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maximus sotar
Posted - 2009.11.29 12:25:00 - [421]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: maximus sotar
This tax system is flawed, 11% for NPC corp... eve is just gonna see thousands and thousands of 1 man corps made up of their main and alts... who will still dodge tax, and farm missions in empire with no penalty. the only thing is now they can be war dec'ed. empire is still gonna be the same old thing with mission farmers and traders...meh.


I think i have a solution. CCP should ask maximus sotar if everyones corp meets his standards. If the standards arent up to par- 100% tax on that person.

I think this would work much better then just letting ppl play the game how they wish to play.


that's like saying live your life tax free.... no income tax, no GST, etc.. even when u own your own business u pay tax regardless. and even now in 0.0 we have to pay upkeep to hold space... what do u pay in empire? nothing but ammo to run the same missions day in day out? empire is like a 5* hotel.. its got the pool, spa, gym, shops, whatever u want... and its free as it stands....and will continue so until some other in game tax system is introduced. as for the corps meeting my standards...i dont give a ^&*( what u do in game. i chose a corp out of empire so i could be part of something instead of being playing boring missions day in day out, or spamming Jita local with bull****. all i can say is simple things amuse simple minds. have fun in empire!

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.11.29 13:32:00 - [422]
 

Originally by: maximus sotar
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: maximus sotar
This tax system is flawed, 11% for NPC corp... eve is just gonna see thousands and thousands of 1 man corps made up of their main and alts... who will still dodge tax, and farm missions in empire with no penalty. the only thing is now they can be war dec'ed. empire is still gonna be the same old thing with mission farmers and traders...meh.


I think i have a solution. CCP should ask maximus sotar if everyones corp meets his standards. If the standards arent up to par- 100% tax on that person.

I think this would work much better then just letting ppl play the game how they wish to play.


that's like saying live your life tax free.... no income tax, no GST, etc.. even when u own your own business u pay tax regardless. and even now in 0.0 we have to pay upkeep to hold space... what do u pay in empire? nothing but ammo to run the same missions day in day out? empire is like a 5* hotel.. its got the pool, spa, gym, shops, whatever u want... and its free as it stands....and will continue so until some other in game tax system is introduced. as for the corps meeting my standards...i dont give a ^&*( what u do in game. i chose a corp out of empire so i could be part of something instead of being playing boring missions day in day out, or spamming Jita local with bull****. all i can say is simple things amuse simple minds. have fun in empire!


Analogies comparing eve to real life dont really work tbh...
Im against the npc tax for one reason- it doesnt accomplish anything but take away the npc chat channel. Thats all it does.

The tax can be avoided by simply joining a one man corp. If you wardek that corp they will just make another. The tax is a choice- 11% of your bounties and mission rewards for using npc corp chat or form a one man corp.

Obviously most are going to go the one man corp route. And so what? It is a game- let them play how they want. Prolly over 80% of eve players are hisec only players- Null players prolly account for bit over 10% of total population. Somewhere along the line the more self rightous null players decided they were somehow important- and the others were "playing the game wrong".

My previous comment (quoted above) was mainly because you seem to disagree with the change because it doesnt go far enough. (in reality the change does nothing see above)
But you never did put your version of a "fix"- would be interesting to see how you would make over 80% of eve play the game how you think it should be played.


CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.29 13:36:00 - [423]
 

A small note on player feedback:

Earlier in the thread, some of you voiced your concern that you'd like to join Faction Warfare, but were afraid of doing so because you'd ruin your standings with another faction permanently.

Our decision to allow players to use some level 1 agents, regardless of standings, is a direct product of that feedback.

Thanks for the feedback Cool

maximus sotar
Posted - 2009.11.29 14:12:00 - [424]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: maximus sotar
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: maximus sotar
This tax system is flawed, 11% for NPC corp... eve is just gonna see thousands and thousands of 1 man corps made up of their main and alts... who will still dodge tax, and farm missions in empire with no penalty. the only thing is now they can be war dec'ed. empire is still gonna be the same old thing with mission farmers and traders...meh.


I think i have a solution. CCP should ask maximus sotar if everyones corp meets his standards. If the standards arent up to par- 100% tax on that person.

