open All Channels
seplocked Skill Discussions
blankseplocked [eb] - eveboard.com
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 ... : last (30)

Author Topic

Ravenal
The Fated
E.Y
Posted - 2009.10.19 22:51:00 - [151]
 

Originally by: Amateratsu

Sooner or later we are all gonna have to train our skills up to higher levels, and i don't think we should be penalised for doing so...


no, I am a skillho. I like having for example doomsday operation but i havent the slightest interest in getting it to lvl1.

imo I think non lvl5 skill categories should not be categories at all... but if they are gonna stay there then there is only one correct way to count them... otherwise you are cheating players that do want those skills there for a reason.

If those categories stay, and you want go get a high global rank ... then I guess you have a reason to train skills in those categories to get a better rank.

Amateratsu
Caldari
The Pegasus Project
Posted - 2009.10.19 23:09:00 - [152]
 


Your currently on 382 out 390 skills, your going to reach a point where you have no other skills availlable other than the level 0 - 3's.

You gonna stop training at that point and wait for more skills to be added to the game? or train up those lower level skills?Very Happy

On another note, a link to the full catagory list from your pilot ranks would be very usefullCool


Viggen
Posted - 2009.10.19 23:15:00 - [153]
 

Bug Report: Drahcir Nasom - 11 Learning skills trained, for a total of 5,376,023 skillpoints. <- Not possible.

Dr Caymus
Gallente
Applied Technologies Inc
Agents of Fortune
Posted - 2009.10.19 23:39:00 - [154]
 

Edited by: Dr Caymus on 20/10/2009 04:39:00
Originally by: Viggen
Bug Report: Drahcir Nasom - 11 Learning skills trained, for a total of 5,376,023 skillpoints. <- Not possible.


Possible at one time, and not unusual among 10^8 characters. There was a bug early on that, if you tilted your computer just right, kept skills tallying after level 5 completed.

Actually, if I remember right, the bug dates back to maybe 2 or 3 months after the game's launch. If you tried to start training a skill immediately after another skill completed a level of training, the just completed skill would continue to accumulate points (even if it had already reached level 5) instead of the new skill (I don't believe the points were duplicated). Drahcir caught on to the problem quickly, stopped the training and reset the desired skill, resulting in an overrun of just 23 points. I have a skill that overran by several thousand points because I didn't notice it for a couple of days. Many examples of this were seen at Sara's showroom site, and I'm sure we'll soon see more examples here.


Ravenal
The Fated
E.Y
Posted - 2009.10.20 01:10:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Amateratsu

Your currently on 382 out 390 skills, your going to reach a point where you have no other skills availlable other than the level 0 - 3's.

You gonna stop training at that point and wait for more skills to be added to the game? or train up those lower level skills?Very Happy

On another note, a link to the full catagory list from your pilot ranks would be very usefullCool



I'll continue training of course. I'm not leaving those lvl 0 - 3s because of some oog epeen site, I'm not training them atm because they don't fit my plan.

Amateratsu
Caldari
The Pegasus Project
Posted - 2009.10.20 08:53:00 - [156]
 


It appears we have a rogue Character that has slipped through the net and risen to the #1 spot of the global ranking dispite being only 4 months old.

This should not have happened as a character that young should be ranked near bottom and be recieving a much larger value in the characters "no data" catagory's.

I believe a dynamic value that decreases as you progress up the ranks is the way to go, but perhaps using rank position is the wrong attribute to use as it is a self boosting value in that as you move up the ranks the value decreases boosting you further up the ranks, decreasing the value fruther and so on....

Thats possibly how this 4 month char has risen to the top. curious that the char is anonymous too.

I'll leave it up to Chribba to decide if he wants to end the test and revert back to the previous value for "no data" ranks.

Will try to redeem myself and think of a better way.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2009.10.20 09:36:00 - [157]
 

Actually hiding your info shouldn't matter or not, the problem however is that the global rank is computed at the time when you refresh your own ranks, thus making the sheet private - only you can recalculate the ranks.

There however is a bug with new characters as you saw, it ended up at #1 since its ranks where never calculated, once I refreshed it down the ranks went.

I'm still trying to locate the source of that error.

