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nafiy gnaw
Posted - 2009.10.08 14:39:00 - [331]
 

Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 08/10/2009 15:04:22
Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 08/10/2009 14:59:57
Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 08/10/2009 14:44:09
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Esu Nahalas
After all the years I've spent watching these forums, I'm surprised that someone who claims expertise in this matter (the op) doesn't even acknowledge that some people are carebears due to technological or time constraints.

And if the op fails to do that simple task, where else does he fail?


In essence the carebears are socialists. They demand that the game provide for them, look after them, protect them and dguarantee their life. By contrast pvpers make the world for themselves. They set their own destiny and look to accomplish things for themselves.

And that is the essential difference. Carebearing is easy and people are short circuited to do easy. However there are tons of games that do erasy. Carebears migrate from game to game and blow through the NPC content, complain a bit and then move on to do the same to the next game. By contrast the PvPer generates content through political intrigue, conquest and war.

Once upon a time in eve, the news was filled with the current events of the latest wars. Today, it is packed with CCP generated fiction because the real content generation has been all but supplanted.


You want the game to get rid of those who decides to play it a more "boring" way.You want the game to take care of your need for pvp, your greed for politics;

While you might be right that carebears are socialists, you sir, are no different.

And since you compared EvE moral to RL moral, you sir, are also a type-2 carebear, in fact, whenever a game cannot revolve around them, type-2 carebears ragequit.

And, lets just enjoy one of rells' epic quotes:

"It was a great game at one point but the reality is that it is filled with the worst filth mankind can dream up. "

Which is part of this epic troll post


kongking wang
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.08 14:47:00 - [332]
 

Edited by: kongking wang on 08/10/2009 14:49:47
some people seem to think pvp is the glue that binds eve together but misguidedly they do not realise that pvp is a tool. the tru glue is the market and everything revolves around that.

anything that will drasticly effect the market effects all in eve and hit hard enougth will ruin it beyond repair

nafiy gnaw
Posted - 2009.10.08 14:59:00 - [333]
 

Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 08/10/2009 14:59:07
doublepost

Bytemare
Posted - 2009.10.08 14:59:00 - [334]
 

After reading the entire threat which sometimes amuse me and sometimes makes me shaking my head, it feels quite useless to add something to the "PvPer vs. Carebare" discussion, but i canīt hold it back, so..

To start with iīm an empire-carebare and quite a noob as well. I understand that the OP wantīs t make me feel useless and that i have to learn PvPing or quit asap. Well, buddy this wonīt happen, as i have to admit that i love this game.

And i love it because CCP lets doing me whatever i want to do in this game. As CCP doesīnt tell me that i HAVE to be an "alliance hardcore pvp tackler" for example, it either wonīt tell me to be a "hulk halfasleep belt outminer". I can do whatever i want and so you will tell me? You must be joking!

As far as i have seen in previous posts, i feel that not 10% of the "pro pvp" posts are from "hardcore PvPers" but from griefers, suicide gankers and gate campers, running out of targets.
Is that PvP to you hopping on a paper thin retriever with a HAC and instapopp it? And it is only for the lolz couse there is no financial use to it, when CONCORD pops YOU into your pod.
Is it PvP to you running into a gate camp in low sec. with your itty5 and get tackled and popped by 5 BC?
PvP when you get probed out in your mission with your mission-fitted cruiser, send to your pod or even your clone facility by a superior force?

Well itīs not PvP to me but you might think different of it. And i have learnd to live with it as CCP allows you to do it, and its ok to me. I donīt tell you that you should NOT or leave.

This discussion will go nowhere as CCP will do the hell of f****ing up half of the p(l)ayers by giving you the rights to kill everything in front of your guns out of jita 4/4, where you will sit, waiting for a hauler to undock.

And that Sir, is why both of us will be here in one year thanks to CCP.

Nuff said.

Vanzatoarea
Posted - 2009.10.08 16:13:00 - [335]
 

grrr.....anpother thread

be whatever you want, play however you want , none of that bothers me at all

...just remove the friggin concorde alltogether

would that force you in any way to change your playstyle? you`ll still be able to mission/mine/trade/build whatever you want

CCP , remove the crutches allready , the handicaped will learn to walk eventually...most of them will...EvE will be sooo much better without concorde

oh and shadowbane was 100000x the game wow is...RIP shadowbane

Kratznotzt
Posted - 2009.10.08 16:19:00 - [336]
 

I was just sitting there carebear mining in an 0.6 area, as usual, while reading something really boring and then I had to take a bio. I released my drones and went to bathroom.

