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Twelve Jackals
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.10.13 12:51:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: xttz
Originally by: Twelve Jackals
Just saying, its a gut feeling, I have no accurate count.

The notion that there are as much titans as motherships sounds ridiculous to me. In Tri Mk1, a year and a half ago, we had 30+ motherships and none titans.
That's a holdover from when motherships were "I win" ships. Motherships have been virtually useless since the introduction of HICs and changes to dictor bubbles. As such, production declines and the ones that are destroyed are not replaced. You only need to look at the sales forum to see the price crash for motherships dropping to only slightly above mineral cost. Before the nerf they would easily fetch 2 or even 3 times build cost.

In meantime, titan proliferation continued as not only are they useful solo for bonuses and jumpbriding, but are very effective when deployed in numbers. Titan production continued to rise and eventually overtook MS production.


Hmmm have to say it sounds plausible at least. Anyway it clearl ysays something abotu how bad ms are currently Shocked

Sovarin
Caldari
Sacred Templars
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2009.10.13 14:22:00 - [242]
 

Dunno if this has been posted already i cba reading 9 pages.

Super carriers need to be dockable and cheaper to make them a viable ship to train for for an average player. A large percentage of players can fly and own a carrier and or dread. But after that theres nothing to aim for as for 'big toys' are concerned, as most players could neither afford to buy a mom or titan, nor wanted one without loosing an alt.
Just 1 last little thing the drone bays need to be expanded on the super carriers, to give them to capability to hold fighters AND bombers, not either or.

Rolling Eyes

Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.10.13 16:05:00 - [243]
 

I agree with the scaling up of capship sizes, especially carriers and supercarriers :)

Oljud Zork
Evolution
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.10.13 16:05:00 - [244]
 

Edited by: Oljud Zork on 13/10/2009 23:12:15
Edited by: Oljud Zork on 13/10/2009 22:28:06
Edited by: Oljud Zork on 13/10/2009 16:07:50
Originally by: Sovarin
Dunno if this has been posted already i cba reading 9 pages.

Super carriers need to be dockable and cheaper to make them a viable ship to train for for an average player. A large percentage of players can fly and own a carrier and or dread. But after that theres nothing to aim for as for 'big toys' are concerned, as most players could neither afford to buy a mom or titan, nor wanted one without loosing an alt.
Just 1 last little thing the drone bays need to be expanded on the super carriers, to give them to capability to hold fighters AND bombers, not either or.

Rolling Eyes



I suggest you read the previous posts so you know the arguments that speak against your opinion.

* Super Carriers should NOT be dockable, they are supercapitals and if you want to fly one get used to its drawbacks. CCP are currently working on a way to dock SC in 0.0 space in outposts, using utterly expensive outpost upgrades. A video presentation from Fanfest, forward to 22-23ish minutes in to the presentation. More information about this can certainly be found on this forum.

* Super Carriers "Fighter Bomber/Fighter Bay" do need to be a bit larger, but SC should not be able to hold for example 30 Bombers and 20 fighters. I believe that the SCīs future role are as a capital killers, and does not need a ton of fighters. By giving SC both Bombers and Fighters will it remove a part of the role as the regular Carriers hold. Regular Carriers will receive a tweaking to their triage and by giving SC both FB and Fighters will this lead to that no-one wants to fly carriers. The space will be filled with a metric****ton of Super Carriers... Then will the SC be nerfed back to the stone-age to make people fly regular carriers again and we are back to square one and the SC will stay inside a POS.

* I agree with a lot of people that the graphical size of SC should be increased, so a SC are 40-50% of the length of a titan.

I believe that all ships in EvE have a certain role in the fleet and to leave the battlefield victorious must the Fleet Commander use the ships as tools, and he has to use his set of tools in a correct way. By introducing unbalanced ships will only result in a disaster, with all the work with rebalancing them and that we will flame CCP for nerfing our ships. Therefore must the SC be balanced from the beginning now when CCP introduce the Fighter Bombers. Personally do I have a small problem with the damage bonus as the Nyx have...

Regards

Zork

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.13 19:14:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: HeliosGal
so make the phoenix bigger, still yet to see pirate faction dread and carrier blueprints yet. They could have 20 % boost over normal.


Not sure you read/comprehended my post at all when you attempted to respond to it.

