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Pith Exterminator
Posted - 2009.12.01 20:16:00 - [451]
 

It may have something to do with what they are trying to make you get used to in real life : everything must be paid and registered . And is a bad thing .

Archess Nei
Posted - 2009.12.01 20:24:00 - [452]
 

As a person who has been playing Eve for a little over 3 months I can attest to how hard it is for a new player to earn isk. I was once in a pc and got tired of all the war dec's. I've been in my npc for most of my time here and have made a few good friends. Now this 11% tax on my hard earned isk is a slap in the face. Thinking it will push people into more well established pc is foolish thinking. Most people will either eat the loss, make a 1 man corp and join a chat channel or join a pc, in that order. So thinking this will help resolve the issue about people living in npc corps was poorly thought out. The game is advertised as a sandbox style game and now your forcing me to either abandon the friends I made in corp chat to avoid the complete loss of 11% of my isk or eat it. I will do neither. I doubt if I will renew my subscription to Eve when it runs out.
Instead of punishing people who don't play Eve the way the Dev team plays how about making joining a pc more attractive. 1 idea is a fleet bonus only available to pc, mining yield bonus, increased research speed etc. How about no taxes on toons with less than 1.6 mil sp then after that 5% an goes up 2% for every mill in sp up to 25%. If you give people only the stick with no carrot eventually they will hit back and vote with their wallet.

K Leb
Prism Xs Wet Dream
Posted - 2009.12.01 20:45:00 - [453]
 

Quote:
Your request to create a corporation has been turned down. In order to create a corporation you should have the funds to do so. Currently the startup cost is 1599800 ISK


LOL Nice one CCP Razz

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.12.01 21:02:00 - [454]
 

I'll just confirm that all my mission running mains and alts have completed creating tax avoidance corp.
This'll of.c. mean they'll not have much interaction with or helping other players and noobs, but since this is what CCP wants, I'm happy to comply :-)

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2009.12.01 21:10:00 - [455]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
I'll just confirm that all my mission running mains and alts have completed creating tax avoidance corp.
This'll of.c. mean they'll not have much interaction with or helping other players and noobs, but since this is what CCP wants, I'm happy to comply :-)
CCP: Shooting itself in both feet since 2003.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.12.01 21:39:00 - [456]
 

Originally by: K Leb
Quote:
Your request to create a corporation has been turned down. In order to create a corporation you should have the funds to do so. Currently the startup cost is 1599800 ISK


LOL Nice one CCP Razz

No changes there... This is how it was before.

Danieros Eric
Posted - 2009.12.01 22:17:00 - [457]
 

You shouldn't be reducing normal benefits, after all with this change the major general reaction to it will be solo PCs to avoid taxes, which do not contribute to socialization in EVE and also reduces potential newbie help in NPC Corp chat.

Instead of reducing benefits of being in a NPC, you should increase the benefits for being in a PC.

Either that or make a flexible taxation system that is dynamic to our relative standing (going from maybe a starting 25% at 0.0 or less to a potential 0% tax at 10.0 standing), and allow players to join any NPC they wish, after all you now have taxes anyway. Also newbies shouldn't be paying taxes, at least while under the 2x skill training speed bonus and something like a 30-day grace period when it's your first NPC.

The easiest change in a coding difficulty view point is not necessarily the best one in sub count.

Aurfan
Posted - 2009.12.01 22:28:00 - [458]
 

Edited by: Aurfan on 01/12/2009 22:32:12
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Edited by: CCP Prism X on 22/09/2009 15:12:10
For my part, I had wet dreams about making it 100%.. cause I really dislike people farming ISK with immunity and intending to sell it through RMT. Thankfully they don't let draconian little me design stuff. Laughing

Don't be an arse. CCP or not.

We're not all RMT trading ISK farmers. I like missions. Tried corps, alliances, 0.0, lowsec pirating. 50 mil SP and counting. The problem is that when an experienced player who can only play once or twice a week and has to be away from the game for weeks at a time gets forced into a PC corp, he gets yanked around and even ripped off by his corpmates.

You want everyone in a PC corp, get rid of the NPC corps. Want isk farming to stop, remove missions and mining.

(Moral of the story, think before you open your big mouth. Overly generalizing things insults people. People who pay your blinking salary.)

Also, you must not be familiar with U.S. History. Which is fine in priciple, but there's a lesson at the beginning of the American Revolutionary War that applies directly here. Happened in Boston. Colloquially known as the Boston Tea Party. "No taxation without representation!" If you're going to apply a tax, the people paying will need a reason to pay. A perq, in-game.

