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DrefsabZN
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.09.25 16:29:00 - [931]
 

Edited by: DrefsabZN on 25/09/2009 16:29:29
Originally by: Droog 1
It's nice to know that CCP are thinking of raising the tax higher if they don't get the 'desired result'. I'm filling up my spare slots with new characters that will remain in the npc corps forever the day this expansion hits. Laughing



/Signed

Anhur Shu
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2009.09.25 17:08:00 - [932]
 

Edited by: Anhur Shu on 25/09/2009 17:09:08
I love it. Those people saying "GOOD, raise it more..." Have you even thought about that? Why is it so hard for you to understand that this will do nothing but eventually cause people to leave the game. You want people to play YOUR way, but guess what, there's a crap-ton of people in NPC corps that don't want to play YOUR way, and if they are forced to they will leave. You know what that means? Even FEWER people for you to shoot at, and build your ships.

The easy "fix" for this is NOT going to work. Want more people moving to player corps? Then fix the REASONS they are NOT doing it in the first place. Forcing a large number of the player base to do something they don't want to, just to fit a game style they have no INCENTIVE to play, is just asking for disaster.

Tax the NPC corps, I don't care. They SHOULD be taxed. But, if you really want to nudge more people into PC's you're going to have to fix the underlying problems, otherwise this game won't last.

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.09.25 17:20:00 - [933]
 

Edited by: Grath Telkin on 25/09/2009 17:26:28
Originally by: Anhur Shu
Edited by: Anhur Shu on 25/09/2009 17:09:08
I love it. Those people saying "GOOD, raise it more..." Have you even thought about that? Why is it so hard for you to understand that this will do nothing but eventually cause people to leave the game. You want people to play YOUR way, but guess what, there's a crap-ton of people in NPC corps that don't want to play YOUR way, and if they are forced to they will leave. You know what that means? Even FEWER people for you to shoot at, and build your ships.
Yea, we hear this dumb **** with ever nerf, OH GOD YOU'LL TAKE YOUR TOYS AND LEAVE.

Nano nerf, was one of the better tantrums, but this one is coming pretty damn close.

I don't buy it, you play now, you'll play then, even if its in a solo corp by yourself.

Originally by: Anhur Shu
The easy "fix" for this is NOT going to work. Want more people moving to player corps? Then fix the REASONS they are NOT doing it in the first place.
maybe because your antisocial freaks of nature, that fail to understand the concept of a MMO, or its social core, which people in NPC corps are ignoring, and also cashing in on at the same time

Originally by: Anhur Shu
Forcing a large number of the player base to do something they don't want to, just to fit a game style they have no INCENTIVE to play, is just asking for disaster.


Maybe if they got off their ass and checked out a few player corps, they'd find one they like, instead of believing all the ghost stories about "evil player corps" and "oppresive atmosphere's". Its all a crock of **** really, and 80% of you buy right into it like the saps you are. Your the same players who get scammed and ganked multiple times, because your suckers. Player corps are actually the core concept of the game, and where the real fun actually begins, but bogey man stories of ****ty corps (and yes, there are crap corps, but there are also very good ones, that range in all sizes) keep you out.

Also the fear of ever having to actually lose a ship. I know its hard to understand and all, but its a game, not your car out front of your house. If you lose a ship, you can get a new one pretty easy. Saying different just makes you a liar. I do in fact have lvl 4 mission alts that ive kept in my own PC corp hoping it ever got wardec'd. I know what you make off level 4 missions, and saying that PVP losses are to steep is just your own cowardice speaking up. If you didn't want to PVP, you probably should have researched the game you were about to sign up for a little bit longer.

Originally by: Anhur Shu
Tax the NPC corps, I don't care. They SHOULD be taxed. But, if you really want to nudge more people into PC's you're going to have to fix the underlying problems, otherwise this game won't last.


If you really don't care, then why the hell did you post in the first place.

EDIT: And to the guy crying about being a loner, stop being stupid and make a one man corp and be done with it, then your REALLY a loner instead of a coward hiding in an NPC corp. The crying and excuses thrown about in this thread are some legendary levels of bull****.

Yes its a sandbox, but yes, the intention is that you do what you want WITH OTHER PEOPLE, not in the newbie corps that are designed to be havens for starting players. CCP are pretty much telling you right now that even though its a sandbox game, they INTEND for you to be in player corps, not NPC corps.

If you don't like it, your a fully free thinking paying customer, and I'm sure you know what to do. You'll look like a fool for throwing a tantrum because your being forced to be social, but w/e, its your money in the end.


Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2009.09.25 17:44:00 - [934]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin

Originally by: Anhur Shu
The easy "fix" for this is NOT going to work. Want more people moving to player corps? Then fix the REASONS they are NOT doing it in the first place.
maybe because your antisocial freaks of nature, that fail to understand the concept of a MMO, or its social core, which people in NPC corps are ignoring, and also cashing in on at the same time

Insulting people will not move your point forward, only crystallize peoples resistance to your point-of-view. Bye the way, there are several people in this thread who are socializing in those npc Corps...


Originally by: Grath Telkin
Maybe if they got off their ass and checked out a few player corps, they'd find one they like, instead of believing all the ghost stories about "evil player corps" and "oppresive atmosphere's".

Perhaps that is how Player run Corps appear to them? Again - telling someone his/her perceptions are wrong, without providing a positive example is counterproductive.


Originally by: Grath Telkin
Its all a crock of **** really, and 80% of you buy right into it like the saps you are.

And 92% of all internet statistics are made up on the spot...

Originally by: Grath Telkin
Your the same players who get scammed and ganked multiple times, because your suckers.

You know what, you might be right - but if so, so what? It just means they aren't good at weeding out the BS - do you want (I'm tempted to say "more of" - but I won'tLaughing) that in your Corp? Wink

Originally by: Grath Telkin
Player corps are actually the core concept of the game, and where the real fun actually begins, but bogey man stories of ****ty corps (and yes, there are crap corps, but there are also very good ones, that range in all sizes) keep you out.

I thought PVP was the "core" concept of the game? Quibbling now, I know - I apologize. And your statement that "the real fun begins..." Begs the question: why then do I get so much fun out of just flying an internet spaceship? This is the BEST sim since ELITE (google it - 22K of code... Shocked Better even than Wing Commander - and bottom line? Its still a game, regardless...

Originally by: Grath Telkin
Also the fear of ever having to actually lose a ship. I know its hard to understand and all, but its a game, not your car out front of your house. If you lose a ship, you can get a new one pretty easy. Saying different just makes you a liar. I do in fact have lvl 4 mission alts that ive kept in my own PC corp hoping it ever got wardec'd. I know what you make off level 4 missions, and saying that PVP losses are to steep is just your own cowardice speaking up. If you didn't want to PVP, you probably should have researched the game you were about to sign up for a little bit longer.

Liar overlooks that not everyone makes isk as easily as anyone else, nor may they be able to purchase GTC's for sale - just because you find it easy, does not transfer to everyone else in the game.

(Just an fyi - I formed a one man corp just to avoid attitudes like yours. Now I'm in a corp w/four other human beings from my workplace - we ran into each other by accident. Would I still be soloing it w/o them? After reading this much of your post - why in the name of god would I voluntarily associate with someone whom I disagree with so much? It *is* my decision... So yes, I would be still solo... Not because I don't like people, but I'm 48, and have -0- patience for "attitude".)

>stupid character limit<



Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2009.09.25 17:58:00 - [935]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin
EDIT: And to the guy crying about being a loner, stop being stupid and make a one man corp and be done with it, then your REALLY a loner instead of a coward hiding in an NPC corp. The crying and excuses thrown about in this thread are some legendary levels of bull****.


My, my, my - speaking of legendary levels of BS... "Coward"?ShockedJust because they disagree w/you on the utility or desirability of Player Corps?

Originally by: Grath Telkin
Yes its a sandbox, but yes, the intention is that you do what you want WITH OTHER PEOPLE, not in the newbie corps that are designed to be havens for starting players. CCP are pretty much telling you right now that even though its a sandbox game, they INTEND for you to be in player corps, not NPC corps.

My suggestion would be then, that CCP prepare for disappointment.

Not because I disagree with their intentions, per se, but rather because apparently they didn't do their homework (Surprised? I'm not) on who/what/how/why concerning this change.

And it still doesn't change the fact that people who express themselves (as you and others have here) are some very FINE examples of why people avoid player corps. Now, if only players could turn the attitude off from the menu page, we might have something...Laughing
Originally by: Grath Telkin
If you don't like it, your a fully free thinking paying customer, and I'm sure you know what to do. You'll look like a fool for throwing a tantrum because your being forced to be social, but w/e, its your money in the end.



Actually - this is the finest moment of your post! It *is* their money, and if they choose to spend it playing an MMO in single mode, anti-socially, within the rules, they can.