Oljud Zork
Evolution
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.10.13 22:16:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: Battle Tested
Edited by: Battle Tested on 12/10/2009 14:59:51
Edited by: Battle Tested on 12/10/2009 14:58:53
I think as far as docking the SC in an NPC station the answer should be no, however I would have to say outposts should have the ability to add a upgrade that makes SC's dockable.

As far as the dps of fighterbombers..I personally think they are right on line with their role and class.

Drone bays is the best idea, Carriers should get 1500m3 drone bay + a fighter bay of 100k m3(2 flights of 10)......SC's should get a 3k m3 drone bay, 200k m3 fighter bay, and 200k m3 fighter bomber bay.


Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 13/10/2009 08:26:53
Models need to be larger. Phoenix is currently larger than most the MS. That's complete bull**** since it can dock.

Also we either need the ability to dock or carry both fighters and bombers, full 20 drone flights of each. Asking something that can't dock to redo your fit every engagement to be flexible is downright unrealistic. Unless each of us gets a personal CHA stocked with fighters there isnt jack we can do beyond hauling 5+ loads of fighters back and forth every time we want to fight.


During Fanfest did I participate in the roundtable discussion about capitals. I asked if we would see three separate bays on Super Carriers; one for Fighters, one for Fighter Bombers and a regular drone bay. The answer was NO. Fighters and Fighter Bombers will share one and the same bay, and regular "vanilla" drones would be in a bay separated from the Fighters/Fighter Bombers Bay. Meaning you have to decide how many spare Fighter Bombers you want to have and still being able to launch regular Fighters.

After arguing the entire day over irc with mothership pilots that actually fly the ships, (remember my first post? I am a dedicated Archon pilot, nothing else) I must admit that it is hard to stock up the drones and refit depending on the task that the SC will do in the fleet. Yes 20 regular fighters are nice dps and the arguments that I presented in my previous post about stripping the carrier of one of its roles, the use of fighters against BS fleets, and that it would render people to switch to SC instead of carriers might be to bold said of me. The new SC will still come with a nice price of 11-12 Billions (without the fittings...) and you can by 11 Thannys for that price. The cost benefit calculation will force some people to stick to their carriers since they canīt handle the lost isk if they are shoot down.

This conclusion lead to only one thing, all the Super Carrier need a larger Fighter/Fighter Bomber bay. And the only SC who can field a full set of FB and Fighters are the Nyx.

The Nyx has room for 22 Fighter Bombers (7500m3/drone * 22 = 165 000m3) and 20 Fighters (4000m3/drone * 20 = 80 000m3) The total drone bay are 250 000m3 = used space Fighters + Fighter Bombers 245 000m3 this gives 5000m3 to tinker around with vanilla drones.
Compare this to the Aeon which have a drone bay of 200 000m3 and this gives 20 Fighter Bombers (7500/drone * 20 = 150 000m3) and 12 Fighters (4000m3/drone * 12 = 48 000m3) and left are only 2000m3 for vanilla drones.

I am not going to go emo about this, the issue are now pointed out to CCP to think of when they balance the Super Carriers against each other. The fact that we will have different FBīs/Fighters bay separated from the regular drone bay will make it a lot easier to decide if to:

* Field a full set of Bombers and keep spare bombers and nearly no fighters, or the vice versa.
* Or go for a mix with no spare FB and not being able to field a maximum of regular Fighters, or the vice versa.

You are still being able to bring all the vanilla drones you like and I hope that all the Super Carriers will receive a regular drone bay larger then 4000-5000m3...


Regards

Zork

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.13 23:08:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: Oljud Zork
Originally by: Battle Tested
Edited by: Battle Tested on 12/10/2009 14:59:51

Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 13/10/2009 08:26:53
Models need to be larger. Phoenix is currently larger than most the MS. That's complete bull**** since it can dock.

Also we either need the ability to dock or carry both fighters and bombers, full 20 drone flights of each. Asking something that can't dock to redo your fit every engagement to be flexible is downright unrealistic. Unless each of us gets a personal CHA stocked with fighters there isnt jack we can do beyond hauling 5+ loads of fighters back and forth every time we want to fight.


During Fanfest did I participate in the roundtable discussion about capitals. I asked if we would see three separate bays on Super Carriers; one for Fighters, one for Fighter Bombers and a regular drone bay. The answer was NO. Fighters and Fighter Bombers will share one and the same bay, and regular "vanilla" drones would be in a bay separated from the Fighters/Fighter Bombers Bay. Meaning you have to decide how many spare Fighter Bombers you want to have and still being able to launch regular Fighters.

