open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: I Bring Gifts! (By Gifts I Mean Taxes, Sorry)
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (18)

Author Topic

Niatha l'Reine
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:30:00 - [31]
 

/me logging in to create a "ZeroTax" Corp. Expect more of these Soon(tm)! Wink

Ex Mudder
Gallente
Oberon Incorporated
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:30:00 - [32]
 

So when will we see the cost of manufacturing / research in Hi Sec stations be brought in line with the price of doing the same thing at a POS?

Making War Decs more expensive to deter griefing noob corps and driving their membership back into NPC corps?

Plenty more ISK sinks here that require minimal coding.

Cyclops43
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:36:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Mikayla Grey
Originally by: Azia Burgi
remember its us vets in the NPC corps that teach the n00bs to fly.

The "vets" in npc corps dont really know how to fly ships, only how to farm missions.

You should probably not speak about something you have no idea about!

While Azia might not have Chribba's status, she's helped hundreds or maybe even thousands of new players get well into the game in STI over the last 5 years. Many of those have moved into player corp when they were ready to do so, largely due to her tutelage.
My guess is that she's contributed to the success of this game at least 100x more than you Rolling Eyes

It does indeed seem wrong that people like her are punished for their help!

Miasia
KdZ Industries
Initiative Associates
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:39:00 - [34]
 

This is absolutly a step in the WRONG direction. Nuf said.

Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:41:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Reptzo on 22/09/2009 16:41:56
Originally by: Ex Mudder
So when will we see the cost of manufacturing / research in Hi Sec stations be brought in line with the price of doing the same thing at a POS?

Making War Decs more expensive to deter griefing noob corps and driving their membership back into NPC corps?

Plenty more ISK sinks here that require minimal coding.



QFT

If you really want people in player corps, make it worth going to player corps for the benefits. Making npc corps suck so much you would rather be in a player corp is kind of the wrong mentality. I mean, by all means tax NPC corps, whatever. But the fact that this is your first course of action is kind of saddening.

Most non-rookies are in NPC corps to avoid wardecs. Maybe you should look at high sec wardecs, and figure out what is "wrong" with them that everyone wants to avoid them. Maybe young players dont like getting wardecd by griefing corps 10 times their size, that are willing to camp the station 24/7 to get that one kill, and try to make someone emoragequit.

Maybe you should look into station redocking/aggro timers to stop high sec docking games. Make the "negatives" of player corps more managable, and people may actually want to join player corps. The guys looking to avoid wars at all cost will just pay the 11%, or 50%, or 99% tax if it means no one gets to shoot them. Or they will just quit, and find a different game, where they wont get griefed for being a carebear in highsec.

Maybe you should give some advantage to player corps that would flush out the players. Maybe change it so only members of player corps can use station factories and labs. So if your not in a player corp, you cant build anything(maybe restrict by size). All kinds of things you can give to player corps to make people want to join player corps, not simply get out of npc corp.

Sry if I went wall of text on you, was just going to make a simple statement.

Altaree
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:42:00 - [36]
 

This BIGGEST problem with this is that the tax only applies to mission runners. Tax is only on bounties and mission rewards. This change will not impact traders in any way. It will not impact miners. The list goes on, but these are the big two that can be easily taxed...

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:44:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Cyclops43

It does indeed seem wrong that people like her are punished for their help!



yes, I think you should organize some donations to pay her taxes.

11% seems too small, 25% would be more of an incentive to move to Player corps. But, the new player experience should explain about taxes, and how differnt corporations may have lower or higher tax rates - just to emphasize the point.

Magnum III
Journey On Squad
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:44:00 - [38]
 

Players become TOO careful about going into player corps, don't they...

The biggest reason why players find it hard to join player corps is because what if they have to leave them and now all the foes of the corp think that player would be a spy if the player wanted to join there corp instead. that sucks.

It's like a big mark of humiliation on a players cheak for all to see, so players become TOO careful about going into player corps, don't they...

Malarkey
Minmatar
Twisted Creations
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:53:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism XFor my part, I had wet dreams about making it 100%.. cause I really dislike people farming ISK with immunity and intending to sell it through RMT. Thankfully they don't let draconian little me design stuff. [:lol:



I'm with you, bro. Tax the NPC corps till they squeak!

Mikayla Grey
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:54:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X

For my part, I had wet dreams about making it 100%.. cause I really dislike people farming ISK with immunity and intending to sell it through RMT. Thankfully they don't let draconian little me design stuff. Laughing


CCP Prism X for president!

Ukucia
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.22 16:57:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Magnum III
Players become TOO careful about going into player corps, don't they...