CCP is taking steps to stop the whining about being immune from war-decs etc., (which won't stop...) But they haven't closed the n00b corps - and they haven't implemented a forced departure... so therefore, it is still their choice...

Most of the people posting here against this idea, aren't protesting the tax, per se, rather it seems they are protesting CCPs "urine-poor" job of communicating their design changes, customer service and communication with the player base in general...

My Suggestion to "encourage" players to move out of the NPC corps to player corps?

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1185265&page=1

doubt it would get implemented tho - its not a 100% tax on all those RMT's, and involves coding - I hear thats a PITA...Rolling Eyes


Anhur Shu
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2009.09.25 18:03:00 - [936]
 

Edited by: Anhur Shu on 25/09/2009 18:18:38
Originally by: Grath Telkin
insult, insult, insult


apparently you haven't read a thing...and wow, who's emoraging here? And, oh yeah, apparently you also didn't notice that I'm NOT in an NPC corp. ****** tard (look, I can insult too)

1. I never said tax wasn't a good idea, I said the reasoning behind it wasn't good if other things weren't fixed too

2. I don't care about the TAX...see #1

3. I'm not goin anywhere, I love this game, which is WHY I care about NOT losing other players

Insult me, and others all you want for playing their way. But, keep this in mind...I haven't heard any of THEM insulting any of YOU for you playing YOUR way.

edit - and don't presume to KNOW me, or how I like to play this game that I pay for...I joined this game FOR the PvP


Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2009.09.25 19:00:00 - [937]
 

C'MON GAIZ! Don't slow down now!

WE CAN MAKE 50 PAGES!LaughingLaughingLaughing


Captain Tardbar
State Protectorate
Posted - 2009.09.25 19:11:00 - [938]
 

Edited by: Captain Tardbar on 25/09/2009 19:11:45
Originally by: Daemonspirit
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ukucia
A nudge is still forcing.
No. A nudge is a suggestion. Forcing is removing choice. You still have full control of what you want to do, only now, the PC corps have another tool at their disposal in trying to convince you.
Quote:
And if you seriously think that low taxes is going to spur recruiting, then your corp must be awful. There has to be something you guys do that you can brag about that's better than "We can protect your money just like the Cayman Islands!"
…let me stress that: another tool, on top of the ones they already have — one that they didn't have before. For some, it may be the deciding factor. Given how many are howling at the change, it may actually be quite a few…


Your a bloody optimist now...

If only CCP had made some tools so that Corporations and Alliances could get the "recruiting" word out, a forum, or an in game channel...

oh wait...

*maybe* MAYBE, Player Corporations are the ones failing? Failing to attract that new player? Failing to counter the "bitter vets" in the rookie channel? Failing to *do* anything different?




It seems like to me that many corps are highly elitist types who aren't led by people without true charisma or integrity.

Maybe if there was an organized "zerg" corp which let everyone in with open arms and was simply about being and fair and equal among rather than politics.

Though the nice guys often fail in the organization category of getting everyone to work together. Maybe if they had better in game tools.

baltec1
Posted - 2009.09.25 19:12:00 - [939]
 

Originally by: Daemonspirit
C'MON GAIZ! Don't slow down now!

WE CAN MAKE 50 PAGES!LaughingLaughingLaughing





Sorry went out for a few hours, what are we talking about now?

Captain Tardbar
State Protectorate
Posted - 2009.09.25 19:44:00 - [940]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Real companies pay me to work for them, I don't pay them to let me work for them.


You know that always bothered me about the way the current system works.

The corps should be playing the players like employees for total work done rather than they paying the corps.

Captain Tardbar
State Protectorate
Posted - 2009.09.25 19:57:00 - [941]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
First of all, CCP has not defined what problem they're trying to solve. That people are in NPC corp is not an inherent problem, but just a symptom. The real problem is somewhere else.... Is it that missions pay too much? Is it that pirates have too few corp to wardec?
CCP hasn't told us....

Secondly, while this may move a lot of people out of NPC corp, most of them will move into the WRONG type of player corp, ie. their own little 1-man world. These players will now be out of the social interaction in the NPC corp, which is where people usually meet up and decide to form player corp together WHEN THEY ARE READY!

In short, the problem is not defined, and the 'solution' will have much bigger detrimental effects than what small positive effect there may be....

Try to get a perspective....



I think its pretty clear.

CCP wants you to participate in FW if nothing more.

I'm surprised no one even mention the fact that players who are in the Militia are excluded from the tax.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.09.25 20:18:00 - [942]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 25/09/2009 20:19:05
Originally by: Captain Tardbar
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Real companies pay me to work for them, I don't pay them to let me work for them.


