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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.09.21 13:39:00 - [361]
 

My corp tax is 100% so what is this 11% you are complaining about?

Decarus
Amarr
Apostlecorp inc.
Posted - 2009.09.21 14:31:00 - [362]
 

Originally by: Domoso
A tax on an NPC corp? Aside from the obvious motivations for CCP behind this change, I don't really see any benefit for the NPC corp player.


Ain't this the rum of it all? People actually think that being in an NPC corp should benefit players more than being in a Player Run corp.

I don't get how people can maintain that NPC Corps should be tax free. That's like slapping helper wheels on your motorcycle and then expect to be immune from traffic violation fines because you've still got your helper wheels on.

I almost want to bid you people "Welcome to EVE" but it's ridiculous as many of your accounts are older than mine. Laughing

Jack Jombardo
Amarr
Cosmic Allianz
Posted - 2009.09.21 14:40:00 - [363]
 

Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 21/09/2009 14:44:18
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 21/09/2009 14:42:26
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 21/09/2009 14:41:59

The real reason Mission Runner do not want to be in a player corp are Wardecs.

CCP, if you want them in player corps you must give them somethink like "no, I don't want to play war with you".

It is TO easy and TO cheep to declair war.

Declare war must cost a minimum of 1 billion/week peer member of the target corp to declare it! Doubling with each week (2. week = 2 bil/week peer member, 3. week = 4 bil/week peer member and so on).
And if this target corp pays a tax to CONCORD (NOT to the aggressor!) they can declare this hostil action as illigal (ak disable it). This has to be expensive too for sure so they had to decide, if they fight or pay.
Both action MUST hurt the wallet if you want them to PvP.

With this you will bring much MUCH more mission runner into player corps then you will with this stupid tax idear.
And you will get big corps instead of 1 mans as it will be to expensive, to wardec a 100 man corp ;).

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.21 14:49:00 - [364]
 

Edited by: Kerfira on 21/09/2009 14:49:12
Originally by: Decarus
People actually think that being in an NPC corp should benefit players more than being in a Player Run corp.

I don't get how people can maintain that NPC Corps should be tax free.

That is because you are just as tainted by your own situation as the ones on the other side of the fence, and not able to see the other guys point of view.

Some people doesn't want to play EVE to the degree that's required to be successful in player corp (at least not ones worth it), yet CCP has been luring them into the game and invest in it on the basis that 'they could be what they wanted', which DOES include being a non-PvP mission runner in an NPC corp.
Now suddenly the rules change, and these players are suddenly being punished for playing the way CCP told them they could!

Now, beside that point, I think it has been fairly well demonstrated that this will not have any effect on player corp, except that 10000's of 1-man corp will be opened, closed if they get wardec'ed, with a replacement opened 5 seconds later.

CCP are trying a 'lazy' easy solution to a problem they don't even seem to have defined, but as all problems the situation is more complex.
If you want to move players into player corp, you'll have to take ALL OF high-sec earnings, wardec mechanics, corp mechanics, grief tactics, and NPC corp mechanics into account, clearly define your goal, and THEN see where you have to change stuff....
Otherwise it'll just end up as all the other changes where consequences were not properly considered!

Note that I don't mind an NPC corp tax as such, but it can't stand alone because there are so many ways people can avoid it, all of them with negative consequences for that players social interactions in the game....

Try to see beyond yourself, please!

Alternative Character
Posted - 2009.09.21 14:51:00 - [365]
 

Originally by: Jack Jombardo

The real reason Mission Runner do not want to be in a player corp are Wardecs.

CCP, if you want them in player corps you must give them somethink like "no, I don't want to play war with you".

It is TO easy and TO cheep to declair war.



Terrible idea, and i've never been in a corp that has actively sought to declare war for the purpose of profit, and yet I see this as a ridiculous argument.

