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blankseplocked Story of a “good-fellow” in the rules of CCP.
 
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baltec1
Posted - 2009.09.25 22:50:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: baltec1 on 25/09/2009 22:50:21
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Resire Honore
Just an information, even in '"' as you propably see.


Anyone else just think of Jenny Spitfire when trying to read this?
Jenny spitfire Could spell a whole lot better. It was more of a grammar issue there Cool


One of them at least used the wrong wordsRazz

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.09.25 22:51:00 - [32]
 


Assuming for a second this is NOT a troll (and my "common sense" is tingling on that one... nobody can be THAT idiotic and reach such a position of power in EVE, or can it?), the player formerly known as "X" got exactly what he deserved for being an utter tool. Oh, and "Y" should have kept all the stuff as punishment for "X" being a moron that gives so many rights to random newbies.

But since this is almost certainly a troll, I'm going to say :
"3/10 : Almost believable, but not controversial enough"

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2009.09.25 22:51:00 - [33]
 

I thought the IEEE was supposed to handle things like this... Joe is getting old and this looks to be good material. Slackers :P.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2009.09.25 22:55:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/09/2009 22:55:39
Originally by: Janusz Rvn
Some of my friends were playing in EVE, a loot… Over 3 years of playing and paying. That’s was an honest and trustfully character… Let’s name his “X”.
Them in his corporation (where hi was a one of oldest and important players), join noob, lets name his “Y”. As a helpful person “X” help younger mate as hi can… info’s, skills, even borrowing of own stuff.
Some time later, corp bosses discovered that “Y” uses boots to play on one of his alt… so by the corp rules alt was expelled for a corp. sad story… but this is only a beginning.
After that’s incident, “Y” felt himself very resentful – “nobody can tell my how I should play!”. Normal player in situation like this leaving corp, and find more accurate companion…
But “Y” has an other idea of “rules”. He took a loot of BPO for corp hangars, put offline couple POS’es (2 in middle of production mother ships), stole POS parts, BPO and anything what hi can. Most of BPO was owned by “X” (All of them worth over 25B ISK), so “X” use his skill (using known e-mail) to check who hi is, and send to him information, some like this:
“You not anonymous in net. You name is “X” and you live at “X – home”, so please give my BPO back”.
“Y” returned all (or almost all – cause hi can’t return minerals and parts for 2 Nyxs) to “X”. All problems solved…
Not really… Here is CCP…
After couple days… All “X” account was banned… Reason “Braking EULA rules”… That’s was all available information’s. So “X” write an e-mail to CCP: “What’s happened?”… And receive answer:
“One of player (supposable “Y”) told us you treat him in RL so hi must give you all his BPO”.

So “X” lost 4 characters (all of them with over a 50 mil SP) because “one of player…”. CCP don’t even try do explain situation or inform one of conflict sides about incident. They KNOW what’s heapend, maybe “Y” was a CEO of CCP or maybe his uncle is a cleaner on second floor on main CCP building? Who knows? Only one thing is solid, “Y” told a truth and only truth.

I’m old player too, my main char has over 70m sp, and I play and pay over 3 years. As I suppose, based on CCP GM’s rules my account will be banned to, after that’s post, but I’m not sorry. If in this community thieves and layer’s doing by the “rules”… I should seek accurate companion.


Assuming this is not trolling:
(a) You gave a newbie roles to do all that? Why? Also, when you want to boot someone you first remove the roles and then boot him.
(b) You do not, ever, in any cirrumstances, utter something which resembles a RL threat. It's the banstick for that.
(c) When someone is using bots on a alt, you can petition him for that, and he'll get the ban himself.

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.26 01:24:00 - [35]
 

I think peopl are missing the Op's point.

What did CCP do to make sure that X actually DID send said email and threaten to do harm to Y in real life?

If they just took Y's word for it then that is plan wrong. And if it was an email sent from some random name (which most people have) what is to say that Y didn't make up a yahoo name and send to himself a threating email to frame X and get him banned?

You do see how this could be missused?
How did CCP prove that X sent it?

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.26 01:37:00 - [36]
 

As far fetched as this may sound.

Maybe Y thought up this plan of getting X banned AND getting his stuff back as theft in Eve is legal and CCP might have given all those BPO's back after the ban. CCP might think, "Y must be innocent because he did give all those BPO's back after he got the threatening email."

The point is that in RL you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Maybe X really did do it. But unless CCP really did have iron clad proof, if I were X, I would push this all the way to the CEO of CCP and tell them give me back my characters.

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.09.26 01:50:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Zartanic on 26/09/2009 01:56:02



Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
As far fetched as this may sound.

Maybe Y thought up this plan of getting X banned AND getting his stuff back as theft in Eve is legal and CCP might have given all those BPO's back after the ban. CCP might think, "Y must be innocent because he did give all those BPO's back after he got the threatening email."

