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Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2009.10.06 15:52:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Rells on 06/10/2009 22:08:58
I thought I would post an uncontroversial post about PvP and anti-pvpers in the context of Eve online. That way we can all understand how things work in the game and help move it to a better future. Very Happy

Sorry for the dose of hard reality but the fact is that carebears have ruined every single game they have managed to secure a hold and dominant position in. That is the simple fact of life. If we look at every single game that has tried to do PvP, the protections for carebears such as PvP flags and special areas have caused the ultimate destruction of the game and Eve is not immune. Oh it isnt dead yet but it is going that way unfortunately.

To understand this we have to look at why carebears are carebears. One type of carebear is simply a palyer with a feeling of inadequacy in combat; they feel that they will lose or have suffered setbacks and so became a carebear. These carebears can be converted with the right training and some success. The second type of carebear, however, can not possibly be converted and even trying to do so is a waste of time. These people think that PvPers are psychotic raving wackos in real life. This type of carebear has difficulty separating in-game morality from out of game morality. The vast majority of pvpers are great and decent people that are playing a game and put the combat in the context of the game. Carebears want the game company to take care of them, right the perceived wrongs of the world and be "fair" to everyone.

The pvpers, on the other hand, are universally a group that want a challenge. They want the game company out of their way other than providing tools for them to control their own world. They see safe as boring and thrive on the challenge offered from PvP. Some PvPers are just scavengers (lowsec pirates) trying to get ahead on the back of the unsuspecting but the vast majority of alliance players pvp for the challenge and the heart-thumping adrenaline that comes from defeating your fellow man. To these players rats are the personification of boredom. After you have been in 1v1 pvp fights with another equally matched opponent, nothing the computer can produce will match it.

What is interesting in this whole dynamic is that a numerous myths have appeared over the years and pushed by carebears to support turning Eve into "pillow cuddle fight online."

Myth #1: Without the carebears, the economy would be dead.

Sorry, the economy is dead. You have rampant inflation of items resulting largely from CCPs abject failure to manage the money supply in the game. The NPC purchase of player made or mined goods along with mission bonuses have turned on an infinite fountain of money supply that is akin to a real world government printing worthless money non-stop. Hyper-inflation is the result. When I started Eve people would be happy to get to their first million isk. Now that is barely enough to buy a decent gun. The economy could be fixed but it would require a drastic shift in monetary policy made by CCP and would **** off many of type 2 carebears.

Myth #2: Without the products that the carebears make, you pvpers would have nothing to fight with.

During the early stages of Eve when tech 2 was rolled out, it was impossible to produce tech 2 items in empire. You had to get the materials from 0.0 and hostile space. A nuimber of organizations went out and made fortunes for themselves and tech 2 had a massive market. I remember ordering ships from Naga (an enourmous industrial complex alliance) and loving it when they were deliverd (and this was pre-capitals as well). PvPers have always found a way to supply their interests and until about 2 years ago in the game many pvp organizations made 90% of their own gear. In AGONY we had blueprints for every tech 1 module and ship highly researched. These days with the super flood of products on the market and the safety of empire, its easy just to go to empire to buy.

To be continued below ...

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2009.10.06 15:58:00 - [2]
 

Myth #3: Pvpers are all just nasty people that cant be reasoned with; they maybe should be in jail in real life.

Of course this is vitriolic nonsense. Killing another player in a MMOG is no more evil than forcing your opponent to surrender in chess. Its a game and not real life. Most PvPers that I have ever met in real life are great people.

Myth #4: PvPers have to have billions of isk and millions of SP.

Rubbish. I and other AGONY instructors have cooperated to take out over 3000 pilots on their first pvp adventure. Many of them were only a few days old in the game. Most of them had never PvPed before. When a 4 year player is in his ceptor he is deploying roughly the same SP as a 6 month char could obtain through concentrated training. Sure he might have level 5 sharpshooting while the 6 monther might only have level 4 but the difference in actual effectiveness is small.

Myth #5: PvPers are all just nasty pirates.

Pirates are usually (though not always) pretty bad pvpers. If they werent they would be out scoring alliance pilots and getting far more bang for their antimatter ammo buck. The only kind of pirates that can fight well are alliance players that drift into low sec because of a lack of targets in 0.0. However your pirate that is on the gate day in and day out is little more than a scavenger. They retreat from anything that would pass as a real challenge and scatter like mice from cats when alliance fleets come by. The pirate is a scavenger because he preys on your mistakes and takes no chances whatsoever.

