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Harkwyth Mist
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:09:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: WhiteGhostBear
Too bad this punishes new players


But it doesnt punish new players

AFAIK bounties remain untaxed untill you hit approx 30k .. people doing L1 missions (newbies) dont earn enough to get taxed.

It only affect's people who've been playing a while, and the crying about the tax in CAS chat is already at epic levels, the patch isn't even here yet.

At the end of the day, it's CCP's game, we either play by thier rules or play elsewhere, I plan to stay.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:11:00 - [242]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 20/09/2009 15:11:17
Originally by: Julian Lynq
Do you have some reading diability ?
So you're saying that a corp started by a player to avoid being in an NPC corp is, in fact, not a player corp?

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:15:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 20/09/2009 15:11:17
Originally by: Julian Lynq
Do you have some reading diability ?
So you're saying that a corp started by a player to avoid being in an NPC corp is, in fact, not a player corp?


So you are saying that with player-corporation Ccp means 1 man corps, because it would be that great to have 80.000 of thoose. What Ccp obviously means when they speak of player corporations is "real" corporations, not workaround corporations.

Michwich
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:18:00 - [244]
 

Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Furb Killer
More sociable how compared to being in a corp with thousands of others?


You've been in player corps (including Siigari's Laughing). Looking through your corp history, this presumably includes experiencing what player corps of various sizes and competency do. You were also in factional warfare twice, so I'll use small words.

An NPC corp is not a corp, it is a channel with wardec immunity. The pathetic little pubbie activities that are occasionally undertaken by bitter old vets (like you) notwithstanding, nothing happens in NPC corps that in any way resembles the activities in player corps, large or small. People who spend a lot of time in NPC corps are not playing Eve. People who want a single player game should play one. Or, alternatively, people who like the usual MMO experience of being in a sea of faceless, nameless drones who kill weak little NPCs all day and once and a while form ad hoc groups would probably be better served in a game that fosters that kind of lame excuse for community.

The argument of 'herp derp thousands of members in NPC corps' is fallacious bull****, and everyone who says it knows it. Your hilarious deeply ingrained righteous indignation about internet spaceship injustice is the reason why you oppose anything that reinforces the player interaction that is mostly unique to Eve, and this is absolutely no exception.


Johnny doesnt want to come over to your house to play and mommy cant make him come, get over it.

ShadowMaiden
Amarr
Atrocity.
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:21:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: AdmiralJohn
Originally by: Andra Zeit
Originally by: Doomed Predator

Only lame ass carebears are ****ed off. ''Oh no, my precious isk/per hour ratio has been dented by a few percent.'' Just give me your stuff and ragequit while you're still upset.

Exact. Waste ISK for nothing.. without any sense.
Thats why I'm upset.


How about you join a real corp and have it count for something, in that case.


Pray, let us bask in the light that streams from your moral pinacle and educate us mere mortals on what exactly a "real" corp is?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:24:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: Julian Lynq
So you are saying that with player-corporation Ccp means 1 man corps, because it would be that great to have 80.000 of thoose. What Ccp obviously means when they speak of player corporations is "real" corporations, not workaround corporations.
No, I'm saying that you're reading too much into the CCP statement. Eris is simply saying that they want to nudge people away from NPC corps; you're saying that people will leave the NPC corps; you're then saying that people leaving NPC corps isn't what CCP intends when they're saying that they want to nudge people away from said corps.

In short: you make no sense.

Whether players join "real" corps or not (by which you somehow mean "large" corps, which is a fairly lopsided way of seeing things, imo) is thoroughly irrelevant — you are claiming that people will do what CCP wants them to do. Given how common those 1-man corps are already, you're making a huge assumption of incompetence on CCP's part if you think that they haven't considered that that will be the effect, and they have still chosen to go ahead with the plan.

