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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2009.09.20 20:54:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/09/2009 20:55:24
I'm sort of ambivalent when it comes to the reduction of SP required for thermodynamics; I have it at 4, and it is truly a awesome skill and all that jazz.

On the other hand, heating is preety much a core feature of EVE. It's introduction was something that made it much harder for the newer player to compete; while cool for the older player, it's a bit meh. The requirement should've been energy menagement IV from the start.

Given the otherwise massive advantages SP gives you anyway (more cap, more speed, more damage, more buffer, more range, ...) this is hardly a gamebreaker for the old and experienced, and it does introduce the newer players into, imo, a core feature of EVE PVP earlier.

Of course, losing the edge over people who are lazy is not good... but I believe I have the edge over them anyway without new players being deprived of a core game mechanic.

Energy Management V is worth training itself. Would've saved me a ship or two if I had it trained to VI.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.09.20 21:35:00 - [92]
 

Thermodynamics is one of the balancing factors for active tanks vs passive tanks. More people with the skill = stealth buff to active tanking.

Celeritas 5k
Connoisseurs of Candid Coitus
Posted - 2009.09.20 22:02:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Ivanna Nuke
Originally by: Ivena Amethyst
ahhhhrgh!! come the frack on! I just traind the frikkin' energy meangement 5 for thermodynamics Evil or Very Mad


I was just about to train it Twisted Evil


So I take it neither of you think that having 5% more cap is useful in a pvp situation?

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.20 22:43:00 - [94]
 

Why not improve the caldari line of suck and give this ships a role other than "lol primary".

Caldari have a fail line up of ships and more faction ships are introducing more non-pvp concepts. Rail guns are poor in damage and not used in small gang PvP. ECM ships have no DPS, missiles (especially small ones) do very little damage and are in fact broken.

Optimal and tank bonuses, where optimal is hard to use in PvP in pair with low RAIL gun damage and tank bonuses are oriented at PvE, since PvP focuses on peak Damages, where no single tank can last. (PvP requires DPS and remote rep support)

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2009.09.21 00:10:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Opertone

Caldari have a fail line up of ships


No, they don't. Next!

ollobrains
5th Front enterprises
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2009.09.21 03:06:00 - [96]
 

u just need some more skills for caldari in some spots

SickSeven
Simplistic Syndicate
Posted - 2009.09.21 09:43:00 - [97]
 

Is the link to the patch notes broken? I cannot get it to work even with pasting address from link in post.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.22 01:10:00 - [98]
 

i think they will be updating em, early dt today ( mirror anyone) database upgrade im also thinking more changes and a new patch to sisi. So more stuff to come

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2009.09.22 05:59:00 - [99]
 

Quote:

* Hacking will now have the following prerequisites: Science level 3 (from level 5), Electronics Upgrades level 2( from level 5), Electronics level 1 (from level 2) and Engineering level 1 ( from level 2)
* Archaeology will now have the following prerequisites Science lev 3( from level 5), Survey level 3 (from level 5) and Electronics level 1
* Salvaging will now have the following prerequisites Mechanic level 3, Survey at level 3 and Engineering level 1
* Cloaking has the following prerequisites Electronics lev 4 ( was 5)





Do not want. bad devs! *gets paper to swat* dont change these, all that would do is make exploration easier to achieve. If people want to do extreme exploration they have to pay the price and time like all of us did. Plus some of those skills are at that level after you graduate from the noob school, which means, they can star exploration almost immediately after character creation.

dont make eve easier, leave those skill requirements the same.

Areo Hotah
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:22:00 - [100]
 

So POSs will be removed from SOV, and mostly be industrial assets now.

How will this affect the Starbase Defense skill?
Will you be able to use the new military infrastructure with them?

Ophichius
Es and Whizz
Posted - 2009.09.23 07:52:00 - [101]
 

One more vote against lowering SP requirements for mini-professions, thermodynamics, and cloaking. Especially cloaking. Cloaks give incredible ease of transit, and should not be quite so low on the SP tree.

It would be greatly appreciated if a dev could give some explanations as to the issues they believe exist, and will be fixed by changing these skill requirements. I can see no overarching reason to alter the training time for thermodynamics or cloaking.

If there are more/different/bigger roles intended for mini-professions that have not been mentioned yet, that might indeed be a reason to lower SP requirements, but I personally feel that making mini-professions an almost effortless set of skills to acquire defeats the purpose of them being mini-professions; something to strive towards and specialize in, and moves them into the area of 'core skills'.

-O

Adrielle Firewalker
Minmatar
Amarr Will Eat Itself
Posted - 2009.09.23 13:23:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Lost Hamster
Edited by: Lost Hamster on 17/09/2009 12:39:15
Quote:
Bookmarks can no longer be placed in starbase structures


WTF... That was the way how we marked our hangars in the POS, now how should we do that??