Passageway
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.01 22:33:00 - [459]
 

For everyone bemoaning players ending up in 1 man corps and reducing social interaction, do what I did. Start a 1 man corp, join (faction) chat, constellation chat and - most importantly - Eve Radio chat, never be lonely again :D

- doesn't work for Eve Radio :)

Gypsywuff
Posted - 2009.12.01 22:38:00 - [460]
 

I'm likely one of those folks CCP would like to have joining pc corps having been with the game roughly 6 months now. The tax itself really doesn't impact me personally since I mostly mine which I find relaxing...your milage may vary. It will make it less likely that I'll take up mission running since the payoff will be 11% less. The change probably also makes it less likely that I'll join a pc corp since a careful read of this thread shows the risks are many and the rewards few. Sure, CCP can up the NPC corp penalities to the point I'd leave, although at that point whether it would be the corp or game I'd be leaving would be open.

Highsec PVP in eve is not unlike many other MMOs. Its not 1v1 with players having equal skills. Its about someone with 3-4 years of skills trying to take out a new player or even a fleet of gankers trying the same thing. I've played wow and pvp there was much the same...all about lvl 80 characters ganking lvl 20 alts in noob zones for your typical pvp server. Make wardec fees EXPENSIVE....several billion ISK..the cost of a titan or more. Wars are never cheap so why should a wardec be? This prevents the kind of one man gank highsec wardecs you see but still allows decent size corps to happily pvp with each other after showing they are serious about it.

If you want to get people to join PC corps, give them a few carrots and take away some of the disincentives. Make highsec so you can't be wardec'd and killed there...if folks want to pvp, then head to low/00 space. This would remove one major penalty from joining a highsec pc corp. Make 'theft' a concord offense and you'd lose the can flippers and ninja salvagers. Improve the corp controls so bad apples can be punished/removed and conversely give corps less ability to screw up a player. Finally, give the corp something to do together beyond simply killing each other. Guilds in wow form to tackle higher level content that is not soloable. Beyond high level pvp, eve has no comparable pve based activity to raids/instances. Give people a reason and they'll join a corp.

My two cents...I can live with the change, although the direction rings warning bells for me.

Marco Bolo
Posted - 2009.12.01 22:48:00 - [461]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
Analogies comparing eve to real life dont really work tbh...
Im against the npc tax for one reason- it doesnt accomplish anything but take away the npc chat channel. Thats all it does.

The tax can be avoided by simply joining a one man corp. If you wardek that corp they will just make another. The tax is a choice- 11% of your bounties and mission rewards for using npc corp chat or form a one man corp.

Obviously most are going to go the one man corp route. And so what? It is a game- let them play how they want. Prolly over 80% of eve players are hisec only players- Null players prolly account for bit over 10% of total population. Somewhere along the line the more self rightous null players decided they were somehow important- and the others were "playing the game wrong".

My previous comment (quoted above) was mainly because you seem to disagree with the change because it doesnt go far enough. (in reality the change does nothing see above)
But you never did put your version of a "fix"- would be interesting to see how you would make over 80% of eve play the game how you think it should be played.

[/quote



Exactly, does this make me quit the game? It probably will. As i'm paying RL money to play it, wtf is CCP doing thinking they can also charge me game money to play it, or dictate how I wish to play. I came to this game from another paid MMO because they were imposing too many restrictions on gameplay. That's like Microsoft charging you 10 cents every time you use notepad after you paid for windows.
There are 2 reasons I haven't joined a player corp - because I haven't found one I like or trust - and because I have friends in FNA I don't want to lose touch with.
And the arguments of "well you and your friends should form your own corp", yeah and watch it dwindle and die like most do and have no way of getting back.
And those of you - including dev's that say "oh suck it up it's only 11%", it's not about the money, it's about you trying to herd me like i'm a frickin sheep.

Marco Bolo
Posted - 2009.12.01 23:16:00 - [462]
 

Just read up and saw Aurfan's post - I got your back brother..........well said

DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2009.12.02 02:07:00 - [463]
 

I've been in NPC corp ever since I started playing this game and I've learned a lot from 'older' members who have left the NPC corp. I and a few others are now the 'older' members that help new players. Most new players can't get answers to questions from the Noobie chat and let's face it, it has so many players on it that the text goes by so fast you wouldn't see the answer even if it was repeated twice in a row. As for the 'Help' channel, you might as well call it the 'Graveyard' channel. I had a problem a few months ago and went to it and all I got was idea's that I had already tried and when a GM eventually did answer, it was rude and didn't even address my problem. After 3 days and 2 petitions, the problem was resolved.