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:29:00 - [247]
 

Edited by: Julian Lynq on 20/09/2009 15:28:59
Originally by: Tippia
stuff


I am saying ccp indentified a problem in that many people stay in npc corporations and do not join player corporations and thus do not socially interact with each other.

Ccp then came up with a "solution" to the "problem". However the solution they come up with is a bad one because infact it does not solve the "problem" at all. It will not make more people join player corporations and interact with each other. and yes, when i say player-corporations, that is real corporations not 1 man zombie ones.

Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:33:00 - [248]
 

All CCP needs to do in order to fix the 100,000 1 man player corps that would soon rise up after this change is:

1) 10 Players must join a new corporation within 48 hours of it forming for it to remain a viable corporation or it will dissolve.

2) Those first 10 players must be active training accounts.

This way, the new corporations won't simply be 10 alts and a mission runner, and the EVE universe also won't suddenly be flooded with thousands of new corps. A good side effect of this is that all of those "holder" alts that have been holding famous corp names for a couple years now will dissolve too, leaving those names open to be reused.

Lastly, The next patch is shaping up to be one of the best patches in EVE since the Trinity patch gave us shiny new graphics.

BlondieBC
Minmatar
Galactic Exploration and Missions
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:35:00 - [249]
 

Tax should be on sliding scale. 11% first month, 16% second, 21% third. NPC should tax more like 0.0 corps.

Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:35:00 - [250]
 

Edited by: Daemonspirit on 20/09/2009 15:38:32
LOL @ CCP!

Missioners, relax, this amounts to basically a 3.5% to 5% total tax, no big deal at all.

This change will not effect:
Scouting Alts...
0.0 money making alts...
Neutral RR alts...
Miners...
Traders...
Missioners... ??! Wait, whut?!Shocked


As has been pointed out - this amounts to a total of about 3.5% to 5% change in total mission income. Missioners, if you tweak your settings, you can probably become 3.5 to 5% more effective unless your already in a dam Golem... So don't sweat the small stuff...

For anyone that thinks this is suddenly going to empty NPC corps? It won't.

Anyone that *wants* to be in a player corp already is, or they get there quickly.

For those undecided, this does *nothing* whatsoever... Corps have tax too... and the difference between NPC corps 11% tax is just 1 to 10% (some may tax more or less... vOv)

CCP wants more people in Player Corps?
/beginsarcasm Well isn't that just ducky. I feel all warm and fuzzy... /endsarcasm..

If Player Corps and Alliances did more active recruiting, they could probably pull a few people out of the NPC corps, but I doubt many... Because they choose not to play with others (for whatever reason).

War-decs? Anyone with .0001 of a brain can figure out how to avoid wardecs... About the absolute only person this is going to have an effect on is the person who HATES any tax on income, will make a small (one man) corp to mission in, and THEN talks smack in local... Anyone else will usually just fly under the radar, and never even be seen...

Last (but not least) go to just about any decent out of game database of corporations. Sort by members... How many corps are there less than 5? TONS... and the vast majority never get wardec'd now, so why would they get dec'd in the future?


This is just a silly, annoying change that will, in the end, amount to nothing...


edit: Spelling

Cassiopeia Draco
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:39:00 - [251]
 

Anyone want popcorn.

The Assumptions being made here :

1) Every player in an NPC corp leaves and forms a one man band
2) People wont be happy to pay 11% to avoid war decs
3) People wont group together to form corps

Either way all its doing is slightly turning down the isk flow into player wallets.

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:40:00 - [252]
 

Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
All CCP needs to do in order to fix the 100,000 1 man player corps that would soon rise up after this change is:

1) 10 Players must join a new corporation within 48 hours of it forming for it to remain a viable corporation or it will dissolve.

2) Those first 10 players must be active training accounts.

This way, the new corporations won't simply be 10 alts and a mission runner, and the EVE universe also won't suddenly be flooded with thousands of new corps. A good side effect of this is that all of those "holder" alts that have been holding famous corp names for a couple years now will dissolve too, leaving those names open to be reused.

