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blankseplocked Psudoscientific Justification For Camo Skin Designs On Spaceships
 
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skye orionis
Posted - 2009.10.12 17:58:00 - [1]
 

I've heard a lot of whining from people who have trouble with this, now without arguing the artistic merits of the design I'd like to relate to you an explanation borrowed from the novels of Iain M Banks - specificly 'Excession'

The camo like patterns that we see are actually a fractal, as you look closer at this further details emerge, the pattern extends through the structure of the ship and down to molecular resolutions. this is not merely a paint job applied to make those cutting edge ships look more fearsome, it is actually intrinsic to the security systems on the ship in question.

You see a fractal is defined by a mathematical equation, the infinite detail arises from a very compact set of equations. Furthermore, it is impossible to derive the equations simply by analyzing the patterns, even thousands of years in the future there are fundamental thermodynamic limits to computation.

Now, imagine you're scanning the structure of a ship in detail, perhaps you're trying to get some information on the design of these special navy monsters, or say you suspect there's a secret navy transponder on a ship, or a booby trap. Without knowing the details of the fractal equation you have scan the ship molecule by molecule to differentiate a feature of the fractal from an actual modification to the ship, this would take decades in a specialist scanning facility. However, if you know the mathematical definition of the camo fractal you can do a much coarser scan and simply subtract out the fractal, a standard remote scan can instantly reveal anything (undesirable or otherwise).

This is important to military operations, they can scan ships and determine that they're not carrying booby traps, transpoders, listening devices or other sensitive gear hidden inside the structure. Even as the owner of the ship, unless you have the secret sauce you cannot tell if this Raven issued to you by the Caldari Navy contains secret devices designed to keep track of these ships and their actions, or worse. You may think that being given a fancy navy ship demonstrates a degree of trust by the Navy, but in fact it is you who is trusting them even more.

Of course, this fractal camo also serves to make reverse engineering of the ships impossible, ensuring a monopoly on the supply of these ships and their blueprints. Indeed, the fractal structure encodes the ship's serial number, any illegal clones can be traced to the original blueprint copy and the manufacturing plant, nobody will risk building an illegal copy.



Kilhu Emmek
Minmatar
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2009.10.12 18:02:00 - [2]
 

"Oh, my paint job? Chicks dig it."

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.10.12 18:09:00 - [3]
 

How about this explanation:

Combat in EVE is done through sensors, not visually, so the paint scheme makes f-all difference. If the paint makes no difference, why not slap on something that looks cool?

Discrodia
Gallente
Symbiosis International
Moose Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.12 18:11:00 - [4]
 

Well I think the red paint just makes my Phobos look badass.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.10.12 18:17:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Discrodia
Well I think the red paint just makes my Phobos look badass.

And here I thought "da red wunz go fasta!"

Mr M
Posted - 2009.10.12 19:13:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Akita T
And here I thought "da red wunz go fasta!"


My rifter will so be painted red

Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar
Pragmatics
Posted - 2009.10.12 19:14:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: skye orionis
The camo like patterns that we see are actually a fractal

It's a nice idea, but they're not fractal. The blobs are very smooth, and wouldn't be classified as fractal by any of the algorithms used to estimate fractal dimension in real-world data.

If they actually made the camouflage fractal, that would be cool.

Also cool would be dazzle camouflage.

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.10.12 19:36:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
Originally by: skye orionis
The camo like patterns that we see are actually a fractal

It's a nice idea, but they're not fractal. The blobs are very smooth, and wouldn't be classified as fractal by any of the algorithms used to estimate fractal dimension in real-world data.

If they actually made the camouflage fractal, that would be cool.

Also cool would be dazzle camouflage.


The blob like patches are what's visible to the human eye with it's narrow range of sensitivity to the electromagnatic spectrum, only the broadest details are evident. Try looking at the structure much closer using other wavelengths and see the detail appear.

