open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked New 11% Tax for all NPC Corps
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 31 32 33 34 [35] 36 37 38 39 : last (39)

Author Topic

Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
Posted - 2009.09.28 07:54:00 - [1021]
 

I recall reading that CCP has made a decision to move away from the sandbox in all areas of the game except 0.0, so perhaps this is one symptom of that.

Princess Jessica
Minmatar
Red Dawn Systema
Posted - 2009.09.28 07:56:00 - [1022]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer

But "taxes are a part of life and should be in the game" they say. Well then I agree...

Getting criminally flagged, your bank accounts locked, and a visit by the cops is what happens when you send money to known criminals and terrorists. So that former sandbox where you once lived tax free may also be that former sandbox where you once made ISK with an alt and sent it all to your piratey main.

That's life, and it's not a sandbox either.

In the end, using an overlord type power, be that the CCP devs or the government of your nation, to push your ideals and desires on others by force and law (they are the same), is a sword that cuts both ways.

Beware.


I don't have any problems with the taxes being implented, but I also like this idea you're proposing about being penalised for helping a character with negative security status financially.
Big Broker is watching you! Twisted Evil


GuntiNDDS
Posted - 2009.09.28 14:21:00 - [1023]
 

put where belongs

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.09.28 15:13:00 - [1024]
 

Edited by: Zartanic on 28/09/2009 15:15:43
Originally by: Serge Bastana
I recall reading that CCP has made a decision to move away from the sandbox in all areas of the game except 0.0, so perhaps this is one symptom of that.


Nothing like an unsourced and unsupported assertion to make a strawman argument.

All I know is any negative mechanic, like an ISK cost or other restriction, is a very lazy way to deal with a perceived issue.

If CCP want to 'encourage' do it by making other parts of the game more attractive. The tax does not affect me one bit and never would have, I did my own corp the day I came out of Trial, but I do know irritating game elements detracting from the game experience are not smart and rarely work to the extent hoped.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.28 15:18:00 - [1025]
 

Meh, *IF* the tax stays at 11% it won't be bad. If the rate hikes up significantly then I forsee an explosion of 1-man corps Shocked. But this still won't be the "free wardecs" system some of you think it will be.

Ms Iustitia
Posted - 2009.09.28 16:00:00 - [1026]
 

Edited by: Ms Iustitia on 28/09/2009 16:03:55
sigh, reading and re-reading what soundwave posted really makes it more confusing as to the reasons, though 1 thing is certain, CCP wants all of EVE to hug PVP, which at its present state it pretty dismal. you can wardec just about anyone you choose and the corp or alliance with established resources would certainly win. it keeps me wondering, if the folks in NPC corps will start 1-man corps, what would stop some wannabe pvpers from waging war on them? the cost? don't think so, at the current state, there's already some players hanging out in starting areas on BCs and BSs can-baiting newbies or can flipping in starter systems just for "kicks".

as i've said in previous posts, most of the players in NPC corps just want the PVE content of EVE, mostly running missions and mission-mining on the side. although taxing NPC corps is "somewhat" acceptable to me personally, the notion of the reasons behind it sickens me.

unrealistic scenario w/in empire? is it not that all players of EVE can use all services or infrastructure of empire? costs or fees depending on standings? and i guess there's no standings lesser than -10.0, is there? well, aside from wardec immunity. now, the funny part, why would you declare war on a player who is of no threat to you or your corp? again, just for "kicks"? how reasonable is that?

if CCP really wants to better PVP, correct the loopholes with wardec immunity, there are "supposedly" pvpers hiding in NPC corps that helps 1 side of 2 warring corps with impunity, and those are the folks that needs to be weed out of npc corps, not the casual gamers. and there are ways, positive ways, to do this rather than force everyone out of NPC corps.

oh, and against isk farmers/traders (referring to prism x comment)? there are ways also to eradicate them, but definitely not this.

oh, almost forgot, if CCP wishes EVE to be an all-PVP platform, they should have done so on the get-go, not advertising it as a "sandbox" game, "do whatever you wish" which made me freakin buy the game and subscribe!!!

Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.28 16:48:00 - [1027]
 

Originally by: Ms Iustitia

oh, almost forgot, if CCP wishes EVE to be an all-PVP platform, they should have done so on the get-go, not advertising it as a "sandbox" game, "do whatever you wish" which made me freakin buy the game and subscribe!!!