Lastly, The next patch is shaping up to be one of the best patches in EVE since the Trinity patch gave us shiny new graphics.


If they do that it will still not achieve their stated goal of getting more people into player corporations. ppl go into player corporations for the interaction with other players, not for avoiding taxes. thoose that do not want to socially interact with other players still wont do that. in the case they counter 1man corporations, theese people will stay in the npc corporations anyway and pay the tax. GOAL NOT ACHIEVED. Even worse there is a not very small chance of quite a bunch of people acutally quitting the game in that case too. So Again: solution that does not solve the problem and have no positive effect besides maybe reducing lag because of players quitting.

zombiedeadhead
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:50:00 - [253]
 

Imo, the idea that chars in NPC corps will leave and form 1 man corps is just ridiculous.

Andra Zeit
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:52:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: Julian Lynq

I am saying ccp indentified a problem in that many people stay in npc corporations and do not join player corporations and thus do not socially interact with each other.

So.. they see a problem. But the reason for the problem they won't see.
If they wanna solve the problem, pressing player with a tax into player corps, its not a good idea.

Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Not Found.
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:52:00 - [255]
 

Edited by: Sky Marshal on 20/09/2009 15:56:01

I can see that there are a big quantity of no-brain PVP players who don't still skill Human Psychology at Level 1 or more, and so still ask that everyone play the way than THEY want.

Adapt or die. There are people who refuse PVP or work... Sorry have a Corp Life, they are free to do it without have to be punished by some taxes. This tax is just plainly stupid and will NOT motivate people to leave NPC Corps.

Adapt to this fact and skill Human Psychology, or leave the game. Period, end of story.

People like them just tired normal players, and nearly destroy my alliance. Hopefully, they left us, now we have a better fleet participation.


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:54:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: zombiedeadhead
Imo, the idea that chars in NPC corps will leave and form 1 man corps is just ridiculous.
Especially to avoid a 3% decrease in their mission income.

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:56:00 - [257]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: zombiedeadhead
Imo, the idea that chars in NPC corps will leave and form 1 man corps is just ridiculous.
Especially to avoid a 3% decrease in their mission income.


And how ridiculous the idea that they'd even leave npc corps and join real player corps because of a 3% decreaase in income. THANK YOU. idea does not achieve the goal stated = idea is a bad one. solution that doesnt solve the problem.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.20 15:58:00 - [258]
 

Originally by: Julian Lynq
And how ridiculous the idea that they'd even leave npc corps and join real player corps because of a 3% decreaase in income. THANK YOU. idea does not achieve the goal stated = idea is a bad one. solution that doesnt solve the problem.
So now you're saying that people won't leave?! Make up you mind! ugh

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.20 16:02:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Julian Lynq
And how ridiculous the idea that they'd even leave npc corps and join real player corps because of a 3% decreaase in income. THANK YOU. idea does not achieve the goal stated = idea is a bad one. solution that doesnt solve the problem.
So now you're saying that people won't leave?! Make up you mind! ugh


i explained myself well in the above posts. i am not gonna play such forum games with you.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.20 16:05:00 - [260]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 20/09/2009 16:06:36
Originally by: Julian Lynq
i explained myself well in the above posts. i am not gonna play such forum games with you.
You still haven't explained how they'll fail to "encourage" people to join PC corps — you know, the stated goal.

edit: wrong word.

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.20 16:08:00 - [261]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 20/09/2009 16:06:36
Originally by: Julian Lynq
i explained myself well in the above posts. i am not gonna play such forum games with you.
You still haven't explained how they'll fail to "encourage" people to join PC corps you know, the stated goal.

edit: wrong word.


you explained it yourself when you said its ridicoluos idea that people would leave npc corporations because of a 3% lower income.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.20 16:09:00 - [262]
 

Originally by: Julian Lynq
you explained it yourself when you said its ridicoluos idea that people would leave npc corporations because of a 3% lower income.
No, that merely explains why there won't be the deluge of 1-man corps you were talking about earlier.