Amateratsu
Caldari
The Pegasus Project
Posted - 2009.10.20 09:49:00 - [158]
 

Edited by: Amateratsu on 20/10/2009 09:50:32
Originally by: Chribba
Actually hiding your info shouldn't matter or not, the problem however is that the global rank is computed at the time when you refresh your own ranks, thus making the sheet private - only you can recalculate the ranks.

There however is a bug with new characters as you saw, it ended up at #1 since its ranks where never calculated, once I refreshed it down the ranks went.

I'm still trying to locate the source of that error.


Kewl, i did wonder as even with the self boosting effect the char should not have risen straight to #1.

So hopefully its just a matter of ironing out the bugs and we'll have a working systemSmile

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2009.10.20 10:06:00 - [159]
 

Edited by: Chribba on 20/10/2009 10:54:23

I'm trying to see if it will be possible to have the global rank generated out of the cached ranks rather than counting it upon a rank refresh. That way it should become more accurate, and also display live rankings rather than 10 minute old.

update;
Now the global ranking is your average rank in each of the categories tracked, with a penalty of 1000 points for non-ranked categories (subject to change). The ranking is also updated on-the-fly when ranks are generated, so it should not be needed to refresh one's rankings page to get the ranks (still needing to verify the case with non-public sheets).

As for the +/- on standings, I could throw in a penalty on either side as that might give a better overall value than using the current ranks (since there tend to be more + than - for example (but I think this change would be very nominal either way).

Also what could be made from the standings, is to calculate a value based on the actual standing as well Eg having higher dosperado would get calculated like (Rank*10)/9.00, thus his points added for that category would be like 1*10/9 => 1.11 points, as per some other random guy who has maybe like 2.12 standing (358*10)/2.12 (if his rank was 358) = 1688.68 points would be added to his score. Or anything in those lines?

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.10.20 13:41:00 - [160]
 

The average SP / member in the corps section is a bit meh!

Ravenal
The Fated
E.Y
Posted - 2009.10.20 16:39:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Chribba

Also what could be made from the standings, is to calculate a value based on the actual standing as well Eg having higher dosperado would get calculated like (Rank*10)/9.00, thus his points added for that category would be like 1*10/9 => 1.11 points, as per some other random guy who has maybe like 2.12 standing (358*10)/2.12 (if his rank was 358) = 1688.68 points would be added to his score. Or anything in those lines?

If I understand you correctly this would widen the gap between players in favor of higher ranked chars? ... Standings rank should just use faction standings and normal ordering, 0.0 standings if none exist for that faction just as no data should be 0.

In the case of lvl 0, 1, 2, 3 and 4 skills having no data... a "penalty" is fairer than ranking at bottom. IMO it should be a good thing to have no skills at those levels with reduced "chances" of that being the case for higer lvl skills.

Also you cant hide that so no one is cheating there. So... I suggest that having "no data" for lvl 0 skills = 10 point penalty, lvl1 = 50 point penalty, lvl2 = 100, lvl3 = 500 and lvl4 = 1000... or dynamically placing the player lower. like assume no data for lvl 0 = 10% from top, lvl1 = 20% from top... etc.

This means it's a "good" thing to have no data for low level skills, but not the "best" thing. Penalizing the other categories (the ones that can be hidden and whole skill categories, like subsystems) by 1000 is fine.

Ravenal
The Fated
E.Y
Posted - 2009.10.20 16:54:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: RaTTuS
The average SP / member in the corps section is a bit meh!

Yeh, is there no way to get how many people are in the corp total?

Amateratsu
Caldari
The Pegasus Project
Posted - 2009.10.20 21:00:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: Chribba
As for the +/- on standings, I could throw in a penalty on either side as that might give a better overall value than using the current ranks (since there tend to be more + than - for example (but I think this change would be very nominal either way).

Also what could be made from the standings, is to calculate a value based on the actual standing as well Eg having higher dosperado would get calculated like (Rank*10)/9.00, thus his points added for that category would be like 1*10/9 => 1.11 points, as per some other random guy who has maybe like 2.12 standing (358*10)/2.12 (if his rank was 358) = 1688.68 points would be added to his score. Or anything in those lines?