Eve has been that way since the beginning. I do thing that in the attempt to add more subscribers the "everything is PvP" aspect of Eve was played down. You have to remember, CCP's genesis was when the CEO ganked a couple of guys on a DoAC server and they got to talking. Found out they were all in Iceland and eventually CCP and Eve came form that. Eve was conceived from a gank. It exists to gank.

There are many better ways to achieve CCP's goal then this tax but the tax is simple, easy and requires little to no coding. Real fixes require real effort. (that is assuming there is a real problem and something needs to be done.)

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.09.28 19:08:00 - [1028]
 

Originally by: Serge Bastana
I recall reading that CCP has made a decision to move away from the sandbox in all areas of the game except 0.0, so perhaps this is one symptom of that.


Asking you to pay for your invincible NPC buddies is less sandboxy c/d?

Tax This
Just Say No To Taxes
Posted - 2009.09.28 19:53:00 - [1029]
 

The sandbox is a lie!

Next they will find a way to tax empire based pvp corps to 'nudge' them into 0.0 for 'real' pvp!YARRRR!!

GG socialist devs.

Nur Vadenn
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2009.09.28 20:13:00 - [1030]
 

Is anyone else concerned at the fact that CCP would apply this 11% tax to try and get people to move to player corporations without addressing the failings of those corporations? It would seem to make sense to me to spend development time on things like corporation tools, recruitment tools, corporation vetting, and the many general disincentives to joining or even looking for a player corporation. Once those failings are addressed then it would seem to make sense to try and clear out the NPC corporations.

While I am not too concerned with the 11% tax itself, the application of the tax sets a troubling precedent. It seems to approve of the methods many player corporations seem to follow regarding handling taxes. They tax their members often with no accountability and not audibility. The ISK is simply whisked away. When asked about this the heads of a player corporation can say whatever they like. I mean every corporation SHOULD have a tax! Hell CCP says so; it really makes no difference where that money goes.

With “good” player run corporations not much more than a myth to some of us in game this change seems a lot like trying to bring someone else’s garbage to our pool. It like CCP felt player corporations needed a crutch to help prop them up. This despite the claims that player run corporations are a flavor of awesome that one must sample to believe, but that all should partake in.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.28 20:14:00 - [1031]
 

Originally by: Tax This
The sandbox is a lie!

Next they will find a way to tax empire based pvp corps to 'nudge' them into 0.0 for 'real' pvp!YARRRR!!

GG socialist devs.



Pfffft, it ain't socialism until I can fully insure T2 and T3 ships, including rigging and modules.


Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.09.28 20:21:00 - [1032]
 
















Laughing
















Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.28 21:23:00 - [1033]
 

Edited by: Kerfira on 28/09/2009 21:23:36
Originally by: Nur Vadenn
Is anyone else concerned at the fact that CCP would apply this 11% tax to try and get people to move to player corporations without addressing the failings of those corporations?

Yes.... It HAS been repeatedly posted by a lot of people.... Completely ignored by CCP though, who obviously prefers to remove symptoms, NOT the problem!

The tax itself is not the issue as it is easily avoided if you want to. Main issue is CCP's inability to understand their game well enough to actually understand what the problems are....

Rolling Eyes

Decarus
Amarr
Apostlecorp inc.
Posted - 2009.09.28 21:26:00 - [1034]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
The tax itself is not the issue as it is easily avoided if you want to. Main issue is CCP's inability to understand their game well enough to actually understand what the problems are....
Rolling Eyes


Or... their future plans involve something they know will cause a larger threadnaught than this here?

Me thinks you're too trusting and optimistic towards CCP. Wink

Domoso
Posted - 2009.09.28 21:53:00 - [1035]
 

Although I haven't read the entirety of this thread I do see a trend in what I've read in the last few pages. And that is it seems that more people are recognizing this for what it is. It is a poor means to change player behavior by CCP instead of addressing the real problems with PVP.....and that is it's a train wreck. Regardless if you believe NPC member should be taxed or not it should be obvious what CCP is doing and what it is not.

Ariane VoxDei
Posted - 2009.09.28 21:56:00 - [1036]
 

Edited by: Ariane VoxDei on 28/09/2009 22:01:13
Originally by: Tax This
The sandbox is a lie!