I think this would work much better then just letting ppl play the game how they wish to play.


that's like saying live your life tax free.... no income tax, no GST, etc.. even when u own your own business u pay tax regardless. and even now in 0.0 we have to pay upkeep to hold space... what do u pay in empire? nothing but ammo to run the same missions day in day out? empire is like a 5* hotel.. its got the pool, spa, gym, shops, whatever u want... and its free as it stands....and will continue so until some other in game tax system is introduced. as for the corps meeting my standards...i dont give a ^&*( what u do in game. i chose a corp out of empire so i could be part of something instead of being playing boring missions day in day out, or spamming Jita local with bull****. all i can say is simple things amuse simple minds. have fun in empire!


Analogies comparing eve to real life dont really work tbh...
Im against the npc tax for one reason- it doesnt accomplish anything but take away the npc chat channel. Thats all it does.

The tax can be avoided by simply joining a one man corp. If you wardek that corp they will just make another. The tax is a choice- 11% of your bounties and mission rewards for using npc corp chat or form a one man corp.

Obviously most are going to go the one man corp route. And so what? It is a game- let them play how they want. Prolly over 80% of eve players are hisec only players- Null players prolly account for bit over 10% of total population. Somewhere along the line the more self rightous null players decided they were somehow important- and the others were "playing the game wrong".

My previous comment (quoted above) was mainly because you seem to disagree with the change because it doesnt go far enough. (in reality the change does nothing see above)
But you never did put your version of a "fix"- would be interesting to see how you would make over 80% of eve play the game how you think it should be played.




what i was getting at, is if the tax is implemented.. nothing will change.. its just gonna split NPC corps into many smaller 2-3man corps. and at the end of the day you can still create another chat channel where all corps can gather.. or even start a Empire alliance. either way im not picking on players as such. im saying the tax system wont work. there are ways around it..that are very simple. so they are putting a system into game that will be dormant for 99% of players, only the really new guys will suffer and be hindered by the tax and we all know how hard it is to get started. so if a tax system is to be implemented it somehow has to be global and effect all ppl who try start small 2-3 man alt corps. i think it is a bad idea. maby make ppl pay to use agents or something.. or broker's in trade hubs.. IDK.. no one person can fix or suggest how to fix this issue. but as it stands it wont do anything productive.

Arinyes Cantari
Posted - 2009.11.29 14:34:00 - [425]
 

Providing security to NPC corps... lovely debate, and utter bull. No one is safe in EVE, and being in an NPC corp makes it no less dangerous. The only difference you have over a corp is that you have more people to talk to, but needing to be careful what you tell about where you are and what you are doing as people are as likely to turn you as they are to help you out.

That NPC corps can't be war decked may only be a small blessing in comparison, but it's not as though you can depend on your corp mates to show up and back you when you're getting ganged upon. You're flying solo in a ragtag group of thugs and no one's got your back, plain and simple. Fly a small ship easy to destroy with goods that're worth enough and someone catching sight of you will still try to hit you up at the expense of their own ship.

This is the thumbs rule of EVE... NO ONE IS EVER 100% SAFE.

Navell Phora
Posted - 2009.11.29 15:44:00 - [426]
 

This whole topic is about a no-change. Instead of being in npc corp you just start a one man corp and keep doing what you do.

That changes absolutely nothing. If anything, it takes away the small possibility of starting a corp with npc corp mate. Once people have started their own corps they will be even less willing to switch to normal player based corps.

What needs to be remembered is that for a carebear, either miner or mission runner the threat of being wardecced is less than 0. If you don't post on forums, don't say anything on chat and don't interact with other players you have 0 chance of getting in any form of trouble.

If the question is to either pay a 11% or not the question is extremely easy. Start a corp and do not pay. Starting a corp means 1.5M one off payment. That's absolutely nothing and totally worth it if you plan to make more isk than 13,7M (1,5M/0,11) during your full career of playing eve. You don't even need headquarters which in turn practically makes it impossible to get more people into that corp.

The whole fantasy of npc corp tax changing anything in eve is like making a tax for flying a titan into hisec. Sure you could pay but you still can't fly a titan into hisec.

I think a far better option would be to kick people out from npc corps (new player corps) into 20 people npc sub-corps that can be wardecced and mostly follow most of the rules of player driven corps. Put a tax on them and encourage forming groups and eventually starting a corp for themselves. Allow them to share blueprints and form ties. Encourage them to form new corps because they want the new corp, not because they want to simply avoid a tax.

Because it takes only 10 minutes to train a corp alt and an hour of time in total to take that alt into some middle of nowhere system. The only way to wardec and actually have a war with this kind of corp is to know where the actually operate because the corp founder and ceo are in totally different place doing absolutely nothing.