Are you refering to the security status ranks here?
If so i'm not sure i understand what you are trying to achieve here?
Some clarification would be niceVery Happy (sorry been a long day at work and i'm tiredConfused)

Lukka
Posted - 2009.10.20 22:34:00 - [164]
 

tbh, the highest attributes categories are pretty irrelevant post-apocrypha. Ranking based on them is even worse since there are doubtlessly thousands of people in eve that have the exact same 33/26 for int/mem or perc/will, and should all be ranked #1. Having a category with a thousand #1s is pretty lolworthy and having someone ranked #999 and having the same stats as #1 is just frustrating. Either way, it's pointless.

It would have been interesting pre-apocrypha, but the concept is obsolete now.

Amateratsu
Caldari
The Pegasus Project
Posted - 2009.10.21 08:06:00 - [165]
 

Edited by: Amateratsu on 21/10/2009 08:06:58
Originally by: Lukka
Stuff about Attribute ranks.


You can hide your attributes if you feel those ranks are not worth anythingVery Happy

Originally by: Ravenal
In the case of lvl 0, 1, 2, 3 and 4 skills having no data... a "penalty" is fairer than ranking at bottom. IMO it should be a good thing to have no skills at those levels with reduced "chances" of that being the case for higer lvl skills.

Also you cant hide that so no one is cheating there. So... I suggest that having "no data" for lvl 0 skills = 10 point penalty, lvl1 = 50 point penalty, lvl2 = 100, lvl3 = 500 and lvl4 = 1000..


I like this idear of a reduced fixed penalty for "no data" in the "by level" ranks, It is a good compormise and will probably be easier to implement.

And Congratulations on passing 1000 pilots registered on eveboardVery Happy

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.10.21 08:25:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Lukka
tbh, the highest attributes categories are pretty irrelevant post-apocrypha. Ranking based on them is even worse ...

I actually think that the global ranking should not be based on these as
1) we all start with 39
2) the additions are already counted in the learning category
3) so this means they are scored on the implant's

Viggen
Posted - 2009.10.21 11:12:00 - [167]
 

Are the skills isk value ranks displaying correctly?

Example:-
I have the exact same skills as Tripoli except I dont have the titan skills. Now the 4 titan skills I dont have cost 19.8bil, but if you add that to my skills value I only go up to 26,603,719,500. But Trips is showing 28,803,719,500.
Over 2 Bil isk difference Confused

Drahcir Nasom
Independent Manufacturers
Independent Manufacturers Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.21 19:44:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Viggen
Bug Report: Drahcir Nasom - 11 Learning skills trained, for a total of 5,376,023 skillpoints. <- Not possible.


Actually I have 2 groups that could happen in because I have 256023 points in Learning skill and 512017 points in Hull Upgrades.

I think it comes from the time where you got points not only from your training but also from actions you did in game, so if you flew a Dominix for example you got a few points in Gallente BS. I know it's sad, but I started recording my SP in each skill at any DT I'm logged on into a spreadsheet back on 5th July 2003, so I have a record of the SP I "earned" by doing things. I'm not sure where the extra 23 SP in Learning came from, according to the spreadsheet I already had that when I started recording, but the extra 17 SP in Hull Upgrades seems to come from a time when I was flying round collecting up a huge load of stuff that had been bought cheap on the markets in almost every system in the 7 central regions, and I was constantly swapping Overdrives, Expanders and Nanofibers on my Mammoth. I never actually trained Hull Upgrades, I got it to lvl 5 purely by doing things, and once I worked out how it worked, I "earned" the last 315K SP for it in 9 days (66,500 SP in one day and 64,288 on another) while simultaneously training other skills. That was the reason CCP stopped the earning system on 17/12/03, people had learned how to abuse it.

Drahcir

Amateratsu
Caldari
The Pegasus Project
Posted - 2009.10.21 20:39:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Viggen
Are the skills isk value ranks displaying correctly?

Example:-
I have the exact same skills as Tripoli except I dont have the titan skills. Now the 4 titan skills I dont have cost 19.8bil, but if you add that to my skills value I only go up to 26,603,719,500. But Trips is showing 28,803,719,500.
Over 2 Bil isk difference Confused


I believe the eb db has the Titan skills priced at 5,500,000,000 rather than 4,950,000,000 which they actually cost ingame.

