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Ethan Hunte
Ninjas With Frikkin StarShips
Posted - 2009.10.09 17:56:00 - [181]
 

how many super cap accounts strict do you think there are?

maybe 1000. Drop in the bucket.

plus those characters can still be sold to other players. And whether paid for by someone else or the original owner, money got no color.

If you are in a super cap only then you can do nothing else in game if you have one account.

You cant even dock and sort out your hangar. The only thing you are likely to own is that ship. It's the most silly stupid concept ever.

Soleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.10.09 18:14:00 - [182]
 

Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 09/10/2009 18:18:36
The notion that by allowing supercapitals to dock that somehow all of a sudden 10,000 of them will show up is far fetched at best.

It takes months to build the parts. They're expensive. CCP stated somewhere that the economics of dominion will not allow for the current level of production for them. Also post dominion they won't have the benefit of being produced in invulnerable sov 4 systems. And since we're going to see supercaps die in glorious explosions on live the numbers will be reduced naturally.

Supercaps will always be rare, regardless of the docking mechanic. Will more people want them? Sure, but just because more people want them, doesn't mean the supply is there.

Not being able to dock negatively impacts the pilot who sits in a pos for 6-18 months unable to do squat, waiting for a war and then a capital engagement within that war that they'd be able to join in. These are not unbalanced Gods of war like they were previously and don't justify the need to keep the pilot slaved to the ship.

Meeogi
Amarr
Lone Star Privateers
Posted - 2009.10.09 18:37:00 - [183]
 

If you can put out a secure container.....a massive city in space like a supercarrier should at least have a locking mech. when you leave.

Why not make a module locking device?

The NEW SUPERCAP LOCKER 3000!!! would require a password to place your pod inside and steal it more or less.....as I believe this is the main problem.

I mean if a supercap has hundreds of thousands of people living on them ...you would think someone would lock the pod door.

I find it hard to believe that security devices went away with the Car alarm, thousands of years ago on earth.Wink

Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari
Final Agony
Posted - 2009.10.09 19:16:00 - [184]
 

If they could be docked... Id get one in a heartbeat, till then meh ill pass having to have an alt to park it.

Avoida
Posted - 2009.10.09 19:43:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Meeogi
If you can put out a secure container.....a massive city in space like a supercarrier should at least have a locking mech. when you leave.

Why not make a module locking device?

The NEW SUPERCAP LOCKER 3000!!! would require a password to place your pod inside and steal it more or less.....as I believe this is the main problem.


Pilot to NSL 3000: Open the pod bay doors please, NSL
NSL 3000 to pilot: I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that..

Kamikazie
Amarr
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.10.09 22:09:00 - [186]
 

Edited by: Kamikazie on 09/10/2009 22:34:37
I think a lot of people are missing the docking concept. Its meant only for those that hold sov and upgrade the station far enough, whose to say there isn't a limit such as there is now on the docked m3 of super caps. Look at the way the arrays work. Saying people will go back to low sec and dock for ever and spin their ships is not correct as you CAN NOT have sov in low sec.

Super carriers AKA Mother ships need to be made specifically into mother ships not beefed up carriers, unless of course CCP changed the name as there are true mother ships coming out in a future patch, in which case a super carrier should not be a super capital then, therefor allowed to dock. What we really need is some more information from CCP.

The problem is that all of you users have no idea what you want. Really, I develop software and I have NEVER met a user who could tell me they knew exactly what they want. What you think you want is for the most part is an advantage exclusive to you and no one else. Something like this...(I am generalizing and statistically I will incorporate some from one group into the other as you are outliers so when I pick you up don't cry saying I am wrong)

Current Super Capital Owners
Cant dock and think that it should not change as if you couldn't dock for months why should they be allowed to now to benefit all the people looking to buy them since they announced the change.(this group probably has many accounts most paid for by GTC)

OR

Docking is a great thing as I want to get out so I can do other things (this group has 1 or 2 accounts more then likely paid for with cash)

If you look most people saying they don't want super caps to dock is because they are in major alliances or have a significant amount of cash to buy PLEX for all their accounts with ISK so they can have massive amounts of accounts with out spending real money. A Super Carrier is a pleasure toy like giant yachts for the rich IRL.

