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Luxior
Posted - 2009.10.08 03:45:00 - [301]
 

can't we all just get along?

Lotus Sutra
Caldari
Sutra Inc
Posted - 2009.10.08 04:06:00 - [302]
 

Edited by: Lotus Sutra on 08/10/2009 04:14:54
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Esu Nahalas
After all the years I've spent watching these forums, I'm surprised that someone who claims expertise in this matter (the op) doesn't even acknowledge that some people are carebears due to technological or time constraints.

And if the op fails to do that simple task, where else does he fail?


Quite the contrary. There are many alliance players with time constraints. What the carebears fail to realize is that without the protection of the game, the world wouldnt end. With those carebears now working for player run kingdoms and protected by player run nalvies, they would be able to create their own markets and items.

In essence the carebears are socialists. They demand that the game provide for them, look after them, protect them and dguarantee their life. By contrast pvpers make the world for themselves. They set their own destiny and look to accomplish things for themselves.

And that is the essential difference. Carebearing is easy and people are short circuited to do easy. However there are tons of games that do erasy. Carebears migrate from game to game and blow through the NPC content, complain a bit and then move on to do the same to the next game. By contrast the PvPer generates content through political intrigue, conquest and war.

Once upon a time in eve, the news was filled with the current events of the latest wars. Today, it is packed with CCP generated fiction because the real content generation has been all but supplanted.


People get bored with blob and nap fests. They seek out other things eventually. I mean you can only kill so many carriers and dreads and battleships in a blob before it starts to pall.

People also naturally want to be rich or how they perceive themselves to be rich, so they gravitate towards what will help them achieve those goals the easiest. People don't always have hours on end they can devote to null sec whatever to make money, so of course they will follow the easier route to do this by running missions with what little time they may have to play.

TIME is ISK. The more isk I can make per hour, is where I am going to be. Null sec just can't compete and that IS a problem. But not totally. People also have a natural desire to be safe. Null sec empires were created to make their owners safe (carebears really). If your not safe, or don't feel safe/safer then your going to tend to gravitate to where you do feel safe/safer or are safe.

Human instinct. We can't hide from or avoid it, even in a game. Humans are driven to improve their comfort zone. To expand it. To make their small section of the jungle into the safest environment they can. Human nature isn't all violent murder and mayhem, it's far more basic than even that. Human nature is driven by the need to be comfortable and safe. Violence, murder and mayhem can and will be used to make that safe zone happen if other methods are not available.

Trying to separate human instincts from a game is futile. Yes there is a line in our conscious minds that says "this is real and this is not", but our subconscious animal self doesn't make those distinctions and so our instincts will be in operation, even when we are not aware that they are and they will have an effect on what we do, see, how we act, where we go, how we perceive things etc.

Some people are able to subvert their instincts, or rise above them and reduce their effects, more often than not without knowing what they are even doing. But the true nature of mankind is to seek comfort and safety, or make it for themselves if it's not there around them. That is why you have 'carebears' and that is why you will always be an anachronism and unable to fit into the eve universe as it is naturally progressing towards comfort.


edit: I want to point out that the need to control, to have power, is just another manifestation of the human need to be comfortable and safe. People driven by those needs, find comfort in their power, their control.

Kratznotzt
Posted - 2009.10.08 06:06:00 - [303]
 

This discussion won't go anywhere before you can all agree on the terminology. There are so many different versions of "carebears" in this thread that it sounds like the "good" old cgs vs. IUPAC days (they still haven't got it right in the field of physical chemistry after more than 40 years of twinking...)

Some of the answers to good arguments in this thread sounds like you would be fightng over phlogistones or calories, or, gods forbid, even heat energy!

Start by defining what a carebear is, then agree on what pvp is. You can define several different types of pvp, like piracy, raiding and ganking, as examples. Continue by placing the industrialists and market players in their rightful place (pvp or pve, no matter which one). You don't have to like the terminology as long as you all use the same one. Then you can suddenly understand what the other person is talking about.

This thread reminds me a lot of my old discussions with a biochemist when we argued for hours before we noticed that we actually were talking about the same things, only with different name tags...

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.10.08 07:13:00 - [304]
 

Edited by: Zartanic on 08/10/2009 07:18:48
Double post.

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.10.08 07:18:00 - [305]
 

Originally by: Kratznotzt
This discussion won't go anywhere before you can all agree on the terminology. There are so many different versions of "carebears" in this thread that it sounds like the "good" old cgs vs. IUPAC days (they still haven't got it right in the field of physical chemistry after more than 40 years of twinking...)