And behold! When I got back my Retriever was on 40% hull and I had made my first kill (according to the character sheet at least)!

Yup, pvp is easy! Now can I go back to being a carebear?

Oh, and how long does it take for the pvp-playership to wear off? I.e. when will I become a carebear again?

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.08 16:46:00 - [337]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 08/10/2009 16:53:58
Originally by: Vanzatoarea
be whatever you want, play however you want , none of that bothers me at all

...just remove the friggin concorde alltogether

would that force you in any way to change your playstyle? you`ll still be able to mission/mine/trade/build whatever you want

CCP , remove the crutches allready , the handicaped will learn to walk eventually...most of them will...EvE will be sooo much better without concorde

Well I have exciting news for you! CCP must have been listening because they, get this, removed Concord from Lo Sec AND 0.0!!! How cool is that?!?! I know it sounds unbelievable. So I had to go check it out myself to make sure it wasn't just some low life carebear talking trash (you know how they can be). And it IS true!!! YAY!!! \o/

Now YOU get to play the way you want and those that want to play the way they want can as well. It's a win/win! OMG!!! YAY!1! \o/


Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2009.10.08 16:47:00 - [338]
 

Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 08/10/2009 16:56:57
Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
When people say that care bears ruin a game, how do the care bears do that?
No idea, but apparently it works. Look at how much safer space has become for absolutely no useful reason.

Originally by: Emeline Cabernet
I did play back in the day. EVE is alot different. Alot of it is because Max players online when I started was 5-6-7k. And, people were *****ing back then about carebears just as they are now.

At least when a carebear annouces that they are going to quit, they actually do it.



I would say the *useful* reason was CCP's bottom line... As I stated before:

Eve-Online used to be a full on, pvp-only game. It is that no longer. When it was a pvp-only game, it topped out @ approx. 10K online, and 30K subs. In a dev-blog from the past (which I can't be arsed to go find again), it was announced that E-O became economically viable at approx. 50K subscribers.

Originally by: Vanzatoarea
...just remove the friggin concorde alltogether

would that force you in any way to change your playstyle? you`ll still be able to mission/mine/trade/build whatever you want

See above - Eve started that way. Say that to yourself again...

"EVE STARTED WITH NO CONCORD" and "CCP ADDED CONCORD".
Rolling Eyes


With all the whining in this thread, I can't wait for Dominion to be released, only to find nothing has changed in 0.0 (the big five aren't going to allow more people into their space and they're apparently incapable of adjusting or adapting their playstyle enough to attract anyone but pvp'rs...)

Six months later, the usual suspects will be here, complaining its all the care-bears fault... For not coming to 0.0 (i.e. "playing their way...").



tl;dr - eve changes, deal with it, because its not going to stop changing - maybe CCP has gone to soft, but I think with the recent video from Fan Fest "HTFU!" its pretty obvious which direction their headed into now..

Tawny Kielbasa
Posted - 2009.10.08 17:01:00 - [339]
 

ITT:

We recently discovered that we are running dangerously low on "Carebear Emo-Tears" (CBET).
Apparently the "Carebears" (CB) evolved and started avoiding the regions commonly known as "Nullsec" where we used to harvest the CBET.
Despite our sincerest efforts (eg campaigns to imply that it is everyone's DESTINY to live in "Nullsec" and promises of being useful and getting rewarded) we were forced to cut down on CBET.

Fortunately our scientists discovered a thriving population of CB in the regions known as "Highsec".
Preliminary reports indicate that this population will provide enough CBET for at least 6 months. Applying advanced farming and harvesting technology will exand that to 12 months.
The most optimistic estimations even suggest that the stream of CBET might actually never run dry.

However they also discovered a population of other entities which call themselves "CONCORD" (C). It appears these C are protecting the CB. Our researches are absolutely sure that C will render all attempts at farming the CBET in "Highsec" fruitless.

Our military experts discovered that C can be bribed so that harvesting becomes possible again.
Yet again we were struck by frustration when they found out that the CB entered into a deal with C that will ensure C's loyalty under all circumstances.


And this is was brings me here today.
We would like to ask you to look into the possibility of removing the entities called "CONCORD" (our Chief Strategic Advisor is confident that keeping the region "Highsec" will not have any adverse effects once "CONCORD" is gone).
However removing "Highsec" all together - if it is at all possible - would be our preferred solution.