Orgell Evaan
Minmatar
Tax Avoidance Through Alliterative Syndication
Posted - 2009.11.29 17:56:00 - [427]
 

Originally by: Navell Phora

*Snip*
You don't even need headquarters which in turn practically makes it impossible to get more people into that corp.
*Snip*


According to the Patch Notes, you will be able to join corps without going to their office (if any) via a button on the Corp Info page.

Navell Phora
Posted - 2009.11.29 18:22:00 - [428]
 

Edited by: Navell Phora on 29/11/2009 18:22:36
Originally by: Orgell Evaan
Originally by: Navell Phora

*Snip*
You don't even need headquarters which in turn practically makes it impossible to get more people into that corp.
*Snip*


According to the Patch Notes, you will be able to join corps without going to their office (if any) via a button on the Corp Info page.


Yeah, you are right. The point I was trying to make was just that it doesn't even cost anything to keep a small corp going. Plus if you're alone in a corp or with your alts you don't even need to bother with the tedious corp ui either. Just few clicks and you're done. No tax and no accepting new players into the corp either.

I don't know much about mining or manufacturing but at least for a mission runner the change is just that the npc corp pic changes on your char sheet to another corp pic. Change the pic or pay 11% tax. Most people have alts for few reasons and if that alt is not a money maker then it can be left into npc corp. And in other situations the benefits of being in npc corp are exacty the same as before. There is no change to spy and transport alts doing their business when the main is in war and in need of suplies.

Plus it is not even know how many times the 11% tax is paid. If I buy a ship through contracts do I pay tax? If I buy through market do I pay tax? If I sell through contract/market do I pay tax? If I refine or reprocess do I pay a tax? If I give money or recieve money do I pay tax? Tax on insurance, clone etc..?

I really hope ccp has some more thought into this because as it is it is just something to laugh at.

DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2009.11.30 03:15:00 - [429]
 

Taxes, after all, are dues that we pay for the privileges of membership in an organized society.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Key word = organized.

Player Corps are organized.
NPC Corps are not organized.

The main reason for a tax within the player corp is to provide funds to purchase, supply and operate one or more Player Owned Starbase or POS. This gives members free access to research, invention, copy and manufacture slots without having to pay or wait for a slot to become available as well as free material reprocessing and access to Jump Clone's without the need for a high NPC Corp standing. Since these POS's can be attacked, funds are also needed for defence. Some player corps will replace or reimburse funds for lost/destroyed ships and/or supply free higher Tier skillbooks for certain career paths. This is intended to strengthen the player corp and also promote growth.
All paid for by the Player Corp Tax.
In exchange for these tax paid services, members are expected to help and defend each other as well as any and all holdings/structures owned by the Player Corp itself whenever needed.

Player Corps are organized.
NPC Corps are not organized.

If a tax for being in a NPC Corp is implemented, then NPC corp members should be allowed the same privileges that members of player corps have and all tax funds need to be accounted for.

I've seen a lot of replies in this post about how NPC corp members have it safe and make a lot of isk. You are all wrong. NPC Corp members get attacked the most by Player Corps because Player Corp members know there isn't going to be any retaliation done by the NPC Corp.

As for wardec, most of you Player Corp members leave the corp when it's on and as soon as it's over, rejoin the corp. I know this to be a fact just from looking at the employment record of a lot of you players.

By the way, just exactly what is this tax going to pay for anyway? I highly doubt it will encourage players to join other player corps. Like what others have said, I expect there will be a lot of single member corps created. Also quite a few players will probably end up not redoing subscription and leave this game. Is this what CCP wants? And whatever happened to freedom of choice? Now I'm being told I have to play this game a certain way. You want to change something? How about fixing all the video, audio, game mechanics/ingame browser or the random disconnection/socket is closed? That all should have been fixed a long time ago and I'm sure everyone else can add something to that list.



Matsurri
Posted - 2009.11.30 05:17:00 - [430]
 

OK, so Perkone will have a tax... its part of Caldari State. As the tax we then pay is going to the state, dont you think Standing should increase? Perhaps even Loyalty Points for every 10k ISK paid in taxes.

It would be fair, everyone who has made a jump clone knows how hard it is to get an 8 standing. Frankly I will just start a corp so as to not pay because lets face it, the NPC corp is doing nothing for me. Discounts? I have my standing with the Navy, I use navy assembly for manufacture.