Myth #6: If they dropped security status tomorrow the game would be over.

Oh the interstellar war would be magnificent. It would solve 90% of eve's financial and density issues in a single week. Imagine what would happen. Players would have to band together for protection, all new alliances would break out, more isk would be blown up in a day that in the history of eve. Financial markets would have to spread out less they become a major focal point target. Pvp organizations would take carebear organizations under thier wing to reap the rewards of their productivity while the carebears sought protection. Couple this with real player run empires and you would have a recipie for a magnificent game. Of course it will never happen because CCP is driven not by the game anymore but by their revenue. They would lose a lot of pure type 2 carebears but the resulting game would be ground breaking in the MMOG industry.

Myth #7: The reason people congregate in high sec is that anti-pvpers outnumber pvpers!

Also untrue. The fact is that poeple congregate in high sec because it is safe and easy and because frankly there is little reason to stick to 0.0. Since the invasion of Eve carebears CCP has been steadily eroding the capabilities of 0.0 and nerfing it to oblivion or enhancing high sec to be better than 0.0. Only a few isolated areas of all of 0.0 are worth hanging around in. If you hang out in 0.0 you take the risk of having your mining op being interrupted. If that same mining op is able to be done in high sec, people go there. Furthermore, mission running has rendered most of 0.0 pointless because billions of isk that can be gained without risk in high sec. If you changed 0.0 to be unnerfed and made all of 0.0 more valuable than the best of high sec, the resulting outflow of people would be awesome.

Myth #8: You cant make money or do industry in 0.0.

This is turned into a lie by many organizations that still live full time in 0.0 except to buy things that they cant get out there. The fact is that a miner deep in alliance controlled territory in period basis is relatively safe; certainly he is much safer than the same miner in lowsec. The fact is that 0.0 is huge and most of it is empty because it is, relative to empire, worthless to fight over. In 0.0 you can make anything you can make in high sec but you incur risk.

And even more below .... I love a WOT ...

Myz Toyou
the Organ Grinder and Company
Posted - 2009.10.06 15:59:00 - [3]
 

Posting in a "Rells is still here" thread.

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:00:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Zartanic on 06/10/2009 16:03:55

They are just two different playstyles, nothing more or less. MMO's have grown up now and many players do both. Any company that does not respond to that will fail. Also all these carebears are providing subs to the game which adds to the amount of content you get.

In EVE many PVP'ers are happily killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Some seriously believe being ganked and blobbed is fun for the victim and when they run out of victims they call them 'cowards' as if a game is something more than pixels. How they think that I don't know, but that's the main reason why many players play other games for PVP or simply avoid it. So look to your own behaviour first.

EDIT: If you had read the next expansion details you would know the whole point of it is to get people out to nul sec. That will only happen if its worth doing, at the moment its not.

LordSwift
Caldari
The Riot Act
Sacra Cupola
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:01:00 - [5]
 

Please stop posting. Not everyone likes to PVP. Some people just want to mine and run missions. Why shouldnt they.
So are you willing to Build your own ships and modules and ammo. Oh wait you are hardcore pvper who thinks mining makes you a carebear.
The economy is a player run economy. No carebears means no shiny ships for you.
You speak of ordering T2 ships from another alliance. So how did they get them. Magic.
Go away troll Rolling Eyes

Korvacovak
Caldari
The Secret Army of The Twelve Monkeys
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:03:00 - [6]
 

On the flip side, what pure PvP games have succeeded? What PvP MMOs are out there that are growing? While carebearing and the excessively easy profits of Empire may be detrimental to the long term economy, the userbase is growing which doesn't fit with your statement that carebears have "ruined" every game.

Korv.

Mkiaki
Gallente
Progressive Business Solutions
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:03:00 - [7]
 

More tears, oh lovely.

Twisted Evil

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:03:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Rells on 06/10/2009 16:04:55
Myth #9: Jita is the core market of eve that eve cant live without.