EDIT

http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Capital_Ship_Maintenance_Array

Mr Opinions
Posted - 2009.10.09 23:30:00 - [187]
 


wrt docking supercarriers. There have been many threads suggesting that one be able to moor them outside stations. So that they would be visible in some way but, technically outside the station for immersion purposes, while still being invulnerable (behind the station shield etc). The moored ships could either be visible on approach to the station, or, the much easier version from a developers point of view, there could be an option on the station to "access moored ships" which would show a ship-maintenance-array-like list of ships moored there; you would be able to see all of them including owners in a window, but only access the ones you own.

Imprisoning characters in their supercaps because of a lack of in-game security is not a good way to reward all that training.


Meeogi
Amarr
Lone Star Privateers
Posted - 2009.10.10 00:25:00 - [188]
 

Said it before ..I'll say it again....a simple pod lock like secure containers would solve the prob. Still behind a pos shield.

And I promise they will still get stolen all the time...people will give out the passwords to their most "trusted" friends.

the teddybear
Posted - 2009.10.10 01:42:00 - [189]
 

super carriers will not, should not, or ever be dockable. EVER if you signed your life away to one and regret it either sell it ir SD it. otherwise no one cares.

Stealthbug
Posted - 2009.10.10 07:29:00 - [190]
 

Edited by: Stealthbug on 10/10/2009 07:56:03
OK soo why can 1 Nyx kill a titan alone? Even if the titan uses the doomsday on it? That's kinda ridiculous....

I cant say i can agree with a super carrier, alone, killing a titan. Incase you are wondering, this was tested by a couple friends of mine on sisi.

Twelve Jackals
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.10.10 08:51:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Stealthbug
Edited by: Stealthbug on 10/10/2009 07:56:03
OK soo why can 1 Nyx kill a titan alone? Even if the titan uses the doomsday on it? That's kinda ridiculous....

I cant say i can agree with a super carrier, alone, killing a titan. Incase you are wondering, this was tested by a couple friends of mine on sisi.


Its rather easy.

Nyx can tank 6-7k dps or so

titan deals 5k dps thus nyx can permatank it

nyx deals 12k dps - no titan can permatank it


AL G0RE
Intergalactic Hunters of ManBearPig
Posted - 2009.10.10 09:54:00 - [192]
 

There should be a boost to the drone bay size, you should be able to have a full set of bombers and traditional fighters in the bay. As well as having the assortment of other drones.

achoura
Posted - 2009.10.10 12:06:00 - [193]
 

Any mechanic making the player a slave to the game removes the fun. This is the fundamental flaw in poses which is why they're being changed. What is the point of a player spending years training the skills for various ships, if getting into a more expensive one instantly means they wasted 3 years?

That is the problem.

Saurish
Posted - 2009.10.10 16:01:00 - [194]
 

Only problem i see with capitals, is correct warp animation. Atm is totaly broken.

something somethingdark
Posted - 2009.10.10 16:16:00 - [195]
 

Edited by: something somethingdark on 10/10/2009 16:16:35
feedback tiem nao

1) FFA beacons are barely playable due to very low fps
2) Just the bombers from 2 moms... sorry supercarriers make your fps drop considerably
3) A T2 fitted supercarrier is not an acurate measure for ... anything
4) T2 fitted supercarriers cant tank at all
5) The dps output from bombers is imballanced (sig res etc everything)
6) Drone bays are way too small on supercarriers
7) Carriers are hardly worth being called capital ship if you put it next to a supercarrier



Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
Posted - 2009.10.10 16:23:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: LoveKebab

no drone ever did that so why should bombers be any different ?



No drone can warp after targets like fighters. Why are fighters different?

Because fighters and fighter-bombers are not drones.

Wardo5
Posted - 2009.10.10 18:30:00 - [197]
 

Trying out caps and supercaps. Nice we have free ships but when you are testing things out on Consenting areas and have the ISO pull in his titan fleet and kill ya then message you and asks if its ok to blow you up AFTER your dead? 45 min working on a set up. Nice. Thanks. Thought there was Free for all areas for that?
fleet shoots you?
[ 2009.10.10 18:18:18 ] ISD BH CounterBlow > do you mind if my friendly titan fleet shoots you?
[ 2009.10.10 18:18:25 ] ISD BH CounterBlow > <3
[ 2009.10.10 18:18:56 ] ISD BH CounterBlow > oh sorry dude
[ 2009.10.10 18:19:02 ] ISD BH CounterBlow > theyre a bit impatient :(
[ 2009.10.10 18:21:05 ] Wardo5 > noticed
[ 2009.10.10 18:21:34 ] Wardo5 > thanks m8, another 45 min wasted
[ 2009.10.10 18:21:39 ] Wardo5 > cheers