In the past I've been asked to join a lot of player corps. The main reason I stay in the NPC corp is to help the new players. I don't know where the idea/statement came from about 'older' members of NPC corps making a ton of tax free isk. That statement is so far from the truth that it would take a million light-years just to get in sight of it.

This game was great for the fact that a player had lot's of different options on how to play. Now it seems that those option's are being taken away. Also I'm being told that this game was intended to be PvP? If that was true, then why is there NPC agents with missions, NPC pirates, etc. CCP really needs to wake up and take a good look at this game.

As for paying a tax on mission pay, rewards and NPC bounty's, why is it only being imposed on member's of NPC corps? That right there is a clear case of discrimination and is close to being a 'Grief' tactic.

Placing a 'Tax' on that is fine as long as it's being imposed upon everyone, including player corp members as well. And while you're at it, make sure the low security/0.0 NPC Pirate bounty's are taxed as well. I know a lot of player corp members that make millions of isk quickly from those which is way more than I could ever make from a level 4 mission.


Leyline777
NailorTech Industries
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.02 03:13:00 - [464]
 

Originally by: Ms Iustitia
Originally by: Leyline777
Originally by: Kerfira
Edited by: Kerfira on 22/09/2009 15:13:25
stuff



I for one look forward to this change as it helps push players out into (defensible) player corps. I agree that they shouldnt bone the NPE up as that hurts the game and is downright unfair to the newbies. I dont think taxes should hit you for the first 3 months but thats just me. This will push the others out there that are hiding behind npc immunity into what the game is supposed to be about (consequences). As for the "creation of thousands of 1 man corps" I look forward to that as there are those like me that provide the, shall we say, darwinian edge to the game which will be more than happy to war dec all those solo players out of existence and into more cohesive multi man corps (thus added social interaction).

As for your "points":
1. Player corps arent supplied " the same services for free" (main service of npc corp being you cant be wardecced). Player corps are susceptible to outside threats Twisted Evil
2. 1 man player corp has NO protections (besides dock n hide). Try taking on 20-30 dedicated players who have multiple decs out (looking for your nice npc faction fit officer loot ... errr ship.
3. They wont, or at least not for long YARRRR!! I can swear that those of us that have the good of eve in mind and soul Laughing will kill them off looong before this becomes an issue.

Have a good day.

Oh and npc corpers either wish to avoid being a target or wardecs, no taxes (the rmt *****s), or they like solo play. If you like solo dont play an mmo :).

Cheers


just gonna set some misconceptions straight, RMTs are organised, if you think they're solo players just running missions day in and day out, i think you're wrong, it would have taken considerable amount of time to accumulate isk, and running missions on purposes of RMT is just stupid, manufacturing, mining, and/or trading and such would much more be profitable and requiring less on-hand time, which means you can box multiple accounts.

pardon me, but i'm a solo player, if i choose an MMO to play solo, its my business and its my decision and quit yacking about it, oh, btw, MMO stands for what? "Massively Multiplayer Online" game or role-playing game, where does the word PvP in there? or the phrase "Player Versus Player"?

and i don't think it's clearly defined that "MMO" should and always mean "PvP", maybe in your dictionary, but not in mine nor thru all the searches i made. :))

hehe, if you have to contradict something, make a solid point.


You must not know rmt ppl (i do i spend my time on alts ganking them in hisec after forcing them to flee into the npc corps) I never said they work solo but they DO use npc corps to avoid wardecs and nothing in npc corp prevents them from working together... (ever seen the mass of ravens in motsu with no corp history (or failing that super large corp history) named ajd9-23i-e9i39-uidmf ?). I never said it had to be focused on pvp but eve's so called sandbox (which it never has been really) is that you are never ever ever 100% safe, its supposed to be real.. aka i could walk up and shoot you irl but i prob wont because of the cause and effect that would have. Same deal with how it is supposed to work in eve. I dont think that should be imposed on the newbies merely because that would make NPE suck big ones. I feel that they should be protected yes but not for ever.

If you choose to play a massively multiplayer online game by yourself you are welcome to but noone should shield you :). If you can play by yourself and deal with (or avoid) any menaces that might look your way, more power to you. If you wish to be in a corp that is not capable of being a war target then you should pay a tax (imo quite a lot higher than what they are creating atm). Tbh i think this will have a very tiny effect either way but I believe it is a good change.