The encouragement is still there.

Gsptlsnz
Posted - 2009.09.20 16:12:00 - [263]
 

Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 20/09/2009 16:29:53
Originally by: zombiedeadhead
Imo, the idea that chars in NPC corps will leave and form 1 man corps is just ridiculous.

This is the natural decision for someone who's currently playing solo - it's the first thing I thought of when I saw this stupid announcement. It will reduce my interaction with other players (NPC Corp chat), but the alternative is 11% more grinding, which is worse.

CCP can't force me into a player Corp before I'm ready to look for one. I certainly resent being pressured though.

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.20 16:13:00 - [264]
 

Originally by: Tippia



this is going no where. I will stick to discussing this in the other thread.

if you want this discussion going on anyway, do this:

1) goto the previous page and read it all again up to this post.
2) post your stuff again
3) goto step 1)

You can repeat that as often as you like before you get bored eventually.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.20 16:15:00 - [265]
 

Originally by: Julian Lynq
this is going no where. I will stick to discussing this in the other thread.

if you want this discussion going on anyway, do this:
…or you could just explain why this doesn't work as way of encouraging people to join PC corps.

Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2009.09.20 16:15:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: Cassiopeia Draco
Anyone want popcorn.

The Assumptions being made here :

1) Every player in an NPC corp leaves and forms a one man band
2) People wont be happy to pay 11% to avoid war decs
3) People wont group together to form corps

Either way all its doing is slightly turning down the isk flow into player wallets.


Your #3 I'm not following.

People in NPC corps *aren't* leaving to form Corps...


Again, if Player Corps and Alliances did a better job of recruiting new players -

Meh, its not going to make any difference, because (as I said before) players who want to be in corps are (or find them) and those who don't, won't.

The only people who can actually influence this equation, won't, because of their attitudes.


Mikayla Grey
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.20 16:20:00 - [267]
 

Originally by: Julian Lynq
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 20/09/2009 16:06:36
Originally by: Julian Lynq
i explained myself well in the above posts. i am not gonna play such forum games with you.
You still haven't explained how they'll fail to "encourage" people to join PC corps — you know, the stated goal.

edit: wrong word.


you explained it yourself when you said its ridicoluos idea that people would leave npc corporations because of a 3% lower income.


Good you agree the tax should be higher.

Cre'tal
Posted - 2009.09.20 16:51:00 - [268]
 

Originally by: Julian Lynq
Edited by: Julian Lynq on 20/09/2009 14:41:51
Originally by: Cre'tal
Ah thank you. It's been a long while since I've been in an NPC corp, and I was always under the assumption that it was a 10% tax. Well, then, good show, CCP. Adding a NPC tax is a great idea AFAIC.


If youd take the time to properly read the thread youd maybe notice why actually its not such a great idea.

By the way is there a reason you post in all green text ?


Apparently my time is more valuable than yours.

Also, the color green was deliberately chosen because it is scientifically proven to annoy noobs and carebears. If you'd taken the time to properly read through all of my past posts, maybe you'd already know that.

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.09.20 16:53:00 - [269]
 

Time to move back into my 2-man corp, I suppose.

Ukucia
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.20 17:49:00 - [270]
 

Edited by: Ukucia on 20/09/2009 17:49:56
Originally by: Malcanis
There may be as many people dedicated to shooting noob corps as you say. Personally I think it sounds like a pretty dull way to play the game

You need to stop thinking that the way you use wardecs is remotely close to common.

There's 1 of you. Goonswarm just wardec'ed an empire research alliance. You've got a lot of people to kill to "balance the scales" if you think wardecs are not mostly used for griefing.

Quote:
And for the love of god, stop stereotyping everyone who disagrees with you. That's just plain trolling, or at best making yourself look very silly.

Pot, meet kettle.


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