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Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2009.09.26 21:41:00 - [361]
 

I've no problem with the NPC tax, as long as it's set at an appropriate level. Remember, a newbie has 2 directons they can go if they think it's too hard to make money in an NPC corp- Player corp or quit to an "easier" MMO.

11% seems ok- I personally think that 15% would give a clear difference without being too much of a disincentive, but that's open to debate.

To all those people ranting about taxing the market- taxing "sell" without looking at "buy" could really screw things up if not really thought through.

As a general isk sink and reward for investing in social skills, I reckon that a better way would be to increase the broker fees and existing sales tax rates, with corresponding increases in the effectiveness of the relevant skills.

price checker999
Posted - 2009.09.26 23:49:00 - [362]
 

if you made it less easy for bored pirates to Grief small corps, there would be no need for this tax.

Hamshoe
Posted - 2009.09.27 15:12:00 - [363]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Two points here:

1. I've seen it stated multiple times that players "get something in return" for their taxes in player run corporations. That's hardly a guarantee, and while you may be in a good corporation that gives you ship reimbursement and so forth, you can just as easily be in a corporation where you don't see a single isk returned during your time there.

2. 11% is a relatively low rate to pay to stay in a corporation that offers you complete immunity from wars, instability and all the other issues that NPC corporations run into. Any notion here that there is no advantage to being in an NPC corporation, even after this change, is pretty far out.


I'm pretty sure there's a huge elephant in the middle of your points, and one I'm not sure is being addressed: taxes have nothing to do with the reasons most people stay in NPC corps. Player corps are not competeing with NPC corps on the basis of tax rates. Dollars to donuts we're going to end up in a situation where "...the changes do not have the impact we hope,..." for that very reason.

What's desired is an improvement in the player corp experience, and wielding the tax stick isn't going to do that. Or, as you put it:

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Any notion here that there is no advantage to being in an NPC corporation, even after this change, is pretty far out.


That's your issue, and it's not about taxes.

Jana Tanaka
Caldari
Tanaka Industries Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.27 16:01:00 - [364]
 

Edited by: Jana Tanaka on 27/09/2009 16:06:56

Originally by: Inferno Styx

...some simple truths that will never change:...



Wrong. It will change. Logical failure allready in the first sentence. Fun :)

Quote:

3. ...they are not in anyway required to listen to us. ...



While explicity the devs are not required to listen to us,
implicitly they very much are, since our unhappiness translates into theirs via the loss of corporate income and thus jobs.
By all means this doesnt mean they need to listen to the forums specifically...

Quote:

...Be happy that devs actually listen and participate in forum discussions. ...



Arguments like this have become more frequent on the boards and really make my stomach uneasy :)
MMOs and other corporate products we decide to buy,
are not gifts by those companies to us.
We do not need to be thankfull that they provide those products,
since they are simply acting out of economic self interest.
Devs doing their job are certainly to be praised as good employes,
but there is no reason at all to owe them a debt of gratitude.



Back to the original issue.

The tax rate will not result into a positive transfer of players from NPC corps to meaningfull PC corps.
As has been pointed ot before,
the only relevant change we will see,
is the creation of countless minicorps.

The sentiment expressed by CCP about players in NPC corps disgusts me.
Although it might indeed have been a badly executed joke as it has been claimed,
every racial or political joke also expresses at its core a bit of truly existing belief, since exactly that belief is what drives it.
There have been more and more cases in the recent years,
where communications from CCP left a bitter aftertaste of hybris in my mouth.

The only way to transfer more players from NPC to real PC corps is to make PC corps more meaningfull in a positive way.

Make wardecs harder,
add more corporate benefits for player corps,
like the corp standing influencing empire taxes,
create empire content that requires fleets to complete and is out of reach of one player and a few alts,
make 0.0 more accessible to medium corps as you try to with the next expansion, aso.

