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Alexander Knott
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.10.01 14:26:00 - [91]

Pirate LP stores need examining in my opinion.
  1. Re-examine pirate implants -- Talismans and Halos are pretty substandard compared to the others. Talismans could become capacitor amount or recharge, dunno about Halos. Someone needs to start offering shield amount implants or shield tanking super-capitals are going to be pretty unpopular.

  2. Items where equivalents are available in the empire stores need to be cheaper in the pirate stores. The 'cost' of obtaining LP in NPC 0.0 is higher than in empire.

  3. Sell items in the stores that will help repair negative standing with that faction -- these could be sold to would-be mission runners who have bad standing.

Charming Fellow
Posted - 2009.10.01 15:23:00 - [92]

Originally by: Charming Fellow
High end faction ammo (true sansha, dark blood, dread gurrista, etc) would be a great addition to loyalty point stores. I disagree with adding all faction mods to the stores since this will concentrate the supply of these mods into those areas where missions are available, nerfing ratting in regions without missions.
no one reads the last post on a page

Posted - 2009.10.01 17:38:00 - [93]

I like the LP system.

isk/LP conversion can be drastically different depending on how popular that NPC corp is, so it encourages people to go hunting for better conversion ratios and doesn't have everyone doing missions for the same corp.

One improvement that can be made: having an option to be able to convert the same item multiple times all at once. Right now you can only convert one item at a time, and then the entire list resets back to the top. It's a huge pain if you have tens of thousands of LP and are converting small items.

Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
Posted - 2009.10.01 17:50:00 - [94]


Sae Jabar
Posted - 2009.10.01 20:57:00 - [95]

Edited by: Sae Jabar on 01/10/2009 20:57:28
risk to reward margins for 0.0 agents are pretty bad, not only the fact that NPC 0.0 is dangerous for those not aligned with the controlling player faction, but because high pirate standings have such consequences on everything empire.

With that being the case, ISK rewards from missions should be considerably boosted, especially when 0.0 ratting is much more profitable (also considering that bounties are not collected for Empire faction rats, and collecting tags is a pain in the rear). More items should be offered in pirate LP stores, perhaps Dark Blood/True Sansha/etc. items as well at a higher ISK/LP cost.

Posted - 2009.10.02 05:31:00 - [96]

Originally by: Alexander Knott
Pirate LP stores need examining in my opinion.
  • Items where equivalents are available in the empire stores need to be cheaper in the pirate stores. The 'cost' of obtaining LP in NPC 0.0 is higher than in empire.

  • To add, the pirate LP stores need to expand their offering. Today, it's ammo, implants, and faction ships. They should offer a range of faction items like the high sec navy LP stores - Webs, Warp Disruptors, EANM, cap rechargers, neutralizers, smart bombs, etc.

    Kerfira Corp
    Posted - 2009.10.02 09:21:00 - [97]

    The most important thing that needs to be addressed with the LP stores is making the prices dynamic!

    Currently, maybe 1 out of 5+ LP offers are being used (you'll have better numbers of.c.). The others are simply not good enough to be used.... EVER!

    So, make statistics for each corp with an LP shop. Items that are not bought a lot should gradually be reduced in price, while popular items go up in price. And please, no floors or ceilings on the prices! Not being negative here, but you ALWAYS seem to get those wrong when you set them. Just let the market decide....
    With 'price' I also mean the ISK cost! I know you want an ISK sink, which is fair enough, but for many of the offers the ISK cost alone is more than the item could ever be worth!
    The statistics should also be used between corp. Ie. if a corp is not used much, prices in that corp should become a bit lower than in others.

    Some more suggestions, many of which has been mentioned...

    1. Get rid of the tags! For some few offers they're fine, but for others they're completely ridiculous!
    2. Make the different corp shops DIFFERENT! Currently all corp within a faction are only using 3 different 'setups' of offers.
    3. Remove implants from mission drops and mission rewards. Them being there prevents a natural price level to be established.
    4. Correlate the higher priced offers with 'special' missions (which you'd never get normally). Ie. to get item X, you'd have to complete some kind of mission (usually a hard one).
    5. If prices were dynamic, you could make faction/corp specific versions of ALL item types in EVE. A different browsing system would be needed though.

