of their Bounty Hunter License skill) in a system would have a badge symbol maybe it alternates blue red flashing… just as players with bounties can have the skull overview symbol. If they had an active bounty themselves this would be disabled as they can not legally aggress you. Just as irrelevant in low sec as the “low security status” icon but a lot more important for “pirates” taking a stroll through highsec.

The cost of being a pirate in low sec or a criminal in highsec mean loosing the benefit of ship insurance more often than not. It would also mean there is a chance you are not safe from aggression even in the parts of highsec your security status permits you to enter. With this mechanic bounties do not expire.

It’s not so much a means for bounty hunters to cash in and make tons of isk as a profession. It’s a means to allow “legal” bounty hunters some PvP opportunities against “pirates” and get a small bonus/incentive.

Any obvious holes or exploits? Unjust to “pirates”? Is it too small of an incentive for would be “bounty hunters” to bother?

Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Global Economy Experts
Posted - 2009.10.16 15:05:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: B1FF
Originally by: Dretzle Omega
Originally by: B1FF
But you can do this now. What is stopping you from going to low sec and shooting pirates now?


You could ask the very same question of a real bounty hunter in real life (if they still exist?). A bounty hunter isn't exactly going to just go out and shoot/capture Most Wanted fellows for the heck of it. They're doing it for the reward. Some "chance" at a loot drop wouldn't cover it.

Payback. Just like real bounty hunters.

Also, sec status loss (for those they are hunting not below -5), for one. Bounty agents handing you a mission you should be immune to sec loss for that character only, just like real bounty hunters are allowed by the law to hunt these certain people.

Some kind of high sec rules to allow the hunting may or may not be desired.


In real life we don't have spaceships. Should we remove them from the game?

Don't make AFK comparisons. They never work.

Wow. I admire your balls. You want to shoot people without repercusions, in high sec.

There are two fatal flaws with your plan.

1. As I said before shooting people for money already exists. Shooting people in highsec without repercusions already exists.

2. CCP will never give you what you're asking for above. Here's why. You're asking CCP to condem pirates. To say that pirates are bad and BH are good. They will not do that. They've stated in the past pirates are a valid play style and if you don't like it go stop them.

You already have all the tools. You're sitting here *****ing about loosing SS while there are people out in space getting paid to shoot people. Take some ownership. Go be a BH already.


1. Shooting people for money only exists in an out of game or outside of game mechanics kind of fashion. I could do that, but I don't really care to take the time to advertise out of game.

2. CCP has already said that pirates = bad. Or rather, CONCORD has. Note: They haven't said that pirating is not a valid game style. However, when you pirate you lose sec status. You then turn different colors, yellow, then red. At -5 you can't enter high sec without repercussions. Therefore, CONCORD has painted pirates as bad, even though CCP says they are a valid play style.

However, what about the 0 to -5 crowd. If I try to bounty hunt them, my sec status is screwed. -5 and below I can, but there's no incentive to. I don't get money from them unless I

(a) advertise extensively in and out of game, get clients who want to use my services

(b) there is a bounty on their head with the existing system

First option I don't care to do. For me, if I ever do something like that, bounty hunting would be more like a weekend fling or a once a month kind of thing.

The second option is broken, hence the attempt to fix it.

I didn't say I wanted to shoot people without repercusions in high sec. As you can't read, look back and see that I said it may or may not be desired. You question my balls because I throw in an option I don't really care to see just so I can cover all my bases?

Primnproper
Posted - 2009.10.16 15:09:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Monikerina
Originally by: Primnproper
Edited by: Primnproper on 16/10/2009 14:08:12
The solution has already been suggested in this thread more than once.

Bounty paid should be the minimum insurance payout of the ship destroyed...

Bounty stays on target untill entire bounty fund has been payed out.

If bounty fund is less that minimum insurance payout then only the bounty fund is payed out.

Not exploitable and doesn't rely on agents, sec status etc...