Some of the answers to good arguments in this thread sounds like you would be fightng over phlogistones or calories, or, gods forbid, even heat energy!

Start by defining what a carebear is, then agree on what pvp is. You can define several different types of pvp, like piracy, raiding and ganking, as examples. Continue by placing the industrialists and market players in their rightful place (pvp or pve, no matter which one). You don't have to like the terminology as long as you all use the same one. Then you can suddenly understand what the other person is talking about.

This thread reminds me a lot of my old discussions with a biochemist when we argued for hours before we noticed that we actually were talking about the same things, only with different name tags...


The definition is whatever a poster's personal gripe is. There is also no definition for a lot of players who PVP and PVE quite happily. The whole discussion is stupid and not founded in reality. The vast majority of players interact in some way in the game and that's all that matters. Those that do not, well that is their choice. Everyone has their place in the game and that's that. No one's damn business how others wish to play.

Too many people telling others what to do and making unfounded assertions that their play style is the only valid one. People need to lighten up and realise this is just a game with a social wrapper, no more than that.

Namistai
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.08 07:39:00 - [306]
 

I'm the ultimate carebear when it comes to MMO games. I got a valid excuse tho: If I want true PvP I go to a lan party and play Starcraft or Quake 3.
That's where skill matters. And having 10 years of hardcore gaming behind I can assure you I kick some arse. Hell, if you want some PvP you might aswell go to some online chess site and compete. If you think you are an uber PVPer go to a next, say, FPS tournament and let them hand your behind to you. Then invest a year of training to a game of your choice and go to a tournament once again. Compete and get to top 3 of the players. Then say you are a PvPer. That is what PvP is all about. Competition. And that's why it's called sport. There's like no PvP in MMO games. Don't waste your time, play 'real' PvP games instead.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2009.10.08 07:58:00 - [307]
 

Edited by: Ban Doga on 08/10/2009 08:05:54
Edited by: Ban Doga on 08/10/2009 08:04:24
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Heroldyn
remind you, we::re are discussing about wether or not 'getting rid' of carebears would make things more expensive. you feel it would not be no:ticeable to which i disagree.
More or less, yes. The thing is, considering the (over)production capacity we have in EVE, and the changes they've recently made to mining at least to Veldspar and in particular considering the effects of Unholy Rage, I feel that the carebear element is, by and large, unnecessary. If they were all gone tomorrow (kind of how they nuked 18k accounts in one fell swoop), other parties would take over their business and do the same thing, only with a different mindset.



And that would be different - or maybe even better?
I don't really understand how the mindset affects the ore that is being mined, the item that is being built.
I even claim that you are completely unable to determine the mindset of the producer of an item when it sits in the market and waits for a purchaser.

Yet somehow this seems to be a driving thought: Replace people with a "carebear attitude" with people with a "PvP attitude" but have them do the same things.
I don't really think that would change much.

Edit: Just another thought.
When I put some minerals in the market and you buy it, can you tell whether I mined it (which you were considering as PvP) or reprocessed mission loot (which you were considering PvE)?
I know that asteroid belts are a limited resource but I also know there are always a lot of unmined asteroid belts.
IMO the "limited resource" argument is theoretically true but not actually at work here.


Another thing I find fascinating:
The argument "When rules are changed people will simply adjust and all will be okay after some time".
That thought seems to ignore the fact that some people will not continue to p(l)ay; no one is forced to stay here.



And I'd like to quote the FAQs
"In EVE you are free to choose your own destiny. You start out as a character from one of four races that inhabit the EVE universe but apart from slightly different starting skills you are free to take your character in any direction you want."

sarcasm
Unbelievable! Even CCP have no clue what the game is about... *shakes head*
/sarcasm

Emeline Cabernet
Amarr
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
Sev3rance
Posted - 2009.10.08 08:00:00 - [308]
 

I did play back in the day. EVE is alot different. Alot of it is because Max players online when I started was 5-6-7k.
And, people were *****ing back then about carebears just as they are now.

At least when a carebear annouces that they are going to quit, they actually do it.

silentalleycat
Posted - 2009.10.08 08:15:00 - [309]
 

I am sick and tired of you so called true pvpers blaming everything what is wrong in EVE on carebears.
In my opinion you probably emoraging because you got your ass handed to you by a carebear and lost your pimped up little ship, or you are just a troll.
EVE doesn't evolve soley around you, if youthink it is you nothing but a selfishand arrogant egotripper.