We implore you!
Do not deny this most simple wish!
Let us farm those "Carebears" so we can again nurture our hardcore PVP souls!
We must not starve!



To prevent unnecessary communition overhead our Chief Strategic Advisor suggested to include additional information:

Our researchers also examined the possibility of moving to other parts of "Nullsec" to search for different sources of CBET.
Our data indicates that "Nullsec" is mainly inhabited by other hardcore PVP souls.
Studies clearly show that farming those entities is absolutely impossible and even simple harvesting is extremely difficult.
Furthermore, ancient documents suggest that harvesting hardcore PVP souls yields "Greifer Emo-Tears" (GET) which are not sweet like the CBET but in fact extremely bitter.
Our current knowledge about hardcore PVP soul anatomy is incompatible with using even slightly bitter tears for nourishment - let alone using GET.

You can see we have no other option - this is our last hope!

Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.10.08 17:15:00 - [340]
 

Perhaps CCP should remove Concord.

Perhaps CCP should remove clones and jump clones too.

Perhaps CCP should make the game into an iron man mode of play.

Then let the fun begin.

General Morters
Amarr
Posted - 2009.10.08 17:28:00 - [341]
 

Hey guys, listen! I just came up with a BRILLIANT idea.

Alright here goes:
Let's remove all sec status just for me. Let's even bring concord into low and nullsec to punish those who engage each other, except me. This means I will be able to go around and shoot ppl anywhere, and u all get concorded mwahahah

Seriously OP, besides blobs and stuff, is null sec too "hard" for ya? Why don't u ask ccp to incorporate a difficulty rating system while you're at it. Easy mode then multiplies your dps and tank by 5, while hard mode will halve both. We know what you'll be playing... I'm actually curious why an experienced player like you would ****in whine over this, you should know better right?

Also, your sub still ending in november? Does that mean you'll stop posting stupid threads? can't wait Very Happy


btw personally, I hate the word carebear. I prefer to be called a my-little-pony.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.08 18:29:00 - [342]
 

Originally by: Tawny Kielbasa
ITT:

We recently discovered that we are running dangerously low on "Carebear Emo-Tears" (CBET).
Apparently the "Carebears" (CB) evolved and started avoiding the regions commonly known as "Nullsec" where we used to harvest the CBET.
Despite our sincerest efforts (eg campaigns to imply that it is everyone's DESTINY to live in "Nullsec" and promises of being useful and getting rewarded) we were forced to cut down on CBET.

Fortunately our scientists discovered a thriving population of CB in the regions known as "Highsec".
Preliminary reports indicate that this population will provide enough CBET for at least 6 months. Applying advanced farming and harvesting technology will exand that to 12 months.
The most optimistic estimations even suggest that the stream of CBET might actually never run dry.

However they also discovered a population of other entities which call themselves "CONCORD" (C). It appears these C are protecting the CB. Our researches are absolutely sure that C will render all attempts at farming the CBET in "Highsec" fruitless.

Our military experts discovered that C can be bribed so that harvesting becomes possible again.
Yet again we were struck by frustration when they found out that the CB entered into a deal with C that will ensure C's loyalty under all circumstances.


And this is was brings me here today.
We would like to ask you to look into the possibility of removing the entities called "CONCORD" (our Chief Strategic Advisor is confident that keeping the region "Highsec" will not have any adverse effects once "CONCORD" is gone).
However removing "Highsec" all together - if it is at all possible - would be our preferred solution.


We implore you!
Do not deny this most simple wish!
Let us farm those "Carebears" so we can again nurture our hardcore PVP souls!
We must not starve!



To prevent unnecessary communition overhead our Chief Strategic Advisor suggested to include additional information:

Our researchers also examined the possibility of moving to other parts of "Nullsec" to search for different sources of CBET.
Our data indicates that "Nullsec" is mainly inhabited by other hardcore PVP souls.
Studies clearly show that farming those entities is absolutely impossible and even simple harvesting is extremely difficult.
Furthermore, ancient documents suggest that harvesting hardcore PVP souls yields "Greifer Emo-Tears" (GET) which are not sweet like the CBET but in fact extremely bitter.
Our current knowledge about hardcore PVP soul anatomy is incompatible with using even slightly bitter tears for nourishment - let alone using GET.

You can see we have no other option - this is our last hope!

Laughing
Furthermore, the lack of CBETs seems to be generating GETs.

