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Flex Nebura
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.21 02:02:00 - [241]
 

Edited by: Flex Nebura on 21/09/2009 02:04:46
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

And how do you deal with this?


1) Have 1 man corp alt accepting missions.
2) NPC corp missioneer does the job
3) 1 man corp alt takes the rewards with 0% tax.



That just gets around the mission reward. NPC corp missioner would still have to pay taxes on the bounties.
Also I assume you plan to keep the 1 man corp alt safely docked but I dont think he will get the mission completed update needed to finish the mission while in station.


and Im sure the tax is being introduced to curb some of the low risk isk being made in high sec.
Some mentioned that traders wont get hit by this. but they often take a higher risk either when moving high value goods or when making a bad bet on the market. also they lose some isk to transaction taxes

Those that want to keep every last isk for them selves will either have to join a corp with 0 tax or make one of their own and see if they can offer safety from war decs and griefing at a lower cost or with better success than the NPC corp. As far as war decs go the NPC corp always wins. but that never stopped people from flipping your cans or suicide bombimg you.

I know most wont leave the npc corp. Doesnt really matter all that much, but now they wont have an earning advantage over those that actually play the MMO part of the game.

And it cant be said enough:
You wont even notice the money missing

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.09.21 02:26:00 - [242]
 

Originally by: Flex Nebura
You wont even notice the money missing


TBQHFH if ur wont notice money isksing why do u ***** about em not having advantage u know// its like lol u not notice but i ***** antwywa

Matting
Capital Storm.
Reverberation Project
Posted - 2009.09.21 02:35:00 - [243]
 

Personally I always found it weird the NPC corps did not have any tax for the protection they give. Also as others mentioned the tax is only on a small subset of what what people make money on.

Also to the paranoid players out there scared of wars... ITS NOT THAT BAD.

When you hear about a care bear corp getting wardecced its because of their size, 20+ with good ships generally OR because of something someone in that corp did to **** someone off.

I've got alts in 1-5 person corps and have never had any issue with war decs on them, They don't cause trouble and are small so no one would bother deccing them for the off chance one would even be logged in when they are hunting. Most empire war deccers want kills not boredom and as such will pick targets who are big enough to catch one unsuspectingly or who they think will try and fight.

Corps only have 3 war dec slots and using them on small would be NPC players it not worth the time or isk, time being the big one.

TL;DR

It won't make any difference for most and for mission runners it will only cut a VERY small amount of isk from your income which is well worth the protection from wars / being social.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.21 06:43:00 - [244]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 21/09/2009 06:43:50
It is one of those moves by CCP where the (supposed) goal seem totally disjointed by the mean and the mean will not get the goal.

Possible goal:
- reducing missions and ratting isk injection (it will not touch any other isk making activity);

Result:
- fail, all the "professional" mission runners will start a 1 player with alt corp

Possible goal:
- increase interaction between players;

Result:
- fail, ilt will reduce interaction as people will move to 1 player corps;

Possible goal:
- increase vulnerability to wardec;

Result:
- fail, people will disband corp and create a new one, a 1 player mission running corp has no POS to siege, no activity to protect. And it is against one of CCP stated goals, the possibility for a character to avoid to be involved in wars.

If the goal is to reduce isk injection in game it would have been simpler to reduce mission/ratting isk rewards.

This way CCP instead simply punish the new players that will need to create 1 man corps when they are not ready for that.

I am curious to see what will be in the Dev blog explaining the move, but I fail to see any reasonable goal for the change.

Lag Generator
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.09.21 07:04:00 - [245]
 

That is great.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.21 07:29:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
It is one of those moves by CCP where the (supposed) goal seem totally disjointed by the mean and the mean will not get the goal......

I was going to write the exact same thing this morning, with exactly the same possible goals and why it wouldn't work.... Laughing
Originally by: Venkul Mul
This way CCP instead simply punish the new players that will need to create 1 man corps when they are not ready for that.

Not only that! That noob player will lose whatever social interaction he has in the game, and is thus much LESS likely to ever join up with other players when he is ready, simply because he doesn't have a place to meet other people....

