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Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:06:00 - [811]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Gsptlsnz
Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 24/09/2009 16:37:11
Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: Gsptlsnz

Assuming that every second player in EvE is a scumbag (a conservative assumption), the odds of my being able to stay in a 10-man Corp are 1 in a thousand.


TYpical view tbh, totally wrong ofc. Hundreds of peopletrust each other regularly in eve and very rarely do they actually get screwed over. 90% of eve playersare fairly freindly individuals with no hidden agenda whatsoever. Another 5% won't screw you over because you aren't worth it unless you are either filthy rich or politically powerful. The other 5% are greifers and scammers, the majority of whom are in npc corps.

The main rule of eve is not "trust nobody", it is "make freinds quickly".

My rookie experience does not match this information. Not even close.

You may be correct all the same. But the vast majority of more experienced players I've met have been lowlifes, so I'm gong with "trust no-one".

I'm astonished this isn't seen as a problem TBH. The game is fine, but the players you actually "meet" are relentlessly hostile to rookies. Who are least able to avoid trouble, or defend against it. All the childish nonsense in "local" and forums (like the inane meme about drinking player tears) really give it away. This is the face of EvE to new players who aren't "connected" (able to leverage RL friends or their social skills to get them established painlessly). It really doesn't matter if somewhere out there in the "leet" parts of EvE there are real gamers - the ones I "meet" are mostly trash.


Strange, my corp took on a few nubs barely out of the tutorial so that we had pilots who we could mould into pvp right away and not worry about them being rich but clueless. If we treated every new player like dirt then we would never expand.


What kind of argumentation is that ?

My corp is sending cookies to everyone and we do karaoke singing over ventrillo every night.

Gsptlsnz
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:07:00 - [812]
 

@baltec
You need to look at the the other way round: what proportion of rookies find their way to a decent Corp like yours?

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:12:00 - [813]
 

Originally by: Cyrus Doul
Edited by: Cyrus Doul on 24/09/2009 16:34:19
take any account in NPC corp for over 90 days total, and by total i mean forever. no going 90 days then 2 seconds in alt corp, ninety days. drop into pirate corp and strip ability to be in non pirate npc corp. RTM bots solved either by pirate kill or funtime wardec. if they aren't rtm just find a corp that likes the mission runners ant they can go there. or make their own and try to avoid dec.


Errm, no.


baltec1
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:13:00 - [814]
 

Originally by: Gsptlsnz
@baltec
You need to look at the the other way round: what proportion of rookies find their way to a decent Corp like yours?


I would say most because who is going to stay in a bad corp...It bad business.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:20:00 - [815]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 24/09/2009 17:21:18
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Gsptlsnz
@baltec
You need to look at the the other way round: what proportion of rookies find their way to a decent Corp like yours?


I would say most because who is going to stay in a bad corp...It bad business.


Really now, how hard is it to go to EVE University or Agony and click join? There are several well known and easy to find corps that have an open door policy to new or inexperienced players.

They provide a number of advantages, but I'm not going to pimp them any further.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:23:00 - [816]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Gsptlsnz
@baltec
You need to look at the the other way round: what proportion of rookies find their way to a decent Corp like yours?


I would say most because who is going to stay in a bad corp...It bad business.

....or they quit.....

You may of.c. say that we're better off without them, that they're not suited for EVE, that they should GBTWOW... but that's lost money from the upkeep and expansion of the game we all like!

EVE has and SHOULD have a fair amount of griefing and underhanded stuff, but it should NEVER force newbies out of the game before they actually has a chance to get reasonably settled!

AvaAlt
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:24:00 - [817]
 

PvP costs isk. So pvpers run missions, many of them on alts in NPC corps, to fund pvp. I hate mission running, but if i wanna pew, i need to pay. Pretty straightforward.

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Its not a huge real loss, to be basically immune to danger while you mission in highsec. I dont see an issue here.

I run missions on a toon not in an npc corp, so i am totally unaffected. But thats not because i dont want to, its simply because i cannot afford 2 accounts. If i could, i would happily pay the tax to mission in peace and not have to worry about the sec status of my main.

