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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2009.09.25 04:38:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Perry
With the announced Artillery boost (+50% alpha) the Thrasher, formerly known as the worst destroyer, will be decent againt frigs.

Oh wait...
Citation Needed.

Alxea
Posted - 2009.09.25 09:28:00 - [32]
 

Lets test that on sisi then vs my AF's. GO!

2009.09.24 06:20:00

Victim: Mosschop
Corp: Sycophanta
Alliance: Aeternus.
Faction: NONE
Destroyed: Thrasher
System: FD-MLJ
Security: 0.0
Damage Taken: 2209

Involved parties:

Name: Alxea (laid the final blow)
Security: -0.3
Corp: The Army of The Ori
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Ishkur
Weapon: Light Ion Blaster II
Damage Done: 2209

Destroyed items:

Tracking Speed
Small Ancillary Current Router I, Qty: 2
Optical Tracking Computer I
EMP S, Qty: 9
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Qty: 4

Dropped items:

Damage Control II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Warp Disruptor II
EMP S, Qty: 430 (Cargo)
EMP S, Qty: 12
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Qty: 3
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Looks like destroyers fail to me to do what people think they should. I poped it so fast he didn't get through my shield. Pops in a few hits with my blasters + drones. Maybe its just cus I have mad skills, or its cus I fit my af's for dps good luck tanking 385 DPS with a destroyer btw. Eft a ishkur with 2 mag stabs and 2 damage rigs + I win. Twisted Evil

Infact...

2009.09.24 10:15:00

Victim: RadHard
Corp: U-208
Alliance: Blade.
Faction: NONE
Destroyed: Jaguar
System: X-M2LR
Security: 0.0
Damage Taken: 10977

Involved parties:

Name: Alxea (laid the final blow)
Security: -0.3
Corp: The Army of The Ori
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Ishkur
Weapon: Light Neutron Blaster II
Damage Done: 10977

Destroyed items:

Small Core Defence Field Extender I, Qty: 2
Barrage S, Qty: 104
Medium Shield Extender II
Power Diagnostic System II
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Qty: 2
1MN Afterburner II

Dropped items:

Barrage S, Qty: 4000 (Cargo)
Gyrostabilizer II
EMP S, Qty: 4000 (Cargo)
Barrage S, Qty: 52
Stasis Webifier II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Medium Shield Extender II
150mm Light AutoCannon II

It seems nobody can tank me no matter what they are in.

2009.09.24 07:01:00

Victim: hyesp24
Corp: Frontier United Corp Klan
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Destroyed: Hawk
System: FD-MLJ
Security: 0.0
Damage Taken: 4050

Involved parties:

Name: Alxea (laid the final blow)
Security: -0.3
Corp: The Army of The Ori
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Ishkur
Weapon: Light Ion Blaster II
Damage Done: 4050

Destroyed items:

Gremlin Rocket, Qty: 2484 (Cargo)
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Qty: 2
Internal Force Field Array I
Cap Booster 150, Qty: 37 (Cargo)
Phalanx Rocket, Qty: 2284 (Cargo)
Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Ballistic Control System II
Phalanx Rocket, Qty: 41
1MN Afterburner II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Dropped items:

Thorn Rocket, Qty: 2500 (Cargo)
Medium Shield Booster II
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Qty: 2
Foxfire Rocket, Qty: 2500 (Cargo)
Small Capacitor Booster II
Republic Fleet EMP S, Qty: 30
Phalanx Rocket, Qty: 41
200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I

A medium shield booster wtf. :D

2009.09.24 06:51:00

Victim: hyesp24
Corp: Frontier United Corp Klan
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Destroyed: Hawk
System: FD-MLJ
Security: 0.0
Damage Taken: 4136

Involved parties:

Name: Alxea (laid the final blow)
Security: -0.3
Corp: The Army of The Ori
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Ishkur
Weapon: Warrior II
Damage Done: 2530

Name: Civ Ilization
Security: 0.7
Corp: Jericho Fraction
Alliance: The Star Fraction
Faction: NONE
Ship: Daredevil
Weapon: Light Ion Blaster II
Damage Done: 1318

Name: Pesets
Security: -0.2
Corp: The Hunt Club
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Unknown
Weapon: Hobgoblin II
Damage Done: 288