Leyline777
NailorTech Industries
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.02 03:18:00 - [465]
 

Originally by: DeMichael Crimson

"snip"

As for paying a tax on mission pay, rewards and NPC bounty's, why is it only being imposed on member's of NPC corps? That right there is a clear case of discrimination and is close to being a 'Grief' tactic.

Placing a 'Tax' on that is fine as long as it's being imposed upon everyone, including player corp members as well. And while you're at it, make sure the low security/0.0 NPC Pirate bounty's are taxed as well. I know a lot of player corp members that make millions of isk quickly from those which is way more than I could ever make from a level 4 mission.




1. players in player corps are in more danger than you are (or at least more potential danger.
2. low sec and 0.0 npc bounties are generally speaking taxed by the pc entities that hold them but even if they weren't, again they are making more isk because they are also risking more isk. There is nothing there (no concord nada) to protect them, if you want risk free isk enjoy the mediocre returns of an empire toon (tbh you can make tons of iskies in empire you just have be a tad smarter than the average tool) (heck if you like lvl 4s so much just make 2 or 3 alt accounts and you can bust out the missions in a heart beat and pay for your accounts in iskies to boot.).

That said its about risk v reward; that is what they are trying to do and I for one applaud them.

Leyline777
NailorTech Industries
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.02 03:24:00 - [466]
 

Originally by: Archess Nei
As a person who has been playing Eve for a little over 3 months I can attest to how hard it is for a new player to earn isk. I was once in a pc and got tired of all the war dec's. I've been in my npc for most of my time here and have made a few good friends. Now this 11% tax on my hard earned isk is a slap in the face. Thinking it will push people into more well established pc is foolish thinking. Most people will either eat the loss, make a 1 man corp and join a chat channel or join a pc, in that order. So thinking this will help resolve the issue about people living in npc corps was poorly thought out. The game is advertised as a sandbox style game and now your forcing me to either abandon the friends I made in corp chat to avoid the complete loss of 11% of my isk or eat it. I will do neither. I doubt if I will renew my subscription to Eve when it runs out.
Instead of punishing people who don't play Eve the way the Dev team plays how about making joining a pc more attractive. 1 idea is a fleet bonus only available to pc, mining yield bonus, increased research speed etc. How about no taxes on toons with less than 1.6 mil sp then after that 5% an goes up 2% for every mill in sp up to 25%. If you give people only the stick with no carrot eventually they will hit back and vote with their wallet.


1 question... before you quit can i have your stuff? Also Ill take all the stuff from those that are quitting as well. Think of it as garbage processing... i promise my alts refine skills are high enough :).

Gavin McStine
Gallente
M.A.G.E.C
Posted - 2009.12.02 09:07:00 - [467]
 

Edited by: Gavin McStine on 02/12/2009 09:19:58
"•NPC corporations are meant to be temporary spaces where people can go about their daily activities while searching for a player corporation. Currently the level of comfort they provide, both in terms of war declaration immunity and 0% tax, give them an inherent advantage over player corporations which was never intended. Hopefully, this will let player corporations compete on equal footing with NPC corporations."

So then why are player corps getting taxed too. 50.0% tax levied by "corp name" on pirate bounty prizes of 100,000.00 isk or more. Were being payed the bounty because concord cant afford to do it them selfs. You dont hire a hitman to do a job then tax him afterwords.

Kind make this point mute. If were paying taxes on bounty then why are corps being charged every month for offices? what about sales tax. Repair Fees. Oh and what if your killing pirates in 0.0 you know where concord is none existant?

Way to **** that one up.

Heres an idea how about all the players tax CCP 1$ for every months subcription?

Meloric
Posted - 2009.12.02 09:10:00 - [468]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X
Edited by: CCP Prism X on 22/09/2009 15:12:10
Originally by: Aethrwolf
while I am all for taxes in the npc corps for pretty much the same reasons stated, there are probably better carrots you could give player corps.


This change hardly means that no further changes will be made on NPC corps. Wink
It was just a low hanging fruit, involving little to no coding for me, with readily available data, for the designers to work with, so it was a no-brainer as a first choice. We have to be careful when we're messing with the NPE as your first days of income tend to matter. Thankfully L1s have such a horrendous ISK generation that I doubt either reward will be enough to break the tax bracket threshold (..wait.. is that good?!).

