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Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.19 19:53:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Kerfira on 19/09/2009 22:07:52
Originally by: Lui Kai
Originally by: Kerfira
Question: Can't one-man corp be dissolved instantly without the 24-hour waiting period?

Yes.

Well, that basically settles it, doesn't it?

This change will have absolutely NO practical implications!

Players now in an NPC corp who'd have to pay taxes after the change will simply move to a one-man corp.

When they get wardec'ed they simply drop the corp, and create a new one. The cost of that (for me) on sisi was 1.6m ISK, which is just about what I'd lose in an hour missioning due to taxes.

So in effect, all this will do is take social interaction that does happen in noob corp out of the game!
Taking social interaction away from a game is not really all that good for an MMO, is it?

Haakelen
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:01:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
So in effect, all this will do is take social interaction that does happen in noob corp out of the game!


hi how do i get a quest
BUY THIS CONTRACT [links it 30 times every 5 minutes]
yo newbies check out MY GOLEM WITH 10B WORTH OF OFFICER MODS ON IT AREN'T I COOL
what's a jita
nobody told me how to get a quest
BUY THIS OTHER CONTRACT

Yeah, I can see what you mean. How dare CCP infringe on this paragon of human interaction.

English only please. Zymurgist

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:06:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Haakelen
Yeah, I can see what you mean. How dare CCP infringe on this paragon of human interaction.

While there is a bit of that, it's relatively minor. The noob corps actually DO have a goodly amount of social interaction.....

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:14:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Haakelen
Yeah, I can see what you mean. How dare CCP infringe on this paragon of human interaction.

While there is a bit of that, it's relatively minor. The noob corps actually DO have a goodly amount of social interaction.....


An 11% tax isn't stopping that. Rolling Eyes

Clytamnestra
The Tuskers
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:24:00 - [65]
 

You're only taxed on mission rewards and rat bounties right?
What's 11% off of an L4? Not all that much is it?

It should have been something like 25% or 30%, in my opinion.

Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:25:00 - [66]
 

My OCD has kicked in and I demand that the tax be set to 15% (nice round number).

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:29:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Kerfira on 19/09/2009 20:38:12
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
An 11% tax isn't stopping that. Rolling Eyes

The point of the post (#61) above was to show that taxing noob corps forcing players into one-man corp would have absolutely NO effect!
Wardec's are simply so easy to avoid that players would just move into those one-man corp, but dodge any wardec's coming their way with minimal cost (for me, that was one hours worth of tax).

Thus, the only real effect of a change like this would be to move players from a corp where they had interaction with other players, into a corp where they didn't. There'd be no additional combat for people like you (or me for that matter), nor much ISK taken out of the game!

Players not caring whether they pax tax would stay in noob corp. Players who does care would simply create one-man corp after one-man corp as they got wardec's.
Originally by: Clytamnestra
What's 11% off of an L4? Not all that much is it?

It's even worse. My average taxable earnings from missions are only 31% of the total (LP/loot/salvage are not taxed). Thus making the 11% into a grand total of 3.41% Laughing

Haakelen
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:31:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
The point of the post (#61) above was to show that taxing noob corps forcing players into one-man corp would have absolutely NO effect!
Wardec's are simply so easy to avoid that players would just move into those one-man corp, but dodge any wardec's coming their way with minimal cost (for me, that was one hours worth of tax).


We're in agreement! Make it a 25% tax, and patch wardec avoidance loopholes. Voila.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:34:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Haakelen
We're in agreement! Make it a 25% tax, and patch wardec avoidance loopholes. Voila.

Well.... The whole reason for this forum is to help CCP refine and perfect their game mechanics changes, isn't it?

Twisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil

CCP Eris Discordia

Posted - 2009.09.19 20:48:00 - [70]
 

Few comments

- You often need special access and things to be able to change parts of the website, including patchnotes. These can only be edited by community developers, not by game designers like me. We are releasing updates to SISI as soon as they are testable and this was the first big one so patchnotes came up after SISI went out really.

We aren't trying to hide it or anything, if we wanted to hide it..then why would it be on the test server?

- We have no plans at the moment to change wardecs

- I don't drink beer, but black russians, shots or amaretto Wink

- As someone mentioned, the tax is more an encouragement and a nudge towards joining a player corporation than a command. You still have the choice to stay in the NPC corporation and in high sec and mine or run missions.


Burning Horizon
nul-li-fy
Atlas.
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:51:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Burning Horizon on 19/09/2009 20:51:03
I'll still buy you a beer, so when you reject it, i can have it myself Twisted Evil

CCP Eris Discordia

Posted - 2009.09.19 20:53:00 - [72]
 

Very cunning

TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:55:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
Few comments

- You often need special access and things to be able to change parts of the website, including patchnotes. These can only be edited by community developers, not by game designers like me. We are releasing updates to SISI as soon as they are testable and this was the first big one so patchnotes came up after SISI went out really.

We aren't trying to hide it or anything, if we wanted to hide it..then why would it be on the test server?

- We have no plans at the moment to change wardecs

- I don't drink beer, but black russians, shots or amaretto Wink

- As someone mentioned, the tax is more an encouragement and a nudge towards joining a player corporation than a command. You still have the choice to stay in the NPC corporation and in high sec and mine or run missions.




Marry me.