If you want to play in a universe for your own, I suggest you leave eve and go and play farmville or something, probably a perfect match for your level of maturity




Balthasar Moreq
Posted - 2009.10.08 08:26:00 - [310]
 

TL;DR load of l33t tears and emo rage, to the OP: gdiaf.

People can and will play EVE anyway they want and so long as its within in EULA CCP will have no problem with it. Why don't you join WoW and play on one of the PvP only servers m8, sounds like that would be more up your alley.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.10.08 08:40:00 - [311]
 

Originally by: Ban Doga
Yet somehow this seems to be a driving thought: Replace people with a "carebear attitude" with people with a "PvP attitude" but have them do the same things.
I don't really think that would change much.
It would change how the game develops. The difference isn't in the product or the process — like others, you confuse the activity with the person — but with how the person wants those processes and products to evolve. The carebear will want to reduce game functionality and make the game stale; the PvP:er will want to keep (and evolve) the dynamic nature that competition breeds, and which in turn breeds further competition.
Originally by: silentalleycat
I am sick and tired of you so called true pvpers blaming everything what is wrong in EVE on carebears.
When they're actively campaigning for removing gameplay and dynamics (which is what the whole "I want to be left alone to do my thing" boils down to), I think it's a fair criticism.

Lindsay Logan
Posted - 2009.10.08 08:41:00 - [312]
 

Originally by: Balthasar Moreq
TL;DR load of l33t tears and emo rage, to the OP: gdiaf.

People can and will play EVE anyway they want and so long as its within in EULA CCP will have no problem with it. Why don't you join WoW and play on one of the PvP only servers m8, sounds like that would be more up your alley.


Thats the opposite of OPs wishes, yoy really fail at understanding.

I can see what OP is trying to say, adn i somewhat agree that CCP has made a few bad choises latly in regards to safty on high sec dwellers.

But I thik CCP is making a right choise in Dominion. Letting players actually build their systems and improve upon them. Giving reason to go to 0.0 since it can potentially be worth a whole lot more.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.10.08 08:52:00 - [313]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Malcanis
Dont confuse Matrix Skye's hilariously dishonest characterisation of me as anything to do with reality.

Dishonest mischaracterization of you? You mean the fact you openly admit your disdain for carebears?



No, see, you're once again confusing the words you put into my mouth with the things I have actually said. You're so deep in to your propaganda that you have lost sight of the truth, and have come to believe your own lies.

If this were about real life it would be sad and frightening, but as it's only about a game it's just hilarious and pitiful.

Anyway, do carry on. You do far more to persaude people to my point of view than I could hope to.

Newbear
Posted - 2009.10.08 09:20:00 - [314]
 

I did not read the OP. But I profoundly object to anything that may have been said. Everyone should believe in the bear, for it is through bear that CCP will achieve greater market share in the MMO marketplace. PVP requires a certain apathy for human life, that although make believe, subtlety changes the psychology of the player until they become so kill crazed that they loose sight of reality. The logical conclusion to this degeneration is all of the ills in this world including the spread of avian pig flu by players who no longer care to cover their coughs in public, causing me to become ill.

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.10.08 10:03:00 - [315]
 

Edited by: Zartanic on 08/10/2009 10:06:11

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ban Doga
Yet somehow this seems to be a driving thought: Replace people with a "carebear attitude" with people with a "PvP attitude" but have them do the same things.
I don't really think that would change much.
It would change how the game develops. The difference isn't in the product or the process like others, you confuse the activity with the person but with how the person wants those processes and products to evolve. The carebear will want to reduce game functionality and make the game stale; the PvP:er will want to keep (and evolve) the dynamic nature that competition breeds, and which in turn breeds further competition.
Originally by: silentalleycat
I am sick and tired of you so called true pvpers blaming everything what is wrong in EVE on carebears.
When they're actively campaigning for removing gameplay and dynamics (which is what the whole "I want to be left alone to do my thing" boils down to), I think it's a fair criticism.



If you found your beliefs on gross oversimplification and misrepresentation then that's just silly. There is no 'carebear' mentality anymore than there is a PVP mentality, everyone's motives are far more sophisticated than that.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2009.10.08 11:08:00 - [316]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ban Doga
Yet somehow this seems to be a driving thought: Replace people with a "carebear attitude" with people with a "PvP attitude" but have them do the same things.
I don't really think that would change much.
It would change how the game develops. The difference isn't in the product or the process like others, you confuse the activity with the person but with how the person wants those processes and products to evolve. The carebear will want to reduce game functionality and make the game stale; the PvP:er will want to keep (and evolve) the dynamic nature that competition breeds, and which in turn breeds further competition.