Jita used to be Yulai and before that it was another system. Jita is a big central market because it is safe (minus the lag and occasional suicide ganker) and central. People come there because they know they cant be attacked and can get anything they want there. in fact Jita and Yulai and the like used to be much less safe but as CCP has gradually ramped up CONCORD, it is now mundanely safe. Interestingly enough when places like Jita were less safe there were 3 or 4 mini jitas spread throughout the galaxy. However, like electricity, people take the easiest path. Tomorrow change jita and every system in the galactic core to 0.0 and watch what happens. You will see spread out diverse markets erupt after the chaos has died down. In 6 months the idea of making a business through shipping and trade would be back.

Myth #10: PvPers require more support and resources to implement from the devs than carebears.

The simple fact is that PvPers generate their own content. The political and economic intrigue of fighting alliances keeps the pvpers going for months. The game company need only provide them tools to fight, conquer and succeed (hence theneed for player run empires). Carebears on the other hand require exxaustive scripting for missions, new types of missions, AI for rats, scripting for agents, creation of all new technology to keep them occupied and prevent them from quitting. A small amount fo work goes a long way with a pvper whereas a new type of mission keeps the carebear going just until the next patch.

Myth #11: Carebears can be coaxed out of being carebears through things like faction warfare and other transitional game play styles.

Yeah well we saw how badly that worked out. The problem is that type 2 carebears cant be convinced to fight ever and type 1 carebears are so unsure of themselves that without guidance they wont fight at all. The easiest way to create more type 1 carebears is put them in a pvp situation with questionable "pickup" fleet commanders and little organization and feed them to the wolves. The only way type 1 carebears can be lured out is through guidance and training and assimilation into a larger pro organization. So that leaves the only target for faction warfare the alliance players that are lookign for some new combat. Once they see all the rules and anti-alliance enforcements, that market is also gone. In short faction warfare was perhaps the biggest waste of time in the history of eve.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:04:00 - [9]
 

The OP is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin...


Gone'Postal
Roast and Toast Inc.
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:05:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Gone''Postal on 06/10/2009 16:06:39
Skimread results something along the lines of

PVP people don't need carebears, Your ruining our game, CCP won't stop it, and eve is dying.


Didn't you leave or something? and please stop trying to tell others how to play a game, if carebear stuff wasn't intented to be used it would not be in the game.

EDIT: Thanks for the new sig.

Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:06:00 - [11]
 


POTATO CAKES!

I'M TELLING YOU, THE SECRET IS POTATO CAKES!

If you know how to use potato cakes, you will win Eve!


RedSplat
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:06:00 - [12]
 

I like you. Embarassed

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:07:00 - [13]
 

everywhere i went, people always think their way is the right way. is this accidental or is there a pattern?

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:08:00 - [14]
 

It's not hard to grasp, PVP needs to be more fun. Nothing to do with 'type 1' or whatever player. I joined FW and it was all egomaniacs, sycophants and blobs. Zero sec is all about blobs...and bubbles. Low sec is...blobs... So if a player does not get excited by being blobbed what do you expect?

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:12:00 - [15]
 

TL;DR:
"i HaTe CAREBAREZ!!1 U RUIN MY gAmE!1! BLAH BLAH i DONT N33D U!!1 U SUK cuz i PWN J00!1! ccp PL0X MAKE DEM GO AWAY!1!"

Sigh, moar pirate tearz.


Connner
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:12:00 - [16]
 

Did you just invent Myth#9? There still are many 'mini Jita's' all over the place, Rens and Hek are two I can think of right away. To further shoot you down here. Yes people go to market hubs becuase they are safe and can get anything they want at (usually) a fair price. What do you want people to do, only shop in dangerous 0.0 black markets? Thats BS. To put things in real life perspective, you'd rather people run down to the towns red light district to pick up a load of grocerys, instead of going to your friendly supermarket where theres a smile in every isle.

I've broght this up in other topics like this before, but remember not everybody mining or running missions is a 'care bear'. Many (if not the majority) are either empire clones of PVPers running missions, or alts of pvpers mineing or running missions to fund their pvp main. Would you still call them a care bear? Logic, it seems escapes you.

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:16:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Myz Toyou
Posting in a "Rells is still here" thread.


