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blankseplocked CCP Navigator - More respect please
 
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Domoso
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:31:00 - [1]
 

Quote:
Hello TimeSpirit,

I am very sorry to hear that necessary downtimes, required to upgrade hardware in order for Tranquility to run more smoothly or for deployment of free expansions and subsequent patches, is causing you distress.

Unfortunately these downtimes are absolutely necessary with the net result of improving overall performance on Tranquility and adding additional content for every player.

I take on board your concerns, however, this thread will be locked as there is little to no constructive content.


Just to rehash part of a locked thread.....

Free expansions? What's free about them? We pay $15/month to play this game. That's $180/year. While not a lot, there are other games with multiplayer aspects that are far cheaper. Perhaps not mmo's but sill far cheaper. Relatively speaking, this is an expensive game to play. And recurring payments imply that there is nothing free about it. So, free expansions? Would Eve survive without new content? Somehow I don't believe so. IMO, you're providing the service you're being paid to provide. So, how about a little less condescending tone in your replies to players with real concerns.

While I believe extended downtimes are necessary, that does not negate their impact on gameplay for which your customers are paying for in the first place. Generally speaking, service providers typically offer at least a symbolic refund when outages can be summed in days of lost services.

I'm sure companies like many of the online retailers, banks, brokerages also have to upgrade their databases and hardware. And yet, they seem to be able to do it with a minimum of "extended" downtimes.

Discussion of Moderation removed. Zymurgist

Citrute
The High and Mighty
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:34:00 - [2]
 

stuff plz k thx bai.

Girabaldi D'Protagonist
Minmatar
Quantum Theory.
The Device.
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:34:00 - [3]
 

First in a soon to be locked " whaa I want my money's worth even though I can't possibly be online 23/7" thread

Mikayla Grey
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:35:00 - [4]
 

waaaa i lost 0.002 cents

Fred Dibnoh
Steel Soldier's
Don't Panic.
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:35:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Fred Dibnoh on 22/09/2009 16:36:05
In before this is locked to Rolling Eyes

WOW that way ArrowArrowArrow

Larg Kellein
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:36:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Larg Kellein on 22/09/2009 16:37:07
Meh, his answer was perfectly reasonable, in my opinion.

As for free expansions: Yep, they are. Look at other MMOs, same monthly fee, but in addition you have to drag yourself to the nearest game store and pay for expansions. The only two games I can mention off the top of my head that does not charge you extra for this is EVE, and City of Heroes / Villains. What your monthly subscription buys you is access to the server and your account, on an "as available" basis. No more, no less.

baltec1
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:37:00 - [7]
 

Go play WoW and try to get their expansions with the same deal CCP has. Dont come back untill you succeed.

annoing
Amarr
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:38:00 - [8]
 

You pay as much to play WoW and you still have to pay for their expansions.

Jeeeeeeez, I thought I could whine but you've taken it to a whole new level.




Heroldyn
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:38:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Heroldyn on 22/09/2009 16:38:37

i dont agree to the content of the ops post per se
but i too find navigator's sarcasm a bit out of line.
it reads very arrogant and should have been written in a more respectfull tone.

if i were talking to our customers like that, i'd be booted already.

K'uata Sayus
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:39:00 - [10]
 

Geez, 50 cent a day to stave off the psychotherapy, drugs, and hours of individual and group sessions to alleviate the stress of RL and have a bit of fun.

GTFO you cheap s.o.b.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:40:00 - [11]
 

This will be *locked* with.

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:40:00 - [12]
 

why dont you go play one of those other cheaper games with free expantions thenWink

or just shut the hell up and play the game and stop whining on the forums for no good reason

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:41:00 - [13]
 

You are paying ONLY to get access to the servers - when they are online. CCP is not obligated to spend that money on developing EVE or catering to your needs.

You do not pay for the EVE expansions. You are paying to connect to the servers, and CCP graciously bestows new functionality and features upon you, for no additional charge. You are paying for a service, and getting another for free.

In addition, if you actually read the EULA (as I have. It's not as difficult to work through as you might think), you would know that you have already agreed to CCP's policy that they will do their best to keep the servers online, but that if they for some reason fail you are not entitled to any sort of refund.


Dred'Pirate Wesley
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:42:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Dred''Pirate Wesley on 22/09/2009 16:42:31
Originally by: Heroldyn
Edited by: Heroldyn on 22/09/2009 16:38:37

i dont agree to the content of the ops post per se
but i too find navigator's sarcasm a bit out of line.
it reads very arrogant and should have been written in a more respectfull tone.

if i were talking to our customers like that, i'd be booted already.
Question: How many paying custormers get upset when CCP gets snarky on the forums over a silly post?