I don't think that I confuse the person with the process.

The point I was trying to make was that you cannot really tell the difference.
All you can do is look at the products and processes; the person (especially the mindset of tht person) is not really available for your observations.

Or to be more explicit:
* when you see someone mining you cannot see why (s)he is mining
* when you buy items/minerals from the market you cannot determine how it got there
* when someone is in highsec you cannot know why
* when you buy something from me you cannot predict whether I will spend the ISK on a PvE boat or a PvP boat

So IMO arguing about the motivations of people for doing what they do by only looking at the observable results of those activities is guessing at best.


Furthermore there is another thing that bothers me.
When people say that carebears ruin a game, how do the carebears do that?
Do those people suggest that carebears have some sort of means to force a game developer to actually introduce certain changes? Are all game developers subject to that, since apparently "all MMOs out there are broken and ruined"?
Why won't the developers listen to PvPers? What do they have to change to assume the same sort of influence?


As for the "The carebear will want to reduce game functionality":
removing protection (highsec / CONCORD / Security Status / ...) is is just that; it's removing functionality.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.10.08 11:21:00 - [317]
 

Edited by: Avon on 08/10/2009 11:21:57
Originally by: Ban Doga

Do those people suggest that carebears have some sort of means to force a game developer to actually introduce certain changes?
...
As for the "The carebear will want to reduce game functionality":
removing protection (highsec / CONCORD / Security Status / ...) is is just that; it's removing functionality.

It was okay to add certain listed functionality to the game, but removing it again would be wrong?
How so?
Because it favours your playstyle?

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.10.08 11:28:00 - [318]
 

Edited by: Zartanic on 08/10/2009 11:29:25
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 08/10/2009 11:21:57
Originally by: Ban Doga

Do those people suggest that carebears have some sort of means to force a game developer to actually introduce certain changes?
...
As for the "The carebear will want to reduce game functionality":
removing protection (highsec / CONCORD / Security Status / ...) is is just that; it's removing functionality.

It was okay to add certain listed functionality to the game, but removing it again would be wrong?
How so?
Because it favours your playstyle?


No, because it forces your playstlye on others. There are areas for PVP and no one suggests removing them. Also there is PVP in hi sec, plenty of it. Some PVP players seem extremely selfish when they post. Not all but its clear many cannot handle a mindset different from them or the fact people play for numerous reasons. There is no 'us' and 'them' that some like to pretend exists. That's why you will never be satisfied because what you want is impossible and even trying to attain it would be financial suicide for CCP and make the game as exciting and involved as Hello Kitty Online.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.10.08 11:36:00 - [319]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 08/10/2009 11:42:13
Originally by: Ban Doga
I don't think that I confuse the person with the process.
You still are, as the rest of your post demonstrates. Neutral
Quote:
The point I was trying to make was that you cannot really tell the difference.
All you can do is look at the products and processes; the person (especially the mindset of tht person) is not really available for your observations.
Yes they are. Here, in this very thread.
Quote:
So IMO arguing about the motivations of people for doing what they do by only looking at the observable results of those activities is guessing at best.
…and that's why you must not confuse the two: what they do is not who they are. That's the whole point: remove carebares from the game and nothing will happen, because the things they do can be (and are being) done just as well by people without the "onoz, save me game (because I refuse to do it myself)!" attitude. It's the attitude in the player — in whichever way it is expressed — that is bad, not what the character does in-game.
Quote:
When people say that carebears ruin a game, how do the carebears do that?
No idea, but apparently it works. Look at how much safer space has become for absolutely no useful reason.
Quote:
Are all game developers subject to that, since apparently "all MMOs out there are broken and ruined"?
Not necessarily — some game developers want to cash in on that market, and that's fine. The issue I'm having is that, here we have a full-PvP game, which is marketed and such and presented as such from the intro movie and tutorials an onward, and yet, some people seem to want to remove this rather unique characteristic and make it just like the rest of the crowd. And I just can't for the life of me understand why. I've made the (far from perfect) simile before: it's a bit like if people came into CS and moaned to no end that other players are shooting them in the face, when all they want to do is raise poultry and sell carrots on CS_Italy… but if that's what they're after why not play Harvest Moon instead?