It's somewhat the same as when learning skills were harder to do. A lot of well-meaning (but wrong) older players advised new players that they HAD to spend the first 1-2 months training the learning skills. They then started doing so but saw no progression in their play and quit.
Here, the same well-meaning (but still wrong) older players will advise the new player to create a 1-man corp as soon as possible so he can earn more ISK, but not consider that it'll destroy any social interaction he'll have in the game.

CCP should define to us what the problem is they're trying to solve, and THEN we could tell them a way to do so that would actually solve it without all the negative consequences.

Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
Posted - 2009.09.21 08:21:00 - [247]
 

Edited by: Veldya on 21/09/2009 08:23:03
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Venkul Mul
It is one of those moves by CCP where the (supposed) goal seem totally disjointed by the mean and the mean will not get the goal......

I was going to write the exact same thing this morning, with exactly the same possible goals and why it wouldn't work.... Laughing
Originally by: Venkul Mul
This way CCP instead simply punish the new players that will need to create 1 man corps when they are not ready for that.

Not only that! That noob player will lose whatever social interaction he has in the game, and is thus much LESS likely to ever join up with other players when he is ready, simply because he doesn't have a place to meet other people....

It's somewhat the same as when learning skills were harder to do. A lot of well-meaning (but wrong) older players advised new players that they HAD to spend the first 1-2 months training the learning skills. They then started doing so but saw no progression in their play and quit.
Here, the same well-meaning (but still wrong) older players will advise the new player to create a 1-man corp as soon as possible so he can earn more ISK, but not consider that it'll destroy any social interaction he'll have in the game.

CCP should define to us what the problem is they're trying to solve, and THEN we could tell them a way to do so that would actually solve it without all the negative consequences.



I don't think it has anything to do with the isk, CCP has had ample opportunity to create all sorts of money sinks but chose not to.

I think the problem is Empire corps struggle to get any meaningful membership, for good reason, as soon as they grow to a certain size they are just easy targets for degenerates who "should" be in low-sec if it wasn't a complete design failure.

When you grow an Empire corp to 40 or 50 people, establish POS, etc it is not so easy dumping them for shelf corp. It becomes more of a hassle, you have players some who may be away/inactive who effectively get cut-off.

They could hurt these people if they made it more difficult to move around, more difficult to create corps, etc but that would just be pandering to the degenerates, who are largely clueless, incompetent and cowardly.

If Empire became a free for all they would be the first to vanish, much like they vanished from conquerable space. This change excites them not because they feel it is a good change, but feel it will make it easier for them to get cheap kills. Most of them are 0.0 rejects who have been kicked out of space more times than most of us can remember.

Wardec is the gutless mechanic that needs overhaul. There needs to be greater consequence to waging war in Empire. That is not to protect the Empire denizens, but it is to make many facets of the game more meaningful.

If you wardec a corp or alliance, you should not be able to dock when there are members of the corp/alliance you decelare war on in system. People don't fear the pirates, they just don't want to play your stupid station docking games or hide whenever anything but a hauler comes looking for you.

If you declare war there should be some kind of emphasis on actually waging war. If you fail to do so your reputation with concord should decline with each failed war until Concord, as an npc organisation, realises you are as useless as the players know and ignore your desire for no-consequences hauler action.

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.21 09:12:00 - [248]
 

Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 21/09/2009 09:12:38
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 21/09/2009 06:43:50
It is one of those moves by CCP where the (supposed) goal seem totally disjointed by the mean and the mean will not get the goal.


All of the 'this won't work the farmers will just make 1-man corps GOD CCP IS SO STUUUUUUPID' complaints can be easily solved if, as suggested in this thread, the cost of corp creation is raised to the point where its no longer so trivial to keep making them and jumping around at a moment's notice. I just checked in-game and the startup fee was 1599800 ISK, so throw a couple more zeros on the end of that and we're in business. Hey, maybe that's CCPs intention already, until we have the full details rather than just one snippet of information picked up from the test server its too early to say whether it will work and what the options will be.

(Did anyone check the startup fee on Sisi to see if they've been altered too?)

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2009.09.21 09:27:00 - [249]
 

It is an utterly useless change that will antagonize people more than anything. Short sighted game design for the win!
At least you didn't crank it to where people will just bugger off to the next big thing, so you obviously have common sense - just need to apply it.

Make being a player corporation matter, make them desirable to join. You are improving alliance level management, do the same for corporations.