You know that always bothered me about the way the current system works.

The corps should be playing the players like employees for total work done rather than they paying the corps.


I think I mentioned this before, so forgive me for repeating it if that is the case.

This is exactly how corps work now in RL. If you and your team work on a contract/projecto for a corp, the funds from your client don't go directly into your wallet. They first go the the corp you work for, expenses are paid, profit is banked, and you are given a fraction of that amount in the form of a paycheck or commision.
Of course your NPC corp doesn't pay you, your agent does, but you get my meaning.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.09.25 20:24:00 - [943]
 

Quote:
My Suggestion to "encourage" players to move out of the NPC corps to player corps?


The idea proposed in the other thread certainly has merit. In fact CCP has made some small progress as far as making it easier to handle recruitment issues already, but there is certainly room for improvement there.
With the new more powerful browser coming out ingame, and the proposed COSMOS (Spacebook, whatever they name it) tech for out of game we may very well see these thing happening and more.

Remember, this is just a first step. I imagine we will see a mixture of the carrot and the stick before we are done.


Bjron
Posted - 2009.09.25 20:43:00 - [944]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Daemonspirit
C'MON GAIZ! Don't slow down now!

WE CAN MAKE 50 PAGES!LaughingLaughingLaughing





Sorry went out for a few hours, what are we talking about now?



First of all, I am back.

Now we are still QQing about internet play money, in a game that they choose to play, just a new flavor of tear.
A game that is a MMO, and promotes playing with ohter players.
Because god forbid that a player has to interact with some one else in a multipalyer online game Rolling Eyes
And if they really, really didnt like it, they can quit playing.

And lets not forget that the internet play monies is srs buizness.Rolling Eyes

and lets not forget that getting to 32 pages on a 11% tax, that many people have worked out, that the tax only boils down to 2-5% after salvaging and looting a mission, and that 2-5% is srs buiznessRolling Eyes

let also re-state that some people feel this will not change anything, because there massive ammout of info on CCPs plan over all, lets them say so.Rolling Eyes

Mah eyes be rolling outta mah head now.

O-wait, lets not forget the people who think the tax will hurt new players, when the tax is only applyed to rewards over 100K and bountys over 30k?

Come on guys, we can get to page 40, I got faith in you.


This also not forget the guy who threw a tartirum on me, because I am a immature 23 year old who lives with his mom and dad, and I can say with pride, that yes I still do.
A immature 23 year old who owns a new truck and works a full time job.

Lets see, I think I about got every thing covered.

Yeah, thats about it.

Here is a TL:DR versonn of this thread.

Person 1, QQ tax BBBBAAAWWWW Crying or Very sad

Person 2, ze tax, its does nothing! Shocked

Person 3, I am a lone wolf, I play MMOs and this hurts me.
YARRRR!!

Person 4, this thread is stupid. Surprised

Me, lolz, internet moines is srsLaughing

Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
Posted - 2009.09.25 21:10:00 - [945]
 

I think we can safely say this is now a threadnaught, may god bless all those who wail in her.

I would be interested to see if this is part of some greater plan on CCP's part actually, and it does make you wonder, if they do have a bigger game plan, are they only letting people know about the tax without further details to sit back and watch the fireworks?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.09.25 21:17:00 - [946]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 25/09/2009 17:26:28
Originally by: Anhur Shu
Edited by: Anhur Shu on 25/09/2009 17:09:08
I love it. Those people saying "GOOD, raise it more..." Have you even thought about that? Why is it so hard for you to understand that this will do nothing but eventually cause people to leave the game. You want people to play YOUR way, but guess what, there's a crap-ton of people in NPC corps that don't want to play YOUR way, and if they are forced to they will leave. You know what that means? Even FEWER people for you to shoot at, and build your ships.
Yea, we hear this dumb **** with ever nerf, OH GOD YOU'LL TAKE YOUR TOYS AND LEAVE.

Nano nerf, was one of the better tantrums, but this one is coming pretty damn close.

I don't buy it, you play now, you'll play then, even if its in a solo corp by yourself.

Originally by: Anhur Shu
The easy "fix" for this is NOT going to work. Want more people moving to player corps? Then fix the REASONS they are NOT doing it in the first place.
maybe because your antisocial freaks of nature, that fail to understand the concept of a MMO, or its social core, which people in NPC corps are ignoring, and also cashing in on at the same time

Originally by: Anhur Shu
Forcing a large number of the player base to do something they don't want to, just to fit a game style they have no INCENTIVE to play, is just asking for disaster.