Next they will find a way to tax empire based pvp corps to 'nudge' them into 0.0 for 'real' pvp!YARRRR!!
Lets throw a few ideas towards that worthy goal of making the scum choose between carebearing or owning up to what they are doing:
* no insurance pay if concord, faction/customs police or gate/station-guns is involved.
* huge fines on any criminal activity (in hisec).
* punitive fees on unsanctioned agression (in hisec) - in addition to the voiding of insurance, that is to say cancelling the insurance contract whether or not the agressor(s) are destroyed.
* sec loss for stealing.
* sec loss for ninjasalvaging.
* But lets be generous, make a system for selling salvaging and looting rights. New profession.
* automatic concordokking of NPC neutrals trying to RR, falcon alts etc. and anyone in their gang and their RR-target and anyone in the RR-targets gang. This regardless of it being a valid target (=victim) or not. Lets call it the 'no npc abuse' rule. (lets see CCP Claw topping this one :P)
* upping gateguns and stationguns to concord level haxdps. Letting people/criminals loiter at such critical infrastructure as gates and station undock points is highly illogical.
* faction police responding to any theft (can flipping) in asteroid belts in highsec. Productive citizens must be protected and the law upheld.
* stations guns instapopping any container dropped within 5km of undock point.
* gateguns instapopping any container (not wrecks) within 20km of gates. Possibly need to yank that to 22km, but anyway its close to the range needed.
* locking gates to negative sec, as opposed to the current regime of aggroing the gate squads. 'get out and stay out'. Extend the limits all the way to 0.1, so anyone with -9.5 or below can only move in 0.0. * Forced ejection to nearest seclevel-system that is appropriate the sec rating.
* make sec recovery slower. You opt for a life of crime, then you live with the consequences. Criminal acts have far to light and shortlasting consequences and get ratted up far too soon, only to be brought back down as soon as they are back in.
* incurring the wrath of concord should make you FFA for the next 24h, with no sec consequences for anyone chosing to make use of it.
* incurring the wrath of faction police should make you FFA, in that factions sovereign space, for the next 24h, with no sec consequences for anyone chosing to make use of it.
* corcord and faction police timers should last 24h. The associated station locks as well. Gates should block transit - the only escapes being: 1) warping around for 24h or doing a logoff for 24h. 2) letting yourself get blown up and have cargo+drops be confiscated.
* no more 'looking the other way' from concord in hisec warfare. "holy ground". Hisec research-pos would be too safe because of this (manufacturing pos is not a problem), so have to sacrifice a those - offline the labs and give 30 days before forced unachoring. Forbid labs in 0.5 and above.

Related pos things as a tradeoff for loss of hisec labs:
* allow reactors to be used in hisec (up to 0.7 only). Possibly a new set of 'certified' reactors that live up to safety regulations and have lower grid and cpu cost - but can not be anchored in 0.4 and below. Alchemy seing more use would be a good thing.
* new structure: compression factory. Allowed anywhere a tower is allowed and allows Rorqual style ore/ice compression. No fuel costs apart from compression BPO/BPC - you are already paying though POS fuel costs. Guess it could be modelled as a special case of the assembly array - becoming the only thing apart from the Rorq that will allow the use of those blueprints.
This array might also improve mining exports from wspace, by easing the logistics burden. Introducing gas compression would also be helpful.
* limit capitals to 0.2 and below - making 0.4 and 0.3 a bit less dangerous to operate POS in.
* Give lowsec POS a HP bonus (towers and everything) of 30% per 0.1 sec level. Edit, fixed scaling.

Some may sound unreasonable or strange, but i can assure you that there are good reasons behind all. At least as good as soundwaves ;)

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.28 22:03:00 - [1037]
 

Edited by: Kerfira on 28/09/2009 22:07:08
Originally by: Decarus
Me thinks you're too trusting and optimistic towards CCP. Wink

I hope so Twisted Evil

Now, if they'd only nerf high-sec L4 income by 50%, all this faffing around with unimportant taxes will be forgiven!
Originally by: Ariane VoxDei
Post from WoW player....

YOU have completely not understood what kind of game you're playing. Read my signature for further understanding!!!
High-sec is SAFER, not SAFE!

Anndy's Wife
Posted - 2009.09.28 22:29:00 - [1038]
 

Quote:
No amount of your complaints will change what is comming. No matter what you feel, CCP feel what your doing is BAD FOR THEIR GAME, and so they are rectifying that, with one of SEVERAL POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS THEY SEE TO FIX THE PROBLEM.

As has been quoted before, they are perfectly happy taking a "wait and see approach". If you don't seem to take the hint, they have stated they are prepared to nudge harder.

heres a thought, all 400 people in your noob chat channel can band up, form a corp, and you still get your tax free life, and you keep the same people that you hang out with now. No one needs lead the corp, ever, you wont have bills if you don't rent stations. If that life is so special to you, just recreate it in the player corp form CCP intends for you to be in.