To be rewarded you should have to take risks, this is what CCP are trying to encourage. It's far to easy to sit in your little npc corp bubble happily making billions with no real reason other than to buy nice shiny things.

What they are trying to encourage is getting people out there, into the REAL game, where you can take real risks, and in return be greatly rewarded. They want people to work together to build links with each other, and to influence the game.

I think most people still in NPC corps after months or even years are scared of loss. If you want to maximise your profit you will need to get over it.

Cassiopeia Draco
Posted - 2009.09.21 14:55:00 - [366]
 

Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 21/09/2009 14:44:18
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 21/09/2009 14:42:26
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 21/09/2009 14:41:59

The real reason Mission Runner do not want to be in a player corp are Wardecs.

CCP, if you want them in player corps you must give them somethink like "no, I don't want to play war with you".

It is TO easy and TO cheep to declair war.

Declare war must cost a minimum of 1 billion/week peer member of the target corp to declare it! Doubling with each week (2. week = 2 bil/week peer member, 3. week = 4 bil/week peer member and so on).
And if this target corp pays a tax to CONCORD (NOT to the aggressor!) they can declare this hostil action as illigal (ak disable it). This has to be expensive too for sure so they had to decide, if they fight or pay.
Both action MUST hurt the wallet if you want them to PvP.

With this you will bring much MUCH more mission runner into player corps then you will with this stupid tax idear.
And you will get big corps instead of 1 mans as it will be to expensive, to wardec a 100 man corp ;).


Way to go about totally killing the wardec system, can i have whatever you're smoking or drinking. Rolling Eyes

1 bil/week is too much, although i agree that current wardec fees are too low, and should be increased, maybe 20mil for a corp, 100mil per alliance.

The Chances of getting having a war declared are small, of the last 4 corps I've been in, they've been wardecced 3 times, once because the alliance was decced, once because a noob smacktalked the wrong person, and once because another industrial corp wanted us of that region when we started to undercut them.

Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
Posted - 2009.09.21 14:59:00 - [367]
 

Someone help me! ;;;;;

I might have to fight an enemy which does more than slowly walk into my weapons like an ISK pinata, interact with other people, AND I MIGHT LOSE A PIXEL SPACESHIP!

Seriously, if I ever lost a ship I'd probably cry myself to sleep and quit the game.

I am a casual player, and as such am incapable of enjoying anything aside from watching my pixel money go up so that I can buy better items to make more pixel money with. Sure, you may say I have all my eggs in one basket, and that I don't need a three billion isk mission ship.

Well, it's just my playstyle; I only need one ship because I'll never lose it. ^^

--------------

Everyone has a choice in what game they play. I chose the one labeled 'dark' and 'harsh' because it makes me seem cool.. but have you seen it out there? It's scary to leave the newbie areas! Until CCP lets me turn off my pvp flag I'll just have to settle for pretending I'm a super awesome pirate hunter on these NPCs. I really kill lots of pirates, too!~

Tuscanspeed
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.21 15:00:00 - [368]
 

Originally by: Alternative Character
I think most people still in NPC corps after months or even years are scared of loss. If you want to maximise your profit you will need to get over it.



And then some of us just want to play and not be bothered by the patheticness that is a player run corp.

I have no desire to join a player corp. This change won't change that.

I could care less about the ISK loss. I'd like to see the tithe actually do something if you want to spin it as paying Concord, since Concord cannot protect me even in highsec.

Spin it how you will CCP. The change is stupid. And won't solve the non problem you perceive as a problem. If it's botting you want to cut down on, there are far better solutions.

Atrei Capital
Posted - 2009.09.21 15:13:00 - [369]
 

Originally by: Tuscanspeed
Originally by: Alternative Character
I think most people still in NPC corps after months or even years are scared of loss. If you want to maximise your profit you will need to get over it.



And then some of us just want to play and not be bothered by the patheticness that is a player run corp.

I have no desire to join a player corp. This change won't change that.