The point is that in RL you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Maybe X really did do it. But unless CCP really did have iron clad proof, if I were X, I would push this all the way to the CEO of CCP and tell them give me back my characters.



This is nothing to do with corp theft or giving back BPO's or anything of that nature. That's all totally irrelevant. Its to do with X making a RL threat which is apparent from what was said in the Ops post. They admitted it. That's a bannable offence no matter what the reason even if Y planned it that way.

Its a very easy decision for CCP to make as the circumstances are irrelevant. The only relevant part of the Ops post is...'so “X” use his skill (using known e-mail) to check who hi is, and send to him information, some like this:
“You not anonymous in net. You name is “X” and you live at “X – home”, so please give my BPO back”.'

But I call troll too as no one gives that sort of access to a new character, 4/10. All good trolls give a hint as in 'good-fellow' in the subject line.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2009.09.26 01:59:00 - [38]
 

i stopped reading after i saw all the bad formatting. use justified please.

Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.26 03:00:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Janusz Rvn
Them in his corporation (where hi was a one of oldest and important players), join noob, lets name his “Y”.

....

But “Y” has an other idea of “rules”. He took a loot of BPO for corp hangars, put offline couple POS’es (2 in middle of production mother ships), stole POS parts, BPO and anything what hi can. Most of BPO was owned by “X” (All of them worth over 25B ISK)


This is the part where X and the corp did a mistake. Giving a "noob" that joined the corp recently the chance to steal and offline all that stuff. Don't give so much power to new people in your corp, or anyone that you don't know very good. It was a matter of time till someone would rob you. Take your ban as a lesson, don't trust anyone and read the EULA+ToS, that helps you to stay within the rules if you really like to ruine someones gameplay.

Zodiaq
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.27 03:20:00 - [40]
 

You guys don't get it - this is big misunderstanding and You see this all wrong, proly in worst possible way... sadly GMs see this same way... when my friend wrote 'You not anonymous in net. You name is “Y” and you live at “Y – home' he didn't mean 'your name is Y and you live here so as we know where u live we can get you' but he meant 'your name is Y you live HERE and start acting as grown person, what u did affected other peoples work, don't act as child happy to get other ppl suffer, bu as coworker who's actions affect other people'. This is all big misunderstanding! Think of it a moment - if he wanted to threaten person Y he would have done it REALLY anonymously as he is IT specialist, and he knows all information on Internet can be traced specially if sent in game or via communicators... but that wasn't his intention! He just wanted Y to start acting like grown man, as this game encourages such people to play it and have fun (average age of players is higher than games like WoW or such). I hope that CCP can see what my friend really meant and fix all this - permanent ban for misunderstanding is very extreme action. Many months of hard team work to be lost.

PTF - Zodiaq

Neci Maren
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.09.27 03:25:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Neci Maren on 27/09/2009 03:37:11
Originally by: Zodiaq
You guys don't get it - this is big misunderstanding and You see this all wrong, proly in worst possible way... sadly GMs see this same way... when my friend wrote 'You not anonymous in net. You name is “Y” and you live at “Y – home' he didn't mean 'your name is Y and you live here so as we know where u live we can get you' but he meant 'your name is Y you live HERE and start acting as grown person, what u did affected other peoples work, don't act as child happy to get other ppl suffer, bu as coworker who's actions affect other people'. This is all big misunderstanding! Think of it a moment - if he wanted to threaten person Y he would have done it REALLY anonymously as he is IT specialist, and he knows all information on Internet can be traced specially if sent in game or via communicators... but that wasn't his intention! He just wanted Y to start acting like grown man, as this game encourages such people to play it and have fun (average age of players is higher than games like WoW or such). I hope that CCP can see what my friend really meant and fix all this - permanent ban for misunderstanding is very extreme action. Many months of hard team work to be lost.

PTF - Zodiaq


You don't bring Real Life into a game at least in this manner. He went and got this person's name with the intent of having him act mature in this situation. That is unacceptable. It is a threat. Our anonymity is a right granted to us through the EULA so that we can do whatever we want with it. If you or your friend want to cross that line and violate anonymity then you deserve a permanent ban.

It isn't a misunderstanding, it is a violation of the EULA. Your friend's ban will stick and stay stuck because he violated the rules of this game.

Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
Posted - 2009.09.27 03:40:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Serge Bastana on 27/09/2009 03:41:07
No sorry mate, I say *******s, knowing someone's real name is one thing, I discovered another player's name on a website that had his eve character listed, that was publicly displayed, but what I didn't do is then go and find out his home address and start telling him that I had this information.

Doesn't really matter if the claim is that it was a message to grow up, there is an implied threat there when you go to the effort of uncovering that information. That's where it all goes wrong.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Now walk it.