For my part, I had wet dreams about making it 100%.. cause I really dislike people farming ISK with immunity and intending to sell it through RMT. Thankfully they don't let draconian little me design stuff. Laughing


They shouldn't allow you to talk to the customers either as this has to be one of the most ignorant CCP posts that I can recall seeing. Yes, lets call all our customers up in Empire space a bunch of cowardly isk farmers and RMTers. Oh and a class act to tell us about your sexual fantasies. Seriously you do realize that all of us are your customers?

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2009.12.02 10:24:00 - [469]
 

Originally by: Leyline777


1 question... before you quit can i have your stuff? Also Ill take all the stuff from those that are quitting as well. Think of it as garbage processing... i promise my alts refine skills are high enough :).
Originality not your strong point, is it?

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.12.02 11:14:00 - [470]
 

Originally by: Gavin McStine
Edited by: Gavin McStine on 02/12/2009 09:19:58
"•NPC corporations are meant to be temporary spaces where people can go about their daily activities while searching for a player corporation.

I dont want to be in a player corp- a lot of ppl dont. Ppl have a variety of reasons, one of them being a player corp requires a high level of activity.

Originally by: Gavin McStine
Currently the level of comfort they provide, both in terms of war declaration immunity and 0% tax, give them an inherent advantage over player corporations which was never intended. Hopefully, this will let player corporations compete on equal footing with NPC corporations."


Advantages? hardly- in an npc corp i am not wardekable. In a player corp- i can leave the corp at will. My corp can join an alliance and then immediately leave. Anyone who wants to be undekable- is. It has nothing to do with being in an npc corp.

Now what about the disadvantages of being in an npc corp? Like the not being able to anchor pos'es among other things.

Originally by: Gavin McStine
So then why are player corps getting taxed too. 50.0% tax levied by "corp name" on pirate bounty prizes of 100,000.00 isk or more. Were being payed the bounty because concord cant afford to do it them selfs. You dont hire a hitman to do a job then tax him afterwords.

Thats is a glitch already in the known issues thread. It will be fixed shortly im sure.

Originally by: Gavin McStine
Kind make this point mute. If were paying taxes on bounty then why are corps being charged every month for offices? what about sales tax. Repair Fees. Oh and what if your killing pirates in 0.0 you know where concord is none existant?

I dont even know what your point here is. Repair fees, office rentals and the like- do not pay for concord. It is a service you use that you pay for. Dont pretend npc corps are special- we pay repair bills too.

Originally by: Gavin McStine
Way to **** that one up.

Heres an idea how about all the players tax CCP 1$ for every months subcription?


Way to insult the company. Ive said it before and ill say it again- if i ran ccp i would permaban any player acting in such a disrespectful manner.

xarjin
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.12.02 11:19:00 - [471]
 

Edited by: xarjin on 02/12/2009 11:21:02
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson
I've been in NPC corp ever since I started playing this game and I've learned a lot from 'older' members who have left the NPC corp. I and a few others are now the 'older' members that help new players. Most new players can't get answers to questions from the Noobie chat and let's face it, it has so many players on it that the text goes by so fast you wouldn't see the answer even if it was repeated twice in a row. As for the 'Help' channel, you might as well call it the 'Graveyard' channel. I had a problem a few months ago and went to it and all I got was idea's that I had already tried and when a GM eventually did answer, it was rude and didn't even address my problem. After 3 days and 2 petitions, the problem was resolved.

In the past I've been asked to join a lot of player corps. The main reason I stay in the NPC corp is to help the new players. I don't know where the idea/statement came from about 'older' members of NPC corps making a ton of tax free isk. That statement is so far from the truth that it would take a million light-years just to get in sight of it.

This game was great for the fact that a player had lot's of different options on how to play. Now it seems that those option's are being taken away. Also I'm being told that this game was intended to be PvP? If that was true, then why is there NPC agents with missions, NPC pirates, etc. CCP really needs to wake up and take a good look at this game.

As for paying a tax on mission pay, rewards and NPC bounty's, why is it only being imposed on member's of NPC corps? That right there is a clear case of discrimination and is close to being a 'Grief' tactic.

Placing a 'Tax' on that is fine as long as it's being imposed upon everyone, including player corp members as well. And while you're at it, make sure the low security/0.0 NPC Pirate bounty's are taxed as well. I know a lot of player corp members that make millions of isk quickly from those which is way more than I could ever make from a level 4 mission.