This is annoying. The range that needs to between structures makes it impossible to cluster all the ship and component factories together that I use, and I don't even use that many. I have a bookmark for the tower, one for the components and one for the shipyards, and I still have to move the freighter to get access to the small shipyards.

If its a performance issue, fair enough, but this is really frustrating for someone who doesn't want to spend 5-10 minutes slowly navigating around numerous POS structures just to get in range to pick up a load of ships from the shipyard.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.23 13:41:00 - [103]
 

Will CCP be breaking the dypso moon merrygo round in 00 either by putting more sources of dypso in 00 and low sec or by adding dypso moons to wormhole space and perhaps by changing every few days what are on moons. TO make each moon more random ?

something somethingdark
Posted - 2009.09.23 15:12:00 - [104]
 

soooooo

any updates ?

DarkenRhhal
Industrial Spacelane Union
Posted - 2009.09.23 16:28:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: DarkenRhhal on 23/09/2009 16:29:28
Originally by: Adrielle Firewalker
Originally by: Lost Hamster
Edited by: Lost Hamster on 17/09/2009 12:39:15
Quote:
Bookmarks can no longer be placed in starbase structures


WTF... That was the way how we marked our hangars in the POS, now how should we do that??


This is annoying. The range that needs to between structures makes it impossible to cluster all the ship and component factories together that I use, and I don't even use that many. I have a bookmark for the tower, one for the components and one for the shipyards, and I still have to move the freighter to get access to the small shipyards.

If its a performance issue, fair enough, but this is really frustrating for someone who doesn't want to spend 5-10 minutes slowly navigating around numerous POS structures just to get in range to pick up a load of ships from the shipyard.


Im guessing that English is not your primary language.
It says Bookmarks can no longer be placed in starbase structures. Not, You can no longer bookmark starbase structures.
It probably has something to do with hangers getting spammed and bugged. That annoying bug that says you can not un-anchor structure due to something still inside hanger. Even though it shows as empty.


Rocky Tee
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.23 16:59:00 - [106]
 

I am not happy with the recent changes to skills!

WTF CCP im not happy

Did i mention that im not happy?!?!

Susy Assulu
Caldari
Atomic Mexicans
Posted - 2009.09.23 18:14:00 - [107]
 

Thermodynamics skill lowering :(

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2009.09.23 21:09:00 - [108]
 

Thermodynamics Skill Lowering :)

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.24 04:54:00 - [109]
 

Ok heres a thought 97.5%-100% reduction in cpu for probe launcher on SISI whereas a 98%-100% reduction on TQ. Helios has 290 cpu on SISI 350 on TQ

Plus TQ 210 CPU needed for expanded launcher and 220 cpu on SISI ( ok something isnt right here ccp u are gimping the covert ops ships) less reductions, less fitting and more requirements for probe launchers please explain

pygonis
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.24 06:34:00 - [110]
 

Bomb Deployment has Missile Bombardment at level 4 as a prerequisite (instead of level 5) << Bah! and i trained it to lvl 5 for bombs :(

Morscerta
Gallente
Living in the Fridge
Posted - 2009.09.24 08:26:00 - [111]
 

Quote:

* Hacking will now have the following prerequisites: Science level 3 (from level 5), Electronics Upgrades level 2( from level 5), Electronics level 1 (from level 2) and Engineering level 1 ( from level 2)
* Archaeology will now have the following prerequisites Science lev 3( from level 5), Survey level 3 (from level 5) and Electronics level 1
* Salvaging will now have the following prerequisites Mechanic level 3, Survey at level 3 and Engineering level 1
* Cloaking has the following prerequisites Electronics lev 4 ( was 5)


so not good. I concur with my fellow eggpilots, that exploration already became too easy. Lowering skill requirements further really ruins it for people dedicated to it.

Solomon XI
Hidden Souls
Posted - 2009.09.24 10:50:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: ropnes
Edited by: ropnes on 17/09/2009 13:17:19
**** you I just trained Energy Management V a day ago
What the hell


It's a good skill to have. Stop whining.

god7705
Gallente
Lightfoot Pestisss and Blake Enterprises
Posted - 2009.09.24 13:55:00 - [113]
 

"Thermodynamics has Engineering at level 5, Energy Management at level 3(instead of 5) and Science at level 4"

Please reconsider implementing this change. Pilots should be encouraged to train Energy Management to Level 5 as it is a core PvP skill (e.g., 5% capacitor). I know of several skilled pilots that don't use heat and the advantage I have over them by taking the time to train should be relevant even in Dominion. It's like by giving Thermo so easily we are making the lazy's lives EASIER!Twisted Evil

MightyRhinox
Minmatar
Rhinox Heavy Industries
Twilight Military Industrial Complex Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.25 06:21:00 - [114]
 

Seriously, why the skill changes? New players already get the double training time and can train these things in half the time older players did anyway.

Throwing my hat in the "these skill changes are bull" lot.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2009.09.25 13:50:00 - [115]
 

Quote:
so not good. I concur with my fellow eggpilots, that exploration already became too easy. Lowering skill requirements further really ruins it for people dedicated to it.