So it's not really a matter of "being subject to it" – if the stated goal is to have a PvE game, then no surprise that they listen to people who wants to remove any PvP element that snuck in…
Quote:
As for the "The carebear will want to reduce game functionality":
removing protection (highsec / CONCORD / Security Status / ...) is is just that; it's removing functionality.
No. Because none of that is removing protection — it's removing automated protection, and instead leaving it at the hands of the player. In a game that's ostensibly about player control and a player-driven universe, handing this functionality over to the players is — in essence — a good thing. Realistically, it may cause some problems that keep it from being practical, but the essential idea is the right one: keep the functionality, change the executor of it.
Originally by: Zartanic
No, because it forces your playstlye on others. There are areas for PVP and no one suggests removing them. Also there is PVP in hi sec, plenty of it.
…and there's the difference: there are people who for all intents and purposes want to remove PvP from high-sec, and that is just as much forcing a playstyle onto others because it gives an unbeatable blanket of protection that you will have to adopt yourself if you want to stay competitive (and whether the people suggesting these things realise it or not, they are competing with others).

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.08 12:07:00 - [320]
 

Facts:

-Eve is NOT dying. Instead it continues to grow.

-Eve's economy is thriving. And the devs continuosly make improvements to make it better.

-For the most part Eve's population, except maybe for the few hardcores, is content.

So, where exactly is the problem? Why are carebears needing to be exterminated? What exactly is it that needs "urgent" fixing from this damage that carebears are causing?


Shirley Serious
Amarr
The Khanid Sisters of Athra
Posted - 2009.10.08 12:39:00 - [321]
 

Originally by: Rells
Once upon a time in eve, the news was filled with the current events of the latest wars. Today, it is packed with CCP generated fiction because the real content generation has been all but supplanted.


Not really, no.

There's more CCP fiction, because they expanded their team doing that sort of thing, after a long period where there was very little (possibly because of fallout from that ISD/Aurora thing a while back).

Player generated news, there's lots of complaints about bias from the reporters, maybe they just can't get volunteers to do what is a pretty poor job. Get flak from all sides no matter what you do? That's not something that many people would want to do.

Player news is also reliant on people actually submitting things to the system. If people aren't doing that (because they think ISD is biased) then news stories won't appear.

Also, ISD had some kind of incident recently, if you look in the devblogs.

So, you are wrong. If there's less news from player events, it's not because player stuff is not being generated, it's because it's not being reported. Like Red Vs Blue. That hasn't been reported on.

Shitz
Posted - 2009.10.08 13:06:00 - [322]
 

this thread is rubbish.

if you removed concord tommorrow you would solve nothing except crash every player run market, force the majority of people into nullsec docking games and allow another big alliance to extend their napfest by 100 more systems.

its the player run, player controlled sov mechanics that are horribly broken, thats why so many people are seeking refuge in empire to escape the mind-numbing boring mechanics of alliance warfare/politics/emoraging FC's and alliances.

people pay to be entertained, just barking orders at them and telling them how they should play to satiate your own RL failings is not going to make eve a better product, people will simply seek enjoyment elsewhere and leave you even more empty space to not fight over.

kongking wang
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.08 13:30:00 - [323]
 

i want to eventually get into pvp much like a huge portion of so called carebears but if i was forced to do it prematurely i would quit and i guarentee most others would follow.

sure this game isnt about me and it certainly isnt about just pvpers.

how would you feel if ccp forced industrialism on every player in the game i.e you had to mine/reverse engineer/research and build your own gear and now had to spend most your time doing that instead of doing what you really want i.e pvp. thats what you are trying to force on carebears

Kawea
Posted - 2009.10.08 13:30:00 - [324]
 

Here is a question:

Provided CCP decides that you are right and gives you the power to ban any and all Carebear who are damaging this game, how will you go about determining, and proving, who is and who isn't one of them?

Would you give them any warnings, a chance to redeem themselves, to change their way?


kongking wang
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.08 13:35:00 - [325]
 

Originally by: Kawea
Here is a question:

Provided CCP decides that you are right and gives you the power to ban any and all Carebear who are damaging this game, how will you go about determining, and proving, who is and who isn't one of them?

Would you give them any warnings, a chance to redeem themselves, to change their way?




"you are too nice, plz kill someone imediately or be banned from the game.

ty

ccp"


lol. now how silly do you anti carebears look

Ban Doga
Posted - 2009.10.08 13:47:00 - [326]
 

Originally by: Tippia
That's the whole point: remove carebares from the game and nothing will happen, because the things they do can be (and are being) done just as well by people without the "onoz, save me game (because I refuse to do it myself)!" attitude.