I have no intention of paying for a game subscription to be forced into pvp. EVE for from the start for much of the new subscriber population is missioning or mining. None of the wardec/unsolicted pvp mechanics are really of any interest and more often are related to negative comments reflecting on eve's bully vs the mouse eat or be eaten methodology from people i've discussed the game with. unless ccp can radically change the skill training system to a level where new players can be competitive with older players without having to spend years training skills this whole motive of moving players out of npc corporations will be a huge undeserved burden on many newer players.

Drilla
Yet Another Mining Corp
Posted - 2009.12.02 12:16:00 - [472]
 

The easy and quick solution to this problem is so simple:

Make level 4 agents refuse to hand out missions to anyone in a NPC corp.
Make undocking/jumping/flying/whatever a capital ship or a barge in a NPC corp impossible.

Done - all fixed

And by NPC I don't mean militia.

Ms Iustitia
Posted - 2009.12.02 12:25:00 - [473]
 

Edited by: Ms Iustitia on 02/12/2009 12:32:38
Originally by: Leyline777
Originally by: Ms Iustitia
Originally by: Leyline777
Originally by: Kerfira
Edited by: Kerfira on 22/09/2009 15:13:25
stuff


You must not know rmt ppl (i do i spend my time on alts ganking them in hisec after forcing them to flee into the npc corps) I never said they work solo but they DO use npc corps to avoid wardecs and nothing in npc corp prevents them from working together... (ever seen the mass of ravens in motsu with no corp history (or failing that super large corp history) named ajd9-23i-e9i39-uidmf ?). I never said it had to be focused on pvp but eve's so called sandbox (which it never has been really) is that you are never ever ever 100% safe, its supposed to be real.. aka i could walk up and shoot you irl but i prob wont because of the cause and effect that would have. Same deal with how it is supposed to work in eve. I dont think that should be imposed on the newbies merely because that would make NPE suck big ones. I feel that they should be protected yes but not for ever.

If you choose to play a massively multiplayer online game by yourself you are welcome to but noone should shield you :). If you can play by yourself and deal with (or avoid) any menaces that might look your way, more power to you. If you wish to be in a corp that is not capable of being a war target then you should pay a tax (imo quite a lot higher than what they are creating atm). Tbh i think this will have a very tiny effect either way but I believe it is a good change.


hehe, either you're high or just full of it thinking you tracked or able to track RMTs that easily, i'm a solo player, as my skills move on, i'll collect ships after ships as long as i could get my hands on it and be able to afford it, and i'll stick it out with an NPC corp, so by then, if i'm gonna fly Faction ravens or pirate battleships or chance up to purchase some ships like the "mimir" or tourney prizes ships, i'd be considered or be surmised as an RMT hence my history is literally blank?

i'm not asking for a shield, but when you say "PvE" and "PvP" content, it supposedly mean as it is, am i right? i personally choose this game after gone tired of WoW coz 1> i'm a sci-fi fanatic, and 2> it has "PvE" & "PvP" content, i didn't choose first person shooters coz, you've guessed it, i hate "PvP".

in a way you're contradicting yourself anyways, if you consider it a sandbox, people should be left alone to choose how they play it, but even pre-dominion, it has always been more ganker-friendly, no fleet aggro on NPC corpmates and such, 15 minutes aggression timer? too short for a planned retaliation. kill rights? should last until you get even. ninja salvagers can call in back up, but being in an NPC Corp you can't call a back up even to peeps you're already in fleet with, now tell me, is it really fair?

if CCP wants to make this game all PvP, get rid of NPC Corps, get rid of mission agents, get rid of NPC interactions, and advertise it as such. less confusion that way, and i wouldn't be here taking some peeps time reading my posts, hehe. :))

before i forget, i think the general rule for a successful RMT is being "LOWKEY" or "LOW PROFILE", unless you bump into retrievers/hulks running on scripts/macro :))

Gavin McStine
Gallente
M.A.G.E.C
Posted - 2009.12.02 13:33:00 - [474]
 

Originally by: Gavin McStine
Way to **** that one up.

Heres an idea how about all the players tax CCP 1$ for every months subcription?


Way to insult the company. Ive said it before and ill say it again- if i ran ccp i would permaban any player acting in such a disrespectful manner.


Its called performance evaluation, and as a paying player im alowed to voice my option.