Hmm... well whatever makes you feel better. I did psecifically state that the thread was uncontroversial. Very Happy

Originally by: Zartanic
Edited by: Zartanic on 06/10/2009 16:03:55

They are just two different playstyles, nothing more or less. MMO's have grown up now and many players do both. Any company that does not respond to that will fail. Also all these carebears are providing subs to the game which adds to the amount of content you get.


No because carebears are parasitic on a game. They suck in resources and dont generate content. They move a game to a point of unsustainability. look at Neocron for example. When it was a pure PvP game they had servers busting at the seams. As they moved towards carebearism their poulations dwindiled. Same with UO and a dozen other games.

Originally by: Zartanic
In EVE many PVP'ers are happily killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Some seriously believe being ganked and blobbed is fun for the victim and when they run out of victims they call them 'cowards' as if a game is something more than pixels. How they think that I don't know, but that's the main reason why many players play other games for PVP or simply avoid it. So look to your own behaviour first.


Carebears dont lay golden eggs. They are just resource consumers. They generate no content in the game but merely consume it.

Originally by: Zartanic
EDIT: If you had read the next expansion details you would know the whole point of it is to get people out to nul sec. That will only happen if its worth doing, at the moment its not.


Its too much fun goading people with uncontroversial posts. Very Happy Besides Im just bored at work at the moment.

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
everywhere i went, people always think their way is the right way. is this accidental or is there a pattern?


I dont go for moral relativism and I dont do well with equivocating to pacify others. I value honesty and clarity. *shrug* no one is perfect.

Originally by: Gone'Postal
Edited by: Gone''Postal on 06/10/2009 16:06:39
Skimread results something along the lines of

PVP people don't need carebears, Your ruining our game, CCP won't stop it, and eve is dying.


Didn't you leave or something? and please stop trying to tell others how to play a game, if carebear stuff wasn't intented to be used it would not be in the game.

EDIT: Thanks for the new sig.


I still have a paid account until november. If you dont like what i have to say, dont worry, you will get over it. Smile

Originally by: Zartanic
It's not hard to grasp, PVP needs to be more fun. Nothing to do with 'type 1' or whatever player. I joined FW and it was all egomaniacs, sycophants and blobs. Zero sec is all about blobs...and bubbles. Low sec is...blobs... So if a player does not get excited by being blobbed what do you expect?


That has more to do with the people yo joined than pvp itself.

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
TL;DR:
"i HaTe CAREBAREZ!!1 U RUIN MY gAmE!1! BLAH BLAH i DONT N33D U!!1 U SUK cuz i PWN J00!1! ccp PL0X MAKE DEM GO AWAY!1!"

Sigh, moar pirate tearz.




Anyone that starts a post with "TLDR" has sacrificed all intellectual capital in the debate.

Gone'Postal
Roast and Toast Inc.
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:20:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Rells

Originally by: Gone'Postal

Skimread results something along the lines of

PVP people don't need carebears, Your ruining our game, CCP won't stop it, and eve is dying.


Didn't you leave or something? and please stop trying to tell others how to play a game, if carebear stuff wasn't intented to be used it would not be in the game.

EDIT: Thanks for the new sig.


I still have a paid account until november. If you dont like what i have to say, dont worry, you will get over it. Smile



Oh I love what you have to say, I havn't laughed this much in ages.

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:23:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Rells on 06/10/2009 16:24:08
Originally by: Connner
Did you just invent Myth#9? There still are many 'mini Jita's' all over the place, Rens and Hek are two I can think of right away.


You cant seriously be comparing Rens' volume to that of Jita can you? No, I thought not. Rens is a place people go if they are annoyed to go to jita for distance because they have a lot of cash or because they hate the lag. By comparison all other markets are micro comapred to jita. What I was talkign about are equal sized markets spread about the galaxy such as we had in 2003 and 2004.

Originally by: Connner
To further shoot you down here. Yes people go to market hubs becuase they are safe and can get anything they want at (usually) a fair price. What do you want people to do, only shop in dangerous 0.0 black markets? Thats BS.


Fair price is relative to whare you are. A fair price for gasoline, for example, is different in Kuwait from Alaska. Trade is an activity where people make money playing the differences. That has all but evaporated in eve. And your second statement is laced with emotionalism and straw man arguments. Naturally 0.0 markets would only work if all markets were 0.0 and then they would have their own dynamic but then you seem to be a type 2 carebear so you wouldnt be playing most likely.