As a further expansion allow sellable kill rights so you can place a bounty, sell the kill right on contract and then the person that bought it can claim the bounty even in high sec.


How does this work with the disparity between tech level insurance values?


Well certainly in a none exploitable way, but it does mean that you wouldn't get that much more for bounty killing a hac than a cruiser.

Sadly theres no way I can think of to fix that that doesn't cause loads of holes...

Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Global Economy Experts
Posted - 2009.10.16 15:15:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: Dretzle Omega on 16/10/2009 15:20:18
*** Don't know how this got posted twice ***

Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Global Economy Experts
Posted - 2009.10.16 15:20:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: B1FF
In real life we don't have spaceships. Should we remove them from the game?

Don't make AFK comparisons. They never work.


And don't be dense and discount my ideas because I used a real life example. I used the real life example to help you wrap your head around the idea, not to support that "this should be done because this is how it works in real life".

I'm getting sick and tired of the moment any one says anything about real life people throw up their arms, say Eve != RL, and don't listen to anything that was said.

Yes, Eve != RL, but since we live in RL and not really in New Eden, comparisons can help, not to support an idea, but to illustrate a concept.

B1FF
Posted - 2009.10.16 15:29:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Dretzle Omega

1. Shooting people for money only exists in an out of game or outside of game mechanics kind of fashion. I could do that, but I don't really care to take the time to advertise out of game.


You admit it's a valid option but you're too lazy to use it. Traveling takes time. Should we remove that?

Quote:
2. CCP has already said that pirates = bad. Or rather, CONCORD has. Note: They haven't said that pirating is not a valid game style. However, when you pirate you lose sec status. You then turn different colors, yellow, then red. At -5 you can't enter high sec without repercussions. Therefore, CONCORD has painted pirates as bad, even though CCP says they are a valid play style.


CCP and Concord are distinctly different. The Amarr are pro slavery does that mean CCP is pro slavery? Seriously. You can't cross the reality/fiction line when making comparisons.

-10 and +5 are treated exactly the same by Concord. You're asking for more power than Concord has.


Quote:
However, what about the 0 to -5 crowd. If I try to bounty hunt them, my sec status is screwed. -5 and below I can, but there's no incentive to. I don't get money from them unless I


I don't see the point of sec status. -2.5 and 5 are functionally identical. Is it even possible to hit -2.5 by shooting yellows? Regardless this problem is solved by removing sec hit from shooting anyone negative. Quicker and easier.


Quote:
First option I don't care to do. For me, if I ever do something like that, bounty hunting would be more like a weekend fling or a once a month kind of thing.


Why are you asking to spend resources on something you're going to use once a month? That's a complete waste of resources.


Quote:
I didn't say I wanted to shoot people without repercusions in high sec. As you can't read, look back and see that I said it may or may not be desired.


So you don't think BH should be able to operate in high sec?

You don't think they should be immune to sec hits?


Quote:
You question my balls because I throw in an option I don't really care to see just so I can cover all my bases?


I was complimenting your balls which is very different than questioning.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.10.16 15:31:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: B1FF
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Firstly. The bounty system itself need to be refocused completely. It should be for all people in eve. Not to mention expanding it to not just only the pod death but also isk value destroyed... through insurance perhaps.


Define isk value.


I already made a suggestion as to how to do this.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.10.16 15:37:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: ThrudUK
Now, I've only scanned through this thread.. but how about...

Players have to accept Bounty Contracts
Many players can accept the same contract
"Bounty Standing" will effect the value of the contract that can be accepted and standing increases with the successful completion of contracts.
Completion of contract means pod killing the pilot.

NOW, we stop him being killed by an alt because on completion of said contract, he loses SP in a manner similar to the T3 system. 1 skill lvl from a random skill. Any skill.

Nasty, but very interesting :)





No, imposing SP loss for gamestyle choices is very bad IMO.