DeMont Cruiser
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2009.12.02 13:59:00 - [475]
 

Originally by: Leyline777
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson

"snip"

As for paying a tax on mission pay, rewards and NPC bounty's, why is it only being imposed on member's of NPC corps? That right there is a clear case of discrimination and is close to being a 'Grief' tactic.

Placing a 'Tax' on that is fine as long as it's being imposed upon everyone, including player corp members as well. And while you're at it, make sure the low security/0.0 NPC Pirate bounty's are taxed as well. I know a lot of player corp members that make millions of isk quickly from those which is way more than I could ever make from a level 4 mission.




1. players in player corps are in more danger than you are (or at least more potential danger.
2. low sec and 0.0 npc bounties are generally speaking taxed by the pc entities that hold them but even if they weren't, again they are making more isk because they are also risking more isk. There is nothing there (no concord nada) to protect them, if you want risk free isk enjoy the mediocre returns of an empire toon (tbh you can make tons of iskies in empire you just have be a tad smarter than the average tool) (heck if you like lvl 4s so much just make 2 or 3 alt accounts and you can bust out the missions in a heart beat and pay for your accounts in iskies to boot.).

That said its about risk v reward; that is what they are trying to do and I for one applaud them.


Risk v reward, lets examine this a bit.

You're in a player corp that belongs to an Alliance that controls an area of 0.0 and if anyone not part of the alliance enters that area, they would be killed asap by all members of the alliance, meanwhile you're safe and sound. If someone did manage to get close to you, steal from you or if by chance were able to shoot at you, you and all your corp-mates would jump on him like a pack of wild dogs. Oh yeah, real big risk. Reward = super big bounty's on NPC's.

I'm in a NPC corp that belongs to a NPC alliance which controls an area in high sec and allows all players to enter if they have above -5.00 faction standing with a half way decent security status. Meanwhile I think I'm safe till someone attacks me and blows up my ship which then Concord kills them while his buddy/corp-mate steals from me. None of the members in my corp are allowed to help me yet the thief can have his corp-mates help him if I attack him or take my cargo back. Oh yeah, real safe. Reward = small to medium bounty's on NPC's.

The trade off for that is tax free for NPC corp members and no wardec which you should be glad about. I would love to have NPC corps able to do wardec. I can see it now, NPC corp-mates would swarm player corps like a hoard of angry bee's all over a big bear. In fact, all the player corps/alliances had better hope that the members of NPC corps don't band together and form a corp/alliance of their own.

Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2009.12.02 17:13:00 - [476]
 

For the Mission Running crowd:

This 11% tax is only 11% if you don't loot/salvage. If you do the tax reduces from 11% (no loot / salvage) to 3.41% (if you do loot and salvage everything). Those numbers come from earlier in the thread, and other "nerf lvl 4 missions, hurf/blurf" threads. So the tax impact will not be very great.

As for being immune to war-decs? Leaving a corp (at any time, for any reason) is not an exploit (can't be arsed to find the dev response, but it is out there) as long as the corp you leave does NOT fold (i.e. - the corp is still carrying the war-dec). Make two alts, train a couple hours, make a corp, profit.

Secondly, one-man corps aren't going to get war-dec'd (unless the person really ****es off someone). People in Hi-Sec pvp corps want targets. LOTS of targets. One person, who may or may not log in? Not worth so much...

So, the probability that you will get dec'd is pretty much 0%, and if you do, you can avoid it pretty easily.

This change is stupid (lol @ CCP "low hanging fruit"). People who want to be in Player Corps are, People who want to be in PC's are, people who want to be in low-sec are and people who want to be in 0.0 are. This change to game mechanics will do nothing for those numbers because it doesn't address the cause of why people stay in NPC corps, Hi-Sec or whatever... just a symptom.

CCP - missing the point again...Rolling Eyes



Nerakus
Posted - 2009.12.02 17:52:00 - [477]
 

This is ridiculous.

First of all, what the hell is the point? Nobody in an NPC corp is there because they want to avoid paying taxes. They are there because they want to do their own thing. Some player corps run their selves in an almost militaristic manner - assigning roles, dictating how much time a player must dedicate to corp activities and so on and so forth.

Second, as a much earlier poster pointed out, EVE was designed around the "sandbox" concept - different people have different play styles, so they should be able to pursue those styles. By trying to force people into player corps, you're showing INCREDIBLE favor towards those player corps. Why are you trying to cater to them and them alone? Why do they hold your preference?