After arguing the entire day over irc with mothership pilots that actually fly the ships, (remember my first post? I am a dedicated Archon pilot, nothing else) I must admit that it is hard to stock up the drones and refit depending on the task that the SC will do in the fleet. Yes 20 regular fighters are nice dps and the arguments that I presented in my previous post about stripping the carrier of one of its roles, the use of fighters against BS fleets, and that it would render people to switch to SC instead of carriers might be to bold said of me. The new SC will still come with a nice price of 11-12 Billions (without the fittings...) and you can by 11 Thannys for that price. The cost benefit calculation will force some people to stick to their carriers since they canīt handle the lost isk if they are shoot down.

This conclusion lead to only one thing, all the Super Carrier need a larger Fighter/Fighter Bomber bay. And the only SC who can field a full set of FB and Fighters are the Nyx.

The Nyx has room for 22 Fighter Bombers (7500m3/drone * 22 = 165 000m3) and 20 Fighters (4000m3/drone * 20 = 80 000m3) The total drone bay are 250 000m3 = used space Fighters + Fighter Bombers 245 000m3 this gives 5000m3 to tinker around with vanilla drones.
Compare this to the Aeon which have a drone bay of 200 000m3 and this gives 20 Fighter Bombers (7500/drone * 20 = 150 000m3) and 12 Fighters (4000m3/drone * 12 = 48 000m3) and left are only 2000m3 for vanilla drones.

I am not going to go emo about this, the issue are now pointed out to CCP to think of when they balance the Super Carriers against each other. The fact that we will have different FBīs/Fighters bay separated from the regular drone bay will make it a lot easier to decide if to:

* Field a full set of Bombers and keep spare bombers and nearly no fighters, or the vice versa.
* Or go for a mix with no spare FB and not being able to field a maximum of regular Fighters, or the vice versa.

You are still being able to bring all the vanilla drones you like and I hope that all the Super Carriers will receive a regular drone bay larger then 4000-5000m3...


Regards

Zork


I completely agree with this post.

Vincent Jarjadian
Posted - 2009.10.14 00:56:00 - [248]
 

Can someone who managed to test a 'Supercarrier' on SISI tell me if the fighter bombers can be assigned the same as normal fighters.

sdchew
Gallente
Jazz Associates
Aeternus.
Posted - 2009.10.14 02:34:00 - [249]
 

Originally by: Vincent Jarjadian
Can someone who managed to test a 'Supercarrier' on SISI tell me if the fighter bombers can be assigned the same as normal fighters.


At the moment, it appears you can delegate the Fighter Bombers on SIS. However, I think I saw a prior post from a Dev that it will not be so on TQ. This could have been changed since then.

A lot of things aren't set in stone on SIS. The dedicated Fighter/Fighter Bomber bays aren't on SIS at the moment by the way.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.14 02:57:00 - [250]
 

there will be a lot of tweaks to come yet. PIrate faction dreads are needed

mystiq pwnzorg
Posted - 2009.10.14 13:32:00 - [251]
 

I have one problem


why did u took the gang link and triage? ugh

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.10.14 20:05:00 - [252]
 

Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 14/10/2009 20:05:34
Doh, the ganlink is gone for supercarriers? How come?

Oljud Zork
Evolution
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.10.15 00:02:00 - [253]
 

Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 14/10/2009 20:05:34
Doh, the ganlink is gone for supercarriers? How come?


Thats why!

Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Frontier Venture
Posted - 2009.10.15 02:41:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: mystiq pwnzorg
I have one problem


why did u took the gang link and triage? ugh


The gang link is a bit huh, (Minus the fact that the Titan can execute them, so I guess its mildly pointless) but Triage was taken as the current Supercarrier tank is way too good for triage. You really want to try and break an Aeon tank after Triage mode?

Have fun.

--Isaac

starliight
Reliables Inc
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2009.10.15 03:24:00 - [255]
 

SC's will never be scaled back so the average player can own one. For all these people to keep sugesting such a rediculas idea is beyond me. The sc should always be a ship only the best of the best can fly (sp and skill wise) especialy after the changes that are going to be released in the next xpac, so for all you guys who wine about not having the skills to fly one STFU and troll another forum.


the slight price reduction does however bring the ship inline with expected demand when this goes live on tq

Major Hunt
Posted - 2009.10.15 06:17:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Originally by: Major Hunt
Edited by: Major Hunt on 11/10/2009 07:08:24
Serious attention is required to the drone bay sizes

NYX is the only supercarrier to be able to carry 20 bombers and 20 fighters, and leaves no room for vanila drones

All other super carriers cannot have a full set of each. With the NYX bunus to drone damage, it now becomes a no brainer to fly a NYX above all other races. At bare minimum all supercarriers should be able to carry a full set of fighters and bombers, or none should.