Destroyed items:

Thorn Rocket, Qty: 2260 (Cargo)
Gremlin Rocket, Qty: 2500 (Cargo)
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I
Muon Coil Bolt Array I
Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Thorn Rocket, Qty: 20
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Dropped items:

Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Qty: 3
Foxfire Rocket, Qty: 2500 (Cargo)
Internal Force Field Array I
Phalanx Rocket, Qty: 2500 (Cargo)
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Small Diminishing Power

Alxea
Posted - 2009.09.25 09:51:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Alxea on 25/09/2009 09:57:02
Just so I make my point clear hawks have a 80 therm resist to shields. Topped with a mid shield booster II they are some of the best AF tanks in the game, along side a jag, and a veng.

2009.09.24 10:45:00

Victim: RadHard
Corp: U-208
Alliance: Blade.
Faction: NONE
Destroyed: Wolf
System: X-M2LR
Security: 0.0
Damage Taken: 3034

Involved parties:

Name: Alxea (laid the final blow)
Security: -0.3
Corp: The Army of The Ori
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Ishkur
Weapon: Light Neutron Blaster II
Damage Done: 3034

Destroyed items:

Barrage S, Qty: 2000 (Cargo)
200mm AutoCannon II, Qty: 2
Barrage S, Qty: 84
Cap Booster 150, Qty: 25 (Cargo)
Small Projectile Ambit Extension II, Qty: 2
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Small Armor Repairer II
1MN Afterburner II

Dropped items:

200mm AutoCannon II, Qty: 2
Damage Control II
Barrage S, Qty: 84
Small Capacitor Booster II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Small Armor Repairer II

2009.09.23 11:04:00

Victim: Daria Sokolova
Corp: A1ONE Inc.
Alliance: ERROR.
Faction: NONE
Destroyed: Jaguar
System: FD-MLJ
Security: 0.0
Damage Taken: 5365

Involved parties:

Name: Alxea (laid the final blow)
Security: -0.3
Corp: The Army of The Ori
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Enyo
Weapon: Light Neutron Blaster II
Damage Done: 5365

Destroyed items:

Barrage S, Qty: 6280 (Cargo)
Republic Fleet EMP S, Qty: 12 (Cargo)
Small Core Defence Field Extender I, Qty: 2
Barrage S, Qty: 152
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Qty: 3
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Dropped items:

Nanite Repair Paste, Qty: 91 (Cargo)
Gyrostabilizer II, Qty: 2
Barrage S, Qty: 76
Micro K-Exhaust Core Augmentation
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
5W Infectious Power System Malfunction

2009.08.17 21:36:00

Victim: Tian Nu
Corp: Ministry of War
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Destroyed: Vengeance
System: FD-MLJ
Security: 0.0
Damage Taken: 3470

Involved parties:

Name: Alxea (laid the final blow)
Security: 1.1
Corp: The Army of The Ori
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Ishkur
Weapon: Light Ion Blaster II
Damage Done: 3470

Destroyed items:

Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Small Armor Repairer II
Small Anti-Thermic Pump I
Small Capacitor Booster II
EMP S, Qty: 39
200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I, Qty: 3

Dropped items:

Warp Scrambler II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small Energy Neutralizer II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Cap Booster 200, Qty: 22 (Cargo)
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II, Qty: 2
EMP S, Qty: 2820 (Cargo)
EMP S, Qty: 78

Victim: Tian Nu
Corp: Ministry of War
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Destroyed: Vengeance
System: FD-MLJ
Security: 0.0
Damage Taken: 2804

Involved parties:

Name: Alxea (laid the final blow)
Security: 1.1
Corp: The Army of The Ori
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Enyo
Weapon: Light Neutron Blaster II
Damage Done: 2804

Destroyed items:

Warp Scrambler II
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Small Armor Repairer II
EMP S, Qty: 100
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II, Qty: 2
EMP S, Qty: 2820 (Cargo)
200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I

Dropped items:

200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
EMP S, Qty: 50
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Small Capacitor Booster II
Cap Booster 200, Qty: 4 (Cargo)
200mm Light 'Scout' Autocannon I, Qty: 2

Same result with a enyo twice with a 400 DPS setup just to make my point clear, I could flash km's all day from testing. Near max af skills ftw! Wink + Gank AF's FTW!!! We can always fight on sisi if you think you can prove me wrong with your little destroyers. Hell AF's have more tank and more gank then a destroyer can ever hope to have. I never seen a destroyer tank even close to a jag or any regular af. Destroyers have paper for tank. I poped the destroyer in 4 hits, atleast the hawk lasted about 20 secs. I still beat it even tho most of my dps is from my guns 80% therm resists 80% + my guns deal therm and kin what caldari tank.