The biggest reason why players find it hard to join player corps is because what if they have to leave them and now all the foes of the corp think that player would be a spy if the player wanted to join there corp instead. that sucks.

It's like a big mark of humiliation on a players cheak for all to see, so players become TOO careful about going into player corps, don't they...

Yep. The number of terrible player corps is very, very large.

There are virtually no tools available to see if a corp sucks before joining it.

Joining corp after corp after corp is not fun.

It's too bad CCP didn't bother to read the lengthy thread in GD on this subject, and consider the opinions of those who are against this idea. We do have some points.

Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:05:00 - [42]
 

Good first steep, but insuficient:
- Moar taxes.
- Dynamic taxes (don't tax noobs, tax huge carebears).
- Skill caps (no easy empire logistics with NPC corp freighters please, neither exhumers farming veldspar or bs farming lvl4).
- Tax market activity.
- Increase corp creation fee a big deal (stops stupid corps proliferation and makes it so people with real interest creates a corp); do the same with alliances BTW.

I hoped faction npcs are tuned down a bit so opposing militia can be fought with a reasonable chance in their territory too (not that much, but a good gang should be able).

Kirja
R.U.S.H
Red Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:06:00 - [43]
 

Being a Tax Officer in RL i APPROVE! Twisted Evil Now that we have income tax we should move on and gradualy add VAT, capital gain tax, excises and so on Twisted Evil

Shandra Fierce
SOLAR Horizon
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:07:00 - [44]
 

When will this change come to TQ, in Dominion?

Nidhiesk
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:09:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Nidhiesk on 22/09/2009 17:40:42
To the dev or this one here that wrote the dev blog :

what in the name is your goal in all of this ? to get players in player corp ? if thats the case, you guys must ask yourself this simple question which was, I believe, already answered by the same dev who wrote the dev blod. why are people in npc corp ? the answer is to avoid the troubles,wardecs and all.

so let me ask this again and probably so other people can comment on this: why are people going or staying in NPC corp ? to avoid the player corp troubles like wardecs for one. Well, not only that but thats a big reason.

So why is it because of the wardec. well no matter how I look at it and like it or not, not a lot of people dont like the current wardec system. one of the problems (among many) and this probably the biggest and most influential, a newly freshly created corp (1 day worth of living) can get wardeced by another one which spells total destruction and chaos in its path or by a really big fat uber EPIC I win alliance. the worst of it all, its legal and technically not considered griefing ???!!!

so lets take this example here: Character A joins a few corps here and there and gains experience but at some point, he decides to create a corporation. all goes fine from that point. he's fairly new to this corp and Eve stuff but he's learning.

After a while he gets wardeced. let say from a corp thats over a year old. their thing is pvp in high sec... since they've done over a year, they know their game pretty well. At this point, its not even fair... this "could" be called griefing if you ask me (but that could start a flame war and debate).

At this point, you get the picture. I think you guys should work on the wardec and all that kind of interaction between corps. Sure I do like the wardec system but theres a big hole in it that needs to be addressed. So if you guys wonder why people join npc corps...and you dont look at wardec for 1 thing... uhh, I don't know..no comments there cause I would begin insulting you guys. (Im just on the line of doing so anyway)

p.s: this taxe is such a big joke. tax or not, I will make more money at it. the devs knows about it. (ie: salvage <-- less tax for that mwuhahaah)

Miraqu
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:19:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Magnum III
The biggest reason why players find it hard to join player corps is because what if they have to leave them and now all the foes of the corp think that player would be a spy if the player wanted to join there corp instead. that sucks.[/quote



Thats left to the players themselves. You could research the web, ask in Recruitment channel, ask opinions about the corp and chat to members.

Most corps will also allow you to join their voicecomms (Vent, TS, Mumble) for a week so that you can talk to the ppl and decide then about the corp.

If the corp has no own web site/voice comms and nobody knows about it or it alliance then you usually are safe to assume that this corp is not the one you want to join.

Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:28:00 - [47]
 

I have already made several posts on the tax threads that are floating about on the forums. I see no reason to repeat myself. CCP looks intent on doing this and is unwilling to see the negative ramifications of it. So be it. I will add two more comments that I have not as yet spoken about.

1) This tax does not help in getting NPC corpies out into low/0.0 space. I have spent a lot of my Eve time teaching people how to live in 0.0 space, without the need of a Player corp. If I could go out at 7 weeks old and survive Anyone could. This tax will not only hit bounties in missions but the bounties for rats in belts and exploration sites in 0.0 space. My work at getting more people out into 0.0 and doing PvP will be undermined by this tax. It is already hard enough to get people motivated to make less ISk in 0.0. The removal of the attribute implant carry over after podding (Apocrpha 1.3) compounds the problem. Every action CCP is making is making it harder for me to get people involved in PvP.