Kaya Divine
Gallente
Kittens Factory
Posted - 2009.10.10 19:18:00 - [198]
 

Originally by: Wardo5
Trying out caps and supercaps. Nice we have free ships but when you are testing things out on Consenting areas and have the ISO pull in his titan fleet and kill ya then message you and asks if its ok to blow you up AFTER your dead? 45 min working on a set up. Nice. Thanks. Thought there was Free for all areas for that?
fleet shoots you?
[ 2009.10.10 18:18:18 ] ISD BH CounterBlow > do you mind if my friendly titan fleet shoots you?
[ 2009.10.10 18:18:25 ] ISD BH CounterBlow > <3
[ 2009.10.10 18:18:56 ] ISD BH CounterBlow > oh sorry dude
[ 2009.10.10 18:19:02 ] ISD BH CounterBlow > theyre a bit impatient :(
[ 2009.10.10 18:21:05 ] Wardo5 > noticed
[ 2009.10.10 18:21:34 ] Wardo5 > thanks m8, another 45 min wasted
[ 2009.10.10 18:21:39 ] Wardo5 > cheers



This days even my cat can become member of ISD.

Sig Sour
Posted - 2009.10.10 21:52:00 - [199]
 

Ive noticed a couple of ISD's acting like fools in this level 5 escapade.

I love the super carriers though!

Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.10 21:57:00 - [200]
 

Edited by: Adam Ridgway on 10/10/2009 21:58:13
So, finally, SISI became officially a playground instead of a test server. Terrible.

the teddybear
Posted - 2009.10.11 01:03:00 - [201]
 

only thing that needs changing on the cap ships is a bigger dronebay or a deditcted fighter and a dedicated fighterbomber bay along with 25000m3 conventual dronebay. and possibly a lower recharge rate on the capacitor.

Sneaky Sneakerson
Posted - 2009.10.11 01:39:00 - [202]
 

Perhaps has already been said by people but when I tested out the whole smartbomb vs fighter bomber issue I found the smartbombs don't stop much of the damage and barely hurt the fighter bombers themselves. So people worrying they'd essentially be useless have some hope.

Well, unless some caps are all bunched together smartbombing themselves+fighterbombers. That added affect might be a problem.

Major Hunt
Posted - 2009.10.11 07:08:00 - [203]
 

Edited by: Major Hunt on 11/10/2009 07:08:24
Serious attention is required to the drone bay sizes

NYX is the only supercarrier to be able to carry 20 bombers and 20 fighters, and leaves no room for vanila drones

All other super carriers cannot have a full set of each. With the NYX bunus to drone damage, it now becomes a no brainer to fly a NYX above all other races. At bare minimum all supercarriers should be able to carry a full set of fighters and bombers, or none should.

Please address this CCP. I think its a critical balance issue. Since these are supercarriers, 4km long with massive fighter bays to forfil thier primary function, i doubt the designers would overlook such a critcal flaw in the design Wink

Blueaise
Force Ratio
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.11 12:05:00 - [204]
 

Edited by: Blueaise on 11/10/2009 12:06:42
I think CCP's view is that a mom should either be focused on being a fighter carrier (defensive role) or bomber carrier (offensive role) or you should be forced to field a mix of 50/50 fighters/bombers + support drones.

As it stands FB's can kill a titan very quickly, and because (as stated on the titan thread) the titan has lol drone BW it has no defense other than SB's had they been fitted.

For balance if moms get FBs then titans should get defensive fighters, that can attack FB's within a certain range, then mom pilots would be forced to either commit a mixed force of both FBs and fighters to knock out the Defensive fighters, or mix the fleet with both defensive teams of fighters and offensive teams of FB's. if you look at RL airforce tactics you would not consider sending a fleet of bombers without a fighter escort as they are intentionally vunerable to fighters, so while Its a nice idea in principle that you should be allowed a full bay of FBs + fighters i think to stop it becoming a one size fits all pwn mobile CCP should sensibly force a MOM pilot to commit to a strategic decision about how they fit out their bay and for what purpose otherwise we just get spammed FBs then spammed Fighters from every mom.