Roland Thorne
Minmatar
Jian Products Engineering Group
Posted - 2009.09.27 16:46:00 - [365]
 

Originally by: Jana Tanaka

Interesting and true points


You forgot to add that ccp should generally just fix wardeccing as well to maintain the pvp component, but also so peeps can't hide forever in shielded npc corps and abuse the system. Until this is fixed, pvp will remain broken in highsec. As someone who has not yet taken part in the wardec games in highsec but seriously does not mind doing it one day (Twisted Evil, I agree that this is a reason why possible CEOs would rethink starting a small corp in highsec. Maybe we should be thinking of ideas to make it easier for corps to defend themselves other then the current best option of hiding in station making no isk :P

I should be able to think of one quickly enough in this fertile brain of mine /sarc.... Maybe create some kind of system in eve that makes it easy to find and hire other pvpers eager for a little sport. Small corps should have an easier time of finding others eager for a fight if they want the wardec closed early, and currently you have to know people to do that.

Hamshoe
Posted - 2009.09.27 17:41:00 - [366]
 

Originally by: Jana Tanaka

The only way to transfer more players from NPC to real PC corps is to make PC corps more meaningfull in a positive way.

Make wardecs harder,
add more corporate benefits for player corps,
like the corp standing influencing empire taxes,
create empire content that requires fleets to complete and is out of reach of one player and a few alts,
make 0.0 more accessible to medium corps as you try to with the next expansion, aso.


Good suggestions all, and more importantly the more successful guiding concept.


Again, if you're trying to sell a product the successful and rational approach is to make your product better, not to try to make competeing products suck to an equal degree.

Ms Iustitia
Posted - 2009.09.27 21:06:00 - [367]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X
Edited by: CCP Prism X on 22/09/2009 15:12:10
For my part, I had wet dreams about making it 100%.. cause I really dislike people farming ISK with immunity and intending to sell it through RMT. Thankfully they don't let draconian little me design stuff. Laughing


sigh, instead of yakking about your wet dreams, how about this: make isk account based and not toon based, accessible to all toons in a single account, but non-transferable to other accounts, i know, some peeps have multiple accounts, so, make ease with transferring items across accounts, even the transfer of command and rigged ships, guess a "special" tab could be added to the peeps and places folder so that players can add names of accounts and access it thru them to verify specific toon recipients. just an idea though, but i guess such will resolve your wet dreams about isk farmers, somehow...

IVeige
Caldari
IVever.
Posted - 2009.09.27 21:47:00 - [368]
 

Originally by: Roland Thorne
Originally by: Jana Tanaka

Interesting and true points


fix wardeccing as well



quote for truth

Drealore
Posted - 2009.09.28 17:18:00 - [369]
 

Adapt or Die! Thats the EVE slogan. Countless nerfs and changes have been gotten through by that simple slogan. Now I have played eve for years. I have been the "carebear", and now I PVP. Simgle thing is yes Eve is a sandbox. But if you look at most of the times thats been said its nearly alwayse been about Null sec. But go to your local sandbox and take a look 90% of the time there are parents watching it. To all of those who are calling raceism "mission runners" or what ever you want to call it, its realy not. Npc corps were never meant to host Players for years on end. CCP hopes this tax will entice some ppl to move out of NPC corps witch is fine by me. I will stay there even with 11% less income. Now either quit your crying or do like your threat says and /emoragequit. So you can go cry on another forum and not bother our busy devs. /Go ahead and flame on I dun care

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.09.28 21:49:00 - [370]
 

Originally by: Drealore
Adapt or Die! Thats the EVE slogan. Countless nerfs and changes have been gotten through by that simple slogan. Now I have played eve for years. I have been the "carebear", and now I PVP. Simgle thing is yes Eve is a sandbox. But if you look at most of the times thats been said its nearly alwayse been about Null sec. But go to your local sandbox and take a look 90% of the time there are parents watching it. To all of those who are calling raceism "mission runners" or what ever you want to call it, its realy not. Npc corps were never meant to host Players for years on end. CCP hopes this tax will entice some ppl to move out of NPC corps witch is fine by me. I will stay there even with 11% less income. Now either quit your crying or do like your threat says and /emoragequit. So you can go cry on another forum and not bother our busy devs. /Go ahead and flame on I dun care