Fortunate Star
Posted - 2009.09.27 03:50:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
As far fetched as this may sound.
The point is that in RL you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Maybe X really did do it. But unless CCP really did have iron clad proof, if I were X, I would push this all the way to the CEO of CCP and tell them give me back my characters.



You dont own "your" characters or anything in game. CCP does.
CCP never have to give anyone anything in game.

They could decide arbitrarily to nuke your character for no reason whatsoever and there is nothing you could ever do about it.

WhiteSavage
Gallente
Ever Flow
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.09.27 04:05:00 - [44]
 

Did he threaten the thief or just say hey this is where u live? And either way how did the thief prove anything>? unless the conversation was ingame.

Zodiaq
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.27 06:35:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: WhiteSavage
Did he threaten the thief or just say hey this is where u live? And either way how did the thief prove anything>? unless the conversation was ingame.


He just said where Y lives, there was not other intentions than what I've already written. No threats, no insulting, and my friend meant no harm - conversation was personal and no other ppl were informed about address. CCP is overreacting - as I said what was my friend's intentions, CCP permanently baned his accounts, destroying many months of OUR team work. I know they can do that to anyone, but would anyone be happy when they do such thing to him? Many people in our alliance know person X well, we have met personally in real life on our few gatherings and I honestly can say he is calm person (playing eve mainly as industrialist), not type of thug, and CCP made him a big harm... we are loosing our friend here all because of misunderstanding!

Joe Skellington
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2009.09.27 08:17:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Zodiaq
Originally by: WhiteSavage
Did he threaten the thief or just say hey this is where u live? And either way how did the thief prove anything>? unless the conversation was ingame.


He just said where Y lives, there was not other intentions than what I've already written. No threats, no insulting, and my friend meant no harm - conversation was personal and no other ppl were informed about address. CCP is overreacting - as I said what was my friend's intentions, CCP permanently baned his accounts, destroying many months of OUR team work. I know they can do that to anyone, but would anyone be happy when they do such thing to him? Many people in our alliance know person X well, we have met personally in real life on our few gatherings and I honestly can say he is calm person (playing eve mainly as industrialist), not type of thug, and CCP made him a big harm... we are loosing our friend here all because of misunderstanding!


Have your friend petition someone with higher authority, I'm sure they will work it out.

Nika Dekaia
Posted - 2009.09.27 08:23:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Zodiaq
He just said where Y lives, there was not other intentions than what I've already written. No threats, no insulting, and my friend meant no harm - conversation was personal and no other ppl were informed about address. CCP is overreacting - as I said what was my friend's intentions, CCP permanently baned his accounts, destroying many months of OUR team work. I know they can do that to anyone, but would anyone be happy when they do such thing to him? Many people in our alliance know person X well, we have met personally in real life on our few gatherings and I honestly can say he is calm person (playing eve mainly as industrialist), not type of thug, and CCP made him a big harm... we are loosing our friend here all because of misunderstanding!
There is NO MISUNDERSTANDING what so ever.

It was your fault when giving him the rights in the first place. You then faild to remove those rights before telling him he would be kicked.

You then got his RL information. Doing so and using the information to make him give back the items is very much blackmailing. Whether the thread was explicit spoken out or not is irrelevant. The potential of RL threads alone is enough.

And if the proof (your friends email) was checked and verified by the GM is obsolete NOW since you gave proof yourself.

Joe
Umbra Legion
Shadow Empire.
Posted - 2009.09.27 08:30:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Mavvaz
How do you expect anyone to read this?


Eve is a multicultural game, and whatever country the Op's from, I think he was able to get the story across.
Exactly how many languages are you fluent in mate?Rolling Eyes

To the OP: your friend screwed up, there’s no reason to feel like a victim or think that the same is going to happen to you, unless your breaking the same basic rules of game play.

Sani Oska
Posted - 2009.09.27 08:45:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Zodiaq
Originally by: WhiteSavage
Did he threaten the thief or just say hey this is where u live? And either way how did the thief prove anything>? unless the conversation was ingame.


He just said where Y lives, there was not other intentions than what I've already written. No threats, no insulting, and my friend meant no harm - conversation was personal and no other ppl were informed about address. CCP is overreacting - as I said what was my friend's intentions, CCP permanently baned his accounts, destroying many months of OUR team work. I know they can do that to anyone, but would anyone be happy when they do such thing to him? Many people in our alliance know person X well, we have met personally in real life on our few gatherings and I honestly can say he is calm person (playing eve mainly as industrialist), not type of thug, and CCP made him a big harm... we are loosing our friend here all because of misunderstanding!

If X is not a thug then why did he need to look up real life information on Y? What purpose did this exercise serve? Start acting like a man or what? Why do you think Y gave back stuff when X told him he knows his real life info?