Please address this CCP. I think its a critical balance issue. Since these are supercarriers, 4km long with massive fighter bays to forfil thier primary function, i doubt the designers would overlook such a critcal flaw in the design Wink


Eh, I disagree. The Gallente one should have the best drone bay. (IE, the whole reason the race exists...) Besides, CCP never stated that Supercarriers were supposed to hold a whole flight of fighters and fighter bombers at the same time. The fact that your trying means nothing tbh. It might mean you'll have to think ahead before going into battle.

--Isaac


Thats great, but by saying that you also saying a ship that was specifically designed to carrier fighters/fighter bombers cannot actually fit a full flight. The logistics involved in trying to replace bombers or fighters are difficult enough without trying to organise last minute changes between the two cause you races designer was short sighted enough to fit a 2.5m m3 ship maintenance array and not throw in that extra 100k m3 for the fighters... I would swap 1m m3 of ship maintenance bay for more fighter/bomber capacity anyday. Try hauling 150k m3 of drones before each fight... Im not saying all drone bays should be equal, but as it stands, a NYX can carry 20 fighters and 20 Bombers, which all get a damage bonus. No other race can do that. A NYX should have the biggest drone bay, but all races supercarriers should be able to carry full flights of bombers and fighters as a minimum, or none should. (i think you missed that bit)

Currently all races carriers can carry enough Fighters for a full flight with replacements.

Supercarriers should not be able to dock. Its not an issue. 99% of people who have them have them on a dedicated alt. You cant always have your cake and eat it to.

Also introduce a new repping module class, "supercapital armour/shield reppers" or introduce a ship bonus, ie 25% rep amount per level for supercarriers, 100% bounus per level for titans. Current capital reppers are ridiculous in comparison to the hitpoints given. Hitpoints dont increase the "tank", only the "buffer"....

Oljud Zork
Evolution
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.10.15 10:50:00 - [257]
 

Edited by: Oljud Zork on 15/10/2009 12:44:00
Edited by: Oljud Zork on 15/10/2009 10:53:39
Originally by: Major Hunt
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Originally by: Major Hunt
Edited by: Major Hunt on 11/10/2009 07:08:24
Serious attention is required to the drone bay sizes

NYX is the only supercarrier to be able to carry 20 bombers and 20 fighters, and leaves no room for vanila drones

All other super carriers cannot have a full set of each. With the NYX bunus to drone damage, it now becomes a no brainer to fly a NYX above all other races. At bare minimum all supercarriers should be able to carry a full set of fighters and bombers, or none should.

Please address this CCP. I think its a critical balance issue. Since these are supercarriers, 4km long with massive fighter bays to forfil thier primary function, i doubt the designers would overlook such a critcal flaw in the design Wink


Eh, I disagree. The Gallente one should have the best drone bay. (IE, the whole reason the race exists...) Besides, CCP never stated that Supercarriers were supposed to hold a whole flight of fighters and fighter bombers at the same time. The fact that your trying means nothing tbh. It might mean you'll have to think ahead before going into battle.

--Isaac


Thats great, but by saying that you also saying a ship that was specifically designed to carrier fighters/fighter bombers cannot actually fit a full flight. The logistics involved in trying to replace bombers or fighters are difficult enough without trying to organise last minute changes between the two cause you races designer was short sighted enough to fit a 2.5m m3 ship maintenance array and not throw in that extra 100k m3 for the fighters... I would swap 1m m3 of ship maintenance bay for more fighter/bomber capacity anyday. Try hauling 150k m3 of drones before each fight... Im not saying all drone bays should be equal, but as it stands, a NYX can carry 20 fighters and 20 Bombers, which all get a damage bonus. No other race can do that. A NYX should have the biggest drone bay, but all races supercarriers should be able to carry full flights of bombers and fighters as a minimum, or none should. (i think you missed that bit)

Currently all races carriers can carry enough Fighters for a full flight with replacements.