And that explains all the pirate emo-tears lately Shocked.


Vanzatoarea
Posted - 2009.10.08 19:11:00 - [343]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 08/10/2009 16:53:58
Originally by: Vanzatoarea
be whatever you want, play however you want , none of that bothers me at all

...just remove the friggin concorde alltogether

would that force you in any way to change your playstyle? you`ll still be able to mission/mine/trade/build whatever you want

CCP , remove the crutches allready , the handicaped will learn to walk eventually...most of them will...EvE will be sooo much better without concorde

Well I have exciting news for you! CCP must have been listening because they, get this, removed Concord from Lo Sec AND 0.0!!! How cool is that?!?! I know it sounds unbelievable. So I had to go check it out myself to make sure it wasn't just some low life carebear talking trash (you know how they can be). And it IS true!!! YAY!!! \o/

Now YOU get to play the way you want and those that want to play the way they want can as well. It's a win/win! OMG!!! YAY!1! \o/




it isnt a win-win because carebearing in empire definately affects my game . It`s suposed to , you know , every action of anyone affects everyone more or less...so take your crap to some instanced piece of **** that passes for a MMO these days

eve`s appeal is in the fact that*shrugs* everyone can (should) be able to influence everyone else.....that`s hard with godmode concorde...

but yeahb ccp wants subs from parasites aswell...cant argue with that fact...i can only hope ccp will realize that parasites are just that , parasites , and they wont be here after 6 months .

EvE is alive because CCP catered to a niche that liked eve for what it was . Aiming at othe targets at the expense of the dedicated niche of players is soooooo NGE like it isnt even funny

To conclude , the abomination that is wow means nothing in the MMO scene because it isnt an MMO. Cloning it will bring nothing but failiures. ADD kiddies will allways jump from flashy gear grinder to flashy gear grinder.

optimism on : eventually this dark age will come to an end and devs will realize the mmo genere is a niche genere , and attempts at holding add kiddies interest in any single title/idea are doomed to fail

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.08 19:19:00 - [344]
 

Originally by: Vanzatoarea
but yeahb ccp wants subs from parasites aswell...cant argue with that fact...i can only hope ccp will realize that parasites are just that , parasites , and they wont be here after 6 months .

The parasites are evolving. And thanks to these mutations I am now able to last indefinitely in this game (5 years and counting). What have you to say about that?

The parasites are coming for you. And you have no where to go Twisted Evil.


Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.10.08 19:36:00 - [345]
 

Originally by: Zartanic

No, because it forces your playstlye on others. There are areas for PVP and no one suggests removing them. Also there is PVP in hi sec, plenty of it. Some PVP players seem extremely selfish when they post. Not all but its clear many cannot handle a mindset different from them or the fact people play for numerous reasons. There is no 'us' and 'them' that some like to pretend exists. That's why you will never be satisfied because what you want is impossible and even trying to attain it would be financial suicide for CCP and make the game as exciting and involved as Hello Kitty Online.


You missed my point.
Concord was added to Eve after release.
People who say it shouldn't be removed are doing so because it suits them to have that added functionality.

When I started Eve I was in a corp called Independent Manufacturers (great bunch).
They did mining and ship building and stuff, I ran defence (along with a few other "pvp" types).
I wouldn't think of any of those guys as being carebears back then - we worked together, played to our strengths, and got the job done.
No-one sat around wishing that an NPC uberforce would come and help them.
I have never lumped industialists together with carebears.

Eve was, for all its faults, a better game then. Players knew that Eve was hostile and that success came from cooperation. All "carebear" activities took place in a hostile enviroment, and that in itself provided much of the fun and made it all more rewarding.

People who call for the game mechanics to protect them and insulate them from that hostile enviroment are the people I think of carebears, and as such I agree with Rells, Eve would be better off without them.

D3F4ULT
Gallente
Pegasus Mining Korp
Posted - 2009.10.08 19:40:00 - [346]
 

People obviously don't play the market system into the equation when thinking about taking out concord or getting rid of security.

Originally by: My Econ Professor

Why does protecting private property have all of these benefits?
It motivates you to work hard. If you work hard and produce goods and services for others, they
will pay you. If you make a lot of money from working hard, you can buy stuff. You cannot count on getting to
enjoy the benefits of that hard work if your earnings, or the stuff you buy with those earning, can be taken by
others without consequence. If all a physically strong person had to do was wait for a physically weak person to
produce something and then jump them, the physically weak person would quickly realize there was no point in
producing anything. Not only would that inhibit the weak from producing valuable goods and services to
society, it would require the wasting of untold resources on protecting property. The weak would have to spend
time and effort protecting, hiding, or disguising their property. It also benefits society in that the physically
strong will actually produce something of value themselves rather than waiting to prey on the physically weak.