Pirates and pvpers are supposed to just "accept" low sec status and the problems that accompany it as a consequence of their playstyle. An 11% tax for total wardec immunity is a consequence for those that choose that playstyle.

To those that have brought it up, the 0.0 snorefest is unrelated to the number of people missioning in NPC corps in highsec, and no amount of tax will change that. Apples and oranges, two totally different issues.




baltec1
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:30:00 - [818]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Gsptlsnz
@baltec
You need to look at the the other way round: what proportion of rookies find their way to a decent Corp like yours?


I would say most because who is going to stay in a bad corp...It bad business.

....or they quit.....

You may of.c. say that we're better off without them, that they're not suited for EVE, that they should GBTWOW... but that's lost money from the upkeep and expansion of the game we all like!

EVE has and SHOULD have a fair amount of griefing and underhanded stuff, but it should NEVER force newbies out of the game before they actually has a chance to get reasonably settled!



If they quit over a bad corp then they would have quit over something else far worse.

Bjron
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:35:00 - [819]
 

28 pages about a 11% tax on internet play money.


Really people, its fake money, if this was a 11% tax on real money, then I can see it, but 11% on play money?


O.K, Now I know, its very hard for some of you to do this, but just let me get it out.


If after this tax comes in, a person joins, GUESS WHAT??????!!!!! THEY WONT know about the way it was before taxes!!

WOW, what a concept!!!!
So it will be the same.


OH NOES!!!!!! eleven!!!!!!!!!11111111

MY INTERNET PLAY MONIES!!!!!!!

I remember when I used to have nothing better to woory about then the next buff/nerf or change back in school when I was playing EQ.


ITS A FRICKING GAME!!!

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:38:00 - [820]
 

Originally by: Bjron
28 pages about a 11% tax on internet play money.


Really people, its fake money, if this was a 11% tax on real money, then I can see it, but 11% on play money?


O.K, Now I know, its very hard for some of you to do this, but just let me get it out.


If after this tax comes in, a person joins, GUESS WHAT??????!!!!! THEY WONT know about the way it was before taxes!!

WOW, what a concept!!!!
So it will be the same.


OH NOES!!!!!! eleven!!!!!!!!!11111111

MY INTERNET PLAY MONIES!!!!!!!

I remember when I used to have nothing better to woory about then the next buff/nerf or change back in school when I was playing EQ.


ITS A FRICKING GAME!!!


Originally by: Julian Lynq

Hi,

Thanks for the bump.

You can find multiple answers to your Question inbetween pages 1 and 26 of this thread.

Nihiliax
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:46:00 - [821]
 

Originally by: Bjron
28 pages about a 11% tax on internet play money.


Really people, its fake money, if this was a 11% tax on real money, then I can see it, but 11% on play money?


O.K, Now I know, its very hard for some of you to do this, but just let me get it out.


If after this tax comes in, a person joins, GUESS WHAT??????!!!!! THEY WONT know about the way it was before taxes!!

WOW, what a concept!!!!
So it will be the same.


OH NOES!!!!!! eleven!!!!!!!!!11111111

MY INTERNET PLAY MONIES!!!!!!!

I remember when I used to have nothing better to woory about then the next buff/nerf or change back in school when I was playing EQ.


ITS A FRICKING GAME!!!


OK, you tried to make this point on page 27 but nobody paid it any attention so here you are trying to get attention with the same point a page later. All right Bjron, I'll bite and give you the attention you crave. I'll explain to you what it is that you seem incapable of comprehending. I'll also use small words so you are sure to understand. Ready?

It is not about internet moneys it is about time. I have to grind the occasional level 4 mission (which I don't enjoy) to make ISK to pay for the pew pew against other players (that I do enjoy). As I am a grown up and have limited game time I would rather spend more of my game time doing what I do enjoy and not have to spend 11% extra time doing something I don't enjoy.

Got that?

Good.