In the end my goal is the same as CCP, I hope to see people get so excited that they go out and join Player corps just so they can see more action. My last Fleet Roam we attempted to bait an alliance but it was blown because one of the locals had been involved with one of my PvP fleets before. He kept saying how awsome it was and how it was the reason he joined a player corp and alliance.

This change simply makes my job harder, any higher increases in tax would make it untenable.


2) If you are going to tax it is silly to not tax everything. Losing .11 ISK when you make 1 ISK is nothing, for ether an old player or new. If you do not set a 1 ISK minimum then starter NPC corps will be filled with people asking, "WTF Tax?" when the hit the minimum tax ammout. They will see it as a penalty. If you make the tax function with a minimum of 1 ISK then it will simply be part of the game from the beginning for every player. A new pyaer will see it as part of the game rather then a penalty.



Last bit. This will not get Ashina out of CAS. Nothing that CCP ever does will get Ashina out of CAS. What I get the most out of Eve is being able to pass what I know on to the younger pilots out there. Seeing them grow and develop. It keeps the game fresh and interesting. I can not get that with a player corp. CAS's new pilots are truly new and shiny. My NPC corp 0.0/PvP projects take up a lot of my time these days so others manage the newer pilots more then I do but, I still like the option of popping my head in CAS chat and stirring the bees nest. Cool


In closing people who have hate for the pilots in NPC corps will love it. Pilots in NPC corps will ignore it. Pilots that are in player corps with NPC corp mission running alts will make one-man corps (logging off and playing their on PvP pilots or corp hopping to avoid the rare war dec). In the end all the time, effort and aggravation the change will have brought on will be for nothing. If he change will do nothing to bring about the change CCP seeks, so why do it?

Pirokobo
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:36:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Pirokobo on 22/09/2009 17:46:48
Originally by: Dynus
Why is NPC corp membership a problem? Is it because you can't declare war on their members?

Yes.

Quote:
Add a feature to allow war decs on individuals in NPC corps

Could work.

Quote:
or end up in small, abandoned player corps.

Have a monthly fee to keep a corp established.

Big problem is they need a mechanic that deters NPC-Corp macromining.
Quote:
its legal and technically not considered griefing

The world is not fair. EVE is a sink or swim game; there is no assurance that you won't be bullied for the sake of being bullied. Might makes right and so on and so forth. Players should be compelled to be wardeccable.

Nidhiesk
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:50:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Pirokobo
Edited by: Pirokobo on 22/09/2009 17:40:36
Originally by: Dynus
Why is NPC corp membership a problem? Is it because you can't declare war on their members?

Yes.

Quote:
Add a feature to allow war decs on individuals in NPC corps

Could work.

Quote:
or end up in small, abandoned player corps.

Have a monthly fee to keep a corp established.

Big problem is they need a mechanic that deters NPC-Corp macromining.


np corp wardec ...on members.. mhh. I create a corp. work done.. no more wardec. oh wait, you wardec my current corp. ok, I close the current one and create another one . takes 24h to get the wardec running so I got 24h+ some time to play one. I could do this every day...

sorry, npc corp wardec can be easily avoided.. lol. its not gonna work. CCP must work with the wardec system.. plain and simple. I know lots of people dont like it but they got no choice. They can't avoid it

Marchocias
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:50:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Marchocias on 22/09/2009 17:50:41
This is funniest thing I've read all year; most gratifying news!


Originally by: Caldor Mansi
Awesome. We need more pointless things like 1 man corps in New Eden.


Keep it coming!


Well, at least 1 man corps can be wardecced, making them potentially players of interest, rather than just background noise.

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:51:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Pirokobo

Have a monthly fee to keep a corp established.


And if you don't pay, then what? Corp will disband?

Terrible loss for 1 man corp :)

Splinter McIron
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:56:00 - [52]
 

This is a terrible idea. Why? Because I own the right to my own life. Not my corporation. A tax says that the taxing body owns all of my income, and allows me to keep a certain percentage of it (in this case, 89%). That is bull****. I make my money, I get to keep my money, all 100% of it.

You are NOT doing this to stop RMT. You have far far better ways of stopping RMT than doing this.

You ARE doing this to pander to the whiners who say high-sec mission running is too profitable.

You ARE doing this to pander to people good at social engineering (many goonswarm members come to mind, but every scammer in the game is one too) who simply want more noobs in 0.0 to shoot at so they can earn more isk/hr.