I could care less about the ISK loss. I'd like to see the tithe actually do something if you want to spin it as paying Concord, since Concord cannot protect me even in highsec.

Spin it how you will CCP. The change is stupid. And won't solve the non problem you perceive as a problem. If it's botting you want to cut down on, there are far better solutions.



Preach brother! How dare they make you play with other people in an online game!

Avalon Champion
Black Thorne Corporation
Posted - 2009.09.21 15:18:00 - [370]
 

Edited by: Avalon Champion on 21/09/2009 15:18:37
Originally by: Tuscanspeed
Originally by: Alternative Character
I think most people still in NPC corps after months or even years are scared of loss. If you want to maximise your profit you will need to get over it.



And then some of us just want to play and not be bothered by the patheticness that is a player run corp.

I have no desire to join a player corp. This change won't change that.

I could care less about the ISK loss. I'd like to see the tithe actually do something if you want to spin it as paying Concord, since Concord cannot protect me even in highsec.

Spin it how you will CCP. The change is stupid. And won't solve the non problem you perceive as a problem. If it's botting you want to cut down on, there are far better solutions.



Have you ever been in a player corp? If not how can you comment on them being pathetic or otherwise.

If you have then they must have been a bad corp.

Edit : grammer and spelling

Altie McName
Posted - 2009.09.21 15:22:00 - [371]
 

Originally by: Tuscanspeed
Originally by: Alternative Character
I think most people still in NPC corps after months or even years are scared of loss. If you want to maximise your profit you will need to get over it.



And then some of us just want to play and not be bothered by the patheticness that is a player run corp.

I have no desire to join a player corp. This change won't change that.

I could care less about the ISK loss. I'd like to see the tithe actually do something if you want to spin it as paying Concord, since Concord cannot protect me even in highsec.

Spin it how you will CCP. The change is stupid. And won't solve the non problem you perceive as a problem. If it's botting you want to cut down on, there are far better solutions.


Not every authority figure can be there to protect everyone. Where are the cops when someone does a drive by? Do cops magically appear when someone wandered into a .5 neighborhood, fell in a ditch and then got ganked by random pirates? Suicide gankers will always have a chance of taking you out, just like you have the unfortunate chance of being the unlucky person getting shot on the street or in a store robbery. Difference is, this is a game, it also has "Role Playing" sides to it as well, yeah some people like to pretend instead of shooting other ships, thus saying this goes to pay Concord. Learn to accept different points of views for game changes if you are going to accept some aspects of this fictional fantasy universe but deny the others Wink

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.21 15:23:00 - [372]
 

Originally by: Atrei Capital
Originally by: Tuscanspeed
Originally by: Alternative Character
I think most people still in NPC corps after months or even years are scared of loss. If you want to maximise your profit you will need to get over it.



And then some of us just want to play and not be bothered by the patheticness that is a player run corp.

I have no desire to join a player corp. This change won't change that.

I could care less about the ISK loss. I'd like to see the tithe actually do something if you want to spin it as paying Concord, since Concord cannot protect me even in highsec.

Spin it how you will CCP. The change is stupid. And won't solve the non problem you perceive as a problem. If it's botting you want to cut down on, there are far better solutions.



Preach brother! How dare they make you play with other people in an online game!


There are other mechanics to play with other people in an online game besides engading them in combat or listen to their stories on teamspeak that they tell everyone because they have no friends in real life that they can tell anything.
Playing with people in an online game doesn´t have to be a direct form of interaction.

Besides that people do not have an alternative to eve online.
If there were an offline version i am sure quite a few people would actually prefer that.

Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
Posted - 2009.09.21 15:26:00 - [373]
 

These threads are brewing up a fair amount of bitterness on either side which I think may spill over into the game itself at any minute.

Calling player corps pathetic when you say you've never been a member of one isn't going to endear you to any of them so I think you just shot yourself in the foot now.