Supercarriers should not be able to dock. Its not an issue. 99% of people who have them have them on a dedicated alt. You cant always have your cake and eat it to.

Also introduce a new repping module class, "supercapital armour/shield reppers" or introduce a ship bonus, ie 25% rep amount per level for supercarriers, 100% bounus per level for titans. Current capital reppers are ridiculous in comparison to the hitpoints given. Hitpoints dont increase the "tank", only the "buffer"....


I totally agree with you about the dronebay vs ship maintenance bay size. I also think that the Nyx are a bit overpowered compared to the other SC with its ability to field 20 Fighters and 20 Fighter Bombers...

Yes it is a nightmare to haul 150k of Fighter Bombers, on SiSi is it fairly easy done. But consider the idea of hauling those drones deep out in 0.0 on TQ and its not that fun anymore...
Also when the Mothership was introduced and designed was the Fighters the largest drones with a size of 4000m3, all Motherships can field 20 Fighters + spares. If the scientists invent a new and cool Fighter Bomber drone with the size of 7500m3 is it logical to me that all the navy's take their Motherships in to shipyards and rebuild them to take advantage of this new technology. Before launching them and rename them to Super Carriers...

Yes a new bonus to repair modules are needed for all the Super Capitals. If I donīt remember wrong from the Fanfest did CCP say that they would not introduce either T2 or Super Capital modules, maybe faction mods but that was not sure... So the only way around this as it looks to me are a bonus for repair modules to the Super Capitals.

Regards

Zork

Oljud Zork
Evolution
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.10.15 14:23:00 - [258]
 

Edited by: Oljud Zork on 15/10/2009 14:27:01
Edited by: Oljud Zork on 15/10/2009 14:25:59
Edited by: Oljud Zork on 15/10/2009 14:23:26
Originally by: Oljud Zork

When the Mothership was introduced and designed was the Fighters the largest drones with a size of 4000m3, all Motherships can field 20 Fighters + spares. If the scientists invent a new and cool Fighter Bomber drone with the size of 7500m3 is it logical to me that all the navy's take their Motherships in to shipyards and rebuild them to take advantage of this new technology. Before launching them and rename them to Super Carriers...


mow lets look on some figures:

Nyx drone bay = 250 000m3 = 50 Fighters.
Hel drone bay = 225 000m3 = 45 Fighters.
Wyvern drone bay = 200 000m3 = 40 Fighters.
Aeon Drone bay = 200 000m3 = 40 Fighters.

Given the size of fighters (5000m3) do I think that all the Super Carriers are balanced and the Nyx should have the largest drone bay because Gallente favour drones right. But introducing the Fighter Bombers (7500m3) turn this upside down! Either do the pilots of these ships have to focus on one sort or a mix but not being able to max out the drones.

I suggest that all Super Carriers get a Fighter / Fighter Bomber bay of at least 250 000m3 that allow them to field both a full wing of Fighters and Fighter Bombers. After fiddling around with the numbers do I want to have a Fighter / Fighter Bomber bay for all the races containing 275 000m3 so all can have 22 Fighter Bombers and 22 Fighters, it is not to many spare Fighters and Fighter Bombers, but it allow the pilot to be prepared for a little of everything. If time is given can the pilot swap all his Fighters to Fighter Bomber and are able to fill the bay with 36 Fighter Bombers, that's a lot of spare Bombers if he gets de-fanged in a capital fight and need to launch more.

Since the Hel has 12.5% larger drone bay and the Nyx has 25% larger drone than the Wyvern and the Aeon. Do I want to keep these proportions. I suggest that the new Fighter / Fighter Bomber bay get the following sizes and the added space in the drone bay are removed from the Ship Maintenance Bay.

Nyx = Old bay 250k, suggested bay 343k m3. Old Ship Maintenance Bay = 2'500k m3, suggested bay 2'427k m3.
Hel = Old bay 225k, suggested bay 310k m3. Old Ship Maintenance Bay = 2'500k m3, suggested bay 2'415k m3.
Weyvern = Old bay 200k, suggested bay 275k m3. Old Ship Maintenance Bay = 2'500k m3, suggested bay 2'425k m3.
Aeon = Old bay 200k, suggested bay 275k m3. Old Ship Maintenance Bay = 2'500k m3, suggested bay 2'425k m3.