2 minutes (literally) of brain storming yielded these for me:
- Add a skill to increase LP/ISK reward by 1%/level for CEOs to train if they want.
- Give corporations a discount on "public" S&I jobs.
- Limited inter-office transport of goods.

If you really want players to join non-NPC corps then make it worthwhile in a meaningful way.

Rick Rothsar
Ghosts of Ragnarok
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.09.21 10:26:00 - [250]
 

Originally by: Julian Lynq
yes sure best change... why not make wardecs free also ? so all of you super leet people can declare war on the new 1 man corps?and raise tax to 100%. also great of ccp not having the balls to put it in change notes-no wait make it 120% so people acutally loose money and make wardecs give the deccing corp 1b isk instead of costing money.


These tears, best tears.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.21 10:51:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Make being a player corporation matter, make them desirable to join. You are improving alliance level management, do the same for corporations.

2 minutes (literally) of brain storming yielded these for me:
- Add a skill to increase LP/ISK reward by 1%/level for CEOs to train if they want.
- Give corporations a discount on "public" S&I jobs.
- Limited inter-office transport of goods.

If you really want players to join non-NPC corps then make it worthwhile in a meaningful way.

And each of those would also be valid for a 1-man corp.... Your 1st one would just be equivalent to another learning skill.....

So... Same gain, just less social interaction....

If the aim is to make people who're in NPC corp because they don't like PvP WANT to go into player corp, it'll HAVE to include (severe!) restrictions on wardec's and war consequences. Otherwise it'll have no effect whatever...
Note that I'm not advocating that, just saying that that's what it'll take!

Analyse why people don't want to be in player corp, and it'll come down to:
1. Don't want PvP
2. Don't like to have obligations in a game
3. Been scammed in player corp before
4. Had noob player corp wardec'd into nothing by uber-leet PvP'ers
etc. etc. etc.
Corp tax is WAY down the list (if even on it at all)!

If the NPC corp members attitude to player corp is to change, then the REASONS for that attitude needs to be adressed, not something as unimportant as a minuscule corp tax.

There's also the fact that there is usually MUCH less social interaction in player corp than in NPC corp for a casual player. There are usually 400-1000 other people to chat to, new people coming along all the time, people you've known since you started EVE etc.
Unless you join a big player corp (and fat chance of them accepting you if you're a casual player), that'll not happen in a player corp.

The uber-leet PvP'ers will of.c. say GB2WOW etc., but that'd be a REALLY stupid attitude from an MMO company who's actively marketed this game not only to the uber-crowd, but also the the casual gamers who's been enticed by promises that they can do what they want to do in EVE!

StainLessStealRat
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.09.21 10:53:00 - [252]
 

Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 11:00:47
Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 10:53:49
Originally by: Julian Lynq
**** them off ya

cant see how it would help anyone however.


people will just stay in npc corps and have 11%less income. i think its a bad change.


Thread not going the way you hoped i see.Smile

Welcome to EvE YARRRR!!
All those NPCers that have been in a NPC corp since day 1 will now have to play the real eve with the rest of us.

Make it 20% i say,
As this is higher than the highest (15%) that is a reasonable corp tax rate IMHO.

This will bee a well needed boost to the allways over looked Empire war dec corps out there who have faces nerf after nerf in the process of making eve more noob friendly.

Good times ahead for the likes of lotto repo ect if 0.0 turns too **** after the patch at least we have a back up Very Happy

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.21 10:59:00 - [253]
 

Originally by: StainLessStealRat
Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 10:53:49
Originally by: Julian Lynq
**** them off ya

cant see how it would help anyone however.


people will just stay in npc corps and have 11% less income. i think its a bad change.


Thread not going the way you hoped i see.Smile

Welcome to EvE YARRRR!!
All those NPCers that have been in a NPC corp since day 1 will now have to play the real eve with the rest of us.

make it 20% i say is this is higher than the largest (15%) that is the highest reasonable corp tax rat IMHO.

P.S any AUS War dec corps out there PM me Wink



I donīt know where you see the thread going, but appareantly its different from my recognition. Most ppl here agree that the planned change is bad and doesn't achieve the stated goal and only make things worse.

StainLessStealRat
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.09.21 11:46:00 - [254]
 

Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 11:58:54
Must be reading a differant thread buddy.