Carebears are not only an MMO feature, it's a truth of RL. The same economic structure plays in the game today, and if you take out rule or protection, it's like taking out a pillar of a structure. Don't look at any of these situations from your point of view and only your point of view of "wanting". You need to take aspect of every feature in the game of how it could possibly react to the change. In which sometimes is a negative turn in events. Prices would sky rocket obviously if there were no rules, you'd be paying thousands of millions of more isk to buy ships, modules, and even ammo. But those ones who become the ultimately strong at first, will do what is said above quoted.

It breaks the system. So you have to live with "carebears". They support you as you support them.

necrosia demora
Posted - 2009.10.08 20:28:00 - [347]
 

what happons without concord:

pro's

more pvp (fire at will)

con's

no more war decs (no need as will become free for all)
no more faction warfare (no need as will become free for all)
no more safe areas to trade (all areas in eve become free for all warzones with industrialists as primarys for easy money)
freighters in high sec obsolite (cannot move anywhere safely even with support)
no more missions (unsafe to do them)
massive increase in piracy (everything is attackable without repurcusions)
massive increase in griefing (no repurcusions)
massive increase in mineral costs (transport and defence cost of mining ops incresed)
massive inflation of market prices (transport and min costs increased)
tens of thousands of people forced into pvp
more people leave eve

and thats just a few.

Vanzatoarea
Posted - 2009.10.08 20:29:00 - [348]
 

Originally by: D3F4ULT
People obviously don't play the market system into the equation when thinking about taking out concord or getting rid of security.

Originally by: My Econ Professor

Why does protecting private property have all of these benefits?
It motivates you to work hard. If you work hard and produce goods and services for others, they
will pay you. If you make a lot of money from working hard, you can buy stuff. You cannot count on getting to
enjoy the benefits of that hard work if your earnings, or the stuff you buy with those earning, can be taken by
others without consequence. If all a physically strong person had to do was wait for a physically weak person to
produce something and then jump them, the physically weak person would quickly realize there was no point in
producing anything. Not only would that inhibit the weak from producing valuable goods and services to
society, it would require the wasting of untold resources on protecting property. The weak would have to spend
time and effort protecting, hiding, or disguising their property. It also benefits society in that the physically
strong will actually produce something of value themselves rather than waiting to prey on the physically weak.


Carebears are not only an MMO feature, it's a truth of RL. The same economic structure plays in the game today, and if you take out rule or protection, it's like taking out a pillar of a structure. Don't look at any of these situations from your point of view and only your point of view of "wanting". You need to take aspect of every feature in the game of how it could possibly react to the change. In which sometimes is a negative turn in events. Prices would sky rocket obviously if there were no rules, you'd be paying thousands of millions of more isk to buy ships, modules, and even ammo. But those ones who become the ultimately strong at first, will do what is said above quoted.

It breaks the system. So you have to live with "carebears". They support you as you support them.


grrr not again...not this again

dammit

all you say is true...but why NPC protection? players can prtect players

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.10.08 20:46:00 - [349]
 

Edited by: Zartanic on 08/10/2009 20:49:40
Edited by: Zartanic on 08/10/2009 20:49:20
Originally by: Vanzatoarea
Originally by: D3F4ULT
People obviously don't play the market system into the equation when thinking about taking out concord or getting rid of security.

Originally by: My Econ Professor

Why does protecting private property have all of these benefits?
It motivates you to work hard. If you work hard and produce goods and services for others, they
will pay you. If you make a lot of money from working hard, you can buy stuff. You cannot count on getting to
enjoy the benefits of that hard work if your earnings, or the stuff you buy with those earning, can be taken by
others without consequence. If all a physically strong person had to do was wait for a physically weak person to
produce something and then jump them, the physically weak person would quickly realize there was no point in
producing anything. Not only would that inhibit the weak from producing valuable goods and services to
society, it would require the wasting of untold resources on protecting property. The weak would have to spend
time and effort protecting, hiding, or disguising their property. It also benefits society in that the physically
strong will actually produce something of value themselves rather than waiting to prey on the physically weak.