Can anyone else feel a storm brewing

Heroldyn
Posted - 2009.09.21 16:07:00 - [374]
 

i have been in a nullsec based corp/ally almost since the day i started playing EVE.

that was up until about a year and a half ago when i went back to empire.

i can see why people enjoy being in player corporations but i can also see why they don't.
especially thoose players with restricted free time.

i won't stay in my current npc corporation for the rest of my EVE life, but really an increase in
tax is not gonna be the trigger.


i want to add that everyone who posted in this topic should meet up together at some
family therapist or something. why does this forum not allow for an objective un-emotionized friendly discussion on the matter?

Gideon Kross
Caldari
Kross Industries Ltd
Posted - 2009.09.21 16:28:00 - [375]
 

This isn't that big of a deal, people.

Move along... Nothing Game Breaking To See Here...

Rolling Eyes

Macon Squaredealer
Squaredeal Enterprises
Posted - 2009.09.21 16:29:00 - [376]
 

Originally by: Heroldyn
i won't stay in my current npc corporation for the rest of my EVE life, but really an increase in
tax is not gonna be the trigger.


Of course it won't. Anyone who thinks that the solo carebears are going to dash off and join player corps in order to avoid having to pay an 11% tax now is an idiot. A few will set up a corp which they will disband the second they get dec'd, but that's only a make believe corp in order to avoid the tax.

This is NOTHING more than a tax on isk sellers farming and hiding in the NPC corp's - and folks, that's a good thing.

Lisa Amber
WEPRA CORP
Posted - 2009.09.21 16:30:00 - [377]
 

Reading here I feel that a lot of opinions are based on the assumption that being in a player corp implies lots of hard work, ungrateful duty, and basicaly changing your play-style in order to obey orders of a greedy CEO or whatever. Who the hell is spreading stories like that? Sure there are some hardcore corps requiring such a commitment but from my experience it's far form majority (think of the hundreads of small empire corps there)

Heroldyn
Posted - 2009.09.21 16:35:00 - [378]
 

Originally by: Macon Squaredealer
Originally by: Heroldyn
i won't stay in my current npc corporation for the rest of my EVE life, but really an increase in
tax is not gonna be the trigger.


Of course it won't. Anyone who thinks that the solo carebears are going to dash off and join player corps in order to avoid having to pay an 11% tax now is an idiot. A few will set up a corp which they will disband the second they get dec'd, but that's only a make believe corp in order to avoid the tax.

This is NOTHING more than a tax on isk sellers farming and hiding in the NPC corp's - and folks, that's a good thing.


i don't believe that is the case. isk sellers farm through mining, and mining is not affected by the tax.

also i believe ccp has communicated allready that this is about trying to get players out of npc corporations.

Michwich
Posted - 2009.09.21 16:41:00 - [379]
 

CCP arent trying to encourage anything, they're stealing our isk plain and simple.

Gideon Kross
Caldari
Kross Industries Ltd
Posted - 2009.09.21 16:47:00 - [380]
 

Originally by: Michwich
CCP arent trying to encourage anything, they're stealing our isk plain and simple.


It's not being "Stolen" in excessive amounts... Relax, already.


Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
Posted - 2009.09.21 16:54:00 - [381]
 

Originally by: Lisa Amber
Reading here I feel that a lot of opinions are based on the assumption that being in a player corp implies lots of hard work, ungrateful duty, and basicaly changing your play-style in order to obey orders of a greedy CEO or whatever. Who the hell is spreading stories like that? Sure there are some hardcore corps requiring such a commitment but from my experience it's far form majority (think of the hundreads of small empire corps there)


My friends and I left our previous corp as we didn't share the 'big vision' the CEO was putting forward, so now we have our own corp which doesn't place any major constraints on it's members, we have a small tax that lets the corp wallet grow a little week by week and we have fun, able to make our own plans.

I originally made the corp for my industrial alt, so he could join a research alliance that recently disbanded, but when we left the first corp it seemed an obvious choice to just pile into our own and do as we pleased til we figured out other things we could do.