I see all the empire corps going "Oh no 200 man corps will war dec us 15 people who have the right to not play in the sandbox with you."

WTF would we?
0.0 corps are still the best targets unless you move 10's of billoin in isk a week ?

And i see mostly sane PvPer and non PvPers sating that a sandbox is a game about interaction a virtual society,NPC corps are the anti christ too this concept.

Most player corps are awsome,I have loved all but one of the one's i have been in.
You guys will start using voice coms more as a result(This is what brought Eve to a whole new level for me)
Just wait till your new mission running corp has found its feet,You will be working as a team knocking over missions like no tomorrow.

Then one day one of the baraver among you will suggest a worm hole.
90% of you will think its a bad idea but go along anyway.
85% of you will love it and you have progressed more than you ever would have alone.
But also there will be a day one of your corpsmates may throw out the enevitable "Smack" in local due too his now increased epeen and your will recive a war dec.
Now with your new found team Work you will.
a,Fight back, Work as a team but still fail(hell its PvP not an IT degree)
b,Evade the attackers go to another area of eve (providance)Wink
c,Fight back fail on the whole but get a few kills.

But the thing to learn is you will benefit from this (if you go with it)
Also that you will be accountable for smack talk and you will find this is emersion that CCP is and should be looking for.

Kagan Kashgar
Posted - 2009.09.21 11:53:00 - [255]
 

Still, empires need income, any and all who dabble in revenue in Empire sovereign space should be taxed.

voxen
Trans-Solar Works
Posted - 2009.09.21 11:55:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: StainLessStealRat
Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 11:00:47
Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 10:53:49
Originally by: Julian Lynq
**** them off ya

cant see how it would help anyone however.


people will just stay in npc corps and have 11%less income. i think its a bad change.


Thread not going the way you hoped i see.Smile

Welcome to EvE YARRRR!!
All those NPCers that have been in a NPC corp since day 1 will now have to play the real eve with the rest of us.

Make it 20% i say,
As this is higher than the highest (15%) that is a reasonable corp tax rate IMHO.

This will bee a well needed boost to the allways over looked Empire war dec corps out there who have faces nerf after nerf in the process of making eve more noob friendly.

Good times ahead for the likes of lotto repo ect if 0.0 turns too **** after the patch at least we have a back up Very Happy


what you call the 'real eve' is just your perception of the game and conflicts with the core of eve being a sandbox (i.e. you create your own destiny). Changes like these hurt the sandbox principle because it pushes players in a certain direction and therefore should be applied as little as possible imo.

(oh, and it's not that hard to avoid this tax and still be invulnerable to wardecs btw but that's not the point here)

Julian Lynq
Posted - 2009.09.21 12:04:00 - [257]
 

Originally by: StainLessStealRat
Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 11:52:42
Must be reading a differant thread buddy.

I see all the empire corps going "Oh no 200 man corps will war dec us 15 people who have the right to not play in the sandbox with you."

WTF would we?
0.0 corps are still the best targets unless you move 10's of billoin in isk a week ?

And mostly sane PvPer and non PvPers saying a sandbox is a game about interaction,a virtual society and NPC corps are the anti christ too this concept.

Most player corps are awsome i have loved all but one of the one's i have been in.You guys will start using voice coms more as a result,This is what brought Eve to a whole new level for me.wait till your new mission running corp has found its feet you will be working as a team knocking over missions like no tomorrow.
Then one day one of the baraver among you will suggest a worm hole 90% of you will think its a bad idea but go along anyway.
85% of you will love it and you have progressed more than you ever would alone.

One day one of your corpsmates may throw out the enevitable "Smack" due too his now increased epeen and you will cop a war dec.
Now with your new found team Work you will.
a,Fight back, Work as a team but still fail(hell its PvP not an IT degree)
b,Evade the attackers go to another area of eve (providance)Wink

But the thing to learn you will benefit from this if you go with it.
Also that you will be accountable for smack talk and you will find this is emersion that CCP is and should be looking for.



You must indeed be reading a different thread.

I see all the npc corp people try to explain to the fail pvpīers, how this change will not make them leave npc corps and i see the sane people arguing rightfully that the change will not have the effect ccp anticipates.

In great detail does this thread hold valueable information about the reasons people are in npc corporations and the reasons why other people are in player corporations.