Maybe if they got off their ass and checked out a few player corps, they'd find one they like, instead of believing all the ghost stories about "evil player corps" and "oppresive atmosphere's". Its all a crock of **** really, and 80% of you buy right into it like the saps you are. Your the same players who get scammed and ganked multiple times, because your suckers. Player corps are actually the core concept of the game, and where the real fun actually begins, but bogey man stories of ****ty corps (and yes, there are crap corps, but there are also very good ones, that range in all sizes) keep you out.

Also the fear of ever having to actually lose a ship. I know its hard to understand and all, but its a game, not your car out front of your house. If you lose a ship, you can get a new one pretty easy. Saying different just makes you a liar. I do in fact have lvl 4 mission alts that ive kept in my own PC corp hoping it ever got wardec'd. I know what you make off level 4 missions, and saying that PVP losses are to steep is just your own cowardice speaking up. If you didn't want to PVP, you probably should have researched the game you were about to sign up for a little bit longer.

Originally by: Anhur Shu
Tax the NPC corps, I don't care. They SHOULD be taxed. But, if you really want to nudge more people into PC's you're going to have to fix the underlying problems, otherwise this game won't last.


If you really don't care, then why the hell did you post in the first place.

EDIT: And to the guy crying about being a loner, stop being stupid and make a one man corp and be done with it, then your REALLY a loner instead of a coward hiding in an NPC corp. The crying and excuses thrown about in this thread are some legendary levels of bull****.

Yes its a sandbox, but yes, the intention is that you do what you want WITH OTHER PEOPLE, not in the newbie corps that are designed to be havens for starting players. CCP are pretty much telling you right now that even though its a sandbox game, they INTEND for you to be in player corps, not NPC corps.

If you don't like it, your a fully free thinking paying customer, and I'm sure you know what to do. You'll look like a fool for throwing a tantrum because your being forced to be social, but w/e, its your money in the end.




HE SPEAKS THE TRUTH













LETS CRUCIFY HIM!

Hamshoe
Posted - 2009.09.25 21:32:00 - [947]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin
...your being forced to be social, but w/e, its your money in the end.


Does that really make sense to you?

You nicely illustrate the point that people are by far the worst feature in EVE.

AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar
Atomic Geese
Posted - 2009.09.25 21:45:00 - [948]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
Edited by: Kerfira on 25/09/2009 15:42:47
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Kerfira,

*snip*
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja
Post #924

Point a. And that is what some people like! Why should they be punished for that? Why not reward them for chosing something different instead?
Point b. It happens, but for casual players it's usually not what they do. The other type of people are the ones liking to help newbies, for which the NPC corp channels is the right place.
Point c. Local chat as a social place in high-sec! LOL. You know yourself you're lying on this!

The point is, you're trying to force YOUR way of playing on other people, just like CCP....

PS: Two of my characters are in a top-end 0.0 PvP corp for more than 2 years now. I know exactly how player corp works! However, I understand that other people may want to play differently without feeling discriminated against. You don't!



I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything - if you re-read what I had said, you maybe notice I was pointing out that it is, ultimately, the player's own choice whether they join a player corporation, what kind of corporation they join, what rules they accept or do not, etc. They cannot and should not expect to be 'unpunished' for not being willing to do these things, and if they really don't want to play by someone else's rules, they and their close-knit group of friends can form their own corporation where they have their own rules, or overall lack thereof.

With regards to point C, let me give you a bit of an idea...

1. The first corporations I began industrial dealings with and set up mineral contracts with I contacted via local
2. My initial contact with FIX members way back when was via local, and I was invited to their diplomacy channel for recruitment purposes after we'd talked for a while in local
3. I have made many friends and far more enemies by having some conversations in local


If you're going to bring time spent in corporations into this, I'll give you this as my personal timeline:

2005.02.18
Created my first 'main' and joined some friends in playing EVE - our focuses were industry, mining, trade and research; we had our own corporation

2005.~06.x
They stop playing actively and I find myself doing more things on my own and with some people that I had begun talking to, primarily those that I was engaging in trading/industrial activities with

2005.06.12
Began my own 1-man corp and was messing with other miners/industrialists

2005.08.20
Join a corporation in the FIX alliance and move on down to Querious. Spend the next 4 months with them.

2006.01.18
Join BYDI on recommendation from two of my friends - spend the next few months between them, my one-man corporation (for personal empire war purposes either alone or with a friend or two) and another friend's corporation