If removing carebears will cause "nothing to happen" then why do people bother about it so much?

Originally by: Tippia
No idea, but apparently it works. Look at how much safer space has become for absolutely no useful reason.


I'm pretty sure CCP invested all that time thinking and developing it because they thought it was useful. Just because it isn't useful for you does not always mean it is useless for everyone else.



Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ban Doga
As for the "The carebear will want to reduce game functionality":
removing protection (highsec / CONCORD / Security Status / ...) is is just that; it's removing functionality.
No. Because none of that is removing protection it's removing automated protection, and instead leaving it at the hands of the player. In a game that's ostensibly about player control and a player-driven universe, handing this functionality over to the players is in essence a good thing. Realistically, it may cause some problems that keep it from being practical, but the essential idea is the right one: keep the functionality, change the executor of it.


It's not just automated it is certain.

Every player group can be tanked or evaded or tricked or beaten or bribed or ...
Removing highsec or CONCORD from the game will remove a unique function that cannot be guaranteed by players, namely the unconditional (as in bannable offense if avoided, no matter how) destruction of the ship while having a GCC.



Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.08 13:53:00 - [327]
 

"The second type of carebear, however, can not possibly be converted and even trying to do so is a waste of time. These people think that PvPers are psychotic raving wackos in real life. This type of carebear has difficulty separating in-game morality from out of game morality. The vast majority of pvpers are great and decent people that are playing a game and put the combat in the context of the game."

Good post in general, but this point is contentious. There's just way too many "carebear tear" collectors in the community for this to be true. Folks who get off griefing carebears give all these "sane" PvPer's a very bad image. Because of the fact that real people play all the avatars in the game (mostly anyways), you cannot simply say that morality doesn't apply in game. It does because the things that happen in game impact real life. The fact is there are many folks who enjoy causing others grief, simple as that. They hide behind this in-game morality concept, using it to excuse their behavior, when in fact they've gone and caused a real person to experience anger and frustration...and they like doing it. Thats the key thing...they like it and go out of their way to make it happen.

My take on all that is that is makes the game more exciting and dangerous, and I wouldn't change a thing, but to say that folks who enjoy causing grief to others don't have problems outside of the game is a slippery slope indeed.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.10.08 14:03:00 - [328]
 

Originally by: Ban Doga
If removing carebears will cause "nothing to happen" then why do people bother about it so much?
They don't — it's a counter-argument to the whole notion that "without carebears, EVE will die".
Quote:
It's not just automated it is certain.
Yes, but that's because it's part of a balancing mechanic: the idea that high-sec should be PvP territory, but at a cost. Functionally speaking, that part of the CONCORD role is to function as an ISK/item sink and could be shifted to other sinks, so again, removing it would not remove functionality. Again, this is a rather different thing from the opposite stance of, say, removing PvP from highsec altogether.

kongking wang
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.08 14:24:00 - [329]
 

this whole argument is a sham. its has never been about carebears. its all about pvpers feeling they are getting a hard time. fact is carebears who have nothing to do with you in anyway cannot possibly have a substantial effect on your play style. just because they are not lambs to your slaughter doesnt in anyway mean they are ruining the game

you chose your play style and so did everyone else. if your not happy then change it or addapt.

loads of pvpers have addapted and even thrive on high sec pvp. ninjas/baiters/war decs. just because your not willing to addapt doesnt make your problems anyone elses

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.08 14:31:00 - [330]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 08/10/2009 14:56:16
Originally by: kongking wang
this whole argument is a sham. its has never been about carebears. its all about pvpers feeling they are getting a hard time. fact is carebears who have nothing to do with you in anyway cannot possibly have a substantial effect on your play style. just because they are not lambs to your slaughter doesnt in anyway mean they are ruining the game

you chose your play style and so did everyone else. if your not happy then change it or addapt.

loads of pvpers have addapted and even thrive on high sec pvp. ninjas/baiters/war decs. just because your not willing to addapt doesnt make your problems anyone elses

The problem is some people thrive on the misery and grief of others for whatever reasons. They use the game to 'harvest tears' so they can feel good and happy about themselves. But when their ability to influence others starts to lose umph they start feeling grief and misery themselves. I think this is the point they're at now. Desperate cries to CCP to allow them to harvest carebear tears.

It's like you say. Some have found ways to continue to 'harvest tears' by baiting, salvaging, suiciding, and wardecing in hi sec. But others still haven't found ways to cure their inadequacies. It's Schadenfreude. And this game attracts lots of this type.



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