It's a 4 dimensional fractal defining the tomographic details in 3 spatial dimensions and the 4th being EM wavelength.

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2009.10.12 19:54:00 - [9]
 

How about I just ignore the paint job, use previous intel on the other variants and known technological limits of my enemies and figure out the weakpoints from there instead of relying on the paint scheme to try to deter me from what they're hiding. Alot simpler than trying to figure out where to a sphere shaped ship.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.10.12 19:59:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Nova Fox
How about I just ignore the paint job, use previous intel on the other variants and known technological limits of my enemies and figure out the weakpoints from there instead of relying on the paint scheme to try to deter me from what they're hiding. Alot simpler than trying to figure out where to a sphere shaped ship.


Or you could just shoot them until they explode. Then search the wreckage.

B1FF
Posted - 2009.10.12 20:10:00 - [11]
 

Psuedoscientific Justification for Shutting down Eve:

You can't break the speed of light. So we have to slow down all the ships to realistic speeds.

Oh and you can't clone either so we should remove that feature too.

Any science/reality based reasoning or basically anything not solely taking gameplay into account is FAIL.


JordanParey
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2009.10.12 20:33:00 - [12]
 

FFS, have NONE of you played Mass Effect?

SSV Normandy

Quote:
The Normandy's IES (internal emission sink) stealth system is her most notable feature. For centuries, it was assumed that starship stealth was impossible. The heat generated by routine shipboard operations is easily detectable against the absolute-zero background temperature of space. The Normandy, however, is able to temporarily "store" this heat in lithium heat sinks deep within the hull.

The IES stealth system has a few limitations. The system doesn't work during FTL flight because this blue-shifts the Normandy's emissions beyond the sinks' ability to store, and even while out of FTL, any visual scan (i.e. looking out of a window) will reveal her. However, this is rare since most ships rely on scanners rather than visual contact and spotting another ship in space is difficult.

The Normandy can go to 'silent running' for around 2-3 hours, or drift passively through a system for days before having to vent and give away her position. The stored heat must eventually be radiated, or it will build up to levels capable of cooking the crew alive.


Turn off the ship's "running lights" and use something like this, and the camoflage paintjob becomes functional.

Wouldn't it also make sense for the specialized/Navy ships to have these paintjobs and systems? It's not THAT much of a stretch...

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.10.12 20:58:00 - [13]
 

The suggestion is nothing to do with stealth, it's all about obfuscation - military ships have secret bits and pieces and having an infinitely complex structure throughout the ship makes dissecting the entity and collecting any useful data impossible.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2009.10.12 21:03:00 - [14]
 

For hiding in spacetrees.

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2009.10.12 21:04:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Mr M
Originally by: Akita T
And here I thought "da red wunz go fasta!"


My rifter will so be painted red


I hear you, brother! :)

CCP Greyscale

Posted - 2009.10.12 21:28:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: CCP Greyscale on 12/10/2009 21:29:58
Originally by: Tippia
How about this explanation:

Combat in EVE is done through sensors, not visually, so the paint scheme makes f-all difference. If the paint makes no difference, why not slap on something that looks cool?


This is pretty much what I've always assumed - you're on the overview anyway so the paint job is really just there to look cool. In the case of the various camo-pattern ships I generally assume that they're just using the color scheme of that service/corporation's standard combat fatigues. For example, when they were deciding what color to paint Gallente Navy ships, maybe they just decided "what the hell, let's paint them the same pattern that the Federal Marines wear - we paid that famous designer chick so much to come up with that look that we might as well use it everywhere we can".

(No blue bars on the thread because this is just a personal guess, and does not in any way represent any kind of "official thingy" on this subject etc etc.)

Edit: That said, I'm strangely persuaded by the "spacetrees" explanation.

z0de
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2009.10.12 21:35:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: z0de on 12/10/2009 21:35:06
I really wish they(the gallente) adopted the black/grey style from the current navy mega as standard for faction ships. Its such a better colour scheme.