And if you feel like your isk is being stolen..you have a choice, we all make choices in EVE!

Bjron
Posted - 2009.09.21 17:07:00 - [382]
 

ITT, people here take play money and pixel space ships way to serious for me.


I am in a Player corp, we do ops every weekend, and I am not even rquired to attend, the rest of the time, its spur of the moment.
Want to run some missions? great go ahead, solo or if some one want to join, make a a corp thing.
Want to mine? Great, you can, need a hualer, just ask in corp.

I had the most fun, I have had playing ever yesterday on a Mining op, in my retriver and later hualing.
Talking to corp mates and, trying to get the most out of my little retriver as I could, and later trying to hual in my itty.

I even got a Flashy red, a salvager, tired to kill him but he ran and hid in a station untill the time ran out.
Good times.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.21 17:17:00 - [383]
 

Originally by: Michwich
CCP arent trying to encourage anything, they're kind enough to give you any isk at all to play with, plain and simple.
Fix'd. It's not your ISK, you know… Wink

Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
Posted - 2009.09.21 17:22:00 - [384]
 

I'm diagnosing a bloated sense of entitlement, there is no cure

baltec1
Posted - 2009.09.21 17:24:00 - [385]
 

Originally by: Michwich
CCP arent trying to encourage anything, they're stealing our isk plain and simple.


Start up your own corp then?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.21 17:27:00 - [386]
 

Originally by: Serge Bastana
I'm diagnosing a bloated sense of entitlement, there is no cure
As if the "salvage theft" whines misconceptions hadn't been enough of a clue… Neutral

Uronksur Suth
Posted - 2009.09.21 17:33:00 - [387]
 

Originally by: Michwich
CCP arent trying to encourage anything, they're stealing our isk plain and simple.



LaughingLaughing haha lol. You make it sound like they need to, as if they can't all just generate as much ISK into their wallets on a whim if they were so inclined.LaughingLaughing

And I'm confused by the constant whining about war decs, as if non-consensual PvP wasn't a part of EVE. Seriously, they whine on and on like War Decs are something that happen to player corps DAILY. Even the assumption that it would be the end of their easy ISK existence is unwarranted.

Rellik B00n
Posted - 2009.09.21 17:38:00 - [388]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
OK how about this, if they dont want to PvP, then can leave the corp and immediately be safe. However they cant mine, convert LP, buy or sell anything on the market or create public contracts. Which should be fine, because they dont WANT to PvP, right? And all of those things are PvP.

Or maybe they actually want to PvP; PvP my wallet, PvP my mineral resources, PvP my market alt, PvP my industry margins, PvP my invention profits, but gain free no-consequence immunity from PvPing my ship. It's fine for a big established industrialist to grief my little ammo building operation, but it's not fine for me to shoot his supply hauler? He gets to be immune to my PvP, but I dont get to be immune to his?


quoting this for the people that are trying to carry on an argument as though this statement doesnt exist.

PostWithYourAlt
Posted - 2009.09.21 17:39:00 - [389]
 

CCP came up with a solution to a non identified problem that naturally does not solve it.

Instead of trying to "fix" the symptom (people are in npc corps) CCP should identify the disease (why are people not in player corps?)

I hope they dont expand on this kind of half-serious game design.

K'uata Sayus
Posted - 2009.09.21 17:47:00 - [390]
 

All you NPC corp lone wolves need to form your own one-player corps with your alts and problem is solved. Unless you're a real d***head, you'll never get wardecced.

If you're afraid of this, then stay in the NPC corp and pay your friggin' dues, man.

I can imagine thousands of new small corporations springing up like mushrooms after a rain. Being part of your own corp has a lot of advantages, doesn't cost much and leaving the nest is something all alleged adults strive to do. (mild apologies to all of you living in your parent's basements, you probably have good reasons, no?)






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