If people want to fight, participate in PvP, have war-decs and perform various other activities, let them do so. If people want to do their own thing up in hi-sec, let them. It isn't like people in NPC corps are getting anything for free. If they need repairs, they pay for them at a repair shop. If they need a clone, they pay for them. If people need to use a lab - be it for research or production - they pay for it. Not only do they pay for it in ISK, they pay for it in massive amounts of waiting time. For that matter, NPC corps give or do nothing for a player that would warrant a tax.

So, aside from possibly avoiding a war dec (I say possibly because there is always the chance of the infamous hi-sec gank), what benefits does ANYONE think someone gains from being in an NPC corp? If you want to swell your ranks, do the work yourselves. Recruit actively. Create incentive for people to want to join you. Form ranks of players that enjoy doing similar things and let them. Don't be lazy in your efforts to fatten your corp wallet.

If people don't want to enter a player corp, that should be their choice. Taxing them accomplishes nothing other than ****ing people off.

Between being disconnected all the time, being told "The Socket Was Closed" and, now, being shoved in the direction CCP and player corps THINK I should go, I'm not exactly sure why I should continue to play EVE.

Should I REALLY pay for a game I'm only getting to play in small increments of time? When I AM able to play, should I REALLY have to pay for the lack of gaming freedom that is being suggested with the idea of taxing people into joining player corps? If you want to tax people, fine - but you should do it for the sake of making it realistic, not for the sake of pushing people in the direction of joining a player corp.

How disgustingly partial of CCP and anyone else backing the idea.

Navell Phora
Posted - 2009.12.02 18:38:00 - [478]
 

1. Create an alt with the same race as your main
2. Buy the corp skill (50k) and train 1 level of it
3. Make the corp, make a nice logo and imaginative name for it. Set the corp to accept new players and logout. Creating a corp costs about 1.5M or so. With 11% tax that will pay back when you have made 13,5 million isk. A bit more if you also salvage and collect loot. Set the corp tax to 0 if you want.
4. Log in with your main, apply to the said corp and logout
5. Log in with your alt and accept the application
6. Set the corp to not accept new applicants. Logout
7. Go back doing what you were doing

Total cost: 1,55 million. Total profit. Per billion isk earned you save about from 30 to 110M in taxes. Time it takes is about an hour if you fiddle with the corp logo.

If you want to be 100% sure you're safe in your new corp don't chat and post on forums. Avoid being noticed. Sadly this can also mean avoiding all interaction with other players.

Leyline777
NailorTech Industries
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.02 19:20:00 - [479]
 



Risk v reward, lets examine this a bit.

You're in a player corp that belongs to an Alliance that controls an area of 0.0 and if anyone not part of the alliance enters that area, they would be killed asap by all members of the alliance, meanwhile you're safe and sound. If someone did manage to get close to you, steal from you or if by chance were able to shoot at you, you and all your corp-mates would jump on him like a pack of wild dogs. Oh yeah, real big risk. Reward = super big bounty's on NPC's.

I'm in a NPC corp that belongs to a NPC alliance which controls an area in high sec and allows all players to enter if they have above -5.00 faction standing with a half way decent security status. Meanwhile I think I'm safe till someone attacks me and blows up my ship which then Concord kills them while his buddy/corp-mate steals from me. None of the members in my corp are allowed to help me yet the thief can have his corp-mates help him if I attack him or take my cargo back. Oh yeah, real safe. Reward = small to medium bounty's on NPC's.

The trade off for that is tax free for NPC corp members and no wardec which you should be glad about. I would love to have NPC corps able to do wardec. I can see it now, NPC corp-mates would swarm player corps like a hoard of angry bee's all over a big bear. In fact, all the player corps/alliances had better hope that the members of NPC corps don't band together and form a corp/alliance of their own.


Youve obviously not been in 0.0 ever... there are very few places where a well skilled pvper cant cause a very large amount of damage or hassle for ratters/ mission runners etc. even in places like tpar and period basis you can generally cause havoc before they get you locked down if you know what youre doing. Concord is so much more effective and quick than any player alliance can be so dont give me that im not protected bull****... if they manage to gank you you just suck at fitting or got super unlucky (or are really blind to those nice blinking target reticles).

Evilteffy
Caldari
Posted - 2009.12.02 19:57:00 - [480]
 

Why does CCP feel it should penalise PAYING subscribers for their lifestyle & preference. Which is what this NPC Taxation is doing.
Are they going to lower the Subscription fees By said 11%? to cover those casual gamers that can barely make ISK before they Lose ships to Suicide ganking or Stupid mission mistakes.





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