All this will do is reduce the population of the NPC Corp ranks while simultaniously making it more difficult for newbies to get started, but I think thats what this is intended to do. Join the Navy? No Taxes there? Yeah, but the navy wont buy you another ship because you went into enemy space. Thats the sweet part of the NPC "dropout" corps, no war, no boundary except for low sec.

Frankly I don't like the change, but you likely read that.

Gaius Sejanus
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2009.11.30 15:05:00 - [431]
 

Quote:
For my part, I had wet dreams about making it 100%.. cause I really dislike people farming ISK with immunity and intending to sell it through RMT.


I'm not sure which is more offensive; that you think people in NPC corps are only there to bulk up on RMT funds, or that you think that a 100% tax would do anything to stop anyone from bulking up on RMT funds.

Either way, you're a fool. It's sad that CCP employs fools.

Harvey Keitel
Posted - 2009.11.30 19:52:00 - [432]
 

So if we're paying taxes because of the protection we're receiving, does that mean kills and bounties in low to null aren't taxes? There's no protection there. Gate guns don't count!

So now we'll have a lot of dinky temporary corps as the new problem. New solution will be mandated taxes on corps, or probably reoccurring corporation sustainable fees. Yay.

Quantum warrior
Posted - 2009.11.30 23:35:00 - [433]
 

This is a great idea I cant see what the problem is.

I now have two one man corps and realise now I should have done this years ago. Who needs help from NPC chat when you get out there and blunder around.

Thanks CCP for showing me the way.

Gurgeh Morat
Gallente
7th Interval
Posted - 2009.11.30 23:42:00 - [434]
 

I don't really care about paying the tax, but as others have said it's not going to achieve the stated goals.

I was in FNA for a long time, I had another account with which I joined a player corp. This char was for my independent, chilled out relaxing do wtf I want when I want playing and of course just for listening to the very busy, frequently funny, frequently annoying FNA chat. However I signed this char up to my other chars corp to help inject cash (through taxes). Unfortunately now that I have left I have ended up in Groun Investment Bank.

For those who don't know it, it is virtually silent most of the time apart from a bit of beligerent chat rage now & then. It is terrible because I haven't encountered anyone I would want to form a corp with, and frankly I am unlikely to since it is social purgatory.

With this in mind I think you are in danger of removing the one thing NPC corps are supposed to provide - a social environment in which you can get to know the other faceless players to the point where you can possibly make a few trusted friends to form a corp with - or gain background knowledge of corps other players have been in. If players do leave to form 1 man corps, there will be even less social interaction and even less opportunity for NPC members to form relationships & join corps.

This char is well stuffed, since now I have little or no chance of finding anyone in GiB to form a corp with, but since I can't choose the holding corp I get dumped into I am cursed to always end up in this silent unsociable purgatory.

The tax is fine, but not for the reasons stated.

It will drive some players into even less social interaciton - not more

I think your purpose would be better served by increasing the oppotunities for NPC member interaction. Say by being able to switch NPC corps or return to your starter corp where you may be able to find a few people you can team up with. The trouble with starter corps is that they get little interaction with anyone who has actually left and experienced being in a decent or a poor corp. I would happily consider starting a corp with some 1-2 month old chars, if I had the chance to observe them in chat for a while.

I really feel my 3-4 year old character is broken now simply because I no longer have an environment available to me in which I can make friends.

As others have mentioned being in a player corp is not the holy grail of interaction that some people here seem to think it is. I have had other chars in PCs and had to endure many long hours alone in chat or with the dreaded silent corp member (sometimes I have been the dreaded silent corp member!).

So by all means tax NPC corps, but forcing people out of player corps will reduce social interaction & consequently the ability to form new relationships.

PS maybe you could make the ability to fire on your own corp members privelege based or explicitly consensual for a duration or something?

Auspels
Posted - 2009.12.01 00:07:00 - [435]
 

Edited by: Auspels on 15/12/2009 01:15:52
Lame.

Kaizer Douken
Posted - 2009.12.01 15:42:00 - [436]
 

Edited by: Kaizer Douken on 01/12/2009 15:56:39
Originally by: Splinter McIron
This is a terrible idea. Why? Because I own the right to my own life. Not my corporation. A tax says that the taxing body owns all of my income, and allows me to keep a certain percentage of it (in this case, 89%). That is bull****. I make my money, I get to keep my money, all 100% of it.