Schayol Sunkeeper
Imperial Crusade Syndicate
Posted - 2009.09.25 11:28:00 - [34]
 

Quote:
irrelevant kill mails
this is why destroyers should get boosted. we need a heavy assault destroyer, whose only job is to make frigades life hell

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2009.09.25 11:29:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Alxea
Lets test that on sisi then vs my AF's. GO!



A destroyer anywhere in close range is failing itself.

Ishkur dies
Wolf dies
Jaguar takes forever to die
Stupid interceptor is stupid
Fail Hawk is fail
So is a rocket Crow
Short range destroyer is crap

Tommyboy
Posted - 2009.09.25 14:05:00 - [36]
 

TBH yes the destroyers are a bastard child mixed inbetween the frig and destroyer and you can even get a bloody logistic cruiser to do a better job aka a scimitar. its also got a smaller sig then destroyers seriously a cruiser smaller than dessy`sLaughing

The thrasher is one of the better ones around and the amarr version, well someone ****ed up on the slot design and should have been fired years ago cause im sure he did the slot design on the retribution aswell and HE sucksTwisted Evil

But as i see it the 25% negative bonus to rof is a issue inc the hp and tank ability of the destroyers. but more so the SIG is the worst issue of any destroyer, id like to see a smaller sig on them.
As far as tracking goes it dosent help much if u have rails etc and u come across a good rifter pilot, ur destroyer is going down. it sounds like **** yes but you will find meny funny guys these days have a 400 plate etc and a TD and ur just a snack.

The t2 version they have more than one big issue, especially i feel sorry for the amarr the muppet in charge there i wouldnt even spare a comment to nor buy a beer, he has never flown in eve in combat im CertinRolling Eyes

sincerely Tommyboy

Hun Jakuza
We Are So Troubled Everyone Runs Screaming
Posted - 2009.09.25 15:25:00 - [37]
 

Coercer +1 mid ? No way!!!!
That is the most impressive destro in game.
Ok you dont have mwd and disruptor using same time, but you have over 350 Shocked dps like a cruiser.
3 salvo and you kill a ceptor and you can shot to 20km with small pulse laser. We don't need another overpowered amarr ship.


http://nbnkillboard.imgl.hu/?a=kill_related&kll_id=5505


Secondery
Posted - 2009.09.25 15:29:00 - [38]
 

EFT warriors ftl

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2009.09.25 15:52:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Coercer +1 mid ? No way!!!!..

The Coercer is the epitome of the glass-cannon approach, an enormous damage/range potential and nothing else Laughing
Now give it 4 guns with a 100% bonus, two bonus neuts and a bubble dropper, we can call it .. hmm .. how about Heretic! (a girl can dream *sigh*)

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2009.09.25 16:20:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida

Now give it 4 guns with a 100% bonus, two bonus neuts and a bubble dropper, we can call it .. hmm .. how about Heretic! (a girl can dream *sigh*)


How about no? i like heretic how it is with rockets (rocket spec5 here - used only with heretic and diction). Thing is rockets are worse than they ever were - so they just need a fix.

Terra Mikael
Horizon Dynamics
Posted - 2009.09.26 04:26:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Coercer +1 mid ? No way!!!!
That is the most impressive destro in game.
Ok you dont have mwd and disruptor using same time, but you have over 350 Shocked dps like a cruiser.
3 salvo and you kill a ceptor and you can shot to 20km with small pulse laser. We don't need another overpowered amarr ship.


http://nbnkillboard.imgl.hu/?a=kill_related&kll_id=5505




You do realize that the three destroyers you destroyed had a total of 7mil worth of components total?