Originally by: Connner
To put things in real life perspective, you'd rather people run down to the towns red light district to pick up a load of grocerys, instead of going to your friendly supermarket where theres a smile in every isle.


Its a game. Not real life. Start with that premise and move forward. In real life I wouldnt be flying around in space shooting people and being reincarnated if I were killed either. If you cant separate the world from a game then you will have problems with the debate.

Originally by: Connner
I've broght this up in other topics like this before, but remember not everybody mining or running missions is a 'care bear'. Many (if not the majority) are either empire clones of PVPers running missions, or alts of pvpers mineing or running missions to fund their pvp main. Would you still call them a care bear? Logic, it seems escapes you.


Oh without a doubt there are a lot of empire alts. Why? because 0.0 has been nerfed to oblivion and empire has been made so profitable that there is almost nothing to be gained trying to make money in 0.0 anymore.

Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Rells

Originally by: Gone'Postal

Skimread results something along the lines of

PVP people don't need carebears, Your ruining our game, CCP won't stop it, and eve is dying.


Didn't you leave or something? and please stop trying to tell others how to play a game, if carebear stuff wasn't intented to be used it would not be in the game.

EDIT: Thanks for the new sig.


I still have a paid account until november. If you dont like what i have to say, dont worry, you will get over it. Smile



Oh I love what you have to say, I havn't laughed this much in ages.



Great, then we are all having fun. Very Happy Tghat is the way it should be.

Why dont people rad that I said it was an uncontroversial post? Very Happy

Jarna
Amarr
Air EVE
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:23:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
The OP is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin...




It's because he wants to see the game setup strictly for PvP, yet fails to realize the backstory of any game that tries to recreate, in as much as it can, has to be tied to what reality would probably be in a world such as Eve. You would have super powers that control a vast swath of space. You would also have a police force to control it.

To remove that is to make the game a giant fight club, not a representation of a life in space.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:24:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Rells
The pvpers, on the other hand, are universally a group that want a challenge...
This bit here is just priceless Shocked
You mean challenge like gatecamping challenge? Like "hey lets gank that miner" challenge? Laughing
I used to travel a certain route which was gatecamped and blobbed day in/day out by Agony Unleashed. Yeah, I could see how that could be a challenge Rolling Eyes. But yeah, carry on...


Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:24:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Rells
I thought I would post an uncontroversial post about PvP and anti-pvpers in the context of Eve online.


The sarcasm is strong with this one.

Adonis 4174
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:27:00 - [23]
 

I must have been away too long. Does Carebear now mean someone who wants pvp banned?

Josefius
Gallente
JOKAS Industries
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:28:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: LordSwift
Please stop posting. Not everyone likes to PVP. Some people just want to mine and run missions. Why shouldnt they.
So are you willing to Build your own ships and modules and ammo. Oh wait you are hardcore pvper who thinks mining makes you a carebear.
The economy is a player run economy. No carebears means no shiny ships for you.
You speak of ordering T2 ships from another alliance. So how did they get them. Magic.
Go away troll Rolling Eyes


Exactly, don't feed the Trolls.

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:31:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Rells on 06/10/2009 16:33:11
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Rells
The pvpers, on the other hand, are universally a group that want a challenge...
This bit here is just priceless Shocked
You mean challenge like gatecamping challenge? Like "hey lets gank that miner" challenge? Laughing
I used to travel a certain route which was gatecamped and blobbed day in/day out by Agony Unleashed. Yeah, I could see how that could be a challenge Rolling Eyes. But yeah, carry on...




Gate camping is just one tactic and to be brutally honest it will get you killeed in 0.0. Static deployment of power is easy to counter by another like minded organization. Some gate campers camp only highsec choke points adn lowsec systems to avoid the inevitable backlash visited upon any long duration camp in 0.0. Again those pirates camping all day are not PvPers, they are scavengers exploiting the safety of empire and the mistakes of the empire dwellers. Such scavengers inevitably flee from real pvpers.

As for gankign a miner, that miner could be a trap if he wanted to be. Your whole concept of "oh my god I was ganked" indicates that you requirethe protection of the game to make your life safe. In 0.0 I have conducted innumerable traps by setting up a poor hapless miner, waiting for the gank to come in and pouncing.