With this new bay size can:
Nyx hold 45 Fighter Bombers or 68 Fighters or a mix, 32 Fighter Bombers and 20 Fighters.
Hel hold 41 Fighter Bombers or 62 Fighters or a mix, 28 Fighter Bombers and 20 Fighters.
Weyvern hold 36 Fighter Bombers or 55 Fighters or a mix, 23 Fighter Bombers and 20 Fighters.
Aeon hold 36 Fighter Bombers or 55 Fighters or a mix, 23 Fighter Bombers and 20 Fighters.

Because Fighter Bombers and Fighters will share the same drone bay in the upcoming expansion will we not see SC with 1000 warrior T2 since they simply will not fit in, if the pilot are going to have the amount of needed vanilla drones. Right now do I have 4-5k regular drones in my Archon and since the SC are a little bigger do I think that a figure for the regular drone bay should be around 6-10k m3 depending on the race for the Super Carriers.

Regards

Zork

AL G0RE
Intergalactic Hunters of ManBearPig
Posted - 2009.10.15 17:33:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Oljud Zork


Nyx = Old bay 250k, suggested bay 343k m3. Old Ship Maintenance Bay = 2'500k m3, suggested bay 2'427k m3.
Hel = Old bay 225k, suggested bay 310k m3. Old Ship Maintenance Bay = 2'500k m3, suggested bay 2'415k m3.
Weyvern = Old bay 200k, suggested bay 275k m3. Old Ship Maintenance Bay = 2'500k m3, suggested bay 2'425k m3.
Aeon = Old bay 200k, suggested bay 275k m3. Old Ship Maintenance Bay = 2'500k m3, suggested bay 2'425k m3.

With this new bay size can:
Nyx hold 45 Fighter Bombers or 68 Fighters or a mix, 32 Fighter Bombers and 20 Fighters.
Hel hold 41 Fighter Bombers or 62 Fighters or a mix, 28 Fighter Bombers and 20 Fighters.
Weyvern hold 36 Fighter Bombers or 55 Fighters or a mix, 23 Fighter Bombers and 20 Fighters.
Aeon hold 36 Fighter Bombers or 55 Fighters or a mix, 23 Fighter Bombers and 20 Fighters.

Because Fighter Bombers and Fighters will share the same drone bay in the upcoming expansion will we not see SC with 1000 warrior T2 since they simply will not fit in, if the pilot are going to have the amount of needed vanilla drones. Right now do I have 4-5k regular drones in my Archon and since the SC are a little bigger do I think that a figure for the regular drone bay should be around 6-10k m3 depending on the race for the Super Carriers.



Those numbers look great, not being able to fit a set of fighters and bombers is detrimental. I believe someone mentioned earlier the logistical nightmare of 'refitting' a drone bay in 0.0, especially if you need a quick change when the need arises. SC's should really be able to have at a bare minimum 20 fighters and 20 bombers, as well as the mix of 'vanilla' drones. Due to not docking, and they should never be allowed to do so, having this drone bay buff is necessary.

Chuck Skull
b.b.k
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2009.10.15 17:57:00 - [260]
 

Originally by: Oljud Zork
With this new bay size can:
Nyx hold 45 Fighter Bombers or 68 Fighters or a mix, 32 Fighter Bombers and 20 Fighters.
Hel hold 41 Fighter Bombers or 62 Fighters or a mix, 28 Fighter Bombers and 20 Fighters.
Weyvern hold 36 Fighter Bombers or 55 Fighters or a mix, 23 Fighter Bombers and 20 Fighters.
Aeon hold 36 Fighter Bombers or 55 Fighters or a mix, 23 Fighter Bombers and 20 Fighters.


I like these numbers too. Still big enough to offer flexibility and spares to the pilot without being so big that killing their fighters and bombers is pointless for a hostile fleet.

If they want to specialise in one type then they have a good number of spares meaning they can launch a second wave if the first wanders into smartbomb hell(will happen). Which is good, but they have to pay a price if they want the added versatility of fielding fighters and bombers. In only having a small number of spares in each type it means there's a danger that they could be pushed onto a less preferable drone type quite quickly in a bigger engagement. Makes for an interesting fitting choice.

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.15 20:18:00 - [261]
 

Just in case we haven't hammered this into the ground enough Seleene, lack of being able to launch 20 fighters and 20 bombers at the very least for every MS will really kill their popularity and use.

