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blankseplocked Simple Solution to Missile Pilots Being Discriminated in Fleets
 
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12433412
Freemason Core
Posted - 2009.09.29 21:37:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: 12433412 on 29/09/2009 21:55:04
The solution is:
Give precision cruises half of the flight time and double their flight velocity.

The story:
Everybody knows missile boats are useless in larger fleets because most targets die before the missiles make it to them. With 3 t1 velocity rigs and maximum skills cruise missiles go nearly 12km/s on a raven. The average sniping distance being 150km, cruises need at least 12,5 seconds to reach the target (effectively reaching just its wreck). Doubling missile velocity would make precision ammo a viable option for fleets. As it is now, missile pilots either have to train another weapon platform or fly ecm ships to be even allowed in most fleets. A simple change to the one kind of t2 ammo could put this unjust discrimination to an end (or should cruises remain forever and ever a carebear weapon?). I think i'm speaking for many caldari pilots who chose their paths early on not knowing that one day they will be unable to participate in a major aspect of eve which is big fleet fights.

Thank you for your consideration and time.

MP

EDIT: typo

Svartkraft
Nethro Ore Conglomerate
Posted - 2009.09.29 21:59:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Svartkraft on 29/09/2009 22:00:56
In favor of this.

Pilots that pick missiles as their weapon of choice (and caldari offers plenty of ships for this path to take without the need of hybrids) should be able to bring their weapons to use in long range fleet fights. ~6 seconds delay seems reasonable for 150km range.

regards

mchief117
Posted - 2009.09.29 22:41:00 - [3]
 

/signed

XIII'th
Posted - 2009.09.29 22:43:00 - [4]
 

/signed

Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
Posted - 2009.09.29 22:49:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Serge Bastana on 29/09/2009 22:49:47
It does seem strange that a weapon system seems to get so underused in big fleets.

Why not

/signed

RansomList
Posted - 2009.09.29 22:53:00 - [6]
 

Dont fly ratting fits in fleet.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.29 23:12:00 - [7]
 

That is why Raven's either:

1. Fit for anti-support
2. Shoot at the secondary target

LTP Rolling Eyes

Sunset Rogue
Posted - 2009.09.29 23:18:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: RansomList
Dont fly ratting fits in fleet.


This.

/anti-sign.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.30 00:47:00 - [9]
 

So precision cruise can swat inties? I don't think so.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2009.09.30 00:52:00 - [10]
 

/partly signed

Good idea, and easy to implement. Supper fast frigs pilots may not like it since the missiles would be able to catch up to them.

Pan Dora
Caldari
Organization for Nuclear Research
Posted - 2009.09.30 01:12:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
/partly signed

Good idea, and easy to implement. Supper fast frigs pilots may not like it since the missiles would be able to catch up to them.


Im not sure if its easy to implement, some time ago the DEV said that experimenting with 'high speed missiles' they had issue with how the engine handle it. Sad



Kalia Masaer
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Posted - 2009.09.30 01:26:00 - [12]
 

Theoretically explosion velocity could be reduced or explosion radius increased, this would prevent the missiles being effective against small fast targets.

WarDecEvading NPCCorpAlt
Posted - 2009.09.30 02:32:00 - [13]
 

Simpler solution: Revert cruise missiles to their stats before the speed nerf.

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.09.30 05:16:00 - [14]
 

Even if you switched from Missiles to Hybrids caldari ships don't tend to get flown in PVP fleets because remote shield boosting compares poorly with report armour repairing - fixing that will make more difference.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2009.09.30 05:48:00 - [15]
 

Fly a rokh? It's a pretty good sniper boat. There are numerous problems with missiles atm, speed is not one of them.

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2009.09.30 05:51:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Valandril on 30/09/2009 05:51:28
If you want instant damage, fly gunnery ships. If you want same dmg from 0 to 255KM, use cruises. Simple as that.