    Mr Xanatos
    Posted - 2009.10.02 14:08:00 - [98]

    Being able to sell your LP on the market would be nice. I have LP built up all over the place, 50 here, 200 there, couple 1000 some place else. I'll never get around to using it.

    Maybe a penalty for converting it to a marketable product e.g turn X amount of lp into a market product. You loose a % for converting your loyalty and selling it on.

    el caido
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Posted - 2009.10.02 14:28:00 - [99]

    Edited by: el caido on 02/10/2009 14:35:19

    I generally like the LP store, and I think it was a great step forward from the pre-LP store era. I will not, however, speak towards any changes to the LP store mechanics, since quite frankly, I think CCP should be looking at various other game mechanics first.

    That said, I do have a couple of minor suggestions. I support the idea that the UI for the LP store needs reworked - the simple things like remembering window size go a long way - possibly to match the Market UI like others have mentioned. If nothing else, at least providing larger quantity options for items like ammo would be especially helpful. Trying to convert a million+ units of ammo in an LP store is a painful, painful endeavor. Cheers.

    edit: I almost forgot. Interbus LP store. Seriously.

    Posted - 2009.10.02 16:08:00 - [100]

    (a) make the window remember what size it was. I have to keep resizing it
    (b) give us more filtering options. I want a ships/blueprints/modules/implants/ammo filters. I get really tired of scrolling past 300 implants every time I want to see what a module costs
    (c) Many of the lower end items have unrealistic costs (especially in tags) for their uses. Small guns and smartbombs come to mind.

    Lord Griever
    Posted - 2009.10.02 18:33:00 - [101]

    Some of this has already been suggested but I'll get it down anyway. In general I want facion stuff to be used alot more in pvp, and drop quite a bit in price.

    * - Get Pirate Faction Items into the LP stores, I would like to buy Dark Blood warp scramblers in Blood stores.

    * - For the above Items Remove the god damn tags, or at least reduce them alot. you can do missions for a week and not get enough tags for 1 item.

    * - Reduce LP cost for Pirate Faction ships to 200'000 (number discussable but 400k is making these ships hold a billion in price)

    * - New faster UI

    * - Faction Destroyer with dictor option and Faction BC (yeah I know this is not gonna happen but you asked what I wanted)

    *If you keep the old UI PLEASE include a exclude implants option....

    These are ships and modules that add very much to pvp. They would serve as a good isk sink. It would make them less rare, but seriously what is the point of making faction modules cost WAY more than they are worth? As far as I know only a few Faction modules are actually usefull compared to their T2 counterpart.

    While you are at it CCP go rebalance some of the faction modules to make them a little bit better than t2 or at least equaly good with betting fitting, just make sure the cost/value stay above% above t2 value so T2 will still have a market...

    Esk Esme
    Smack Crack and Pot
    Posted - 2009.10.03 09:17:00 - [102]

    half the stuff in lp store is junk tbh

    Why are some faction items the same as they t2 counterpart ?? I.E webs / Scrams wots the point wasting lp on such items when can buy t2 yea yea some power grid difrences but wot about range and stuff, might as well use best named to save on power grid/CPU

    just my 2 cents

    my english sux sue me

    SueE Side
    Posted - 2009.10.03 21:52:00 - [103]

    Originally by: Prof Pain
    Originally by: Salizar Amolkshue
    My .02 isk worth of comments.

    - Scrap the entire LP store UI and replace it with the Market UI. You get the treeview to browse through the categories, the ability to search, the ability to save favorites, and a convenient screen that lists all of the items in the category in a single screen with descriptions. All this, plus it performs better, and the only real difference between the LP store and the market is that you may need something other than isk to get the item. Plus you can scrap an entire code-stream with (what appear to be) fairly minor updates to the market UI code. win-win.

    - For the love of god, let us peruse the LP store from space. It's just plain dumb that you can't even look at the items in an LP store without being in their station. To accept delivery, sure, but if I'm sitting outside a station waiting for my hull to repair after a somewhat disastrous attempt at a Level 5 mission, why can't I be flipping through the LP catalog to figure out what I want to spend my LPs on? Being able to flip through an LP store for a corporation that I don't have any LPs with would also promote me looking around for good offers. Right now, I don't know what other corporations are offering, so how do I know I want to start grinding missions for them to get LPs?