You are NOT doing this to get players out of high-sec, you are doing this to get players into PvP so that your game stops looking like a cool space-sim WoW replacement with 'safe spots" and "not safe spots".

No, No No NO! I do not agree with this proposed change. This is absurd.
Where in this world you get to keep 100% of your earned money?

The idea of Dominion is to get people from high sec to 0.0. I've been playing Singularity for some months now and didn't see this change till today since I'm not in an NPC corp. Dominion does bring tools to 0.0 corps and allainces so their space is "the more used the better it gets".

One thing the blog fails to mention is that paying taxes in an NPC corp it is in reallity a loss of money, at least in a player corp your tax is returned to you in goods like free ships or monetary help when you suddenly need 80 million, you can get positions whitin the corp, plus, you meet a lot of friendly new people.

In my 1st days I was in high sec, it was secure, but it got boring too fast, the corps are too big, they don't have an identity, NPC corps don't work as a team the majority of time, so at least I felt alone and after 3 months I stopped playing the game. Didn't see the point of playing with a bunch of people that were mostly playing on their own, didn't have an identity as a "corp" and that were paranoic about going to low sec or 0.0. Then 3 months later I saw a guy on xfire broadcasting eve and I got to talk to him about how I used to play, he told me about his corp and I told him I would join soon because I wanted to join a player corp anyways to see how it was. After getting the 5 day for free from Eve Online I got in contact with him again and joined the corp. The first time I hit the button to go to 0.0 after joining this 30 man war dec'd corp I was scared, I was making the big jump, well, I hit the "Are you SURE!!??" yes button and .... nothing happens, I got to see a lot of stuff I've never saw before, meet a lot of cool people that would help you always and cooperate as whole. This was what I was looking for. You talk about security, I lost my 1st after 2 months of joining this 0.0 war dec'd corp which is not war dec'd anymore
.

When I was in high sec as a noobie on my cruiser I would make 1 million every 3-4 hours by doing missions, salvaging and selling the loot this was really boring and frustrating. When I joined this corp I could make 5 million in less than 1 hour by just salvaging and following my corp mates. Well, that was 4 months ago, I am now the Research & Development Manager for this corporation, I receive a monthly salary and get to do lots of cool stuff I would have never done in high sec. Very Happy

BTW Devs you can use my story as you see fit and tell people how fun is to join a player corp :)

Slash Overkill
Hyperbolic Galacticum
Posted - 2009.12.01 15:59:00 - [437]
 

Originally by: Ex Mudder
So when will we see the cost of manufacturing / research in Hi Sec stations be brought in line with the price of doing the same thing at a POS?

Plenty more ISK sinks here that require minimal coding.



Maybe when they update corp UI to make it a lot less of a grief experience allowing corp mates to use labs without a majore security risk. And are you kidding me? While POS prices are higher (but can be shared and leveraged) have you tried doing ME research in a public Hi Sec lab lately? Waiting times average 30days just to get to the slot..Neutral

Shadow Steps
Posted - 2009.12.01 16:14:00 - [438]
 

I don't care much for the tax but until I find the right player corp I'm sticking to high sec. npc.
That said a good option would be a tiered tax system based on system security 10% in 1.0 sec. 9% in .9 sec 8% in .8 sec etc.

Pushing players out to player corps is what the tax is about so CCP needs to help player corps make their corps more appealing to player in NPC corps.
How? No clue here. Maybe add features to player corps that are not available to npc corps.

Ms Iustitia
Posted - 2009.12.01 16:16:00 - [439]
 

Originally by: Kaizer Douken
Edited by: Kaizer Douken on 01/12/2009 15:56:39
Originally by: Splinter McIron
This is a terrible idea. Why? Because I own the right to my own life. Not my corporation. A tax says that the taxing body owns all of my income, and allows me to keep a certain percentage of it (in this case, 89%). That is bull****. I make my money, I get to keep my money, all 100% of it.

You are NOT doing this to get players out of high-sec, you are doing this to get players into PvP so that your game stops looking like a cool space-sim WoW replacement with 'safe spots" and "not safe spots".

No, No No NO! I do not agree with this proposed change. This is absurd.
Where in this world you get to keep 100% of your earned money?

The idea of Dominion is to get people from high sec to 0.0. I've been playing Singularity for some months now and didn't see this change till today since I'm not in an NPC corp. Dominion does bring tools to 0.0 corps and allainces so their space is "the more used the better it gets".