The mostly in-sane fail pvp'ers however dont really manage to argue why the change would indeed work in their oppinion. Instead all they do is bump it with certainly uninformed and meaningless sentences like "love it, make it 50% instead".

In my oppinion we see 3 groups of people here that are infavour of the change:

group 1:
Unhappy people from player corps that wanīt "revenge", because other people manage to enjoy the game where they donīt.

group 2:
fail pvpīers that really think after this change the carebaers will just sit in space in their faction ships waiting to be killed by them.

group 3:
general trolls


As mentioned above the people against the change have in great detail outlined why it will not work as anticipated. So then i dare you: bring it. Tell us why you believe the change will work besides theese arguments.


Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2009.09.21 12:05:00 - [258]
 

Edited by: Kerfira on 21/09/2009 12:05:43
Originally by: StainLessStealRat
Post #254

Unfortunately, the game you're talking about is not the game CCP has been selling EVE as!

EVE has DELIBERATELY by CCP been sold as a game where "You can do what you want!", which includes not doing what you don't want!

As a result, that is what a large part of the player base is buying! The players who play maybe a couple of hours every week when they're bored will NOT be invited into player corp. The player who just likes to mission will NOT be either, etc. etc.

All these players will just see one thing, that EVE isn't what was promised them, and that they're being punished for not wanting to play EVE in the 'right' way!

You approach the case from the point of the dedicated and frequent EVE player, but completely disregard that a large number of players (and thus subscriptions) are not like that!

If player corp are unattractive to NPC corp members, instead of just applying an easily avoided thing like a corp tax, CCP should analyse WHY players don't like player corp, and then do something about THOSE reasons.
As has been said, it is a 'lazy' solution that is actually not a solution at all.... That people are in NPC corp is a symptom, not the cause. Trying to make the symptom go away will not lessen the illness...

Note that I'm not one of the above type of players, but that doesn't mean I can't see their point of view. I can also see that the income from that large player group contributes a lot to CCP's income, and thus help make the EVE game I like even better!

Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
Posted - 2009.09.21 12:06:00 - [259]
 

Edited by: Serge Bastana on 21/09/2009 12:10:28
Edited by: Serge Bastana on 21/09/2009 12:08:42
Originally by: voxen


(oh, and it's not that hard to avoid this tax and still be invulnerable to wardecs btw but that's not the point here)


Well in a way it is the point, if ppl are confident that they can evade both the tax and wardecs why don't they just get on and do it and let everybody else do what they want.

Now if you're standing up for others in your NPC corp, why not team up with them and create a corp. If you don't care about them, just take care of yourself and leave them to it.

I can understand it's a bit of a shock for some ppl in NPC corps but that's partially due to the fact that they believe that every isk they earn will be taxed as they have never learned about how corp taxes work.

I've only just passed my first 6 months in the game, but having taken that step into a player corp within my first few weeks into the game I have learned quite a lot from those more experienced than myself and from my own experiences while being a member of a player corp.

Loadsa fun. I admit not all corps are to your taste, that happens, but we decided to set out and form our own for some freedom and give us a chance to figure out more things in EVE and let us work out what we really wanted to do, so for now we're just messing around, having some fun and seeing what happens.

StainLessStealRat
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.09.21 12:10:00 - [260]
 

Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 12:21:28
Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 12:16:33
Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 12:12:54

Originally by: voxen
Originally by: StainLessStealRat
Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 11:00:47
Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 10:53:49
Originally by: Julian Lynq
**** them off ya

cant see how it would help anyone however.


people will just stay in npc corps and have 11%less income. i think its a bad change.


Thread not going the way you hoped i see.Smile

Welcome to EvE YARRRR!!
All those NPCers that have been in a NPC corp since day 1 will now have to play the real eve with the rest of us.

Make it 20% i say,
As this is higher than the highest (15%) that is a reasonable corp tax rate IMHO.

This will bee a well needed boost to the allways over looked Empire war dec corps out there who have faces nerf after nerf in the process of making eve more noob friendly.

Good times ahead for the likes of lotto repo ect if 0.0 turns too **** after the patch at least we have a back up Very Happy


what you call the 'real eve' is just your perception of the game and conflicts with the core of eve being a sandbox (i.e. you create your own destiny). Changes like these hurt the sandbox principle because it pushes players in a certain direction and therefore should be applied as little as possible imo.