You could also just l2play with missile boats, but you seem to preffer whining and crying.

sHERU
Posted - 2009.09.30 06:14:00 - [17]
 

Neutral

We popped a battle cruiser when it tried to enter the pos shields, we lost lock and no dmg was done. But the missiles that where on the way where still hitting the target.

Missile boats are a must have with pos warfare.


Naj Ymoch
Posted - 2009.09.30 06:21:00 - [18]
 

/signed

Originally by: RansomList
Dont fly ratting fits in fleet.


Missiles are more than just a 'fit', they're a tier of a skill tree all of their own. We don't have missile FITS, we have missile SHIPS.

Ned Black
Posted - 2009.09.30 07:54:00 - [19]
 

Personally I would hate facing a 150 man RR raven fleet in battle. It is not very likely that you would face that, but if you do, then if my calculations are correct you will see a new ship go down every 10-15 seconds after an initial grace period of 20-30 seconds while the first volley goes to target...

In a real situation however considering that people make mistakes that would probably not be the case, but if everyone actually targeted the primary, launch, targeted secondary, launch, target tirtiary, launch and so on then at least in theory such a fleet would be a real menace to face.

But as mentioned above. There is a difference between theory and practice... I would love trying such a fleet out however.

12433412
Freemason Core
Posted - 2009.09.30 08:08:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Pan Dora
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
/partly signed

Good idea, and easy to implement. Supper fast frigs pilots may not like it since the missiles would be able to catch up to them.


Im not sure if its easy to implement, some time ago the DEV said that experimenting with 'high speed missiles' they had issue with how the engine handle it. Sad





Well, if you look at defenders they go exactly twice as fast as cruises already. I defenders can do it why not cruises too? Although i know little about the engine mechanics to make a more educated guess.

"Fly a rokh" - that's just what you're gonna hear just about any time you say you're caldari. That is just a statement that underlines how useless missiles are in fleets (not just the short range kind of missiles, all missiles). The question is if missiles are meant to be competitive with other weapon systems - e.g. not making people focused on missiles crosstrain gunnery just that they can fully enjoy the gameplay (maybe one year later) too.

Daenosa
Ghost Festival
Posted - 2009.09.30 08:32:00 - [21]
 

gotta love the attitude of "its broke, use something that isnt and dont attempt to get it fixed"

Heres a completely random thought but would it be feasible if the target died before the missiles reached its target, the missiles would instead go for your 2nd target.

Yes you would never get hits on the primary but you would always hit the secondary target, better then nothing.
Probably a tad hard to code and added stress on the server thou

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2009.09.30 08:36:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Daenosa
gotta love the attitude of "its broke, use something that isnt and dont attempt to get it fixed"

Heres a completely random thought but would it be feasible if the target died before the missiles reached its target, the missiles would instead go for your 2nd target.

Yes you would never get hits on the primary but you would always hit the secondary target, better then nothing.
Probably a tad hard to code and added stress on the server thou
You've missed the point of "use guns". Following this crying and whining, i demand guns to be as effective in missions as missiles (no tracking issues, pickable dmg type and so on). Obviously i won't get it, and if i want same damage from 0 to 255km, i have to train for missiles.

In pure morron: guns and missiles are not the same.

Cornette
Gallente
Solar Revenue Service
TAXU
Posted - 2009.09.30 08:44:00 - [23]
 

Easy solution: Shoot secondary target

Mister Oko
Posted - 2009.09.30 08:51:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Daenosa
gotta love the attitude of "its broke, use something that isnt and dont attempt to get it fixed"

Heres a completely random thought but would it be feasible if the target died before the missiles reached its target, the missiles would instead go for your 2nd target.

Yes you would never get hits on the primary but you would always hit the secondary target, better then nothing.
Probably a tad hard to code and added stress on the server thou
You've missed the point of "use guns". Following this crying and whining, i demand guns to be as effective in missions as missiles (no tracking issues, pickable dmg type and so on). Obviously i won't get it, and if i want same damage from 0 to 255km, i have to train for missiles.