As things stand the FB's do a silly amount of damage when swarmed so their needs to be some sort of trade off for that i.e the mom itself is more vunerable if it has no fighters of its own to fend off incoming bombers, if bombers are allowed to cause the sort of damage they do then they need to be as vunerable as RL bombers to other fighters and smartbombs (in the absense of anti-aircraft mods :) )


edit wrt to the nyx issue - i've not looked much at the other bonuses for racial moms, but it stands to reason that the nyx would have a better drone bay simply because its gallante and they are dedicated droneboat fielders, if CCP has given some racial bonus to other carriers then its fair that the gallente gets a boost to drone usage as thats what gallente is about

Litaney
Posted - 2009.10.11 12:37:00 - [205]
 

Edited by: Litaney on 11/10/2009 12:48:43
Edited by: Litaney on 11/10/2009 12:46:31
Edited by: Litaney on 11/10/2009 12:44:23
Heres an idea that I have been toying with about this now called "Super-carrier" or "Mothership" idea. This is along the lines of a carrier having atm one of two purposes...triage or combat support(fighters/RR/nuets/SB). Why not have a module that turns the S-carrier into in effect a small mobile pos. Fleet warps in, in the carriers "bubble" and it becomes a fight to take the shields down before any of the protected support ships can be targeted. This would nearly guarantee the use of these ships for fleet support and protection. This additional shield would regenerate but the module itself would use fuel like a triage or Siege. Limitations could be (to prevent deserters) no warping into or out of the bubble, like a HIC bubble. Once the shield has been pounded down the support is vulnerable...and make it size dependent say 5-10k...so 1 carrier with a tight fleet or the newly announced "Formations" could only fit 3 or 4 other cap ships in the bubble 100%...once passing in 100% a msg displays that your under protection and a warning if any part peeks out that you are now targetable. The effect would be similar in scope to a carrier with actual player fighters (inty/frig/cruisers) swarming around it, or a tight nit fleet of BS orbiting at 500 Everyone in the bubble being able to shoot out but till the bubble is down only the bubble is targetable.
This is coming from the RL idea of what a "carrier" is defined as, either something to "care-for" or "carry" many things. But the idea to me of 1 ship being a mobile base for a mass of player ships instead of just a bigger npc drone boat is appealing. And even a fitting target for a titan super wpn...like 1 shot 95% of the shield is gone. I dont think any 1 ship should own the field all by its onezy, but instead be dependent on your mates for support.

Anyways...just an idea run with it or drown it...just thought it was worth sharing
Lit

Oh and the 4 S-carriers all seem to fit in a station just perfectly, I think they should be allowed to dock as things are now, even if they have say an extended session change to undock or a docking timer, click dock, and a cute msg pops up saying "The docking tugs will be in place to tow you in, in [2:00] mins." or "[2:00] mins till docking maneuver complete, 'Cus you Huge!"

Blueaise
Force Ratio
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.11 12:52:00 - [206]
 

Edited by: Blueaise on 11/10/2009 12:52:32
I think the idea of mobile POS is what i have been arguing is the logical place of titans as the biggest ship in game, instead of being a giant gunboat it should act as a forward base of operations which is generally the role of a flagship in any armada.

I dont agree supercaps should be dockable ever - you can dock a carrier which is good enough, supercaps and titans should remain as a very elite alliance tool - docking them would lead to the sort of carnage you are seeing this weekend on sisi where every carebear industrialist trader can cough up 16bn to sit in a smartbombing nyx off a lowsec gate killing everything.

Moms have to remain as a strategic fleet role, if you have the isk for a SC then its not difficult to either train an alt to sit in it or buy one off character bazaar if you dont want to lose your main.

The purpose of not being "dockable" is important in that it encourages more teamwork in a fleet - just as real supercarriers can't just dock up every 5 minutes for supplies but need regular supply boats to bring ammo and fuel to them so moms encourage fleet members to do logistics to keep their SC's in drones, fuel and cake, making them more of a logistic headache where 1 SC needs at least 1 other fleet member in a orca/indy to supply it gives a new strategic problem to their usage that is important in fleet combat, for sure its a headache for solo players but then the whole cyno thing dictates that was never their role in the first place.

besides i think being stuck out in a belt, off a moon or endlessly floating about in your titan/SC is specific part of that gameplay. it gives you a much better sense that your ship is something out of the ordinary.