Barakkus
Posted - 2009.10.12 21:39:00 - [18]
 

They should really do tie-dye ships IMO.

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.10.12 21:40:00 - [19]
 

Well you guys are the devs if you want to make it paint then you can, but, then you need to explain why people can't re-paint their ships.

Red Thunder
WEPRA CORP
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.10.12 21:46:00 - [20]
 

you're trying too hard

True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
Posted - 2009.10.12 22:09:00 - [21]
 

for the Camo paint jobs... the obvious could be.. camouflage?

Ok, so people are looking at me like an idiot, maybe we don't do this in eve, but there's a lot that happens in the lore that has no effect in-game, for camo jobs, it would make sense this is so that they can be landed in forest area's on planets and hidden better from plain sight, sounds like a pretty cool explination to me.

Barakkus
Posted - 2009.10.12 22:13:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: true sight
for the Camo paint jobs... the obvious could be.. camouflage?

Ok, so people are looking at me like an idiot, maybe we don't do this in eve, but there's a lot that happens in the lore that has no effect in-game, for camo jobs, it would make sense this is so that they can be landed in forest area's on planets and hidden better from plain sight, sounds like a pretty cool explination to me.


How are you going to land some of the ships in EVE anywhere? LOL...some of them are so weird, they couldn't land anywhere...

Nikita Alterana
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2009.10.12 22:42:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: skye orionis
The suggestion is nothing to do with stealth, it's all about obfuscation - military ships have secret bits and pieces and having an infinitely complex structure throughout the ship makes dissecting the entity and collecting any useful data impossible.



unless you use the brute force approach and simply...idk...take the armor off and look at the bits underneath.
or better yet, take it off and THEN do the super scanning.

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.10.12 22:46:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
Originally by: skye orionis
The suggestion is nothing to do with stealth, it's all about obfuscation - military ships have secret bits and pieces and having an infinitely complex structure throughout the ship makes dissecting the entity and collecting any useful data impossible.



unless you use the brute force approach and simply...idk...take the armor off and look at the bits underneath.
or better yet, take it off and THEN do the super scanning.


Note the bolded section, the camo goes throughout the interior.

Sersiously, go and read 'Excession' - you may not agree with the fractal camo justification, but you'll enjoy it immensely.

Kolatha
Posted - 2009.10.13 00:02:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Kolatha on 13/10/2009 00:03:35
The fractal pattern is an interesting idea.

A simpler explanation could be that the base armour on ship is created using a different process that leaves these discoloured patches across the surface. Much like damascus steel.

These discolourations would easily show through the standard paint job (or lack thereof on some ships) with the advanced optics of the sensor drone.

Mr M
Posted - 2009.10.13 01:25:00 - [26]
 

I'm not entirely sure about these paint jobs. Can't we just get our ships in rust as usual?

Nai Ling
Amarr
Middle Finger Technology
Posted - 2009.10.13 01:32:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Mr M
Originally by: Akita T
And here I thought "da red wunz go fasta!"


My rifter will so be painted red

Sorry man, that's called rust. Wink

Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
Posted - 2009.10.13 01:33:00 - [28]
 

The paint jobs are solely there to keep the Space Whale bulls from confusing the spaceships with cows in heat.

The video imagery obtained from the first spaceship to go into deep space unpainted was...disturbing, to say the least.

That same video is also available from all major Nugoeihuvi retail outlets for 9.99 ISK, in the Adult section.

Saxton Hale
Posted - 2009.10.13 09:01:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: B1FF
Any science/reality based reasoning or basically anything not solely taking gameplay into account is FAIL.


Yeah sure, the paintjob on a few ships is really gameplay-based.

Lan Aliere
Posted - 2009.10.13 09:42:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Lan Aliere on 13/10/2009 09:42:17
OP, I think I love you.

Excession is one of my most favourite books of all time.

Very Happy


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