Quoted because its a perfect example of someone who has completely missed the point.
We are not upset at the idea of a tax- we are upset the tax is specifically directed towards a style of play. Theres no other way to interpret it- ppl in npc corps are playing eve wrong and this is ccp's attempt to force them into player corps.

now aside from that- i disagree with the tax because...
1/it does nothing to entice players into player corps
2/it does nothing to fix war deks
3/it encourages 1 man corps- which lets be honest are as safe as npc corps but w/o the corp chat
4/it discourages a style of play- the independent loner
5/it adds absolutely nothing to the game- its like heres the tax all problems are FIXED- "wait what about....?" SHUDDUP- FIXED TAX FIXED IT


Vaermina Valessara
Posted - 2009.09.29 03:38:00 - [371]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Drealore
Adapt or Die! Thats the EVE slogan. Countless nerfs and changes have been gotten through by that simple slogan. Now I have played eve for years. I have been the "carebear", and now I PVP. Simgle thing is yes Eve is a sandbox. But if you look at most of the times thats been said its nearly alwayse been about Null sec. But go to your local sandbox and take a look 90% of the time there are parents watching it. To all of those who are calling raceism "mission runners" or what ever you want to call it, its realy not. Npc corps were never meant to host Players for years on end. CCP hopes this tax will entice some ppl to move out of NPC corps witch is fine by me. I will stay there even with 11% less income. Now either quit your crying or do like your threat says and /emoragequit. So you can go cry on another forum and not bother our busy devs. /Go ahead and flame on I dun care


Quoted because its a perfect example of someone who has completely missed the point.
We are not upset at the idea of a tax- we are upset the tax is specifically directed towards a style of play. Theres no other way to interpret it- ppl in npc corps are playing eve wrong and this is ccp's attempt to force them into player corps.

now aside from that- i disagree with the tax because...
1/it does nothing to entice players into player corps
2/it does nothing to fix war deks
3/it encourages 1 man corps- which lets be honest are as safe as npc corps but w/o the corp chat
4/it discourages a style of play- the independent loner
5/it adds absolutely nothing to the game- its like heres the tax all problems are FIXED- "wait what about....?" SHUDDUP- FIXED TAX FIXED IT




1- A dev said on page 1 that it probably wouldn't be the only change, but that it was the easiest to do as a first step. So you can expect more.
2- True, doesn't say it's supposed to either so...
3 and 4: Contradiction much?
5- Makes people pay for their immunity, and for the rest of the problems, see point 1, probably more of the FIX to come.

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.09.29 04:52:00 - [372]
 

Originally by: Vaermina Valessara


1- A dev said on page 1 that it probably wouldn't be the only change, but that it was the easiest to do as a first step. So you can expect more.
2- True, doesn't say it's supposed to either so...
3 and 4: Contradiction much?
5- Makes people pay for their immunity, and for the rest of the problems, see point 1, probably more of the FIX to come.


1- Yes it was implied there would be more "disincentive" to stay in an npc corp. Tbh i dont see any actual "incentives" to join player corps incoming. Just keep upping the punishment till all npc corp members create their own 1 man corp. Id love to be proven wrong here.
2- It doesnt say it was intended to fix it but the wardek situation is one of the reasons ppl stay in npc corps...Im going on the theory that if they truly want ppl out of npc corps they will fix the broken aspects that keep them there.
3/4- Not really. The "solo cpt" style of play is often found in npc corps- its nice to have hundreds of ppl to chat with. Just because you dont want to rely on them doesnt mean you dont like the conversation. A 1 man corp will keep the "solo" aspect- but it loses the npc conversation aspect. And yes i know- make a player channel. This however doesnt allow for the huge numbers of random ppl to enter and exit- which is one of the great parts of an npc chat.
5- What were still pretending cpts in player corps arent immune from war deks if they want to be? Were just going to ignore the fact that if they wish they can corp hop and always be in a player corp- yet be immune to war deks? Were also ignoring the fact that all players enjoy concord protection. So in the end npc corps have no "special mechanic" that "only" lets them avoid war deks. It just takes 2 seconds longer to avoid them if your in a player corp.