Quite obvious it is blackmail. There is no place for that in this game. Tell all of your friends and corpmates to read EULA very carefully so that more months of your teamwork will not go down the drain if they suddenly decide to start blackmailing each other.


Malthros Zenobia
Posted - 2009.09.27 10:05:00 - [50]
 

The text is horrible but if I'm reading right, a newbie joins your corp, you apparently give them a ton of access. They use said access to take items and disrupt operations then they leave with all their loot. Your friend then sends them a message basically saying "I know who you are and where you live, give it back", which most people will see as a threat against their well being, and the person's banned for making RL threats?

Your corp needs to control its roles better. I am amazed that a corp with those assets, and that apparently does supercap production, would give that level of access to a new player.Confused

Malthros Zenobia
Posted - 2009.09.27 10:13:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Resire Honore
Just an information, even in '"' as you propably see.


Anyone else just think of Jenny Spitfire when trying to read this?
Jenny spitfire Could spell a whole lot better. It was more of a grammar issue there Cool


Jenny also did it on purpose to get attention, just like the Vaga BPO thing a few years ago.

Merovee
Amarr
Gorthaur Legion
Of Mordor
Posted - 2009.09.27 10:26:00 - [52]
 

good fella = gets whacked by ccp = Laughing

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2009.09.27 10:36:00 - [53]
 

Why did you kick the alt and not the main? thats just plain stupid. Why did a noob have access to nyx parts anyway? And yeah RL threats = bannage pure and simple.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2009.09.27 10:41:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
I think peopl are missing the Op's point.

What did CCP do to make sure that X actually DID send said email and threaten to do harm to Y in real life?

If they just took Y's word for it then that is plan wrong. And if it was an email sent from some random name (which most people have) what is to say that Y didn't make up a yahoo name and send to himself a threating email to frame X and get him banned?

You do see how this could be missused?
How did CCP prove that X sent it?


I would imagine its the same email address as the eve account is tied to tbh, fairly straight forward.

Esk Esme
Caldari
Smack Crack and Pot
Posted - 2009.09.27 10:58:00 - [55]
 

threatning in R.L over a game wich is only pixels is just stupid deserved to be band

so all in all a ban was getting off lightly

my spelling sux so sue me

Unnecessary comments removed. Zymurgist

Landrassa
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
Posted - 2009.09.27 11:08:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Sani Oska
Edited by: Sani Oska on 25/09/2009 22:19:30
Your friend X had 4 characters with 50 mil skill points each and he did not know that finding real life information on players and using that to coerce them to give you things in game (even if Y is just returning those BPOs) is against the EULA???



Heck, if the threats are serious enough, that might be grounds for actual criminal prosecution. Threatening people in real life is something police officers and judges tend to frown upon, and the fact that it is over something as silly as a bunch of pixels doesn't exactly help X's case either.

Gsptlsnz
Posted - 2009.09.27 11:36:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 27/09/2009 11:51:31
"We know where you live" is such a common threat it's a cliche in books, films, TV. It's used for its easy deniability - it's hard for the victim to report it to the police.

But anybody who uses that approach understands the true nature of the communication.

It just doesn't matter how bad "Y's" in-game behavior was. It doesn't matter how much RL time the stuff that was stolen represents. It doesn't matter how carefully "X" composed his threat.

CCP had no real choice in how they could react.

Babel
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2009.09.27 11:42:00 - [58]
 

If I received a message telling me 'You are not anonymous, Your name is *YYYY*, You live at *ADDRESS* - please return what you stole' of course I wouldn't interpret that as a potential threat at all .... of course not ... how silly to think such ... inconceivable ...

'Your name is Y you live HERE and start acting as grown person, what u did affected other peoples work, don't act as child happy to get other ppl suffer, but as coworker who's actions affect other people' I would of course interpret the message this way .... any other interpretation is completely out of the question. :)

Another Forum'Alt
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.27 11:48:00 - [59]
 

Corp theft is legit. you let this guy have access to all your BPOs? Please tell me your corp name so I can join Very Happy

Making IRL threats is against the EULA, try reading it some time. It WILL get you permabanhammered as it should. (see: Ginger Magician)

Splinter McIron
Posted - 2009.09.27 11:49:00 - [60]
 

There are consequences to being a bad person. Being hunted down and beaten to near death/death for actions in a game might just be one of them. It is really a good idea to think before you act, just how motivated is the person you are stealing from to defend their goods? You stole something from them in a game, they will steal something from you in RL. Seems fair to me, seeing as you left them no other options.

Without seeing the actual e-mail that was sent, word for word, I cannot say whether CCP took the right action or not, however, I can tell you that X did not take the right action. E-mails can be tracked, showing up on his doorstep or calling him to ask for them back is un-proveable, and far more effective.

-Splinter


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