(oh, and it's not that hard to avoid this tax and still be invulnerable to wardecs btw but that's not the point here)


NPC corps ruin Eve as a true sandbox for me,I want to interact with other players ie,shoot them.
NPC corps risrict me from this not allowing me to fufill my self imposed destiny to rid all bad smack talkers from eve leaving me at the coverted worst smacker in eve position.

Sure NPC corp give people who dont want too interact with me a feeling of a true sand box,By denying it too me!

So on one hand we have,Me who wants too interact with others and the smack talking NPC corp member on the other.
some one who doesnt want to even get corp mail from strangers.
let alone be acountable for outbursts in local.

Too you what sounds more sandboxy?

My only wish they would put it on contracts so i can kill that dude that sold be the 1 bill Gyro fromugh

Vixisti
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.21 12:13:00 - [261]
 

I think it's a good change. 11% is a small price to pay for invunerability to war decs tbh.

I do think that there should be a time limit on setting up corps though, otherwise one man corps which constantly close and open will be the order of the day. Perhaps one corp a week limit would discourage people from this likely constant corp hopping to avoid war decs. Of course people can still avoid wd's by going back to their npc corp but they might just be encouraged to join a bigger player corp and all the great experiences that come with that.

People will still have a choice or what they want to do - it's not like CCP is closing npc corps!

The sandbox is alive and well but the sand just got a bit thicker.

PostWithYourAlt
Posted - 2009.09.21 12:18:00 - [262]
 

Originally by: StainLessStealRat

Bohoohooo, I am soo frustrated of loosing all the fight in my failure alliance. Please CCP make it so I can shoot defensless Carebears that do not have PVP Skills so I can get an errection.


StainLessStealRat
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.09.21 12:23:00 - [263]
 

Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 12:32:52
best thing about my corp is we have an alt corp for war decs when things get slow.Wink but true to my words last time we did it it was AAA -A- and one of the other big red alliances that use HED all at the same time. proving my point that NPCers are not the big target they see them self as.

But its not about shooting them its about them being accountable and opening up empire too war over finance and territorial disputes like never before if and thats an awsome concept IMHO.

Most NPCers doing L4's have more SP than me and are more in number than any 0.0 corp so why is it seen so much fear of war decs , Hell form one big alliance allow any corp too join then blob every one for all i care but make them decable.


Cameron Vayle
Omnicron Industrial Conglomerate
Posted - 2009.09.21 12:33:00 - [264]
 

Nothing wrong with a tax on NPC corps. Nothing wrong with limiting what ships you can fly when in NPC corps.

What I would like to see though is this:

You can join ANY NPC corp in the game that is from the empire or the like, not the pirate ones though that might be interesting. Now lets say that you are a miner and that is all you want to do. You are able to join ORE and after you have been there a while you can fly your hulk unlike if you joined another MPC corp that was not mining based. This would be true for all ship types. Limit what you can fly unless that corp would use them for a true purpose.

Now while we are at it how about we say that those that do research and the like get a bonus for being in the true R&D NPC corps?

There is just so much you could do with this it is awsome. Question is...will they even think of doing it?

EveFairy0
Posted - 2009.09.21 12:40:00 - [265]
 

While you still have time until patch, make it possible to form a private enterprise so you don't have all those one man corps popping up and cluttering stations (HQ/office) and your database.

Private enterprise:
- war decable
- 0% tax: the isk comes and goes from your personal wallet
- No HQ/offices, can't recruit other players

Guess that's too much to ask and we'll see all the 'gsa948hg49s8gh' corporations soon after patch, but hey, what ever rocks your socks! Laughing

Flex Nebura
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.21 12:49:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Flex Nebura
You wont even notice the money missing


TBQHFH if ur wont notice money isksing why do u ***** about em not having advantage u know// its like lol u not notice but i ***** antwywa


hmm.. you clearly arent in an npc corp, so I dont get why you seem so upset. But perhaps you you just wanted to jump at a mistake you thought I made.

Anyways no I wouldnt notice if the money I was losing to taxes.
But currently I do notice the gazzillions of extra isk ingame having an influence on the market.
Its a few million here and there, that make every single thing more expensive.