BenjaminBarker
Posted - 2009.10.16 15:52:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Primnproper
Edited by: Primnproper on 16/10/2009 14:08:12
The solution has already been suggested in this thread more than once.

Bounty paid should be the minimum insurance payout of the ship destroyed...

Bounty stays on target untill entire bounty fund has been payed out.

If bounty fund is less that minimum insurance payout then only the bounty fund is payed out.

Not exploitable and doesn't rely on agents, sec status etc...

As a further expansion allow sellable kill rights so you can place a bounty, sell the kill right on contract and then the person that bought it can claim the bounty even in high sec.


This. Plus one more upgrade:

Allow bounties on Corporations and Alliances.

Same payout method as above, but allow a pilot to place a shared bounty across a corp or alliance, so that any ship (or structure?) destroyed pays out.

Think unofficial merc contracts... if things are going poorly in a war, just drop a billion isk on the corp you're up against and let the bounty hunters go after them.

Heck, place a bounty on your allies and maybe an enemy that's harassing you will go after them instead.

Little Feathers
Posted - 2009.10.16 15:54:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: B1FF
At which point the pirate will log on his BH alt and take the money. "Haha I ganked 10 miners and I took their bounty. Newbs."


What if no player from the same IP Address is allowed to accept the bounty? Going beyond that, no one in their corp is allowed to either. Hell, they can't even see the bounty in the contracts area - and they can't see it in the Show Info screen. You wouldn't know there's a bounty on your head.

Just a thought.

B1FF
Posted - 2009.10.16 15:56:00 - [115]
 

Quote:
Bounty System Revisions


The bounty reduction skill has some design issues. How do you determain 5%? You have level 1 in the skill. You have a bounty placed on you. You pay down 1% of it. You have a second bounty placed on you. Can you no longer pay down the first bounty? If so then I can throw a large bounty on you followed by a 1 isk bounty to prevent you from paying it off. To solve this we have to track each bounty and it's current pay off level independantly. Huge waste of run time and storage resources.

Other than that the sytem doesn't seem exploitable but it does seem to fall into the second trap.

In many cases you're looking at the loot being more than the bounty. Which means your system is no different than we have now. If loot isn't an incentive to BH now why would it be next week?

Kaalen
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.10.16 15:57:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: Kaalen on 16/10/2009 16:00:30
Originally by: B1FF
Quote:
The rethoric questions aside; I think you 2 know very well that that poor miner you just turned into space dust has no means of retaliating, nor the 10 other you killed on the same day, but with a working bounty system, each could add abit of bounty according to their wallet capacity, which would slowly turn you into a lucrative target for bounty hunters.


At which point the pirate will log on his BH alt and take the money. "Haha I ganked 10 miners and I took their bounty. Newbs."


We're discussing a "WORKING" bounty system. A NEW system which would make "claiming" the bounty with an alt a total waste of as it wouldn't pay for the ship that had just been lost in the process, thus causing you to be worse off financially.

You have discussed how we can already do this in game, but what you are describing is mercenary work. When I put a bounty on someone it is because I want his life made a living hell and I don't care who does it as long as it gets done. The proposed fix to the currently existing system would achieve this very well I feel. It would not ruin mercenary work in any way as mercs don't tend to get hired to attack a single target, it may even make mercenary work more lucrative occasionally if your target corp has a few pirates with bounties on their heads (or more specifically, ships.).

The idea that we shouldn't bother to add or fix things as you can do this already in game is just counter-productive. with that logic we may as well get rid of alliances, corporations, fleets, the marketplace and any other mechanic which aids player interaction in any way; leaving it up to player agreement and trust alone. These features, including a working bounty system, are there to make things a little bit easier and add depth to the game. I really don't see why you're so opposed to it, honestly.