I would like to believe theres an "actual" fix incoming. But i see this as "lets throw griefer whiners a bone and punish npc corps" tactic. Theres no actual goal for this change- it will just shut the griefers up a bit- till they realize how little is changed anyway. Then your going to hear more of the "raise the npc tax"- or my favorite "tax the market for everyone but player corps" idea.

Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.29 08:39:00 - [373]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Vaermina Valessara


1- A dev said on page 1 that it probably wouldn't be the only change, but that it was the easiest to do as a first step. So you can expect more.
2- True, doesn't say it's supposed to either so...
3 and 4: Contradiction much?
5- Makes people pay for their immunity, and for the rest of the problems, see point 1, probably more of the FIX to come.


blablabla


Cry me a river

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.09.29 09:26:00 - [374]
 

Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Vaermina Valessara


1- A dev said on page 1 that it probably wouldn't be the only change, but that it was the easiest to do as a first step. So you can expect more.
2- True, doesn't say it's supposed to either so...
3 and 4: Contradiction much?
5- Makes people pay for their immunity, and for the rest of the problems, see point 1, probably more of the FIX to come.


blablabla

I ride the short bus and cant understand logic and reasoning


there fixed it for ya

Elrianmk2
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.29 09:50:00 - [375]
 

Personally im not hugely bothered by the tax change, and think it could have been handled better, but that being said Kudos to the devs for speaking thier minds and not masking it behind PR BS. I like hearing what people mean personally.

This thread has been an entertaining read from both sides of the fence but one underlying thread i very vrey much agree with is we need to Fix wardecs. Currently im in a laid back corp, we dont make a lot of cash but just have a bit of fun, and have been wardecced by some station huggers, who are only after easy kills. Yeah i know grow and and dont whine comments inbound, but here is the thing, an agressor corp can harrass another corp as much as they want and unless the target corp has a few alts they cant do anything about it.

Lets give corperations 2 things to incentivise people out of NPC corps, and take the risk of a player corp:
1. The tools for Corperation leadership to work across corps and alliances, Much more granularity of what people can do, access rights and ability to tax / set up internal contracts that are based on a realistic figure rather than the borked market average thanks to market manipulaters. (90 day average on actual sales anyone?)
2. A real cost to declaring war, 50 mill a week to dec an alliance what that 2 hours worth of level 4 work? Pff, make it cost something realistic to declare war on a corp, and much more to declare war against an alliance. If someone has that much of a bone to pick then they should be willing to pay out for it.

And no, you cant have my stuff im going to retailiate against the station huggers by afk'ing all the time, sides which this gives me the perfect opertunity to play all those other games i have lying around.

oolk
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.09.29 15:46:00 - [376]
 

On the topic of Concord protection...what protection exactly...certainly not from gankers!
Oh,you mean the casual protection,the inherent one,the one granted to all in high sec and at gates in low sec....

Bwahahahahah....try again.

Nekopyat
Posted - 2009.09.29 15:46:00 - [377]
 

Originally by: Anima Aquinas

Can't have POS



I keep thinking that if we really want to encourage people into hi-sec player corps, improving the utility of hi-sec POSes would be a good thing to look into. POSes are something only corps can do, but right now they are kinda useless in hi-sec unless one is doing research.

But if POSes had other utility... say, better manufacturing and refining, limited hi-sec moon mining, hi-sec asteroid mining (NPCs have fixed asteroid mining, why do not we?), accelleration gates, system scanners that help with exploration, etc etc. And given the limited number of moons, we would probalby see some interesting fights over them.