Now run along.

bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:46:00 - [822]
 

The funny thing is that probably 50% of the 11% game money tax whiners here havent paid any RL tax from loan yet. I wonder if they will rage the same if the 1st commission comes in and 30-40% will get ripped off by gov.

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:55:00 - [823]
 

Originally by: bitters much
The funny thing is that probably 50% of the 11% game money tax whiners here havent paid any RL tax from loan yet. I wonder if they will rage the same if the 1st commission comes in and 30-40% will get ripped off by gov.


You know the funny thing is that in RL my Corp pays Me. Not the other way around.

Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:59:00 - [824]
 

Originally by: Gsptlsnz
Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 24/09/2009 16:37:11
Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: Gsptlsnz

Assuming that every second player in EvE is a scumbag (a conservative assumption), the odds of my being able to stay in a 10-man Corp are 1 in a thousand.


TYpical view tbh, totally wrong ofc. Hundreds of peopletrust each other regularly in eve and very rarely do they actually get screwed over. 90% of eve playersare fairly freindly individuals with no hidden agenda whatsoever. Another 5% won't screw you over because you aren't worth it unless you are either filthy rich or politically powerful. The other 5% are greifers and scammers, the majority of whom are in npc corps.

The main rule of eve is not "trust nobody", it is "make freinds quickly".

My rookie experience does not match this information. Not even close.

You may be correct all the same. But the vast majority of more experienced players I've met have been lowlifes, so I'm gong with "trust no-one".

I'm astonished this isn't seen as a problem TBH. The game is fine, but the players you actually "meet" are relentlessly hostile to rookies. Who are least able to avoid trouble, or defend against it. All the childish nonsense in "local" and forums (like the inane meme about drinking player tears) really give it away. This is the face of EvE to new players who aren't "connected" (able to leverage RL friends or their social skills to get them established painlessly). It really doesn't matter if somewhere out there in the "leet" parts of EvE there are real gamers - the ones I "meet" are mostly trash.


I'm sorry your rookie experience was bad. And I'm not being facetious.

I *might* be able to help you:

http://www.eve-ivy.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=66&sid=7c7b96cd58f2885e46e5c400d0586c6e

Thats the Recruitment forum of Eve University. While I admit that many pirates do travel through there, I (on my main...) can attest that they are helpful to a degree that I've never seen in any other game (been gaming since online/text based/RPG's - otherwise known as "MUDS").

Think the ingame (open/public) chat channel is "University Public".

When perusing the "Work Fair" Forum, look for neat, well organized posts. Check how often the thread gets bumped. See what other players are saying about the Corp. If there is just one entry (the original one) and nothing else... well, you get the idea.

Not everyone is out to gank/scam/ripyouoff.

Lets put it this way, one of the forum sigs from the Uni is:

"Eve is about groups of bastards, fighting other groups of bastards to see who can be the biggest bastard. And we're running a charity!"

PvP corps/0.0 corps/Mining/Industrialists/Traders/Mission Runnres/Inventors all recruit from the Uni.

But it doesn't really matter... We're all Alts of Kodell...


Bjron
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:00:00 - [825]
 



OK, you tried to make this point on page 27 but nobody paid it any attention so here you are trying to get attention with the same point a page later. All right Bjron, I'll bite and give you the attention you crave. I'll explain to you what it is that you seem incapable of comprehending. I'll also use small words so you are sure to understand. Ready?

It is not about internet moneys it is about time. I have to grind the occasional level 4 mission (which I don't enjoy) to make ISK to pay for the pew pew against other players (that I do enjoy). As I am a grown up and have limited game time I would rather spend more of my game time doing what I do enjoy and not have to spend 11% extra time doing something I don't enjoy.

Got that?

Good.

Now run along.




* facepalm *

I work 8am-5om mon-fri and 3pm-1am on saturday, whats your point?


so, some how, a 11% tax because you are in a NPC corp, is going to make your Eve life sooooo, dull because you have to grind 11% more?

You only have to grind 11% more IF, 100% of your income is the mission reward and bounty, IF you salvage and loot then its a lot less than the 11%, I think some one said it was more like 3-5%?