One thing the blog fails to mention is that paying taxes in an NPC corp it is in reallity a loss of money, at least in a player corp your tax is returned to you in goods like free ships or monetary help when you suddenly need 80 million, you can get positions whitin the corp, plus, you meet a lot of friendly new people.

In my 1st days I was in high sec, it was secure, but it got boring too fast, the corps are too big, they don't have an identity, NPC corps don't work as a team the majority of time, so at least I felt alone and after 3 months I stopped playing the game. Didn't see the point of playing with a bunch of people that were mostly playing on their own, didn't have an identity as a "corp" and that were paranoic about going to low sec or 0.0. Then 3 months later I saw a guy on xfire broadcasting eve and I got to talk to him about how I used to play, he told me about his corp and I told him I would join soon because I wanted to join a player corp anyways to see how it was. After getting the 5 day for free from Eve Online I got in contact with him again and joined the corp. The first time I hit the button to go to 0.0 after joining this 30 man war dec'd corp I was scared, I was making the big jump, well, I hit the "Are you SURE!!??" yes button and .... nothing happens, I got to see a lot of stuff I've never saw before, meet a lot of cool people that would help you always and cooperate as whole. This was what I was looking for. You talk about security, I lost my 1st after 2 months of joining this 0.0 war dec'd corp which is not war dec'd anymore
.

When I was in high sec as a noobie on my cruiser I would make 1 million every 3-4 hours by doing missions, salvaging and selling the loot this was really boring and frustrating. When I joined this corp I could make 5 million in less than 1 hour by just salvaging and following my corp mates. Well, that was 4 months ago, I am now the Research & Development Manager for this corporation, I receive a monthly salary and get to do lots of cool stuff I would have never done in high sec. Very Happy

BTW Devs you can use my story as you see fit and tell people how fun is to join a player corp :)


if you've read the posts from early on, you might notice that the contentions of those who oppose are not the tax itself but the "pushing" or urging players out of NPC corps, your story is good and well, but NOT all who play EVE or any other MMOPRG have the inclination to go PVP, or be in a position within the game of increased risk of PVP.

For me, isk doesn't really matter, a few missions, buy some ships, accumulate some isk for pirate faction ships, can run around in any highsec systems and i'm fine, BUT then again, that's me, unlike you who have the inclination to go PVP, you see, just us 2 have a difference in how we play EVE, does that mean i should follow how you play or you should follow how i do things? :))

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2009.12.01 16:32:00 - [440]
 

While the idea is ok, and I mean ok, not fantastic, I don't really think it will change much. The new players for the most part won't realise that they're paying 11% tax on their missions/mining etc and when they do, they'll move onto player corps. In fact the only thing I can see this changing is the wardeccing mechanism, making more newbie targets for griefer corps and also less NPC corp suicide gankers, since they won't have the profit any more after insurance, apart from faction/T2 mods etc.

Thoe NPC mission runners who make huge isk/hour might simply decide that 11% less isk/hour, when they're making on average 20 to 40 million an hour, is acceptable.

I think the whole NPC corp thing is broken anyway. It should be a requirement that new players get into a corp in order to play.

Shadow Steps
Posted - 2009.12.01 16:51:00 - [441]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
While the idea is ok, and I mean ok, not fantastic, I don't really think it will change much. The new players for the most part won't realise that they're paying 11% tax on their missions/mining etc and when they do, they'll move onto player corps. In fact the only thing I can see this changing is the wardeccing mechanism, making more newbie targets for griefer corps and also less NPC corp suicide gankers, since they won't have the profit any more after insurance, apart from faction/T2 mods etc.

Thoe NPC mission runners who make huge isk/hour might simply decide that 11% less isk/hour, when they're making on average 20 to 40 million an hour, is acceptable.

I think the whole NPC corp thing is broken anyway. It should be a requirement that new players get into a corp in order to play.




If new players were required to join a player corp to play, the only new people to EVE would be friends of people who already play. Few if any player corps would take total noobs and many new players would find it hard to just join up with strangers and meet their expectations. There would also be likely exploitation of new players as well. It would be a bad scene all around.

Zed Ruach
Posted - 2009.12.01 16:54:00 - [442]
 

Dumb idea. I'm in a NPC corp because I am tired of being war dec'd. Not everyone who plays Eve is in it for the PVP (contrary to CCP's thinking). Now I can either make a one man corp, and have no one to chat to, be war dec'd and sit in station for a week or two, and watch tv. Maybe I'll just watch tv and not bother renewing my EVE account....