Arcelian
Amarr
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:56:00 - [74]
 

So whats to stop someone from just making their own one or two man corp and putting the tax to 0%?

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:56:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
We aren't trying to hide it or anything, if we wanted to hide it..then why would it be on the test server?

Because CCP are actually part of the Illuminati or some crazy jazz.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:57:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Arcelian
So whats to stop someone from just making their own one or two man corp and putting the tax to 0%?
Nothing. Why should there be?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:57:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Arcelian
So whats to stop someone from just making their own one or two man corp and putting the tax to 0%?

Absolutely nothing. That's pretty much the idea, to make you almost want to create a one-man corp instead of sticking in the NPC ones. That way you CAN be wardecced.

Ralavina
Vivicide
Posted - 2009.09.19 20:58:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Arcelian
So whats to stop someone from just making their own one or two man corp and putting the tax to 0%?


That's the POINT.

Arceliun
Posted - 2009.09.19 21:01:00 - [79]
 

I thought the POINT was to put a kink in isk farmers operations, not make it so anyone can be war dec'd. Who really wants to war dec a one man corp anyway?

Andra Zeit
Posted - 2009.09.19 21:02:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

- As someone mentioned, the tax is more an encouragement and a nudge towards joining a player corporation than a command. You still have the choice to stay in the NPC corporation and in high sec and mine or run missions.


Why?
If You do not like that players are in NPC Corps and not in Player Corps, there are other ways to built the sandbox as You like it. Much players like the freedom.. no "You must have Team Speak, Corp Mining Every Sunday..., You have to go to Domain". All these players are happy customers of EvE and pay for Your job. And now You want to make them more happy? Is this You want?

Mangold
Mad Bombers
Guns and Alcohol
Posted - 2009.09.19 21:04:00 - [81]
 

finally

OwlManAtt
Gallente
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.09.19 21:06:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
Very cunning
oi, I saw you on TV!

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.19 21:12:00 - [83]
 

Because imagine playing eve without being able to wardec some miners or grief some rookies with your fleet of station camping BS with neutral rep support.

But for some reason ccp shows again they are obsessed with getting people to play the sandbox game the way they want. Since it is obviously better to not be able to talk with many others (yes rookie corps may be filled with spam, but the npc corp i have been in quite alot wasnt), because ccp prefers you in a one man corp.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.09.19 21:13:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Andra Zeit
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

- As someone mentioned, the tax is more an encouragement and a nudge towards joining a player corporation than a command. You still have the choice to stay in the NPC corporation and in high sec and mine or run missions.


Why?
If You do not like that players are in NPC Corps and not in Player Corps, there are other ways to built the sandbox as You like it. Much players like the freedom.. no "You must have Team Speak, Corp Mining Every Sunday..., You have to go to Domain". All these players are happy customers of EvE and pay for Your job. And now You want to make them more happy? Is this You want?


Just pay the 11% then.

Or create a corp with none of the things you dont like about every single player corp in the game, no exceptions there, nosiree, they're all 100 % exactly as you describe Rolling Eyes

MooKids
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.09.19 21:14:00 - [85]
 

Personally, I welcome our new NPC Corp tax overlords.

Seriously, this does have a nice benefit as it is also a way to remove some ISK out of circulation, in a way, slightly curbing inflation.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.19 21:16:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Absolutely nothing. That's pretty much the idea, to make you almost want to create a one-man corp instead of sticking in the NPC ones. That way you CAN be wardecced.

The wardec will be useless against a one-man corp. Dropping from a normal corp takes 24 hours. Disbanding a one-man corp takes 1 second. Then you're free to make another one-man corp which takes 24 hours to wardec. Repeat...

Basically, every time a one-man corp created for tax-avoidance reasons are wardec'ed, this will be the effects:
1. The corp is disbanded.
2. The wardec'er will have wasted 2m(?) on the wardec.
3. The player will create another one-man corp at the cost of 1.6m ISK.
4. He'll play along happily (except for now having NO interaction with other players).
5. The database will contain an entry for another disbanded corp.
6. The number of useful names/tickers for corp will be decreased by one (well, maybe).
7. The usefulness of a players corp listing will be degraded.

Tbh, a change like this is completely useless unless something is changed in wardec's too.

I see little, if any useful effects of this change if it is done standalone....

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.19 21:18:00 - [87]
 

Kerfira, there is one change, only the more experienced players know about that, the newer players will be easier targets

Andra Zeit
Posted - 2009.09.19 21:19:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Andra Zeit on 19/09/2009 21:30:47
Originally by: Malcanis

Just pay the 11% then.


CCP helps nobody with this. Some customers are ****ed off .. thats all.
So.. there is no reason to do this. Only to **** some people on their knees.. not more, not less...

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.19 21:24:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Kerfira, there is one change, only the more experienced players know about that, the newer players will be easier targets

And you really think CCP will not hand-hold the new players on this too? Laughing

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.19 21:26:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Irida Mershkov on 19/09/2009 21:27:56
Edited by: Irida Mershkov on 19/09/2009 21:27:37
Originally by: Andra Zeit
Originally by: Malcanis

Just pay the 11% then.


CCP helps nobody with this. Some customers are ****ed off .. thats all.
So.. there is no reason to do this. Only to **** some people oh their knies.. not more, not less...

On their what?

Edit: CCP have beaten me with the word-filter! damn you Icelan-Terrorists!


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