Pantorus Necraliss
Minmatar
Giza'Msafara
Posted - 2009.10.11 15:16:00 - [207]
 

Edited by: Pantorus Necraliss on 11/10/2009 15:35:56
Edited by: Pantorus Necraliss on 11/10/2009 15:23:58
Edited by: Pantorus Necraliss on 11/10/2009 15:21:37
Personnally :
1 - I realy think that SC still mustn't have the ability to dock but they realy need to become bigger. For moment they are ridiculous, same side as carrier ?!? Shocked

2 - Bombers are doing too much damage, carrier and dread explose too fast

3 - I'm affraid that big alliance use large number of SC to destroy POS (by this : destroying docked systems defence ships) and easily crush other holders.

They will easily corrupt the primary use of SC, as they've done with Titans, to attack structures and not only carrier-size ship...ugh

--> highly raise structure's heal, highly raise dread's damage (especially the Naglfar, skill need/damage done completely unbalanced; maybe give him a 7.5% bonus to missile damage), lower dread's tracking speed for they can touch only non-moving targets


Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Frontier Venture
Posted - 2009.10.11 15:22:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: Major Hunt
Edited by: Major Hunt on 11/10/2009 07:08:24
Serious attention is required to the drone bay sizes

NYX is the only supercarrier to be able to carry 20 bombers and 20 fighters, and leaves no room for vanila drones

All other super carriers cannot have a full set of each. With the NYX bunus to drone damage, it now becomes a no brainer to fly a NYX above all other races. At bare minimum all supercarriers should be able to carry a full set of fighters and bombers, or none should.

Please address this CCP. I think its a critical balance issue. Since these are supercarriers, 4km long with massive fighter bays to forfil thier primary function, i doubt the designers would overlook such a critcal flaw in the design Wink


Eh, I disagree. The Gallente one should have the best drone bay. (IE, the whole reason the race exists...) Besides, CCP never stated that Supercarriers were supposed to hold a whole flight of fighters and fighter bombers at the same time. The fact that your trying means nothing tbh. It might mean you'll have to think ahead before going into battle.

--Isaac

Ahz
Posted - 2009.10.11 15:57:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Originally by: Major Hunt
Edited by: Major Hunt on 11/10/2009 07:08:24
Serious attention is required to the drone bay sizes

NYX is the only supercarrier to be able to carry 20 bombers and 20 fighters, and leaves no room for vanila drones

All other super carriers cannot have a full set of each. With the NYX bunus to drone damage, it now becomes a no brainer to fly a NYX above all other races. At bare minimum all supercarriers should be able to carry a full set of fighters and bombers, or none should.

Please address this CCP. I think its a critical balance issue. Since these are supercarriers, 4km long with massive fighter bays to forfil thier primary function, i doubt the designers would overlook such a critcal flaw in the design Wink


Eh, I disagree. The Gallente one should have the best drone bay. (IE, the whole reason the race exists...) Besides, CCP never stated that Supercarriers were supposed to hold a whole flight of fighters and fighter bombers at the same time. The fact that your trying means nothing tbh. It might mean you'll have to think ahead before going into battle.

--Isaac
Full set isn't 20, it's actually 25 (5x drone control units)

I was able to get 25 bombers into a Hel with room for only 7 regular fighters. There was a little space left over for about 60 ogres, hammerheads and hobgoblins each.

I don't know if the mothership (now supercarrier) drone bay has been expanded but I think this needs attention. They just gained a new drone class and they take up a lot of space.

Agent Unknown
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.11 17:09:00 - [210]
 

I'd say that fighter bombers are a bit unbalanced...heck, using a single Avatar and Nyx against a large POS was able to take it down in the same time it takes for a fleet of dreads to do it. Firing off the doomsday of course, but...just a single mom and titan wouldn't be a normal sight on TQ; you'd have more.

Titans can also not tank fighter bombers from ONE Nyx; I had a dual repper setup on my Avatar and it was able to easily eat through its rep cycles. Of course, there would be support for this titan (triage carriers and such), but since bombers don't take long to kill carriers, it could become an issue.


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