Shadow Steps
Posted - 2009.12.01 17:05:00 - [443]
 

Originally by: Zed Ruach
Dumb idea. I'm in a NPC corp because I am tired of being war dec'd. Not everyone who plays Eve is in it for the PVP (contrary to CCP's thinking). Now I can either make a one man corp, and have no one to chat to, be war dec'd and sit in station for a week or two, and watch tv. Maybe I'll just watch tv and not bother renewing my EVE account....

Slightly off topic. If it costs the corp money to WARDEC you. Then couldn't you just drop your corp and waste their money. If that is possible then perhaps you could demand they pay you money or you will disband your corp. If it costs more to keep a WarDec up than it costs to open a Corp.
just a thought. Though it seems highly unlikely that a corp would WarDec a one man corp. I could be wrong on all counts though.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2009.12.01 17:49:00 - [444]
 

Originally by: Shadow Steps
Originally by: Zed Ruach
Dumb idea. I'm in a NPC corp because I am tired of being war dec'd. Not everyone who plays Eve is in it for the PVP (contrary to CCP's thinking). Now I can either make a one man corp, and have no one to chat to, be war dec'd and sit in station for a week or two, and watch tv. Maybe I'll just watch tv and not bother renewing my EVE account....

Slightly off topic. If it costs the corp money to WARDEC you. Then couldn't you just drop your corp and waste their money. If that is possible then perhaps you could demand they pay you money or you will disband your corp. If it costs more to keep a WarDec up than it costs to open a Corp.
just a thought. Though it seems highly unlikely that a corp would WarDec a one man corp. I could be wrong on all counts though.
If his corp has a POS up, then it would still be a target. That said, if you have enough isk for a POS, then 11% is not going to break your bank.

Leyline777
NailorTech Industries
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.01 18:08:00 - [445]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
Edited by: Kerfira on 22/09/2009 15:13:25
stuff



I for one look forward to this change as it helps push players out into (defensible) player corps. I agree that they shouldnt bone the NPE up as that hurts the game and is downright unfair to the newbies. I dont think taxes should hit you for the first 3 months but thats just me. This will push the others out there that are hiding behind npc immunity into what the game is supposed to be about (consequences). As for the "creation of thousands of 1 man corps" I look forward to that as there are those like me that provide the, shall we say, darwinian edge to the game which will be more than happy to war dec all those solo players out of existence and into more cohesive multi man corps (thus added social interaction).

As for your "points":
1. Player corps arent supplied " the same services for free" (main service of npc corp being you cant be wardecced). Player corps are susceptible to outside threats Twisted Evil
2. 1 man player corp has NO protections (besides dock n hide). Try taking on 20-30 dedicated players who have multiple decs out (looking for your nice npc faction fit officer loot ... errr ship.
3. They wont, or at least not for long YARRRR!! I can swear that those of us that have the good of eve in mind and soul Laughing will kill them off looong before this becomes an issue.

Have a good day.

Oh and npc corpers either wish to avoid being a target or wardecs, no taxes (the rmt *****s), or they like solo play. If you like solo dont play an mmo :).

Cheers

Ms Iustitia
Posted - 2009.12.01 18:23:00 - [446]
 

Originally by: Leyline777
Originally by: Kerfira
Edited by: Kerfira on 22/09/2009 15:13:25
stuff



I for one look forward to this change as it helps push players out into (defensible) player corps. I agree that they shouldnt bone the NPE up as that hurts the game and is downright unfair to the newbies. I dont think taxes should hit you for the first 3 months but thats just me. This will push the others out there that are hiding behind npc immunity into what the game is supposed to be about (consequences). As for the "creation of thousands of 1 man corps" I look forward to that as there are those like me that provide the, shall we say, darwinian edge to the game which will be more than happy to war dec all those solo players out of existence and into more cohesive multi man corps (thus added social interaction).

As for your "points":
1. Player corps arent supplied " the same services for free" (main service of npc corp being you cant be wardecced). Player corps are susceptible to outside threats Twisted Evil
2. 1 man player corp has NO protections (besides dock n hide). Try taking on 20-30 dedicated players who have multiple decs out (looking for your nice npc faction fit officer loot ... errr ship.
3. They wont, or at least not for long YARRRR!! I can swear that those of us that have the good of eve in mind and soul Laughing will kill them off looong before this becomes an issue.