So, you are going to cry about at the most having to grind 11% more? and in return you are war dec free?

I can not understand this, you can make 20-25M a hour easy, lets say you make 20M in a hour all from rewards and bountys, now we take that 11% out

20-11%=17M earned?
ok, you lost next to nothing in the big picture, 3M BFD.
Pick up some salvage/loot?


you know what, I am 23, I have limited game time, I dont care if they set the NPC corp taxes to 50%

Oh noes, my play internet moneys, ummm buy a few GTC's and sell them?






Bjron
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:05:00 - [826]
 

Originally by: Julian Lynq
Originally by: bitters much
The funny thing is that probably 50% of the 11% game money tax whiners here havent paid any RL tax from loan yet. I wonder if they will rage the same if the 1st commission comes in and 30-40% will get ripped off by gov.


You know the funny thing is that in RL my Corp pays Me. Not the other way around.


this is a game, you choose to play it, dont like it? leave?

I get paid, for working at work, I pay CCP to play in there sand box, hmmm thats not very hard to understand.

Hmm, I get paid to do work, and I pay CCP to keep the servers running.

The funny thing is, that you people are so upset about game money.

I wish I had nothing better to worry about than game money, so what, you *might* have to grind 11% more?

WTF is that even 1 level 4 mission?
no one is forcing you to make your money mission running, and no one is forcing you to stay in the NPC corp.


Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:07:00 - [827]
 

Originally by: Bjron
Originally by: Julian Lynq
Originally by: bitters much
The funny thing is that probably 50% of the 11% game money tax whiners here havent paid any RL tax from loan yet. I wonder if they will rage the same if the 1st commission comes in and 30-40% will get ripped off by gov.


You know the funny thing is that in RL my Corp pays Me. Not the other way around.


this is a game, you choose to play it, dont like it? leave?

I get paid, for working at work, I pay CCP to play in there sand box, hmmm thats not very hard to understand.

Hmm, I get paid to do work, and I pay CCP to keep the servers running.

The funny thing is, that you people are so upset about game money.

I wish I had nothing better to worry about than game money, so what, you *might* have to grind 11% more?

WTF is that even 1 level 4 mission?
no one is forcing you to make your money mission running, and no one is forcing you to stay in the NPC corp.




But, tbqh - Some of us were enjoying the discussion! So its not important to you?

Door ------------> |out|

Thanks for playing!


bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:09:00 - [828]
 

Edited by: bitters much on 24/09/2009 18:14:51

Originally by: Julian Lynq
Originally by: bitters much
The funny thing is that probably 50% of the 11% game money tax whiners here havent paid any RL tax from loan yet. I wonder if they will rage the same if the 1st commission comes in and 30-40% will get ripped off by gov.


You know the funny thing is that in RL my Corp pays Me. Not the other way around.



Sorry but you are wrong, you get paid by the Agent you milk all day long in Motsu, the NPC corp you are in is like your RL Gov., it takes his share for the "Your not deccable" service they provide you.

edit: have to log to take a shower in all the tears I harvested tax free in this thread

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:10:00 - [829]
 

Originally by: Bjron

this is a game



Originally by: bitters much
The funny thing is that probably 50% of the 11% game money tax whiners here havent paid any RL tax from loan yet. I wonder if they will rage the same if the 1st commission comes in and 30-40% will get ripped off by gov.



We have a winner ! pling. pling pling !

You guys should talk more.

Bjron
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:14:00 - [830]
 

Originally by: bitters much
The funny thing is that probably 50% of the 11% game money tax whiners here havent paid any RL tax from loan yet. I wonder if they will rage the same if the 1st commission comes in and 30-40% will get ripped off by gov.


if you are talking about RL loans, I got one for stupidly high rate, yes thats right I am paying massive rate on a loan.

Cause I needed the money really, really bad.

Take out 2,000, pay back 4,000.

Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:18:00 - [831]
 

Originally by: Daemonspirit
http://www.eve-ivy.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=66&sid=7c7b96cd58f2885e46e5c400d0586c6e


Ok, just for Shiz -N- Giggles, I went through some of the Corps on the first page, the most recent posts:

Imperial Navy is recruiting - join the 1st Praetorian Guard (FW - Corp)
http://www.eve-ivy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20620

Qcats - Gallente FW PVP corp now recruiting
http://www.eve-ivy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16776
(These guys seem to have a sense of humor too...)

Reaper Industries - PVP
http://www.eve-ivy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17713
>># No Tax or corporate dues EVER. <<

MBK Brigade
("White hat PvP'rs)
http://www.eve-ivy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21147

Nutz N Boltz is recruiting! Become A NUT today!!
http://www.eve-ivy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8793
"Nutz N Boltz is a relatively laid back corp of PVP'ers, Mission runners, Industrialists, and Miners. We lean a bit more toward the industry and mining aspect of Eve but welcome everyone heck we even have a reformed pirate among us!"
>>>5% tax...
>>>4 pages of bumps since Jan. 09.

[VETOA] - Veto Academy Recruitment
http://www.eve-ivy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20885

WWW.VETO-CORP.COM
http://www.eve-ivy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20885
"A couple of you may have heard of us, chances are that the majority of you haven't. So firstly, introductions all around.

I'm known to most as Verone, and I run a pirate and mercenary corporation by the name of Veto Corp.

I lurk here quite a bit, watching Eve-Uni and how the people who come here develop from the ground up. Ivy League never fails to impress and astonish me with their organisation and how well they prepare and support their students during the start of their time in Eve. "

This is just a few of the corps there, some better, some worse...

Heard of Sniggwaffe?
Sniggwaffe Pirate School
http://www.eve-ivy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18014


There are TONNES of groups out there who are NOT going to scam, grief or touch you in bad places (in game). There is a TONNE of information out there about them...

Just look.

and just for the record? I think the tax is stuipd, silly, annoying and won't accomplish CCP's stated goal. But thats just me...




Bjron
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:27:00 - [832]
 

I want to go on record as say the following.


If I had the kinda power that CCP does to cause this many pages of QQ, and whines and some times good ideas and covos.

The world would already be flooded by now.

Imange what I could do with WoW?

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:27:00 - [833]
 

Little cross post from the other thread, just to make sure it catches eris eyes,
also maybe bringing the topic back to its main question.


Originally by: Julian Lynq
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

We will be keeping a close watch to what happens when this change hits tq Smile


Hi.
How about releasing a public statistic.

One before the change hits TQ, and one after the change. Data would include: Number of players, Number of Players in Player-Corps (Corps > 5 Members), Number of Players in NPC Corps, Number of Players in Player-Corps < 5 Members.

I would be very interested in theese and I believe quite a few other people from this and the two other threads aswell.


Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:28:00 - [834]
 

Originally by: Bjron
I want to go on record as say the following.


If I had the kinda power that CCP does to cause this many pages of QQ, and whines and some times good ideas and covos.

The world would already be flooded by now.

Imange what I could do with WoW?


You, are a very, very, evil person!Twisted Evil

Wanna join my Corp?!ugh


Bjron
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:38:00 - [835]
 

Originally by: Daemonspirit
Originally by: Bjron
I want to go on record as say the following.


If I had the kinda power that CCP does to cause this many pages of QQ, and whines and some times good ideas and covos.

The world would already be flooded by now.

Imange what I could do with WoW?


You, are a very, very, evil person!Twisted Evil

Wanna join my Corp?!ugh




No thank you, but thanks for the offer.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:45:00 - [836]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 24/09/2009 01:48:28
Quote:
The rolleyes emote is an emote. It applies the same on the internet as in rl. In case of PrismX post it underlines him being annoyed and shows everyone else him being arogant.

PrismX used Laughing to indicate humor, as I pointed out. "I" used Rolling Eyes for obvious reasons. Try to pay attention.




Prism X missed the subtle but important difference between "I am laughing at you" and "I am laughing with you".