2006.06.19
Join Catalyst Reaction and move down to Immensea for a little over a month before the corporation essentially disbands due to merging with another alliance

2006.~08.X
Spend more time between my one-man corp and BYDI till my PC breaks and I am forced to stop playing actively from ~2007.01 till around 2008.05 - spend most of my time meta-gaming with friends either out of game or via some in-game activity on a PC that can't handle PVP

2008.05-2009.08
Spend this time in a small tight-knit corporation of friends

2009.08-present
Am in one of the better/best PVP alliances currently in the game


tl;dr version: how long you've been in a corporation doesn't justify believing you know more that someone else about something - I'm sure there are people that have been playing for less than half a year that know more than both of us combined about PVP, alliance politics, corporation politics, keeping alliance/corporation members or just people in general happy etc.

goazer
Amarr
CRICE Corp
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.25 21:49:00 - [949]
 

Edited by: goazer on 25/09/2009 21:49:19
Just join FW militia... Zero tax NPC corp...

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.09.25 21:51:00 - [950]
 

Originally by: goazer
Edited by: goazer on 25/09/2009 21:49:19
Just join FW militia... Zero tax NPC corp...


also completely tanks your racial standings making you kos in large sections of empire

AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar
Atomic Geese
Posted - 2009.09.25 22:00:00 - [951]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
Edited by: Kerfira on 25/09/2009 15:42:47
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Kerfira,

*snip*
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja
Post #924

Point a. And that is what some people like! Why should they be punished for that? Why not reward them for chosing something different instead?
Point b. It happens, but for casual players it's usually not what they do. The other type of people are the ones liking to help newbies, for which the NPC corp channels is the right place.
Point c. Local chat as a social place in high-sec! LOL. You know yourself you're lying on this!

The point is, you're trying to force YOUR way of playing on other people, just like CCP....

PS: Two of my characters are in a top-end 0.0 PvP corp for more than 2 years now. I know exactly how player corp works! However, I understand that other people may want to play differently without feeling discriminated against. You don't!




I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything - if you re-read what I had said, you maybe notice I was pointing out that it is, ultimately, the player's own choice whether they join a player corporation, what kind of corporation they join, what rules they accept or do not, etc. They cannot and should not expect to be 'unpunished' for not being willing to do these things, and if they really don't want to play by someone else's rules, they and their close-knit group of friends can form their own corporation where they have their own rules, or overall lack thereof.

With regards to point C, let me give you a bit of an idea...

1. The first corporations I began industrial dealings with and set up mineral contracts with I contacted via local
2. My initial contact with FIX members way back when was via local, and I was invited to their diplomacy channel for recruitment purposes after we'd talked for a while in local
3. I have made many friends and far more enemies by having some conversations in local


If you're going to bring time spent in corporations into this, I'll give you this as my personal timeline:

2005.02.18
Created my first 'main' and joined some friends in playing EVE - our focuses were industry, mining, trade and research; we had our own corporation

2005.~06.x
They stop playing actively and I find myself doing more things on my own and with some people that I had begun talking to, primarily those that I was engaging in trading/industrial activities with

2005.06.12
Began my own 1-man corp and was messing with other miners/industrialists

2005.08.20
Join a corporation in the FIX alliance and move on down to Querious. Spend the next 4 months with them.

2006.01.18
Join BYDI on recommendation from two of my friends - spend the next few months between them, my one-man corporation (for personal empire war purposes either alone or with a friend or two) and another friend's corporation

2006.06.19
Join Catalyst Reaction and move down to Immensea for a little over a month before the corporation essentially disbands due to merging with another alliance

2006.~08.X
Spend more time between my one-man corp and BYDI till my PC breaks and I am forced to stop playing actively from ~2007.01 till around 2008.05 - spend most of my time meta-gaming with friends either out of game or via some in-game activity on a PC that can't handle PVP

2008.05-2009.08
Spend this time in a small tight-knit corporation of friends

2009.08-present
Am in one of the better/best PVP alliances currently in the game


tl;dr version: how long you've been in a corporation doesn't justify believing you know more that someone else about something - I'm sure there are people that have been playing for less than half a year that know more than both of us combined about PVP, alliance politics, corporation politics, keeping alliance/corporation members or just people in general happy etc.

goazer
Amarr
CRICE Corp
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.25 22:13:00 - [952]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: goazer
Edited by: goazer on 25/09/2009 21:49:19
Just join FW militia... Zero tax NPC corp...


also completely tanks your racial standings making you kos in large sections of empire
Well, since when mission alts were travelling over 5 jumps of their agent anyway..? Laughing Wink

Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2009.09.25 23:03:00 - [953]
 

Originally by: Malcanis

<<clippage>>
HE SPEAKS THE TRUTH

LETS CRUCIFY HIM!


