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blankseplocked Battleship+ training vs Battlecruiser training
 
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Phey Onat
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
Posted - 2009.09.24 20:03:00 - [1]
 

I've read a few times that training for battleship and above is a far different path than training for a battlecruiser and below. Why is that?

I understand the obvious reasons: weapons used are different so specialization paths vary, jump drive operations for caps.

I'm wondering where the two seperate so much, don't they need the same support skills to maximize efficiency? Is it simply that the caps need more time than the AC, HAC, CS because they have heavier fitting requirements?

Meylota LeFey
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.24 21:00:00 - [2]
 

I don't fly caps ships yet, but from what I've seen I'd say it's mostly due to time investment needed. Cap ships need a lot of skills trained to 5 to be able to even step on to them, then they also have additional modules that require other skills trained to 5's a lot of the time as well.

Prior to that, though, yeah... pretty much all the support skills serve you well simultaneously. My training plan has been support skill heavy, and only now am I starting to train into the more "advanced" ships in order to take advantage of those skills.

Mona X
Caldari
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.09.24 21:03:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Mona X on 24/09/2009 21:03:50
Originally by: Phey Onat
I've read a few times that training for battleship and above is a far different path than training for a battlecruiser and below. Why is that?


Bull****. Large guns specs requires small and mediums specs at 4. if you use some skills with BC, you're gonna use them in BS as well.

Only diffrence are Caldari, where you can fly drake, and the respec for rokh. But it's still will use your whole shield shield backbone. Even going going from drake to Raven could mean some "wasted" skill points, but it's nothing like "far diffrent".

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2009.09.24 23:05:00 - [4]
 

If you go the battlecruiser route, the path beyond generally leads into Command Ships. This requires Leadership and a bunch of leadership skills to do well, none of which are used on the battleship route. The path beyond battleships generally involves Marauders, Black Ops, or capital ships, so you concentrate on large weapons and specialty skills for those (like jump drive skills) that just don't apply to anything smaller.

Psiri
Posted - 2009.09.25 03:56:00 - [5]
 

Aside from the large size module specific skills, such as the large gun specializations or large module requirements (which usually come in handy anyway) you will find pretty much every other support skill just as useful for your BC (or any other ship for that matter) as you will for your battleship.

Only other thing I could think of is the fitting skills, I find that some popular BC fits can be a little bit easier to fit, one popular exception however would be the drake which just is a plain b**** to fit for PvP aswell as PvE.

I believe some people feel that support skills are more important for battleships because as the EFT numbers go up so does the impact of your skills. A 2% damage increase on a frigate doesn't translate to much but on a BS spewing out 1k DPS it's a modest but decent increase.

In PvP however I feel that good support skills are vital nomatter what you fly, by the time you're good in a T1 cruiser you'll have most of the support skills at V which you need for flying a BS. The step from Frigate to Cruiser is greater than from Cruiser to BS.

m3rb3aSt
Minmatar
Advanced Component Research Enterprise
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.25 04:07:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Mona X
Edited by: Mona X on 24/09/2009 21:03:50
Originally by: Phey Onat
I've read a few times that training for battleship and above is a far different path than training for a battlecruiser and below. Why is that?


Bull****. Large guns specs requires small and mediums specs at 4. if you use some skills with BC, you're gonna use them in BS as well.



QFT

if you wanna use t2 large guns then you need to train for medium and small t2 guns as well.


N Ano
Caldari
Templars of Space
Posted - 2009.09.25 09:21:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: m3rb3aSt
Originally by: Mona X
Edited by: Mona X on 24/09/2009 21:03:50
Originally by: Phey Onat
I've read a few times that training for battleship and above is a far different path than training for a battlecruiser and below. Why is that?


Bull****. Large guns specs requires small and mediums specs at 4. if you use some skills with BC, you're gonna use them in BS as well.



QFT

if you wanna use t2 large guns then you need to train for medium and small t2 guns as well.



Not to mention You benefit from all the support skills like energy managment, shield upgrades and what have you.

Darthewok
Perkone
Posted - 2009.09.25 10:35:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Darthewok on 25/09/2009 11:21:25
BC V, Med Turret V, Med Turret Specialization (around 1-2 months) is the main thing BC uses that is not also used by BS
Large Weapon Spec skill (very minor, only 1-2 weeks) is the main skill BS uses that is not used by Caps

So skills mostly overlap in the BC->BS->Cap path.
Skills for each layer are mostly reused in the next layer.

Where skills don't overlap much is outside this chain if you start training HAC/ Recon/ Cov Ops/ Inty/ Interdictor/ Heavy Interdictor etc. which use a lot of spaceship skills and other skills not used in BS or Caps.