Survey says: Only the poster and his alts as the rest of us laugh our asses off.

Hoo Is
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:42:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Go play WoW and try to get their expansions with the same deal CCP has. Dont come back untill you succeed.



This, but before you go, please contract all your stuff to me for safe keeping

Aurora Nyx
Inglorious-Basterds
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:44:00 - [16]
 

OP needs to be hit with a "stfu" stick.

Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:45:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Daemonspirit on 22/09/2009 16:46:08
Originally by: baltec1
Go play WoW and try to get their expansions with the same deal CCP has. Dont come back untill you succeed.


And can I hold your stuff for you while your gone?

Your whine was treated with far more respect than it deserves.

Heres hoping your having a bad day (in game, of course).
Originally by: Hoo Is
This, but before you go, please contract all your stuff to me for safe keeping


Dam you! beat me to it!


Mystical Dawn
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:46:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Domoso
Quote:
Hello TimeSpirit,

I am very sorry to hear that necessary downtimes, required to upgrade hardware in order for Tranquility to run more smoothly or for deployment of free expansions and subsequent patches, is causing you distress.

Unfortunately these downtimes are absolutely necessary with the net result of improving overall performance on Tranquility and adding additional content for every player.

I take on board your concerns, however, this thread will be locked as there is little to no constructive content.


Just to rehash part of a locked thread.....

Free expansions? What's free about them? We pay $15/month to play this game. That's $180/year. While not a lot, there are other games with multiplayer aspects that are far cheaper. Perhaps not mmo's but sill far cheaper. Relatively speaking, this is an expensive game to play. And recurring payments imply that there is nothing free about it. So, free expansions? Would Eve survive without new content? Somehow I don't believe so. IMO, you're providing the service you're being paid to provide. So, how about a little less condescending tone in your replies to players with real concerns.

While I believe extended downtimes are necessary, that does not negate their impact on gameplay for which your customers are paying for in the first place. Generally speaking, service providers typically offer at least a symbolic refund when outages can be summed in days of lost services.

I'm sure companies like many of the online retailers, banks, brokerages also have to upgrade their databases and hardware. And yet, they seem to be able to do it with a minimum of "extended" downtimes.

Discussion of Moderation removed. Zymurgist
OK goodbye!

You would much rather have 100 small patches every month instead of two large expansions in a year? One hour of downtime is much better solution than running 24/7 untill they crash. Stability is much higher.

As MMORPG veteran I have been really impressed of how EVE has been stable service. The downtime is good tool and it's always at the same time of day.

And now they are upgrading servers and idiots are flaming.

Heroldyn
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:46:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Dred'Pirate Wesley
Edited by: Dred''Pirate Wesley on 22/09/2009 16:42:31
Originally by: Heroldyn
Edited by: Heroldyn on 22/09/2009 16:38:37

i dont agree to the content of the ops post per se
but i too find navigator's sarcasm a bit out of line.
it reads very arrogant and should have been written in a more respectfull tone.

if i were talking to our customers like that, i'd be booted already.
Question: How many paying custormers get upset when CCP gets snarky on the forums over a silly post?

Survey says: Only the poster and his alts as the rest of us laugh our asses off.


weather the customer is right or not doesnt matter.

this is called proffessionalism.

if you fill a position that puts you into a communication situation with
your companies customers you must be able to react to their queries in a friendly and proffesional manner weather they are are right or not.

Stupid McStupidson
Gallente
Hoek Lyne and Sinker
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:46:00 - [20]
 

I'm reasonably sure that rehashing stuff from a locked thread will make the Mods see the errors of their ways.

Nuran Mukadder
Amarr
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:47:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Domoso
Quote:
Hello TimeSpirit,

I am very sorry to hear that necessary downtimes, required to upgrade hardware in order for Tranquility to run more smoothly or for deployment of free expansions and subsequent patches, is causing you distress.



Free expansions? What's free about them? We pay $15/month to play this game. That's $180/year. While not a lot, there are other games with multiplayer aspects that are far cheaper. Perhaps not mmo's but sill far cheaper. Relatively speaking, this is an expensive game to play. And recurring payments imply that there is nothing free about it. So, free expansions?


Yes, free expansions. If you want to play the Mines of Moria expansion in Lord of the Rings Online, for example, you need to actually upgrade your account, a value completely apart from the monthly fee.

Also, Navigator's answer had just that precise dose of elegant sarcasm that would pass quietly as the final message lost in a long thread, but that was just waiting for a new thread to shine as part of the OP's message. Well played, Navvie old chap, well played indeed!

Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:48:00 - [22]
 

As has been pointed out here, what about all the times that daily dt wasn't as long as expected. Due to recent upgrades it seems that normal dt's are often a bit shorter as they don't have to take as long to do the daily maintenance, which results in dt's being less than the usual hour, I've known some be only 30 mins.


Dred'Pirate Wesley
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:53:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Heroldyn
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Wesley
Edited by: Dred''Pirate Wesley on 22/09/2009 16:42:31
Originally by: Heroldyn
Edited by: Heroldyn on 22/09/2009 16:38:37

i dont agree to the content of the ops post per se
but i too find navigator's sarcasm a bit out of line.
it reads very arrogant and should have been written in a more respectfull tone.

if i were talking to our customers like that, i'd be booted already.
Question: How many paying custormers get upset when CCP gets snarky on the forums over a silly post?

Survey says: Only the poster and his alts as the rest of us laugh our asses off.


weather the customer is right or not doesnt matter.

this is called proffessionalism.

if you fill a position that puts you into a communication situation with
your companies customers you must be able to react to their queries in a friendly and proffesional manner weather they are are right or not.

Not in this game matey. We simply adore our devs and mods who don't take shiat from whingy mommas boys and emo bastages just looking to cloud up our fair forums with their latest round of "why the world sucks and btw so does ccp and eve" ranting cause something didn't go thier way. Wink

Kailea Shandrasekkar
Chor Tempest
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:56:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Dred'Pirate Wesley


Not in this game matey. We simply adore our devs and mods who don't take shiat from whingy mommas boys and emo bastages just looking to cloud up our fair forums with their latest round of "why the world sucks and btw so does ccp and eve" ranting cause something didn't go thier way. Wink


Such perfect answer needs a prize. Here, have a cookie.

Vysnaite
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:59:00 - [25]
 

ok thx bye

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:59:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Dred'Pirate Wesley
Not in this game matey. We simply adore our devs and mods who don't take shiat from whingy mommas boys and emo bastages just looking to cloud up our fair forums with their latest round of "why the world sucks and btw so does ccp and eve" ranting cause something didn't go thier way. Wink

AmenYARRRR!!

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:01:00 - [27]
 

1. I am sure you carefully checked what you are paying for before parting with your cash, and so are fully aware that service availability has no SLA.

2. Patches and expansions are free. If you subscribed today you would have full access to all the features available in game, the same would be true no matter when you start playing. You do not have to pay for historical or future expansions.

3. Either you are a troll or a fool who didn't look in to what he was paying for. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and call you a troll.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:06:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Ban Doga on 22/09/2009 17:11:33
Edited by: Ban Doga on 22/09/2009 17:09:22
Edited by: Ban Doga on 22/09/2009 17:09:10
Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai
You are paying ONLY to get access to the servers - when they are online. CCP is not obligated to spend that money on developing EVE or catering to your needs.

You do not pay for the EVE expansions. You are paying to connect to the servers, and CCP graciously bestows new functionality and features upon you, for no additional charge. You are paying for a service, and getting another for free.




While this is technically true, reality is a bit different.

The free expansions are one of the selling propositions. If CCP were to stop doing expansions because they are not required to make them this would defeat the whole "free expansions" thing (which is why they never can/will stop, unless they decide to end the life-cycle of EVE)

Did it ever occur to you that the people who write here in the forum actually DO care about the game?
They care so much that they take the time to write their opinion down.
Without those players we wouldn't have some of the things we have now. Last thing I remember is reintroducing the NPC corp descriptions - I know: "Who cares?! We all just wanna shoot other people in the face (in-game) and see them die (in-game) and collect their corpses (in-game)".


But seriously: the guys simply walking away because they are frustrated or annoyed don't really help.
Those that bring these things here so we can talk about, they help.


And I do generally agree with the OP.
Most answers are pretty well phrased but are still "go away - we do what we want".
And calling the recent downtimes, crashes and disabled API "necessary" is a bit of a stretch, IMO.



My professor for business studies used to say
"When you fight with a customer you will lose - either the fight or the customer"
(no he did not mean to give every customer everything (s)he wants)

soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:09:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: K'uata Sayus
Geez, 50 cent a day to stave off the psychotherapy, drugs, and hours of individual and group sessions to alleviate the stress of RL and have a bit of fun.

GTFO you cheap s.o.b.



This


I do think this is a successful troll however.

Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:11:00 - [30]
 

Please never criticise Navigator.

kthx.


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