Sad

I expected better.

I've been in contact w/one of my friends, he says that they now *do not* wish to go to 0.0 until after the new patch, haven't heard from the other two corps - and the last one is an odd bunch - Not so much "Industrialists" as "do anything'ists..."

So, they have put up a thread on their forums and are now engaged at pointing at it and laughing... and will let me know whenever...



Tuscanspeed
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.25 23:20:00 - [954]
 

Originally by: Bjron
First of all, I am back.

Now we are still QQing about internet play money, in a game that they choose to play, just a new flavor of tear.
A game that is a MMO, and promotes playing with ohter players.
Because god forbid that a player has to interact with some one else in a multipalyer online game Rolling Eyes
And if they really, really didnt like it, they can quit playing.

And lets not forget that the internet play monies is srs buizness.Rolling Eyes

and lets not forget that getting to 32 pages on a 11% tax, that many people have worked out, that the tax only boils down to 2-5% after salvaging and looting a mission, and that 2-5% is srs buiznessRolling Eyes

let also re-state that some people feel this will not change anything, because there massive ammout of info on CCPs plan over all, lets them say so.Rolling Eyes

Mah eyes be rolling outta mah head now.

O-wait, lets not forget the people who think the tax will hurt new players, when the tax is only applyed to rewards over 100K and bountys over 30k?

Come on guys, we can get to page 40, I got faith in you.


This also not forget the guy who threw a tartirum on me, because I am a immature 23 year old who lives with his mom and dad, and I can say with pride, that yes I still do.
A immature 23 year old who owns a new truck and works a full time job.

Lets see, I think I about got every thing covered.

Yeah, thats about it.

Here is a TL:DR versonn of this thread.

Person 1, QQ tax BBBBAAAWWWW Crying or Very sad

Person 2, ze tax, its does nothing! Shocked

Person 3, I am a lone wolf, I play MMOs and this hurts me.
YARRRR!!

Person 4, this thread is stupid. Surprised

Me, lolz, internet moines is srsLaughing


You know. As much of an ass you are and how absolutely so far off base your opinion is, I'm half inclined to agree.

I could care less what they set the tax at. Could be 100% for all I care.

Not going to get me to join a player corp. Going to take fixes that just simply have ZERO chance of happening. So I'm happy where I'm at. I have no intentions of moving.

But that's the whole point right? This change won't actually force anyone to move except people that would jump ship at the slightest change anyway.

So why waste dev time on it?

Is fixing sov and fw THAT hard?

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.25 23:21:00 - [955]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin

Angry rant



Look your post and you will see exactly why a lot of people will not enter your corp.

Who will want to have someone doing angry rants like yours on the corp chat?




Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.25 23:35:00 - [956]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 25/09/2009 23:40:03
Originally by: baltec1

Still grasping at those straws I see. Tell me, how much would you panic if you had 3 war decs from alliences of several hundred people in the span of a month AND had another going after your alt corps tower? This is what NPC corps protect you from and it only seems fair that you pay for it with a little tax.


Seeing as I am and have been in a player corp for 3 years, I have been wardecced while having a tower in high sec, I will not panic at all.

Next time, before speaking and putting a foot in your mouth, at least look my corp in game.

Originally by: baltec1

2. Point still stands, those assets are always at risk and cant be dumped in a station till its over. Unless the war decers are truely pathetic.




With 24 hours warning you can dismantle every tower you want or put weapons in it (speaking of high sec where you don't need weapons outside a wardec).

At worst you will lose the minerals used for some production and lock some research slots until you reactivate the labs you offlined to online the weapons.

Not much experience in POS management or you are simply inventing difficulties that don't exist?




Lotus Sutra
Caldari
Sutra Inc
Posted - 2009.09.26 00:10:00 - [957]
 

Edited by: Lotus Sutra on 26/09/2009 00:12:15
This is my final statement on this topic

Go Here

Ukucia
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.26 01:17:00 - [958]
 

Edited by: Ukucia on 26/09/2009 01:23:13
Originally by: Grath Telkin
maybe because your antisocial freaks of nature, that fail to understand the concept of a MMO, or its social core, which people in NPC corps are ignoring, and also cashing in on at the same time

And you antisocial freaks of nature don't understand the concept of "sandbox". 'course, this 'nerf' doesn't affect you directly and you have all sorts of delusions about what it's like in an NPC corp, so it must be good, right?