Have a good day.

Oh and npc corpers either wish to avoid being a target or wardecs, no taxes (the rmt *****s), or they like solo play. If you like solo dont play an mmo :).

Cheers


just gonna set some misconceptions straight, RMTs are organised, if you think they're solo players just running missions day in and day out, i think you're wrong, it would have taken considerable amount of time to accumulate isk, and running missions on purposes of RMT is just stupid, manufacturing, mining, and/or trading and such would much more be profitable and requiring less on-hand time, which means you can box multiple accounts.

pardon me, but i'm a solo player, if i choose an MMO to play solo, its my business and its my decision and quit yacking about it, oh, btw, MMO stands for what? "Massively Multiplayer Online" game or role-playing game, where does the word PvP in there? or the phrase "Player Versus Player"?

and i don't think it's clearly defined that "MMO" should and always mean "PvP", maybe in your dictionary, but not in mine nor thru all the searches i made. :))

hehe, if you have to contradict something, make a solid point.

Ukucia
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.12.01 18:29:00 - [447]
 

Originally by: Leyline777
As for the "creation of thousands of 1 man corps" I look forward to that as there are those like me that provide the, shall we say, darwinian edge to the game which will be more than happy to war dec all those solo players out of existence and into more cohesive multi man corps (thus added social interaction).


It's good to see you lack any understanding of the mechanics of this game. You should apply to CCP: judging by this change, the failed MS changes and a whole lot of Dominion, apparently not understanding the game's mechanics is a plus for CCP employees.

Lemme spell it out for you:
-Someone like you who thinks he's a super-bad-ass-PvPer decides to wardec a 1-man corp. He's stoked because he might actually win a fight and happily pays the wardec fee.
-During the 24-hour waiting period, the solo player quits the 1-man corp. 1-man corp disappears, war is canceled.
-The solo player starts a new corp, paying much, much less than the wardec fee.

Grats! You've lost a bunch of money and nothing has changed!

And no, the solo player won't get banned for it. It's perfectly legal to quit a corp to avoid a war. Heck, the best possible outcome for your war is the complete destruction of the target corp, right?

Galamiel
Posted - 2009.12.01 19:21:00 - [448]
 

To say that it is to increase social interaction and then to say it is to counter RMTs is ridiculous. RMTs operate by spamming channels with lots of people on them. To counter that your solution is to separate the players into player corporations where they are isolated from each other? Great idea. That will really increase social interaction.

This whole push into player corporations doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Yes, there should be incentives. Yes, it's a huge part of the experience. But I keep thinking back to the "Butterfly Effect" video. Where did that "Lone Wolf" come from? It seems you are trying to squeeze the lone wolves out of the game by either forcing them to conform to some other play style or stop playing all together.

I also don't think this will have any impact on the underlying problem of risk/reward. As someone else said, high-sec activities are completely soloable and so there is no need for a corporation there. The only way to make it beneficial to join a high-sec corp is if you either add high-sec content that is not soloable or else make npc corps a living hell. If you're doing anything serious in 0.0/low-sec the advantages of a good player run corporation are already obvious and sufficiently attractive I think. So, what is the real purpose of this change?

In all honesty, 11% is unlikely to have a significant impact. What is worrisome is the thinking behind this change. Implementing a poorly thought out attempt rather than addressing the real problems.

Oh, and we're taxing government issued reward money? Bounty prizes are rewards from the government which we are then being taxed on by the corporation that we "work for?" This is a crazy system. In the real world I'm used to getting paid by the corporation and then paying taxes to the government. Interesting twist.

Aliea Konovalev
Amarr
Posted - 2009.12.01 19:44:00 - [449]
 

This seems like yet another destined to fail attempt at pushing people 0.0 by CCP.

I guess they never do learn. No matter how much you nerf High-Sec you are never going to push those players out to 0.0 its just not going to happen.

Victor Lans
Posted - 2009.12.01 19:56:00 - [450]
 

As other people have said before me, it is very, very frustrating for a new player to get isk. Off all the MMO's I have played "and its alot over the years" I would say EVE is one of the hardest for beginners, its difficult to even get skill-books!!! I mean CMON!!!!!... You have certainly not thought at all when you are making this tax. 11% is HUGE for a new player!!!. Please RECONSIDER!!! (This post problably falls over deaf ears, but getting new players to eve is essantial for the continuation of this universe) I say it again, please RECONSIDER!!!!!!!......


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