Mingarr Threkk
Posted - 2009.09.25 14:09:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Darthewok
Edited by: Darthewok on 25/09/2009 11:21:25
BC V, Med Turret V, Med Turret Specialization (around 1-2 months) is the main thing BC uses that is not also used by BS
Large Weapon Spec skill (very minor, only 1-2 weeks) is the main skill BS uses that is not used by Caps



Med Turret V and med specialization IV are prerequisites for Large Turret Specialization though, so only Med Turret Specialization lvl V is really "wasted" when it comes to flying BS. Oh, and the actual BC skill of course.

Darthewok
Perkone
Posted - 2009.09.25 16:12:00 - [10]
 

wow so BC->BS->Cap is very seamless and only "wasted" skills would be the BC skill itself, med turret spec V, and large turret spec I-V. this package basically gives you the "fundamental 3" for 0.0 life in the shortest time. a passable ship for roaming/more mobile ops (BC) and the key ships for POS warfare (BS/Cap). the meat and potatoes of your racial ship line. somewhat boring with no specialist T2 ships but lays a solid foundation.

DarthCaboose
Posted - 2009.09.26 06:28:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Mona X
Edited by: Mona X on 24/09/2009 21:03:50
Originally by: Phey Onat
I've read a few times that training for battleship and above is a far different path than training for a battlecruiser and below. Why is that?


Bull****. Large guns specs requires small and mediums specs at 4. if you use some skills with BC, you're gonna use them in BS as well.

Only diffrence are Caldari, where you can fly drake, and the respec for rokh. But it's still will use your whole shield shield backbone. Even going going from drake to Raven could mean some "wasted" skill points, but it's nothing like "far diffrent".


I fly a Drake and my skills are pretty well oriented towards Passive Shield Tanking. However, "Shield Compensation" is the only skill I need to train up to really bridge the gap to good Active Shield Tanking.

The requirements for the Active Shield Tanking certificate are far less than the Passive Shield Tanking one (though how good the whole certificate system is is definitely debatable).

As for missiles, that's another can of worms...

Dodgy Past
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2009.09.27 21:14:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Dodgy Past on 27/09/2009 21:14:58
Originally by: Darthewok
wow so BC->BS->Cap is very seamless and only "wasted" skills would be the BC skill itself, med turret spec V, and large turret spec I-V. this package basically gives you the "fundamental 3" for 0.0 life in the shortest time. a passable ship for roaming/more mobile ops (BC) and the key ships for POS warfare (BS/Cap). the meat and potatoes of your racial ship line. somewhat boring with no specialist T2 ships but lays a solid foundation.
This is pretty much exactly what I've been doing.

You can stagger things, for example I got good enough with the BS to fund myself through missions..... the drone skills ( and the ECM ones for EW drones range bonus ) I picked up meant I only had to sidetrack briefly into tracking disruption to make an effective Arbitrator, I've just done the T2 Medium lasers and BC IV to allow me to make good use of the harbie. Will now sidetrack into Frigate V for AFs, Covops ( most skills needed for a curse anyway ) and Intie ( Evasive Manoeuvring will be nice considering Amarr lumber so much )

Will probably then get T2 spec large lasers as it looks like it'll be needed more than a curse and gives me more time for pew pew as I'll still be flying cheaper ships.

Proto TC
Posted - 2009.09.28 13:45:00 - [13]
 

<= obviously an alt.

If you plan to play EVE for a long haul.

Generalization:
BS leads primarily to Dread. Faster path.
BC can lead to Carrier. Longer path.

Specifics:
Dread is a gun platform with a siege module that requires AWU to 5 (you should have this anyway). Dread uses X-Large guns (need large guns to use them). Simpler and shorter path. But as a ship, dread is boring and is used to shoot POS (bring a good book) and shoot other caps (very rare outside 00 space)

Carrier requires two modules below and can fit Warfare Links:
Drone Control Unit that needs heavy drone skills.
Triage module needs logistics to 5
Carriers usually carry fighters that need leadership 5.

Compare this to Command ship that needs Leadership 5
And warfare links.

You can go to carrier directly if you bypass the gun skills completely and just concentrating on drones, hulls and support skills. However, you would also have to bypass the CS and at the end will be only able to operate a carrier. If you go directly to the dread you will still have a good skills to fly a BS. That is not to say that both carrier and dread do not require a lot of same skills.

Carrier is a more versatile platform and sees a lot more use then a dread. It can attack/repair POS, attack other caps, attack other large ships (BC+), repair/support fleets, solo some lvl 5 missions.


 

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