    - As others have mentioned, split up the items in the stores more, so that you can't get 90% of the useful items out of the navy stores. Why would the Navy offer a +5% mining implant? Why would a R&D corp be offering guns? Why would an industrial corp be offering a +5% hybrid damage implant, or a battleship? The blueprints are scattered fairly well, but the modules and implants are pretty much the same everywhere.

    - While I find the number of tags required for some items to be incredibly steep, I can't really say the number required should be lowered. As others have pointed out, it is hard to be considered "loyal" to the caldari navy when you refuse to shoot at the gallente navy.

    - I would like to see the number of LPs you get be influenced by your standing with the agent / corp / faction. You would think that when you've been working with the same agent for a couple of years and are at or close to a 10 in standings with them and their corp that they'd throw in a bit of a bonus for you now and then. In Eve this could take the form of increased LP rewards as your standings go up.

    - Can we get the LP items put back into the datadump please? I'm not sure why they were removed, but if we can't peruse the actual LP store without being in their station, a website out of game is the next best thing. Unfortunately, the LP items are not included in the datadump anymore, so the websites are out of date. Can we have it back? Pretty please?


    ^^this +1.

    Also, on the whole 'tag' front, I think a better system would be that players can use tags to offset the lp/isk cost of faction items. For example, One player doesnt want to loose faction standings by killing gallate navy ships, he can still purchase item A for 30 000 lp, and no tags.

    Player B on the otherhand doesnt care about standings, and kills some gallate scumTwisted Evil for 100 odd tags, and pays 18 500 for item A.

    And finally player C hates gallante even more than player B, he has 3000 odd tags, and can buy item A for just 100 lp.

    In other words, no faction item requires tags, but they can make purchasing said item cheaper in terms of isk/lp.

    All the numbers above are just an example, but since 'tags' are another way of showing loyalty to a given faction, why not let them have a more varied role in the purchase of faction items? This would also mean you could effectively 'trade' lp via tags, as some others have wanted to do. Also, making these costs dynamic would be great, ie if people are constantly using the same tag/s to offset lp cost, the effect of said tags is lowered over time.

    just my 2isk worth.

    Ben Derindar
    Dirty Deeds Corp.
    Posted - 2009.10.03 22:41:00 - [104]

    Not running so many L4s these days as I'm in wormhole space now, but when I was, I remember being disappointed in the relatively static selection of LP store goods between different corps of the same faction. It meant that the available rewards wasn't really a factor in determining which corps I chose to run for; instead I just found a good high-quality high-sec agent and got grinding like everybody else.

    I'd suggest a cutback in available rewards at the corp level across the board. If I want faction guns, I should have to run for a combat/navy corp; if I want mining implants I should have to run for an industrial corp. Not only does it make sense from an RP perspective, but it may also help disperse the existing hubs a little, as players won't have a one-stop LP store to just squat on anymore.


    Commander SideBoob
    Posted - 2009.10.05 01:18:00 - [105]

    i mission for the minmatar republic. because there is a domination webifier, i think there should be a republic fleet web and maybe even a rep fleet target painter.

    Posted - 2009.10.05 03:02:00 - [106]

    have sub offers that u can redeem with other corps like a voucher of some sort for LP with one corp that might combine with another to produce unique items

    Kassa Daito
    Capital Construction Research
    Pioneer Alliance
    Posted - 2009.10.05 20:35:00 - [107]

    Originally by: Chi Quan
    some lp store items are plainly not worth it, compare the armor mods from the gallente and the amarr store, i have yet to see someone fitting gallente mods.
    take for example the amarr navy and gallente navy ANP:
    total cost for the amarr version: 5.982.000isk 6750lp (goes for about 30Mil on contracts)
    total cost for the gallente version: 24.560.000isk 6000lp (no contracts available; gee, i wonder why)
    while the amarr one is also superior in stats (17,5% resists vs 15,36%)

    some items do not fit the playstyle of the race, the minmatar lp store has only fof explosive missiles (as do amarr and gallente stores), while the caldari has ALL types.
    the caldari store appears generally very well stocked, seeing that it contains webifiers and warp jammer mods, and the best shield mods, with the specific corp stores offering overall the same items.
    there is also something weird about the navy hybrid ammo in the gallente and caldari store, one is vastly more profitable than the other, while both having identical stats. why not simply name both navy ammo and be done with "caldari navy antimatter" or "ferderation navy antimatter".