EDIT: I like the fact that the most proposed solution wouldn't require bounties to be made un-claimable by corp members, as this would allow the rare, but hilarious, chance for your "friends" to get greedy and betray you. Twisted Evil

Jerid Anathem
Posted - 2009.10.16 15:59:00 - [117]
 

The bounties pool. If you have a 10 mill then a 1 iks the total bounty is 10,000,001 isk

As I said it's more of a deturant than a means of proffit for the bounty hunter. It's just revers role playing pvp. A pirate is a "bad guy" that opperates currently in low or null sec. A bounty hunter is a "good guy" who opperates in low or high sec.

I can't think of a system with a sizeable bounty reward that is not exploitable. Only a reverse insurance scheme seemed to avoid the traps.

B1FF
Posted - 2009.10.16 16:01:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Dretzle Omega
Originally by: B1FF
In real life we don't have spaceships. Should we remove them from the game?

Don't make AFK comparisons. They never work.


And don't be dense and discount my ideas because I used a real life example. I used the real life example to help you wrap your head around the idea, not to support that "this should be done because this is how it works in real life".

I'm getting sick and tired of the moment any one says anything about real life people throw up their arms, say Eve != RL, and don't listen to anything that was said.

Yes, Eve != RL, but since we live in RL and not really in New Eden, comparisons can help, not to support an idea, but to illustrate a concept.


Stop using AFK examples to justify in game mechanics and I'll stop calling you on it.

AFK is completely meaningless. Everything has to be looked at from a game design perspective.

The point you brought up was that the rewards are good enough for you to bother PvPing.

How do you make the rewards high enough that it's worth doing yet not be exploitable?

B1FF
Posted - 2009.10.16 16:06:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Little Feathers
Originally by: B1FF
At which point the pirate will log on his BH alt and take the money. "Haha I ganked 10 miners and I took their bounty. Newbs."


What if no player from the same IP Address is allowed to accept the bounty? Going beyond that, no one in their corp is allowed to either. Hell, they can't even see the bounty in the contracts area - and they can't see it in the Show Info screen. You wouldn't know there's a bounty on your head.

Just a thought.


If you're relying on out of game methods to enforce ingame rules your system is broken.

Alts/friends don't have to be in the same corp or on the same IP.

Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Global Economy Experts
Posted - 2009.10.16 16:41:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Dretzle Omega on 16/10/2009 16:41:39
Originally by: B1FF
Stop using AFK examples to justify in game mechanics and I'll stop calling you on it.

AFK is completely meaningless. Everything has to be looked at from a game design perspective.

The point you brought up was that the rewards are good enough for you to bother PvPing.


I wasn't using AFK examples to justify in game mechanics. You failed to read my post. I was using real life examples to help you understand the concept, not to justify it.

I was looking at it from a game design perspective. The point I brought up was to provide some reward incentive, not "to bother PvPing", some reward incentive to specifically target people that others have flagged as pirates, by putting up money wanting them killed.

When I feel like PvPing I can clone jump to some friends of mine in 0.0 and join them in some fights, or roam myself, whatever. The bounty system would add a different aspect to the game. It's not just to "bother PvPing", but it's to "bother PvPing in low sec against certain targets".

Personally, as I like to play the game in an "anti-pirate" way, I don't necessarily know which characters are pirates or which pirates have been making more grief for others (all in an RP sense, of course). I could scour the forums or go trying to chat with everyone in and around low sec, but a game mechanic would be easier and more reliable.

Quote:
How do you make the rewards high enough that it's worth doing yet not be exploitable?


That's exactly the whole point of this thread. To make it not exploitable. Point out reasons why those ideas wouldn't work, but saying

Many good suggestions have come up: paying out a portion of the bounty based on value of ship (this should be somehow dynamically decided through market value, in my opinion, but I'd leave it up to CCP to balance). Alts or corp mates could still take out his ship, but they'd be losing just as much as they'd be gaining, so no real point (unless the corp mate wasn't going to share the reward :) )

Using "bounty mission agents" to hand out targets would extremely limit the chance that the mission would be handed to an alt or corp mate to exploit.


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