EveMon has them at 5.5b as well, dunno why.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2009.10.21 20:59:00 - [170]
 

Edited by: Estel Arador on 21/10/2009 20:59:33
Originally by: Amateratsu
I believe the eb db has the Titan skills priced at 5,500,000,000 rather than 4,950,000,000 which they actually cost ingame.

EveMon has them at 5.5b as well, dunno why.



The site (and EveMon) probably use the base value of the skill books. The NPC price of all stuff sold by NPCs varies with demand, things which are in low demand will drop in price up to 10% below their base value. Almost all skills are actually sold at that bottom price 10% below their base value.
Note that the prices reset to base value with patches/expansions. If you're aiming to buy the Titan skill books, you should do so before a patch or some time after a patch, but never shortly after a patch.

Viggen
Posted - 2009.10.21 22:50:00 - [171]
 

Ahh thanks guys for clearing that up.. thats another thing I love about this game, no matter how long I've been playing I still learn new things :)

Drahcir, thats interesting about the earning skillpoints back in the day, I never knew that happened. I started 21/11/03, just before that ability was taken away then, damn, I always curse myself for not starting the game back in May 03 Crying or Very sad.

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2009.10.22 00:03:00 - [172]
 

In actuality, I spent a pretty penny buyng up some of the rare skills which I'm betting have a very low base price. Even with the Titan skills showing as overpriced, I'm sure I've actually spent over 30 billion on skills. Oh, and the Titan skill books used to be 4.5 billion at one point, then went up to 4.95 billion...shortly before I bought them. Rolling Eyes

RaVeN Revenge
Posted - 2009.10.22 08:07:00 - [173]
 

My alt is in some top 10's . Can you stop registrations now please Wink

Seriously though , Awsome site . Not just good , but awsome . nice work , and thanks Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy

Amateratsu
Caldari
The Pegasus Project
Posted - 2009.10.22 08:10:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Tripoli
In actuality, I spent a pretty penny buyng up some of the rare skills which I'm betting have a very low base price. Even with the Titan skills showing as overpriced, I'm sure I've actually spent over 30 billion on skills. Oh, and the Titan skill books used to be 4.5 billion at one point, then went up to 4.95 billion...shortly before I bought them. Rolling Eyes


Not just the rare (removed) skillbooks either, i'm betting all the non-npc sold books have a baseprice far far lower than what the players sell them for.Very Happy

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2009.10.22 09:08:00 - [175]
 

on the global rank... lol

So now I changed it to only calculate overall rank based upon;

Skillpoints, Number of skills, Number of Lv5, 4 and 3 skills, all individual skill category (mechanic, industry etc), number of certificates, number of elite certificates, ISK and skill value.

Comments?

What I fear with this is that only top SP chars land in most categories. Also unranked get a 1000 point penalty atm.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2009.10.22 09:09:00 - [176]
 

I bought many of the [agent-division] connections skills when they still were loot drops instead of NPC seeded. The loot dropped skills were sold for like 80M-100M. Then CCP seeded them for 10M a piece...

Amateratsu
Caldari
The Pegasus Project
Posted - 2009.10.22 09:41:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: Chribba
on the global rank... lol

So now I changed it to only calculate overall rank based upon;

Skillpoints, Number of skills, Number of Lv5, 4 and 3 skills, all individual skill category (mechanic, industry etc), number of certificates, number of elite certificates, ISK and skill value.

Comments?

What I fear with this is that only top SP chars land in most categories. Also unranked get a 1000 point penalty atm.


Lol bit drastic?Shocked

Seriously tho, yeah in time the ranks will end up being dominated by high sp players...

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2009.10.22 10:49:00 - [178]
 

@A, yeah, walking in the dark here trying out various ways. Either way it's a good test to see how the ranks can be calculated in "real-time" with only minor changes, that way I can add/remove categories on the fly if needed.

So while not perfect, it's a good test, which hopefully narrows down the path a bit Very Happy

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.10.22 12:05:00 - [179]
 

I'd love to see the ability to see the rankings limited to just your corporation.

Also yay for my corp being number 1 in SP!

Bytemare
Posted - 2009.10.22 13:04:00 - [180]
 

This, dear Sir, is AWESOME! \o/

Bytemare


Pages: first : previous : ... 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 ... : last (30)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only