/agree.... Dropping skill requirements for what is supposed to be a specialized career is just not right.

One of the great things about eve is that you have to put time into a career like this (time that is taken away form your other skills). These are the choices that make the game interesting and keep pod pilots different.

Dropping skill requirements will soon result in everyone having all the career abilities and being the same as each other.

Everquest did the same with Tradeskills. Dumbed it down, made it easier... started adding tradeskill requierements to quests. Soon nearly everyones epic-weapon quests had the need for the player to learn to tradeskill and it ruined the uniquness of the skill.

Rilwar
BlackStar Industrial
Posted - 2009.09.25 15:14:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: EveFairy0
How about

Battleship lvl4 for Black Ops/Marauders/Capital ships
Capital ships lvl4 for Titans
Large turret lvl4 for T2 weapons?

I don't have those yet so pretty please? And if I'm trolling, why are you changing the prereq's of the other skills? Please make an exception and explain the changes for a change. Laughing

And buff mag sites, they're useless as it is. Also makes analyzer a bit useless. (Moar T2 salvage pls.)



Best part is this is valid.

I concur, I want to train Gallente Cruiser IV and get into an Ishtar is well please.

Seems stupid I had to invest the time for prerequisites only to have them changed, regardless of the advantage they will give me over all the newbs who don't have the massive cap I have.


DeviloftheHell
Caldari
Hell's Courtyard
Posted - 2009.09.25 20:53:00 - [117]
 

20:43:02 Warning Warning! You are currently flagged for being part of combat actions and you are about to enter an area with people wanting to kill you! If you continue they will use all means necessary to kill you and the station will probably not let you back in.
Are you sure you want to continue?

remove this goddam annoying message or atleast make a disabling option

GavinCapacitor
Posted - 2009.09.26 01:57:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei

Energy Managment V, indeed, is only needed for Thermodynamics. Could I not use that extra 5% cap on every ship I fly from now on? Sure; but all skill training comes with the opportunity cost of not being able to train something else during that time -- a fact so obvious that it's often overlooked. So, the question is not whether Energy Managment V, an sich, is useful, but whether there weren't more pressing things you could have trained first. For instance, like with Shield Managment, I learnt soon enough that shield/cap regen is far more important than total shield/cap. As a result, I have Shield Operation and Energy Systems Operation both at lv V. I mean, be honest, who ever fired a group of lasers and drained their entire cap down to the last 5% in one shot? I'm not saying Energy Managment V isn't useful (and it determines, to a small degree, whether you can be entirely cap stable, as below a certain cap threshold, you're no longer considered cap stable). But, on a whole, I'd say regen rate far outweighs total capacity. Energy Managment V would take me about 10 days to get to lv V. So, indeed, it would sting a bit had I already done so, just for Thermodynamnics, whereas I could have been training something more urgent instead.

Conversely, the irony is, that needing Energy Managment V, as a prerequisity only for Thermodynamics, in light of what I wrote above, is precisely why CCP probably made a wise decision: if the prerequisite (Energy Managment V) is not as great an importance for a new player, whereas said player might have far more real and immediate use for what that prerequisite unlocks (Thermodynamics), then it's reasonable to ease up on the requirement a bit.


You fail so goddamned hard. Energy management V *DOES* increase your cap regen. Would you like to know why? Too bad, I'm going to explain it anyway. It is very simple: when you increase the total capacity, your recharge time doesn't change. So if you have 100 cap, and it takes 100 seconds to recharge (you get getting 1 per second overall) and you train energy management, you get 105 cap and 100s recharge time. Which is of course 1.05 cap per second (overall). Getting a 5% capacity increase is actually preferable to a 5% reduction in regen time since you not only gain 5% more capacitor regen, but also the extra cap. Now stop talking out of your ass and gtfo.

Malik77
Rape of Virtue
Posted - 2009.09.27 15:41:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: Malik77 on 27/09/2009 15:42:21
How did lowering skill requirments ever become a bad thing? Getting new players to be useful faster should be on everyone's mind. Overheating is a core feature to pvp, and making new players train a month to unlock it, seems a little steep. Now, new pvpers will most likely already have the pre-reqs for the skill from missioning, or only need to take a week or less to get there.

For exploration, yes it wil be easier for new players to get into the miniprofessions, and yes your stuff will go down in price will the extra people doing it. But, even now loads of people, even those who have the skills to explore, just ignore it because some find it boring. The same will be true for the new players, some will like it, many won't.

Sure cloaking on new characters will be annoying, but along the same lines with everything else. Getting new players to fun stuff faster is how you keep them around.

rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Posted - 2009.09.28 01:42:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Malik77
Edited by: Malik77 on 27/09/2009 15:42:21
Overheating is a core feature to pvp, and making new players train a month to unlock it, seems a little steep.



its a rank 3 skill for god sakes, thats 9-11 days


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