Often well feared alliance players have found themselves accidentally sitting on a gate (thought they were elsewhere) only to come back 40 min later untouched. The pirates thought he must be a trap because the last 4 guys they saw from that corp on that gate were traps. As a consequence entire fleets quickly warped away rather than engage a lone ship.

Its all in your mindset. Fi you are the victim in your mind you will be in the game. If you are the predator in your mind, you will be one in game.


Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Rells
I thought I would post an uncontroversial post about PvP and anti-pvpers in the context of Eve online.


The sarcasm is strong with this one.


Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy

*mechanical breathing sounds*

Use the farce! (or something like that)

Originally by: Jarna
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
The OP is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin...




It's because he wants to see the game setup strictly for PvP, yet fails to realize the backstory of any game that tries to recreate, in as much as it can, has to be tied to what reality would probably be in a world such as Eve. You would have super powers that control a vast swath of space. You would also have a police force to control it.

To remove that is to make the game a giant fight club, not a representation of a life in space.


I simply have dfaith in people and their ability to organize and adapt and overcome. That is in contrast to the nanny state, carebear attitude that reuqires protection from the game mechanism. I have faith in the palyers and you dont.

Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:36:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Rells
...uncontroversial...


You keep using this word, but I do not think you know what it means...

controversy
controversial


Your topic seems to be dripping with controversy, so is actually the opposite of uncontroversial. Unless I woke up in bizarro world this morning!

Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:36:00 - [27]
 



Wanting to PvP definitely takes a certain mindset which seems to be lacking in "carebears"

You have to WANT to beat the crap out of your fellow players and you need the EGO to think you can do it.

I flip flop from crazed killer to sissy carebear depending on my mood.




And that's about all the serious posting I can stand for today.





Zartanic
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:38:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Zartanic on 06/10/2009 16:43:10


The idea that carebear's are 'anti-pvper's' is so outdated. As said already many in Hi sec also PVP as their alts or clones happily do both. Also market trading, invention and production are also PVP and for many a lot more fun and complex than blobs.

I avoided PVP like the plague as gate camping and roaming for hours looking for a victim is an exercise in tedium for me, I have a lot more interesting things to do outside the game that demands my time.

CCP know all this which is why they tried FW which succeeded to some extent but is now the victim of the gank mentality (which to me is not PVP at all) and their next expansion is all about getting people to nul sec as they will make it worthwhile.

I'm in RvB now which has a different philosophy and its very popular with ex carebears. Players get more PVP than they can handle and its what ANY game is supposed to be about, fun.

If PVP players seriously believe its some sort of manhood thing and pure and 'carebears' are a bunch of sissies they really need to get out more and get laid a few times, its just a space game. Players should be able to play a game the way they want.


Hroya
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:40:00 - [29]
 

What happened to the sandbox ? Confused


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.10.06 16:48:00 - [30]
 

Rells, whilst I understand what you're saying and why you're saying it, I think you're overly pessimistic, overly prescreptive and over-generalising.

It is no secret that I have very little sympathy for people who demand ever-increasing levels of safety under the false flag of "playstyle". You can read over my forum record if you like. Hell, read the very first post I made on these forums. I have always consistently advocated maximum player freedom, minimum NPC freedom.

I would agree that around the 15 month period late 2007-to end of 2008 CCP took their eye off the ball and made several horrible strategic errors in overboosting hi-sec. However, I believe that they have recognised their error - the hints to this effect are there for anybody to read - and have begun the long, slow process of correcting it as best they can. Dominion, if it works as intended, will be a significant step in this direction. The relatively low carrying economic capacity of 0.0 has long been a legitimate objection to getting more people living in 0.0, and CCP have recognised this and taken steps to amend the situation.
Meanwhile, steps like the 11% tax rate for NPC corps are as explicit a signal as anyone could hope for that the old times of invulnerable unbalanced ISK-whoring in hi-sec are numbered. Back in the day it used to be that if you wanted to get rich, you went to 0.0. That's not the case now, but I believe that CCP want it to become that way again.

I have a huge amount of respect and gratitude for what you've done with Agony Unleashed. An invaluable service has been provided in exactly the way it should be done: in game, by players. All I'm asking from you now is one thing:


Keep the faith.


Hang in there, bro. Times are changing, and I believe for the better.


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