For an effective fit, you want at least 10mil into the destroyer.
but here's a golf clap for your ego.Rolling Eyes

Allen Ramses
Caldari
Zombicidal Mania
Posted - 2009.09.26 06:13:00 - [42]
 

Simple adjustment, really.

Remove -25% ROF / +50% optimal role bonus
Reduce turret hardpoints to 5, with 1 missile or utility high slot
Add one mid or low slot
+15% CPU/Grid
+35% capacitor

These changes will allow for:
The ability not to fit tiny weapons for the sake of barely scraping by on PG.
The ability to fit a tank that could sustain more than a stray drone collision.
The ability to fit some decent utility that won't make you cap out before engaging.

Doggiee
Posted - 2009.09.26 11:02:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Doggiee on 26/09/2009 11:03:46
Give them WEB range and strenght bonus to be good at doing what they are supposed to do - catching and killing frig-size ships.

Andrea Skye
Caldari
Heavy Risk...
Posted - 2009.09.26 19:55:00 - [44]
 

I agree to some extent. Dessies do need a lil help if the changes go through. I use a polycarbed artillery thrasher at the moment and its pretty awesome. IF the changes go through then the frigs will prolly be going the same speed as i do with a mwd on.

Ive got about 5k EHP so moment i get scrammed by one of those im guna drop very fast.

Dessies are suposed to be a counter for small fast frigates (it even says so in thier description) so please dont forget this when you decide to put the Af changes through.

And for the record. I do agree with the AF change, for thier price they do need to be good. But please remember that they still need to be countered in some way.

Lemmy Kravitz
Minmatar
Rebirth.
Posted - 2009.09.26 20:17:00 - [45]
 

that's why I've always advocated the creation of the HAD Heavy Assault Destroyer. Basically a destroyer with more Power, more CPU, more tank, and get rid of the ROF penatly. Suddenly you'll have a ship that would scare the crap out of any AF pilot. and in a group of two or more would worry the heck out of a cruiser pilot.

Terra Mikael
Horizon Dynamics
Posted - 2009.09.27 08:30:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Lemmy Kravitz
that's why I've always advocated the creation of the HAD Heavy Assault Destroyer. Basically a destroyer with more Power, more CPU, more tank, and get rid of the ROF penatly. Suddenly you'll have a ship that would scare the crap out of any AF pilot. and in a group of two or more would worry the heck out of a cruiser pilot.


I'll have to agree with you here, I've edited the original post to reflect.

Grut
The Protei
Posted - 2009.09.27 09:39:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Lemmy Kravitz
that's why I've always advocated the creation of the HAD Heavy Assault Destroyer. Basically a destroyer with more Power, more CPU, more tank, and get rid of the ROF penatly. Suddenly you'll have a ship that would scare the crap out of any AF pilot. and in a group of two or more would worry the heck out of a cruiser pilot.


Meet the stabber 20k ehp, 300 odd dps & 2.5kms, all for less then 20mil a loss.

WAuter
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.27 09:45:00 - [48]
 

i hope devs are reading this!

We need better destroyers!

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.09.27 10:13:00 - [49]
 

Destroyers could need some love.

I think that their signature radius is to big. A smaller signature would help a lot.

Zilberfrid
Posted - 2009.09.27 11:52:00 - [50]
 

I don't like destroyers as it is now. Where people talk about a glass cannon, I think more in the lines of paper watergun.

Destroyers do have a large sig, better would be midway between cruisers and frigs, some 75% of the current value. Where the PG is often ridiculed, I think a dessie might benefit more from a modest (say 10-20%) increase in EHP.

This, however would be enough for the tech 1 variety.

As for Assault destroyers, that I like but the problem will be that it would border the role intended for half the current AF's and thus be highly susceptible to balancing issues. I do like the idea though, it is odd that for such an aggressive hull the only t2 variety is an ewar ship.

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2009.09.27 12:23:00 - [51]
 

The Thrasher is one of my favorite ships. When I started flying it in early 2008 it was a rarity. I'd get rushed by interceptors going 14km/s. And I'd kill them. I learned very quickly that a point on them is usually a waste. Ships would be in and out of point range insanely fast. I went for tracking and alpha instead.

Today it's very rare for me to get frigates to engage me in it. People will dock, pull out cruisers, and then make the attempt. I'll leave.