Carebears are not only an MMO feature, it's a truth of RL. The same economic structure plays in the game today, and if you take out rule or protection, it's like taking out a pillar of a structure. Don't look at any of these situations from your point of view and only your point of view of "wanting". You need to take aspect of every feature in the game of how it could possibly react to the change. In which sometimes is a negative turn in events. Prices would sky rocket obviously if there were no rules, you'd be paying thousands of millions of more isk to buy ships, modules, and even ammo. But those ones who become the ultimately strong at first, will do what is said above quoted.

It breaks the system. So you have to live with "carebears". They support you as you support them.


grrr not again...not this again

dammit

all you say is true...but why NPC protection? players can prtect players



Although I can be considered a carebear the first thing I did when I upgraded my account was to form my own one man corp purely as I wanted to be wardecabble (it never happpen though) I also enjoy WH space as I can be attacked. I think scammers and suiciders are good for the game.

Now many so called care bears are like me. We do not want to full time PVP and are happy to be doing other things as well and are fine with risk (if not we would play WOW). If Concord were removed it would be a full PVP game and that is not what I signed up for so I would certainly quit as I would have limited interest in the game. Nothing to do with 'having balls' or whatever as I'm not sad enough to equate a game to real life. Only pure PVP players (including those who do NOT have alts in hi sec) would stay. This is because with all that ganking, blobs and griefing which passes for PVP in this game it would bore the pants off most of us. If PVP were even slightly balanced I'd love a full PVP EVE game but its not and never will be.

It may have worked with a few thousand players but it won't work now and it would be financial suicide for CCP. Also MANY players do both PVE and PVP, I do at least. So how do you classify us? Leachers one day and honourable heros the next? This whole classification is grossly simplified.

EDIT: If I were a purely PVP player I would also be concerned about dumbing down the content to appease those that avoid PVP and want is safer. But I really see no sign of that and even us carebears would not like it, only a vociferous few do.

Vanzatoarea
Posted - 2009.10.08 20:46:00 - [350]
 

Originally by: necrosia demora
what happons without concord:

pro's

more pvp (fire at will)

con's

no more war decs (no need as will become free for all)
no more faction warfare (no need as will become free for all)
no more safe areas to trade (all areas in eve become free for all warzones with industrialists as primarys for easy money)
freighters in high sec obsolite (cannot move anywhere safely even with support)
no more missions (unsafe to do them)
massive increase in piracy (everything is attackable without repurcusions)
massive increase in griefing (no repurcusions)
massive increase in mineral costs (transport and defence cost of mining ops incresed)
massive inflation of market prices (transport and min costs increased)
tens of thousands of people forced into pvp
more people leave eve

and thats just a few.


grrr idiot ...

missions can be done just fine in 0.0 , pve , industry ,trade , hubs , etc etc

a 100% price increase across the board wouldnt be that bad...

it just takes people playing with people not ****in NPC`s

repercutions?

go cross some uberblobyzerg in 0.0 and you`ll see repercutions

the NPC protection just takes out the layers of cooperation between players an makes the game dull and static

oh and we need new definitions : carebear is a person who would rather play with bears...teady bears whatever...instead of playing with or against other persons

everyone loves loves loves the guys doing the hauling , building , suplying the markets , and what not in 0.0 . In all honesty , everyone does. If someone can really do industry , really likes managing production and reaction chains and whatnot AND can work in a corp with other people , he`s ussualy way above carebear status

such people may be stuck in empire though because concord , while they could really put there talents to use in 0.0 and help build something more then a fat wallet in highsec

Concord kills this , it kills the "industry and economic" backbone side of empire building...because let`s face it , people eventuall(naturaly so , unless you`re masochistic) take the safest easyest path . Thats a good thing . EvE isnt about masochist searching 90% failiure odds everywhere . But here`s the catch , safety should be achieved by working with other players . At this point that is only achieved in pew-pew (blobs you all cry about) , for the rest , well , hard to offer more safety then concord...so this basicaly leaves eve`s economic side out of the sanbox and just a themepark experience with the same mindless grind.
Why would anyone try anything else when few things can beat isk/hour of the same old l4`s in highsec?

......maybe later i`ll figure out and finish this rant

dont drink and drive , smole and fly...or smoke and poast?