In pure morron: guns and missiles are not the same.


For missions? Try a AC vargur and then try flying a golem with either torps or cruises. The vargur gunboat will outperform the golem easily. You'll either deal with crap base damage or crap damage because everything is speedtanking you. Or just check out paladin. Whatever. So, I disregard your point. You don't know what you're talking about. Also, I don't know in what stone it is carved that there are missiles for missions and guns for fleets. Please show me.

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2009.09.30 08:55:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Mister Oko
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Daenosa
gotta love the attitude of "its broke, use something that isnt and dont attempt to get it fixed"

Heres a completely random thought but would it be feasible if the target died before the missiles reached its target, the missiles would instead go for your 2nd target.

Yes you would never get hits on the primary but you would always hit the secondary target, better then nothing.
Probably a tad hard to code and added stress on the server thou
You've missed the point of "use guns". Following this crying and whining, i demand guns to be as effective in missions as missiles (no tracking issues, pickable dmg type and so on). Obviously i won't get it, and if i want same damage from 0 to 255km, i have to train for missiles.

In pure morron: guns and missiles are not the same.


For missions? Try a AC vargur and then try flying a golem with either torps or cruises. The vargur gunboat will outperform the golem easily. You'll either deal with crap base damage or crap damage because everything is speedtanking you. Or just check out paladin. Whatever. So, I disregard your point. You don't know what you're talking about. Also, I don't know in what stone it is carved that there are missiles for missions and guns for fleets. Please show me.
In the same "i don't exist" stone, altogether with your ability to think and read.
It's easy to "insult" someone from behind of your alt, isn't it ?

12433412
Freemason Core
Posted - 2009.09.30 09:38:00 - [26]
 

That with the alt was not intentional, my deepest appologies, the forum app keeps switching me to that char.

Daenosa
Ghost Festival
Posted - 2009.09.30 10:36:00 - [27]
 

i must of missed something that made guns useless for missions then.
No one is saying make missiles the king of fleet pvp, they are just wanting missiles to actually hit its intended target before it dies.

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2009.09.30 11:01:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Daenosa
i must of missed something that made guns useless for missions then.
No one is saying make missiles the king of fleet pvp, they are just wanting missiles to actually hit its intended target before it dies.
And in the same manner I demand to not be affected by tracking or range penalties.

12433412
Freemason Core
Posted - 2009.09.30 11:07:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Daenosa
i must of missed something that made guns useless for missions then.
No one is saying make missiles the king of fleet pvp, they are just wanting missiles to actually hit its intended target before it dies.
And in the same manner I demand to not be affected by tracking or range penalties.


Valandril, you might have missed the fact that this is the "Features and Ideas" thread. Not an "I Demand" thread. Nobody cares what you want. If you have anything constructive to say to the topic, please, do so. Otherwise, do me a kindness, stop spamming my thread.

AsheraII
Posted - 2009.09.30 11:11:00 - [30]
 

Simply allow the pilot to "relock" a missile. If a missile is fired and the pilot locks his missile launcher onto another target, any missiles currently flying that are launched from that specific launcher will go after the newly locked target of that launcher instead, whether the old target is down or not.

If the new target is out of range for the missile, it will simply fly as far as possible to reach it before either exploding or fizzling.

Relocking would also open up new features for electronic warfare: abilities to hack into missiles and give them new targets for example, or anti-missile decoys.

Overall, this would lead to 3 types of missileguidance:
1) Smart, which are self locking/guiding, FoF fills that department now.
2) Homing, which is similar to the "normal" missiles now, and which may not arrive on time at the target.
3) Guided, which would be a new type of missiles that can switch target as described above, but which could also be hacked. For these, the current missile velocity would be roughly ideal, while they would also remove the need for faster missiles from the homing missile department.

So each missile filling its own niche, each having its own benefits and drawbacks.


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