Im not personally feeling oppressed by taxes, nor would I appreciate making 3% extra on mission running. I just wouldnt notice if I wasnt paying taxes either.

Well I probably would when my corp was unable to do anythin. And when My corp couldnt pay its members for certain services rendered.

Tagami Wasp
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.09.21 13:58:00 - [267]
 

Good move, although 11% is a bit low.
In my corp, we voted to set corp tax a 20%, because we are PvP focused and we don't measure our e-peen by comparing isk volume in wallets or rare ships in the hangar. The corp doesn't even provide ship replacement programs and we don't care.

Grow some and join the rest of us in the adrenaline rush Cool.

voxen
Trans-Solar Works
Posted - 2009.09.21 14:10:00 - [268]
 

Edited by: voxen on 21/09/2009 14:13:12

Originally by: StainLessStealRat


Originally by: voxen
Originally by: StainLessStealRat
Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 11:00:47
Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 21/09/2009 10:53:49
Originally by: Julian Lynq
**** them off ya

cant see how it would help anyone however.


people will just stay in npc corps and have 11%less income. i think its a bad change.


Thread not going the way you hoped i see.Smile

Welcome to EvE YARRRR!!
All those NPCers that have been in a NPC corp since day 1 will now have to play the real eve with the rest of us.

Make it 20% i say,
As this is higher than the highest (15%) that is a reasonable corp tax rate IMHO.

This will bee a well needed boost to the allways over looked Empire war dec corps out there who have faces nerf after nerf in the process of making eve more noob friendly.

Good times ahead for the likes of lotto repo ect if 0.0 turns too **** after the patch at least we have a back up Very Happy


what you call the 'real eve' is just your perception of the game and conflicts with the core of eve being a sandbox (i.e. you create your own destiny). Changes like these hurt the sandbox principle because it pushes players in a certain direction and therefore should be applied as little as possible imo.

(oh, and it's not that hard to avoid this tax and still be invulnerable to wardecs btw but that's not the point here)


NPC corps ruin Eve as a true sandbox for me,I want to interact with other players ie,shoot them.
NPC corps risrict me from this not allowing me to fufill my self imposed destiny to rid all bad smack talkers from eve leaving me at the coverted worst smacker in eve position.

Sure NPC corp give people who dont want too interact with me a feeling of a true sand box,By denying it too me!

So on one hand we have,Me who wants too interact with others and the smack talking NPC corp member on the other.
some one who doesnt want to even get corp mail from strangers.
let alone be acountable for outbursts in local.

Too you what sounds more sandboxy?

My only wish they would put it on contracts so i can kill that dude that sold be the 1 bill Gyro fromugh


so basically you simply hold a grudge and just want revenge on that dreaded carebear? Very Happy

I'm not against the 11% tax, hell it should've been there from the start. The only point I was trying to make is that
a:) mandatory changes in a sandbox principle go against the principle of the sandbox itself (don't change a running sandbox at least)
b:) players always either approve or reject changes because it hinders or helps their playing style. In other words; there's no good or wrong.

/me goes back to suiciding carebear haulers in empire.

Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
Posted - 2009.09.21 14:48:00 - [269]
 

The whole income tax is crappy and lazy solution to corp income in the first place and this change does not help it at all. You want corps to have income, pay extra bounties for rats exterminated in their space or just let them sort it out themselves, getting income from player wrecks and mining ops. Why do you have to pay corp tax when you take a day off from corp duties and do some NPCing (L4s being just one of venues) or worse why do you have to have alt to do something so basic.

None is going to lose much by the NPC tax. It will just make people mildly annoyed like any tax does, will get more nubs into scam corps, will get some killed in hopeless wardecs and will annoy people that just like being anonymous lone wolves yet having informal interaction in NPC corps.

Also, people will eventually figure out how to evade taxes, it just forces you to metagame, instead of shooting stuff or making stuff you end up reading some shoddy legalese that ends up badly implemented half of time.

NPC tax makes sense, is nothing gruesome but in the end is addition that makes the game poorer in large part because it spreads crap.

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.09.21 17:12:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: voxen

a:) mandatory changes in a sandbox principle go against the principle of the sandbox itself (don't change a running sandbox at least)



So I guess you object to all that fancy rules changing T2 gear?


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