    I fit several Gallente navy mods. They make hands-down THE best Paladin/Kronos webifier in the game (Does a 14km 90% sound nice to anyone else?) and their LAR, although situational, makes a very good option for faction fit marauders because with a 7%/lvl bonus to rep amount and T2 resists you don't really need that much tank or the capacitor drain associated with the Amarr Navy Repper.

    On the downside, those are pretty much the only two worthwhile and they're situational. none of the "big-ticket" items are really worthwhile from Gallente (LARs, L/XL Boosters, Boost Amps, etc) but the ammo sells well in low/nullsec and since dealing with tags is somewhere around "sitting in a bathtub full of scissors" on my list of fun things to do that's where I end up spending LPs anyway.

    Originally by: Zhang Ramses
    Simplify the tags. We don't need or want four types of Caldari Navy Sergeant insignias. Just make "Caldari Pilot tags", where little ships drop one or two and big ships drop 20.

    I'm going to jump on this bandwagon as I believe this horse needs another good flogging. For balancing purposes, though, I don't think that having 3 different types of tag for each faction would be a bad idea so there is one for each ship sizes and each ship in those size drops from 1-5 of those tags (Cruisers drop 1-2 med tags, BCs drop 3-4 med tags, HACs drop 4-5 med tags while BSes drop 1-5 lg tags with 5 being reserved for the "special" BSes like Zor and 3-4ea coming from the Navy-equivalent BS ships).

    Gallente Citizen1
    Posted - 2009.10.05 23:46:00 - [108]

    Each LP store should have more unique set of items. I mean, not every LP store needs the ammo, maybe distribute them from 6 corps, 2 with L, 2 with M and 2 with S ammo/missiles. Each LP store could have 1 item that no other store has. Generally Each LP store item could be distributed only from 2-3 different corps.

    Purchasing stuff from the store is very slow and laggy. Store window could be structured more like normal market window.

    Maybe add some T1 BPO:s and POS fuel too to the LP store? Maybe dumb idea dunno...

    Posted - 2009.10.06 01:54:00 - [109]

    yeah id even like to see faction npc corp specific ammo each with slightly different modifiers.

    Manu Hermanus
    Posted - 2009.10.06 04:13:00 - [110]

    a "view affordable (by lp)" would be great. you already have it over half built, just needs a return current lp into the hide offers with more then________Lp box

    Very Happy

    ps tags should be required, but the quantity of tags for an offer, as well as tag drops needs to be looked at.

    Kaya Divine
    Kittens Factory
    Posted - 2009.10.06 04:18:00 - [111]

    Can some dev confirm that there will NOT be LP reset?

    Jarvis Hellstrom
    The Flying Tigers
    United Front Alliance
    Posted - 2009.10.06 13:52:00 - [112]

    UI and filters - please fix, they're painful to use now.

    Items - Everytime I look at at the LP store list I see zillions of implants with long, often near identical names. Without digging into each one I've no idea what they do. This is useless. Put up "Gunslinger Implant +5% to Hybrid Damage" THAT'S useful information.

    Item values should be dynamic and matched to the market. If something is junk, the government knows it's junk and isn't going to charge you a zillion LPs for it.


    I HATE tags. In two years I don't think I've ever bought anything that needed tags. It's just too much of a pain. There are too many kinds with too similar names and it never seems like you get the right one unless you buy it. If tags are important to the economy, fine, then have fewer of them drop and require far fewer of them in the LP store. The value will go up on the few that do drop and you won't have to have a station container with 4000 tags in it, most of them useless junk.

    That's pretty much it. Hope it helps.

    Caleb Ayrania
    Posted - 2009.10.06 21:41:00 - [113]

    LP store prices (demands) should be dynamic and based on supply and demands..

    This would fix balance and population distribution..

    Add to that a supply and demand dependant reward system, and a free selection of mission types and you would get some nice behavioural patterns emerge..

    Boosting combat AI is all awesome, but adding an AI/dynamic system to market and price related stuff will be among the biggest changes and boosts potentially to the game..

    In my not so humble epeen..