Quote:
Maybe if they got off their ass and checked out a few player corps, they'd find one they like, instead of believing all the ghost stories about "evil player corps" and "oppresive atmosphere's". Its all a crock of **** really, and 80% of you buy right into it like the saps you are.

Hi. I'm from 2005. I've been in player corps. I've been in 0.0. I also have a real life. That real life means at most 2 hours nightly, and around 4-8 hours on the weekend to play eve.

I'm not interested in spending that time figuring out which directors of new corps lie.

Quote:
Player corps are actually the core concept of the game, and where the real fun actually begins, but bogey man stories of ****ty corps (and yes, there are crap corps, but there are also very good ones, that range in all sizes) keep you out.

Boy, it's good you came along. Since everyone likes exactly what you like, you can save the auto, fashion, restaurant and movie industries TONS of money trying to figure out what people want. They might think that not all people like the same things, but clearly you in your infinite wisdom will set them right.

Quote:
Also the fear of ever having to actually lose a ship. I know its hard to understand and all, but its a game, not your car out front of your house.

I believe this was first debunked on page 2-ish.
I've been in player corps. I've been in alliances. I killed plenty of BoB ships back in the day, and got killed plenty of time by BoB.

Quote:
I know what you make off level 4 missions, and saying that PVP losses are to steep is just your own cowardice speaking up. If you didn't want to PVP, you probably should have researched the game you were about to sign up for a little bit longer.

I like crafting. Please list any other MMOs with decent crafting systems. (I'll save you the time: there aren't any).

Quote:
If you really don't care, then why the hell did you post in the first place.

Might I suggest actually reading the thread before assuming you have any idea what we're talking about? It's kinda like you barged into the room and assumed we're talking about Survivor:<random location> when we're actually talking about astrophysics.

Quote:
EDIT: And to the guy crying about being a loner, stop being stupid and make a one man corp and be done with it, then your REALLY a loner instead of a coward hiding in an NPC corp. The crying and excuses thrown about in this thread are some legendary levels of bull****.

Really...The NPC corp player in 0.0 is the coward?

Quote:
Yes its a sandbox, but yes, the intention is that you do what you want WITH OTHER PEOPLE, not in the newbie corps that are designed to be havens for starting players. CCP are pretty much telling you right now that even though its a sandbox game, they INTEND for you to be in player corps, not NPC corps.

Then it's not a sandbox.

Quote:
You'll look like a fool for throwing a tantrum because your being forced to be social, but w/e, its your money in the end.

This is on the bottom of my screen on a typical night:
Corp(400)
This is on the bottom of the screen of a typical PC that will take 'casual' players
Corp(10)

Which do you think is being more social, Twinklepants?

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.09.26 01:39:00 - [959]
 

Confirming that my corp chat with 400 ppl in it is less social then a corp chat with 10. To think otherwise would go against ccp's wishes that you play the game "how they intended".


Lotus Sutra
Caldari
Sutra Inc
Posted - 2009.09.26 02:07:00 - [960]
 

Edited by: Lotus Sutra on 26/09/2009 02:10:01
Originally by: Grath Telkin

EDIT: And to the guy crying about being a loner, stop being stupid and make a one man corp and be done with it, then your REALLY a loner instead of a coward hiding in an NPC corp.


You don't know how to read do you. Your arrogant, overbearing, self centered, egotistical and stupid. I have several characters and [OMG] they are all except 1 in 1 man player corps. That 1 is my mission runner who I have just been too lazy to bother moving to a 1 man corp. I AM the Lone Wolf type. The Loner. I do every damn thing in this game alone, that you scream over and over again that 'you can only do in a corp with others'.

YOUR not required for me to enjoy this game. When I want some pew pew I load up my PVP alt, go roaming in low/null sec and see what kind of fights I can get into. Sometimes I'll join a few guys I know out there for a small fleet roam, and sometimes they ask me to join up on larger ops. That is the only time I MUST engage in group activities with others in this game and even then doing so is by MY choice.

All other times, I don't need anyone else to help me with anything in the game.

Your utter stupidity shows with that statement "quit being a coward hiding in an NPC corp".

You should really be ashamed of that statement because it shows what a gormless fool you are and how little you use what little brains you have to think with. If I were your father, I would shoot myself in shame for having sired something as idiotic as you.


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