Why is this so hard? A corp where there are no leaders, no one tells you what to do.

Only your not immune any more.

Which is what you really all want, obviously, or you'd just do as I suggest, and make one of these threadnaughts for each major NPC corp notifying the population that you intend to open said corp, and word of mouth would spread it.


Or you can just admit that what you don't want to give up is your immunity and move on.



I think in all this rabble rabble an important post has been missed.

THIS post is pretty much it, the end of the discussion.

Gsptlsnz
Posted - 2009.09.29 01:41:00 - [1039]
 

Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 29/09/2009 15:20:23
Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 29/09/2009 15:19:34
Are you pretending that highSec WarDec blackmailers are somehow more deserving than PvE players? That they should be provided with helpless and unwilling victims?

They're a fine example of why so many players can't be bothered with EvE combat. Risk-averse gankers, who seek only helpless targets. It's as interesting and instructive to interact with them as it is to battle 0.7 belt rats with a Warrior 1.

CCP's message is all too clear: "play our way or mix with the dregs of online gaming". If I wanted to be blackmailed by scumbags I'd be in a weak player corp already.

It's disappointing to find the latest extortionists to set up in EvE are CCP themselves.

GuntiNDDS
Posted - 2009.09.29 13:00:00 - [1040]
 

look i found a thread Shocked

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2009.09.29 14:03:00 - [1041]
 

Originally by: Anndy's Wife
Quote:
No amount of your complaints will change what is comming. No matter what you feel, CCP feel what your doing is BAD FOR THEIR GAME, and so they are rectifying that, with one of SEVERAL POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS THEY SEE TO FIX THE PROBLEM.

As has been quoted before, they are perfectly happy taking a "wait and see approach". If you don't seem to take the hint, they have stated they are prepared to nudge harder.

heres a thought, all 400 people in your noob chat channel can band up, form a corp, and you still get your tax free life, and you keep the same people that you hang out with now. No one needs lead the corp, ever, you wont have bills if you don't rent stations. If that life is so special to you, just recreate it in the player corp form CCP intends for you to be in.

Why is this so hard? A corp where there are no leaders, no one tells you what to do.

Only your not immune any more.

Which is what you really all want, obviously, or you'd just do as I suggest, and make one of these threadnaughts for each major NPC corp notifying the population that you intend to open said corp, and word of mouth would spread it.


Or you can just admit that what you don't want to give up is your immunity and move on.



I think in all this rabble rabble an important post has been missed.

THIS post is pretty much it, the end of the discussion.


That quote only concentrates on people who do want to remain immune. Like PVP alts, 0.0 Alts, Indie/Invention/Manufacturing alts.

So, if only 21% of the player base w/over 2M SP aren't in Player Corps - what do the aforementioned alts (who are over 2M SP) do to the %? Lower it significantly I assume.


I assume because you see all these threads complaining about how bad 0.0 is at supporting multiple players/system (whether ratting or mining), and I know plenty of people who have indie/inventing/manufacturing alts.

So how many people are we really talking here? If your concerned about people "pvp'ing your wallet" (fekkin lol @ that) - they still can, w/impunity! All those alts won't be affected by the tax.

Mission-running alts will be effected, but all they have to do to maintain their status-quo, is join a one man corp, set up alt-war'dec corps, and jump back and forth if/when war-dec'd. Which tbqh probably won't happen.

Doesn't happen now - whats the point of War-Dec'ing a one-man corp when a) they just jump corps (which, if they leave open with said alt, is NOT an exploit), b) log off for a week and play on another alt/main, c) win, because they actually know how to fight?

I don't live in an NPC corp, only while I dropped corps once. So the tax actually means s***-all to me.

I just think its a silly, stupid change, that will make nothing better.

Won't make empire wars better, won't make low-sec life better, won't assist 0.0 corps with recruitment...

Its just another poorly thought out annoyance.