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2009.09.29 16:39:00 - [378]
 

Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 29/09/2009 17:40:08
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 29/09/2009 17:01:34
After all the great sense we got in the Sov blog from Greyscale, the best we can get from devs on this issue is the naive view that NPC corps are full of people hiding from wardecs and RMT players that need pushing to player corporations. Rolling Eyes

A disappointingly stupid change, in my view. It will solve none of the issues you want it to solve, because all the issues you want to solve are social, and you don't solve social problems with economic solutions (you can try, but funnily enough it almost never works well - see real life). So instead of NPC corps where people chat and socialise and Shocked might actually bond together and form a player corporation (which they'd do anyway if they were going to, 0% tax or not), we get incentives to immediately make 1-person corps and recycle said corps the moment they get wardecced.

This ignores that the entire concept of forcing people into corporations is at odds with the classical concept of paranoia, lack of trust, scams, and all that other good stuff that the EVE political landscape is littered with. Joining a corporation should be an important move, something that serious thought goes into by both parties, yet your approach implies 'oh well, just go join something, who cares what'.

Sheer brilliance Rolling Eyes To paraphrase a great author's work, ten out of ten for trying, but minus several million for a solution that achieves nothing good.

Try reading your own blogs! Greyscale spent an entire blog describing emergence, and yet you completely ignored this in this approach. Give player corporations better tools, better incentives, and better ways to do things and hey presto, people might be more inclined to join one.

Taxes can't change a player corporation full of jerks into being more attractive; they can't solve a player corporation that has one or two people who just love to get the rest of you wardecced who are the CEO's friends; they can't change that your own personal life is such that the typical demands of arrogant CEOs 'give us all your cash and work hours for us' are unacceptable. (These are of course just examples). These are social issues, to be solved by social solutions - which for those who actually want a great corporation to be a part of - the discerning player if you will - leaves actually a much smaller landscape to choose from.

Worse, all your change does is encourage people either to fragment further, decreasing social interaction and increasing the likelihood of loneliness/boredom/quitting, or put further pressure on the fewer number of good corps out there that will recruit new players, are tolerant, and all the other criteria a discerning player might have.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud looking at the issues with NPC corps - I just don't think you have the right solution.

Edit: A further point - militias are unaffected - why? What's the real reason you made this change, because a militia member like myself can do all the things a starter NPC corp can do, yet with no tax. One can clearly infer that the only real reason for this change is that you believe people hide in starter NPC corps to avoid PvP and that this needs changing, which makes the entire rest of the blog somewhat irrelevant. Why not just state that?
Originally by: Franga
MMO, not single player RPG.

You don't know what an MMO is if you believe that 'joining a guild' is an integral part of that. Try looking at the market some time for another example - or Chribba.
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
To compensate for this we need a mechanic where the NPC CEO randomly selects a member and strip him of all assets and boot him out of corp. This will make people much more accustomed to the wonders of being a member of a player run corporation.

As usual Jowen you made my day with a nicely cynical yet accurate comment.

Roland Thorne
Minmatar
Jian Products Engineering Group
Posted - 2009.09.29 17:19:00 - [379]
 

Originally by: Nekopyat
Originally by: Anima Aquinas

Can't have POS



I keep thinking that if we really want to encourage people into hi-sec player corps, improving the utility of hi-sec POSes would be a good thing to look into. POSes are something only corps can do, but right now they are kinda useless in hi-sec unless one is doing research.

But if POSes had other utility... say, better manufacturing and refining, limited hi-sec moon mining, hi-sec asteroid mining (NPCs have fixed asteroid mining, why do not we?), accelleration gates, system scanners that help with exploration, etc etc. And given the limited number of moons, we would probalby see some interesting fights over them.


And more opportunity for lols when a fleet concordorks itself over a pos.

Seriously, this brings an interesting point to my mind. Instead of bringing people to 0.0, bring some aspects of it to them :)

Lexa Hellfury
Immortal.
Posted - 2009.09.29 20:22:00 - [380]
 

Really unlikely to have an effect on the game.