The firepower you can put on a destroyer hull is sick. The ROF penalty was created to pre-nerf them. Any kind of change to be considered would have to revolve around a smaller signature and maybe that ROF penalty. But I completely disagree with the need for an assault destroyer. It would invalidate several ship classes with its existence. A destroyer is an anti-frigate platform. It does that incredibly well. The glass cannon bit limits it from intruding on AF ground. Again, a smaller signature would allow it some group pvp/fleet protection roles.

DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
Posted - 2009.09.27 15:11:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Allen Ramses
Simple adjustment, really.

....


Making them easier to fit isn't the same as making them useful. And giving them T2 stats isn't a magic wand either, like the OP seems to think.

I guess most people are oblivious to the issues of the tracking formula ;/

Xing Fey
Posted - 2009.09.27 18:25:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Xing Fey on 27/09/2009 18:29:50
Originally by: Zilberfrid
I don't like destroyers as it is now. Where people talk about a glass cannon, I think more in the lines of paper watergun.

Destroyers do have a large sig, better would be midway between cruisers and frigs, some 75% of the current value. Where the PG is often ridiculed, I think a dessie might benefit more from a modest (say 10-20%) increase in EHP.

This, however would be enough for the tech 1 variety.

As for Assault destroyers, that I like but the problem will be that it would border the role intended for half the current AF's and thus be highly susceptible to balancing issues. I do like the idea though, it is odd that for such an aggressive hull the only t2 variety is an ewar ship.


Oh look, a reasonable post!

Heed this man's words of wisdom, destroyers do NOT need a change to their offensive capabilities (and that includes the -25% ROF), all they need is a bit more buffer and a bit less sigrad, to make them a tiddle more survivable.

PG is mostly ok, especially with the advent of small ACRs, though a 3%-4% incre4ase would be ok, just to make them more accessible for those with lower skills.


Also, the catalyst could really use a change for it's nearly useless falloff bonus. 5% damage, perhaps?

MasterCeremony
Posted - 2009.09.27 20:29:00 - [54]
 

Well, hopefully someone will read this, since im all the way at the end of this thread but its still relatively new so lets talk about this a bit - I know that at some point or another, there was talk about a destroyer class command ship. Personally i think that adding such a ship would be a huge breakthrough for small fleet battles. I've been playing this game for over a year, and i've slowly watched pvp change from a 1vs1 basis to full on blob/gank/fleet fights. So, this in mind, i still think that small fleet battles can be a lot of fun, and the cheaper the better. Millitia warfare comes to mind when i think of this. The need for strong fast and cheap ships is always high, however there is such small variety when it comes to this, Af and interdictors being basically your only choice. So while i really like the idea of a heavy destroyer...i like a command destroyer even more! But then, WHY NOT HAVE BOTH!? Anyways wanted to put that idea back out there, now you may discuss this...Cool

Terra Mikael
Horizon Dynamics
Posted - 2009.09.28 06:48:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Allen Ramses
Simple adjustment, really.

....


Making them easier to fit isn't the same as making them useful. And giving them T2 stats isn't a magic wand either, like the OP seems to think.

I guess most people are oblivious to the issues of the tracking formula ;/


Dude, trinity is dead man, it's not coming back. I miss it too.

Lemmy Kravitz
Minmatar
Rebirth.
Posted - 2009.09.28 07:56:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Grut
Meet the stabber 20k ehp, 300 odd dps & 2.5kms, all for less then 20mil a loss.


Here's the main problem with your arguement. It's a stabber. As it stands now Destroyers and thier T2 equivalant blow against AF's. Destroyer = Anti-Frigate Platform. i.e. it should pwn the crap out of any Frigate hull, and in bigger groups scare the heck out of cruiser hulls.

Silvenoshi Drako
Posted - 2009.09.28 10:18:00 - [57]
 

they should change the name of destroyer to destroyed in seconds...or noob savager of note?
they should have a role that is similar to what the do in rl Navy's

the name destroyer should instill a twitch in the stomach when one is seen jumping through a gate....instead it's laughed at by all thinking it's a sheep in the wolf's clothing. calling primary, no wait it's insta pop..you in the T1 frig burn that destroyer, oh wait it melted by it's own design



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