His post was "I am laughing at you". Not, humour but derision.


My, you are a sensitive lad. Got all that from an obviously non-practical statement and a smiley face did you? Laughing




An the tone of the blog (even if the author wasn't the same person), yes.

The attitude showed by CCP personnel gate on my nerves even if the change don't touch me in any way as I have been in player corp for 3 years.

The "this is the only approved behavior" attitude always grate on my nerves. Approving only one way to play and belittling all the others is a wrong attitude in a game that call to be a sandbox.



Christina Bamar
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:49:00 - [837]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 24/09/2009 17:21:18
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Gsptlsnz
@baltec
You need to look at the the other way round: what proportion of rookies find their way to a decent Corp like yours?


I would say most because who is going to stay in a bad corp...It bad business.


Really now, how hard is it to go to EVE University or Agony and click join? There are several well known and easy to find corps that have an open door policy to new or inexperienced players.

They provide a number of advantages, but I'm not going to pimp them any further.


To clarify, Agony has an open door policy when it comes to the students we take in our classes. When it comes to recruitment into Agony the corp we have a selective recruitment process.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:57:00 - [838]
 

Quote:
You know the funny thing is that in RL my Corp pays Me. Not the other way around.


Sorry, but I have to point out two things.

The point that was made about your earning your money from agents (or whatever), is correct. Your NPC corp is your Government (essentially the guardian of your civil liberties).

That aside though, think about where that money comes from that your Corp pays you in RL. The fact of the matter is, you help earn a lot more money for your RL corp than your RL corp is paying you. Otherwise you would no longer be employed.

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:08:00 - [839]
 

Edited by: Julian Lynq on 24/09/2009 19:08:49
Originally by: Ranger 1
Quote:
You know the funny thing is that in RL my Corp pays Me. Not the other way around.


Sorry, but I have to point out two things.

The point that was made about your earning your money from agents (or whatever), is correct. Your NPC corp is your Government (essentially the guardian of your civil liberties).

That aside though, think about where that money comes from that your Corp pays you in RL. The fact of the matter is, you help earn a lot more money for your RL corp than your RL corp is paying you. Otherwise you would no longer be employed.


The point of that post was to provoke a reaction in pointing out that this is a game and not RL. This has been successull. From here I may refer you to post #831

As you have obviously not read from my other posts yet (I highly recommend the pages 1 to 26) I do not care about the 11% tax, but rather about the way ccp is making "Water Cooler" game design, as someone else called it.

Nihiliax
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:16:00 - [840]
 

Edited by: Nihiliax on 24/09/2009 19:21:15
Originally by: Bjron
I want to go on record as say the following.


If I had the kinda power that CCP does to cause this many pages of QQ, and whines and some times good ideas and covos.

The world would already be flooded by now.

Imange what I could do with WoW?



Awesome post. For a (self-proclaimed) 23 year old your attitudes are very juvenile but I guess that will hopefully change with age.

So far you have proudly proclaimed that despite 28 pages of explanation you still aren't capable of understanding why people object to this change. Not something I would be so proud of to be quite honest. But hey, the quality of your posts shows that you were not one of the "academic achievers" before you recently left school (if you have in fact left school).

You seem to think that being not too clever financially somehow makes you an adult even though your mum still cooks your meals and washes your clothes for you and yet despite all this we are expected to somehow be swayed by your input into this discussion.
Not gonna happen, kiddo.

Your failure to understand the objections being raised here does not invalidate those objections as much as it invalidates your input. Logic dictates that you cannot make a valid input into a discussion that, by your own admission, you do not understand.

Then there's the post I have quoted above. Personally I would say this makes you look closer to 13 than 23 but if you are in fact as old as you claim it merely attests to the fact that your development has been ******ed in some way. If you do not have a constructive input to make to this discussion please refrain from posting your infantile garbage.

Edit: Wow, a profanity filter that blocks the correct use of English. That's a new one on me. I love the way this site allows the kind of trash talk I have quoted above and yet blocks normal English. I only tried to use a word that almost rhymes with discarded.


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