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.10.08 20:54:00 - [351]
 

Edited by: Zartanic on 08/10/2009 20:56:30

I can see your point and CCP does to I think. In that video they said they overbuffed Level 4's and failing to introduce motives to go to nul sec. Hopefully that will change in the next expansion. Low and Nul sec should be so attractive anyone staying in Hi Sec will be poor Cousins rather than rich Uncles. It should be done by encouraging rather than punishing though as a sub is a sub and CCP needs every penny it can get.

I'm in RvB now but before I joined I used to go to nul and low sec and failed to find anything to keep me there which was annoying.

Vanzatoarea
Posted - 2009.10.08 21:04:00 - [352]
 

Originally by: Zartanic
Edited by: Zartanic on 08/10/2009 20:56:30

I can see your point and CCP does to I think. In that video they said they overbuffed Level 4's and failing to introduce motives to go to nul sec. Hopefully that will change in the next expansion. Low and Nul sec should be so attractive anyone staying in Hi Sec will be poor Cousins rather than rich Uncles. It should be done by encouraging rather than punishing though as a sub is a sub and CCP needs every penny it can get.

I'm in RvB now but before I joined I used to go to nul and low sec and failed to find anything to keep me there which was annoying.


well 0.0 proves that people allways gravitate twards achieving safety in order to achieve goals , thus the blobs everyone whines about. They are the natural substitute for concord, and they are a normal thing . People will defend there interests . People dont want to lose there assets , so they band up and do everything to win

0.0 alone...well...try looking at it from the other side. If someone would come in the system you do your stuff in (pve , isk , manufacture , whatever) and you wouldnt have any npc`s to watch your ass , wouldnt your first action be "is he friendly?" , followed by "find and kill him so he wont kill me while i tank 832 rats" if the answer to the first is no?

Set your expectations differently : See 0.0 like empire without concord , not like some weird arena wow-style.

Yerotun
Posted - 2009.10.08 21:35:00 - [353]
 

Edited by: Yerotun on 08/10/2009 21:43:25
the risk adverse think they help the eve economy, but all they do is crash it with too much supply as they don't have a demand for the ships they build because so many risk adverse think it is a wallet game and not try to challenge themselves or their skills.

but whatevert to each their own

D3F4ULT
Gallente
Pegasus Mining Korp
Posted - 2009.10.08 22:41:00 - [354]
 

Originally by: Vanzatoarea

grrr not again...not this again

dammit

all you say is true...but why NPC protection? players can prtect players



I thought of this feature as well, but It's a feature that doesn't hold.

If I need security, I am therefore to pay for it. But with the system of players protecting players there's no Defined way of saying they have to stay there and that they will. They are able to run away with the isk i payed them, or I could pay them and a pirate could pay them also to bribe them not to protect me.

necrosia demora
Posted - 2009.10.08 23:17:00 - [355]
 

eve isnt real life but like it or not it take some things from it.

base eve on real life. now if we removed police from the civilised world(concord from high sec)then the world turns to chaos. its a fact. look at all these countrys with no decernable police'ing. chaos, genocide, dictatorship etc. do you really want this for eve.

all removing concord does is forces everyone into pvp or to leave the game. anyone who then joins after that has only 1 option. join a corp or die. being given an ultimatum on your fist day in a game isnt going to help it and saying it wont happon is small minded of you not to mention nieve. this is the inevitable outcome.

saying "oh but you can do that in a corp in 0.0 blah blah blah". so you want to turn those that wont fight into slaves to fund your own agenda. if i want to mine im gonna mine. im not going to join a corp and mine for them just because they say so. and dont say "i dont have to" because at the end of the day a player with guns is always going to win over 1 without and if anyone says no your gonna kill them.

all removing concord does is creates the chance for any pvper with enougth backing to dictate over those who cant defend themselfs. no safe havens and no escape. no one will ever be able to start a new corp because those mega corps would just crush them were ever they go. the game will probably end up with a new mega alliance who controles every system in eve.

removal of concord is not a minor change. you pvpers keep looking at the short term affects of such a drastic change. you really need to consider what the long term effects might be. you say it ruins your game but if you had your way it would be you ruining the game.

(any reference to pvpers is aimed at those iddiots that thinks the game revolves around them. all you others are ok in my books)

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.10.08 23:26:00 - [356]
 

Edited by: Zartanic on 08/10/2009 23:28:32
Originally by: Vanzatoarea
Originally by: Zartanic
Edited by: Zartanic on 08/10/2009 20:56:30

I can see your point and CCP does to I think. In that video they said they overbuffed Level 4's and failing to introduce motives to go to nul sec. Hopefully that will change in the next expansion. Low and Nul sec should be so attractive anyone staying in Hi Sec will be poor Cousins rather than rich Uncles. It should be done by encouraging rather than punishing though as a sub is a sub and CCP needs every penny it can get.