Haxfar Portlaind
Posted - 2009.10.15 21:01:00 - [262]
 

Does anyone have pics of the other fighter-bombers? Smile

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.16 00:02:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: Haxfar Portlaind
Does anyone have pics of the other fighter-bombers? Smile


The caldari one looks amazing but I didn't take pics sorry :(

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.16 08:13:00 - [264]
 

figther bombers on NPC level 5 missions, anamolies and sleeper sites ? thoughts

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.16 09:21:00 - [265]
 

Originally by: HeliosGal
figther bombers on NPC level 5 missions, anamolies and sleeper sites ? thoughts


No

Oljud Zork
Evolution
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.10.16 12:20:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: HeliosGal
figther bombers on NPC level 5 missions, anamolies and sleeper sites ? thoughts


No! Not with fighter bombers. The Fighter Bombers are only useful against capitals that are moving below 100M/S or standing still like the Dreads do in Siege or Carriers in Triage. All other ships can just laugh at the the Fighter Bombers since their torpedoes don't hurt them at all... Thatīs why the Super Carrier must be able to fit a full wing of regular Fighters.

Speaking of level 5 missions in general, I donīt do them I have never ever tried. But I have heard that it is possible to solo a lv5 with two accounts one in carrier and one in a command ship with fighters assigned. It can be a rumour, I honestly donīt know and I certainly donīt care either.

I have lived in a class 4 wormhole and done some serous amounts of anomalies in class 4 and class 5 wormholes. Bringing in a carrier was a bad, bad, bad and utterly stupid idea. It survived but barley, sleepers are a lot more smart than other NPC. By deploying the carrier makes more BS to spawn and by assigning Fighters from a POS give the same result. Not to mention it is tricky to get the carrier in and out from the WH... I am sure that the lads who run level 5 WH on a regular basis may have found a way to deploy multiple carriers and spider repair each other. But I honestly donīt have the experience of this in a wormhole so I am going to drop this thought...

Regards

Zork


Major Hunt
Posted - 2009.10.16 13:49:00 - [267]
 

Originally by: Haxfar Portlaind
Does anyone have pics of the other fighter-bombers? Smile


Cyclops

Malleus

Mantis


No Minnie pic yet

starliight
Reliables Inc
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2009.10.16 18:42:00 - [268]
 

i think alot of people are missing the general idea with the massive hp increse to moms, they dont need a bonsus to how much armor they rep. they need a bonus to how much armor they remote rep. the ship is not designed to be a solo boat, its meant to be in fleet engagements and what better way to do that than to fill your low (or mid) sots with all harnders or enams. That will greatly increase the ehp of the mom and with a remote rep bonus make them much more substantial in fleet warefare.

Zaethiel
Infinity Research
Posted - 2009.10.17 07:51:00 - [269]
 

Edited by: Zaethiel on 17/10/2009 11:04:25
Edited by: Zaethiel on 17/10/2009 10:53:20
Reasons i won't warp a MoM to a fight.

1. There is a HIC present. Currently Motherships have no real way of dealing with HICs effectively. They are too small for the bombers. Without being able to field 20 fighters and 20 bombers and 80 heavies and 20 mediums and 20 smalls, you cannot guard yourself against HICs and trouble against dictors.

In the end if you warp a mothership into a fight and your side isn't winning, your going to lose your mothership no matter what your EHP is and you will have no way of getting out once things start to go poorly.

2. In a capital fight just about everyone has smartbombs. I like the HP of the bombers but they are still easy for cruiser gangs to kill, sniper fleets to alpha, and of course 100 smartbombs to annihilate.

3. Hp tank is good, but without a good way to kill HiCs or get away form them, it won't save you from a decent gang. If Motherships could rep more than 0.3% of their armor per rep then they might be able to survive on the battlefield a bit better.


until they have some decent escapability the MoM will continue to be a a very expensive gank ship. Maybe ill hotdrop and insta pop frieghters at jump bridges.



P.S. Can Capitals please get the option to lock their Hangers? It bothers me that someone can walk up and take or put anything inside my hangers as long as they are in my corp. Its never been a problem in the past but still i want an option to lock my hangers from anyone but the pilot.

P.S.^2
Are Fighter Bombers affected by missile skills? Cit. Torps skill?

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.10.17 11:36:00 - [270]
 

Any word yet on XXL shieldboosters / repairers or bonuses to aid their tank?

Loads of HP will only make you last a bit longer, and the amount of time it currently takes to boost up all that shield on my wyvern is #&*(^# ridiculous.


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