You are NOT doing this to get players out of high-sec, you are doing this to get players into PvP so that your game stops looking like a cool space-sim WoW replacement with 'safe spots" and "not safe spots".

No, No No NO! I do not agree with this proposed change. This is absurd.

Marchocias
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:58:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Ashina Sito
1) This tax does not help in getting NPC corpies out into low/0.0 space. I have spent a lot of my Eve time teaching people how to live in 0.0 space, without the need of a Player corp. If I could go out at 7 weeks old and survive Anyone could. This tax will not only hit bounties in missions but the bounties for rats in belts and exploration sites in 0.0 space. My work at getting more people out into 0.0 and doing PvP will be undermined by this tax. It is already hard enough to get people motivated to make less ISk in 0.0. The removal of the attribute implant carry over after podding (Apocrpha 1.3) compounds the problem. Every action CCP is making is making it harder for me to get people involved in PvP.


Well, if it was changed so that Empire NPC tax doesn't count in 0.0, and the 0.0 Faction NPC tax only counts within that factions jurisdiction, would that allay your concerns? It would seem to make sense that the long arm of the tax man wouldn't be able to extend very far, without interfering with CCPs core aims with this tax.

Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:59:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Pirokobo

Quote:
its legal and technically not considered griefing

The world is not fair. EVE is a sink or swim game; there is no assurance that you won't be bullied for the sake of being bullied. Might makes right and so on and so forth. Players should be compelled to be wardeccable.


Yah, but while the world isnt fair, in the real world, if your enemy can bribe the police to let them attack you, you can pay the police more to change their minds and protect you anyways. I agree with might makes right (for the game), but the game doesnt allow money to equal power. I can pay the police 2 mil a week to let me murder people, but if I want to pay a merc company to protect me it will cost way way more. Why can't I just pay the police more than you, to ignore you. Like 100 mil to the police to avoid the wardec, or make it X isk per corp member, or let there be a bidding war between the aggressor and defender.

They need an option where for X isk per week, you can't be wardecd. Naturally it would have to be something big, and would have to grow each week, and if you don't pay you have to wait a month before you can pay again. So, lets say week 1 you pay 50 mil, week 2 is 100 mil, week 3 is 200 mil, week 4 is 400 mil, and doubles every week of consecutive protection. So, 1 month of protection would be 750 mil, roughly. This would give people an out, while getting them out of NPC corps.

Just some ideas.

Andra Zeit
Posted - 2009.09.22 18:01:00 - [55]
 

Can I choose a NPC company? My friend is in an other and sometimes this brings problems on looting our missions...
But maybe we would join a beginner friendly player corp.

regards

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.09.22 18:02:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Marchocias

Well, at least 1 man corps can be wardecced, making them potentially players of interest, rather than just background noise.

Yep, potentional interest rising the number of closed corps by +1.

Azia Burgi
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.09.22 18:02:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Ashina Sito
Last bit. This will not get Ashina out of CAS. Nothing that CCP ever does will get Ashina out of CAS.
Totally agree. The only way they will get me out of STI is with a crowbar. If CCP said this was a way to curb inflation and left it at that nobody would mind. It is the fact they are trying to dictate a certain play style that annoys me.

A more interesting way to solve the inflation issue would be to link mission rewards to the income of the megacorps. The more people running missions for a corp the lower the payouts. I'm also pretty certain that the likes of Ishukone and Imperial Shipment operate at a HUGE loss. CCP should release monthly reports for these corps. From there it is only a tiny step towards a stock market. Anyway... I'm getting off topic here.

Its only an open sandbox while the big kid lets it.

Ukucia
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.22 18:04:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Marchocias
Originally by: Caldor Mansi
Awesome. We need more pointless things like 1 man corps in New Eden.


Keep it coming!


Well, at least 1 man corps can be wardecced, making them potentially players of interest, rather than just background noise.

1 man corps disband instantly.
New 1 man corps can be created instantly. And it costs less than the fee charged for a wardec.

This does nothing to provide more targets for the wanna-be PVPers who live in empire.

Marchocias
Posted - 2009.09.22 18:04:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Splinter McIron
...rant...


Cool your boots dude... it is only reasonable that NPC corps should be taxed for about the same amount as the average hisec mission runner corp is. And if you don't like it, take the plunge and play the game as it is intended to be played: with some element of risk.

Nemtar Nataal
Demonic Retribution
Posted - 2009.09.22 18:14:00 - [60]
 

You should have used this quote insted of quoting Roosevelt

"Nothing is certain but death and taxes"


Pages: first : previous : 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (18)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only