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2009.09.29 21:11:00 - [381]
 

Originally by: Lexa Hellfury
Really unlikely to have an effect on the game.

Maybe so (it won't affect me in the slightest) but I still find it a real kick in the teeth that CCP have the temerity to post a blog about sovereignty, admitting that it affects a small part of the total EVE population, about emergence and allowing players to make their own destiny, and then we get this blog, which basically states 'play the game this way, or else', potentially affecting a similar small population. So much for the touted sandbox. On the one hand CCP giveth, and on the other CCP taketh away? Favouritism much? Normally I hate making such statements, but having read both blogs side by side, it really does not sit well with me.

Sloan X
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2009.09.29 22:47:00 - [382]
 

11% is no big deal, prospectivly its somthing that should have been there all along.

however....

Originally by: Soundwave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It seems like an unrealistic scenario that the empires in EVE provide infrastructure, security and a host of other financially demanding services at no cost."

O'rly

if thats the case then all outlaws -5 and over should not collect bounties from concord. they can get teh sec increase only.

seems like an unrealistic scenario that a police force would fund the very criminals they deem outlaws.




Ms Iustitia
Posted - 2009.09.30 00:30:00 - [383]
 

Originally by: Sloan X
11% is no big deal, prospectivly its somthing that should have been there all along.

however....

Originally by: Soundwave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It seems like an unrealistic scenario that the empires in EVE provide infrastructure, security and a host of other financially demanding services at no cost."

O'rly

if thats the case then all outlaws -5 and over should not collect bounties from concord. they can get teh sec increase only.

seems like an unrealistic scenario that a police force would fund the very criminals they deem outlaws.



actually, to think about it, i think soundwave is siding with some PvPers who gets bankrolled through mining, trading, or inventor alts, and with the upcoming changes these PvP corps depending on mission running alts would get a harder time controlling and maintaining a hold of a 0.0 sector due to isk constraints.

its although my opinion, but this so-called "fix" is in no way a fix no matter where you look at it, and being "coders", i don't think their analytical brain misses its consequences of such a "fix". and with contradicting reasons as to the taxing, i.e. NPC are temporary only (supposedly), but no tax for miners, market traders or industry-based toons, so, it really keeps me wondering. Sad

Jana Tanaka
Caldari
Tanaka Industries Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.30 19:55:00 - [384]
 

Just a few more thought about the whole issue:

The whole discussion about the unfair safe havens that NPC corps offer is absurd.
In the end there is no personal accountability in Eve.

If an emergency arises one can always transfer funds to an disposable alt and
acquire a new character to make the transaction.

Selling the old character after a cooling off period is also not so difficult,
unless it was involved in some high profile scandal.

Sure loosing contacts and friends could happen or be a problem,
yet people that need to execute Operation "vanish" are unlikely to be impacted by that,
either because of issues of character or since their social ingame-environment
accepts and values their behavior patters.

Nekopyat
Posted - 2009.09.30 20:04:00 - [385]
 

Originally by: Roland Thorne

And more opportunity for lols when a fleet concordorks itself over a pos.

Seriously, this brings an interesting point to my mind. Instead of bringing people to 0.0, bring some aspects of it to them :)


Now i am trying to picture what increadable treasure a POS would have to have in order for someone to try suicide ganking it.

Bhattran
Posted - 2009.10.01 00:03:00 - [386]
 

BREAKING NEWS

Concord Officals report that in Secret meetings with local empire Law Enforcement Officers demands were made for an increase in salary, in order to appease the demands an 11% tax will be imposed on all NPC Corporations. When asked why PC Corporations were exempt from the tax Officials cited the craftiness of PC Corporations in their dealings with ISK.