I'm in RvB now but before I joined I used to go to nul and low sec and failed to find anything to keep me there which was annoying.


well 0.0 proves that people allways gravitate twards achieving safety in order to achieve goals , thus the blobs everyone whines about. They are the natural substitute for concord, and they are a normal thing . People will defend there interests . People dont want to lose there assets , so they band up and do everything to win

0.0 alone...well...try looking at it from the other side. If someone would come in the system you do your stuff in (pve , isk , manufacture , whatever) and you wouldnt have any npc`s to watch your ass , wouldnt your first action be "is he friendly?" , followed by "find and kill him so he wont kill me while i tank 832 rats" if the answer to the first is no?

Set your expectations differently : See 0.0 like empire without concord , not like some weird arena wow-style.


Its nothing like empire without concord. If it was I'd be there right now. Either a space is empty and useless or its kos. It is good for mission running and some exploration but that's hardly PVP.

Nul sec needs a good reason to be there other than watching my back which has limited appeal. There needs to be a motive and there is none. I never feel worried there, I'm either caught or I'm not. Either way does not matter to me much. I do not want to be part of some political alliance with all the crap going on or just another cog in a big wheel being told what to do all day. I would refuse to join a blob as Id rather watch paint dry. Same for ganking or gate camping, its boring. No chance of an adrenaline rush from doing that. I would question whether those activities are PVP at all in the competitive sense which is what any game is supposed to provide.

There are many other aspects of EVE PVP I find a lot more fun. Its fine for others to enjoy it but I simply do not. A lot of nul sec PVP is a very small part of what PVP actually is or can be. Its not PVP in its pure form as it does not cover a lot of elements you would expect in a PVP game.

If nul sec were split into small, manageble corps then that would be fine but its not. Its why WH space is so popular as they are intentionally anti blob and anti gank. You do not get gate camps in WH space. So there is where you get a lot of PVP players, not nul sec. Its also why CCP seem to be trying to make changes, we will see if that works.

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2009.10.09 00:22:00 - [357]
 

It keeps going, and going, and going, and going......

Nothing outlasts a Nerf Carebears thread.ugh

Esu Nahalas
Yote Patrol
Posted - 2009.10.09 00:26:00 - [358]
 

Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Esu Nahalas
After all the years I've spent watching these forums, I'm surprised that someone who claims expertise in this matter (the op) doesn't even acknowledge that some people are carebears due to technological or time constraints.

And if the op fails to do that simple task, where else does he fail?


[]

In essence the carebears are socialists. They demand that the game provide for them, look after them, protect them and dguarantee their life. By contrast pvpers make the world for themselves. They set their own destiny and look to accomplish things for themselves.

And that is the essential difference. Carebearing is easy and people are short circuited to do easy. However there are tons of games that do erasy. Carebears migrate from game to game and blow through the NPC content, complain a bit and then move on to do the same to the next game. By contrast the PvPer generates content through political intrigue, conquest and war.

Once upon a time in eve . . . .


Oh, give me a friggin' break. I play EVE the way I can, and you call me a "carebear" because I do not play the game the way you want. Do I need to give you a primer on personal liberty before you call me a socialist again?

Go shake your cane at someone else. "Once upon a time . . . ." Laughing
What a joke.

kla samon
Posted - 2009.10.09 00:42:00 - [359]
 

Don't forget about us type 3 carebears.

We want everyone to blow everyone up, even us...

Then we get really really rich and get to drink emo tears :D

Vanzatoarea
Posted - 2009.10.09 05:43:00 - [360]
 

Originally by: D3F4ULT
Originally by: Vanzatoarea

grrr not again...not this again

dammit

all you say is true...but why NPC protection? players can prtect players



I thought of this feature as well, but It's a feature that doesn't hold.

If I need security, I am therefore to pay for it. But with the system of players protecting players there's no Defined way of saying they have to stay there and that they will. They are able to run away with the isk i payed them, or I could pay them and a pirate could pay them also to bribe them not to protect me.


so basement dweller discovers interaction with people? no pun intended...but isnt this the beauty of mmo`s? If you want npc`s stay with single players . Why do you fear multyplayer so much and keep asking for artificial scripted stuff?


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