Esk Esme
Caldari
Smack Crack and Pot
Posted - 2009.09.29 14:15:00 - [1042]
 

lol TBH who care's about a small sum of 11% its a small price to pay to avoide war decs

im a unsocial bastard and dont like ppl in genrial there are a few exseptions tho ppl iv known for a long time

iv moved around a few corps in my time and can tell most ar just full of f4k wits i play were i want how i want when i want so npc corp suits me fine

alot the crying over npc corps is from empire war dec pansy's who are camping some noob mission minning corp and sitting there thinking why aint we getting kills not fights most empire griefer's want kills not fight's

well here's a clue go to lo-sec flashy red hunting go to 0.0 pick a random 0.0 station each day to hit in other words grow some balls go fight ppl who can fight you back

my spelling sux so sue me or pay for english teacher coz i just dnt care lol

Myra2007
Millstone Industries
Posted - 2009.09.29 14:18:00 - [1043]
 

ITT: people who do not understand the meaning of the word 'sandbox'

Mescha
Posted - 2009.09.29 16:52:00 - [1044]
 

The only thing I would say is to give new players a break on the tax. We all want the Eve universe to grow, and should encourage more players to join. I would say give new players a 6 month break in the NPC tax. By this time, they have wrapped their head around the game and are on the path they want to be with some sort of skills to generate income. A NPC Corp. tax right out of the gate discourages newbies. Remember, someone new to this game has a lot to learn right away. Give them some time. These people that are Newbs now will be the future veterans of the game if given a chance.Cool

MIrple
Posted - 2009.09.29 17:15:00 - [1045]
 

Sorry if it has already been suggested but what about making the first npc corp tax at 20% so it forces players to join a corp sooner if they dont like it then the second npc corp will have a tax of 11%.

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.09.29 17:18:00 - [1046]
 

Originally by: Mescha
We all want the Eve universe to grow, and should encourage more players to join.


Honestly, I'd be happier if just about everybody that joined in the past 2 years left the game.

When I first started, NPC corps had pretty low populations, Player corps were large, Empire wars were all over the place, and people actually engaged in fights.

As the game has grown, and people from softer MMO's have joined, NPC corp populations have skyrocketed, as the soft players sought the immunity those corps provided, so they could play eve in "Single Player Mode" instead of interacting with the universe that is EVE.

Now its full of docking game ******s, and people who scream about how PVP is broken (when in fact its probably the most unbroken PVP in MMO history, where a group of 1 day old alts can take down a 5 year old player) while hiding in NPC corps.

No thanks if more of this is all we get.

Gsptlsnz
Posted - 2009.09.29 17:40:00 - [1047]
 

Most of the "PvP" that an EvE rookie sees is just pretend combat. Getting jumped by gankers who have 10 times the fighting power, and no chance of losing. Being ganked is boring for anybody. And ganking is boring for a lot of people.

"Classic" EvE PvP looked interesting before I started to play, but the more I learn the less interesting it seems. It's not entirely the game's fault either. Experienced EvE players delight in griefing new players - it's hardly surprising you're not trusted. Make PvP fun (and lower the barriers to entry (which are considerable) and people will do it.

The new "Red vs Blue" initiative looks like a possible solution to some of this. Instead of whining about "the good old days" you might ask why *you* didn't do something similar years ago.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.09.29 17:58:00 - [1048]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Mescha
We all want the Eve universe to grow, and should encourage more players to join.


Honestly, I'd be happier if just about everybody that joined in the past 2 years left the game.



I wouldn't. I've met some great players who have been less than 2 years in the game.
Generally they're too busy playing to post here though.

Compare with 06ers like Praleon...

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.09.29 18:07:00 - [1049]
 

Originally by: Tax This
The sandbox is a lie!

Next they will find a way to tax empire based pvp corps to 'nudge' them into 0.0 for 'real' pvp!YARRRR!!

GG socialist devs.




Oh good idea! I like it, I'll suggest it in the Assembly and give you credit.

I reckon increasing base market taxes to 3.5% will do for a start. That's about 1/3rd to 1/6th the level of "real life" economies, which qualifies as a "nudge" and would go a little way - a very little way - towards covering the cost of that huge protection subsidy you hi-sec guys get.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.29 18:15:00 - [1050]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/09/2009 18:18:18
Originally by: Ariane VoxDei


* But lets be generous, make a system for selling salvaging and looting rights. New profession.



In testing patchontes
Quote:
Player owned wrecks can now be marked as "Available for all" which prevents CONCORD or criminal repercussions for taking from or destroying free for all wrecks.


Originally by: Ariane VoxDei

* automatic concordokking of NPC neutrals trying to RR, falcon alts etc. and anyone in their gang and their RR-target and anyone in the RR-targets gang. This regardless of it being a valid target (=victim) or not. Lets call it the 'no npc abuse' rule. (lets see CCP Claw topping this one :P)


Great: sit outside Jita 4-4 and RR with a frigate random freighter.

Have your buddy looting the subsequent wreck.


Pages: first : previous : ... 31 32 33 34 [35] 36 37 38 39 : last (39)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only