Jeregh
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.10.01 00:17:00 - [387]
 

Edited by: Jeregh on 01/10/2009 00:21:44
I have said it before and i appearently have to say it again. the npc corps have always been well balanced against player made corps.

being in a npc corp, noob or holding, is not the panacea some believe it to be.

the cons are admitadly nice, no war decs and up till now no corp taxes.

but the cons are many:

no pos

no way to claim sov.

since no sov, cant build super caps(only way for me to get my hands on a
titan/mothership is buy one or steal one.

no corp hangers

no real benifits from the corp(individual members may help out but the corporation membership itself gives no benifits)

no easy access to jump clones(i had to work for that access myself, no riding a corp coattails)

as a npc corp member I am shoot on sight anywhere in lowsec/nosec as a suspected spy/whatever.

no corp wide aggro rights if someone jacks with one of our members.

and worst in my opinion is we are automatically pigeonholed as second class citizens, even appearently by certain devs that lump us all in as RMT isk farmers(even if it was a joke, it was in very poor taste. and it dissapoints me as I felt Prism X was one of the few devs that really seemed to still be connected to the player base in any real fashion.)

as for risk versus reward, we suffer the same risks that any member of any player corp suffers from with the exception of wardecs, we can still be killed anytime anywhere, we still have to compete for the roids, or on the market, or pretty much for anything we want to do in the game. and the really funny part is, those so called benifits we recieve for being in a npc corp. those are avaiable to every EVE player. all you have to do is leave your player corp and you automatically get them. you just have to give up all the benifits your player corp gives you.

as I said before, npc corps always seemed to be pretty well balanced to me, we give up a lot of easy buttons for that war dec immunity. taxes were never on my radar and will have no affect on my remaining in SAK.

even with the intentional crippling of new player and npc holding corps by CCP, many people still enjoy playing the game perfectly well in them and do what they can to make them seem more homey, such as the members in STI and CAS for example. as for the excuse that we dont play the REAL EVE, it has always appeared to me that as a "sandbox" game, however you played was the REAL EVE, since my REAL EVE isnt going to align perfectly with your REAL EVE, and both of our`s wont be the REAL EVE of a third player.

Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
Posted - 2009.10.01 20:11:00 - [388]
 

I dont realy see what the resoning is behind the taxs or anything alse you can though at npc corps. Its just going to inc your data basing needs with 30,000 player corps being made and tracked and disbanded on a much more reguler bases.

People that dont like pvp out side of isk farmers also stay in npc corps. Alot of them. There are alot of highly skilled players in npc corps too.

I dont realy see why you want to force them into a Thousands of little 1-5 man corps having to know they will just disband and reform as they get wardeced?

Its like your trying to force players that live in high sec and want nothing to do with the pvp part of eve into pvp. In the end you keep pushing to hard for that and you will push this part of your player base right out of eve.

rahrahrah2
Posted - 2009.10.02 07:12:00 - [389]
 

Edited by: rahrahrah2 on 02/10/2009 07:13:51
I know what would really help the tax and one man corp problem... Allow 1 man corps created for say 48 hrs if there are no new members say minimum of 3 new members within 48hrs the corp is null and void and trial accounts are not allowed already. most people with alts are 2 accounts deep except hard core players some I know that have 3 or 4 or more etc and there in there own player corps doing the empire pos deals for there private labs etc..

Individual single person war decs npc or not or bounty’s no matter the sec status would be awesome also. There are corps out there that have awesome people and that one guy I would love to shoot or hassle in empire but cant.

Realism well in reality in space or on this planet if I pay the right person the right amount he will shoot anyone anywhere
In real life there is no npc corp.!
sorry forgot to change the charater tab Posted by shr3der currently carebearing in empire Twisted Evil

Anima Aquinas
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.10.02 20:19:00 - [390]
 

Originally by: rahrahrah2
Realism well in reality in space or on this planet if I pay the right person the right amount he will shoot anyone anywhere
In real life there is no npc corp.!


In your example you most likely wouldn't be bribing the cops that protect the rest of us (an would have to pay more then a few minutes worth of work for it), also killing another human being in real life comes with a slightly higher punishment (if caught) then a lowering of sec status or having the equivalent of a cheap car (aka space ship) blown up, such as: serious jail time, death penalty, etc.


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