    Posted - 2009.10.07 03:50:00 - [114]

    i think a dynamic demand and supply system within a range of 30% move in LP required would be a good idea, more LP in busy systems less in non busy corps. Would need more variants in as far as offers from each corp and so forth

    Intangible Mirage
    Posted - 2009.10.07 16:30:00 - [115]

    Tags need to be lowered or eliminated. I RARELY get a Gallente kill mission but most of the Caldari stuff requires.....Gallente tags...Suprise Suprise.

    The UI needs to be made more like the market or have easily filterable options such as "ammo" "+1% implants" etc instead of what it has now. The window also can't be resized except when using the bottom right corner. needs fixing.

    Posted - 2009.10.07 18:18:00 - [116]

    As others have said, a dynamic pricing for items would be a good move. By varying prices for items by corp it would give people an incentive to move to other agents rather than sit in one lagged out mission system. (ie caldari navy might be 25% more to buy item x from than a corp that not many people use.

    I'd like to see the tags offers changed too, most items require far too many tags to be worth least offer an isk+LP's version of the items that currently are only available for tags+LP's.

    Another point is I've never understood why Amarr for example want only Minmatar tags when their standings to bloods/sansha are -8.00, but to minmatar are only -5.00. Surely if they want tags, they'd value tags from their worst enemy more...add offers for the pirate factions tags.

    More BP's in the store, and vary what each corps store offers, not the same (3?) set versions that seems to be the normal now.

    Add a jumpclones offer for people too, maybe something like 50k or 100k LP's for the corp letting you install one jumpclone in one of their stations. Would be a nice sink for LP's to help retain some value to them.

    Galactic Kingdom
    Posted - 2009.10.07 21:13:00 - [117]

    Originally by: Ex Mudder
    I'd like to see all LPs from missions pooled per faction, and standardized factional payout. R&D Corps shouldn't have different selections than combat corps, and I'd like to see my Amarr Navy LPs combined with my Viziam / Carthum LPs.

    Having Militia LPs kept separate would be fine. But the current system kinda locks you in to doing mission for just one corporations, or you end up with small amounts of LPs with various corps w/in a faction, and nothing good to buy.

    This ^^

    I got LP's all over the place and they might add up to actually something worthwhile if they would be faction based instead of corp based.

    Tags are a rarity for me, because I tend to avoid shooting at (High Sec) Faction ships and I only do missions level 1 thru 4, which don't drop them (often). Items requiring them are difficult/expensive to get.

    So in the end I barely use the LP store...

    Carebears with Attitude
    Posted - 2009.10.07 23:37:00 - [118]

    More variety. Make the stores more different from each other.

    I realize this means creating more faction modules, and more faction ships, but that's a good thing, so go right ahead.

    Rip Minner
    ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
    Posted - 2009.10.08 07:49:00 - [119]

    I realy like the Market UI for lp stores. Its one of the best ideals. Its kind of a no brainer too.

    One of the things I would like to see done is with the agents. I like how you guys added the option for group missions to ether share or keep the mission rewards when you turn them in.

    What I would also like to see is an option when accepting a mission to ether have your rewards as normal/all isk/all lp's.

    That would rock. Newer players that need isk can get it faster. Older players that whant or lp's can get them faster. Or if you just what to grind lp's to get that one iteam for yourself rather the pay for it off the market. As it stands right now If I want to grind the lp's for say a CNR I will beable to buy a few of them off the marktet with the isk I would make doing all the missions for the lp's.

    Is that crazy or what something way wrong with that one lol.

    Also there is a Huge and I can not stress this more Major Huge gap in level 4 and level 5 mission lp's. Thats also probly why I can buy 5 CNR's easy with isk then I can grinding level 4's for lp's.

    Closing that gap will help or lowering the lp store cost.

    Also puting the new Fraction BS's into the FW store only blows you know it do's so why do it?

    Ral Ulgur
    Caldari Provisions
    Posted - 2009.10.09 02:21:00 - [120]

    Needs polish:

    -It would be nice to have a broader variety of blueprint offers. Eg. AFAIK there are no CN 75mm Rail blueprints or CN HAM blueprints.

    -Each NPC corp should have a more characteristic store. This means fewer items / store.
    Example: Navies could have ammo and navy issue ships as could their manufactuerer. Biotech corps would have implants.

    -A reworked interface would be nice.

    -Less tags required!

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