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LoveKebab
Caldari
LOST IDEA
C0VEN
Posted - 2009.09.22 14:23:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Ethan Hunte
alot of people dont want them in the first place because they cant dock.

your just a traditional eve player doing another traditional thing just for the sake of it.

your one of the people who loves endless pos warfare and can't see anything wrong with it because you have no life outside of eve.


ok, ability to dock for removing immunity to EW ?

Hull Blaster
Gallente
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Cult of War
Posted - 2009.09.22 14:37:00 - [122]
 

I could live with that... but reduce the cost dramatically, otherwise NO ONE will fly a 15bil isk cap if it can be jammed by a 100k isk t1 frigate!

If you want to do that reduce the cost to like 6bil.

LoveKebab
Caldari
LOST IDEA
C0VEN
Posted - 2009.09.22 14:47:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: LoveKebab on 22/09/2009 14:48:38

lol not rly m8 :) not 6bil, never...
ships already gonna cost less cuz of built cost cut by 10% - so it will be around 10-11bil to build one

Hull Blaster
Gallente
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Cult of War
Posted - 2009.09.22 14:58:00 - [124]
 

Well maybe that was being a bit OTT, 9billion would be better :).

I still think they should be able to dock though, there is no reason for them not being able to dock. The Archon is only a normal carrier, and that has a longer axis than a Nyx! If they also go ahead with the removal of clone vat bays, then I don't think they can be considered a true "super cap".

Titans are super caps... gal titan has a 15km axis... a weeee bit bigger!

Arramis
Minmatar
ROMANIA Renegades
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2009.09.22 15:40:00 - [125]
 

Edited by: Arramis on 22/09/2009 16:44:50
With "supercarriers" are more problems that it seems. I`ll try to split them in 2 major.
From the viewpoint of a an everyday player (with an actual life and eve as a evening/weekend hobby).

1. Economical part.
1.a. The ship is too expensive to be fielded in an normal fleet fight, where numbers as we know are at least over 100 caps for both sides, even for big alliances, the cost is the foundation for the rest of argumentations. Allways will be "better 10 dreads and carriers" then a supercarrier and i don`t need to explain why.
1.b. It takes ****loads of time for building/gathering materials for it.. that means 2 times failure (1 the cost in ISK and 2 the cost in TIME).
.....and all of this for no actual advantages. On sisi...it takes at least 15 minutes for 1 supercarrier ..to take down 1 sieged dread, fleet fitted and with no bonuses from implants or boosters. Now tell me would you field 1,2, 10 MS when you know that you`re primaryed in a cap fleet fight?!I won`t.

2. Ethical part.
Why should I pay one more account just to fly an expensive ship(it aplies to titans too)? I don`t remember reading in EULA that heaving/flying an expensive item/ship would require another 14 E/mounth.

Solutions?
1. Solve the ethical part first to give an example of common sence.
2. Give bonuses to supercaps to justify their cost in time and money becouse there is allways anything about eve but ballance. (titan has a great logistical role but in an actual fight bonuses does not justify his price.

Excuse my english, is not my mother language.

Xing Fey
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:08:00 - [126]
 

Edited by: Xing Fey on 22/09/2009 17:10:11
Originally by: Hull Blaster
I could live with that... but reduce the cost dramatically, otherwise NO ONE will fly a 15bil isk cap if it can be jammed by a 100k isk t1 frigate!

If you want to do that reduce the cost to like 6bil.


Of course, it can launch 20 warrior IIs and shret the frig in no-time flat.

Though I wouldn't be entirely averse to giving it +2 warp core strength if it got docking and lost ewar immunity...


Also it would be nice to give titans + superCs a flat +% bonus to rep/shield boost amount. To cut down on the ludicrous rep times if nothing else.



King Dave
Raven Dynamics
Posted - 2009.09.22 17:17:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Xing Fey
Also it would be nice to give titans + superCs a flat +% bonus to rep/shield boost amount. To cut down on the ludicrous rep times if nothing else.




Maybe a boost to the carrier skill. So at level 5 it does the same amount of repair as what triage made it do beforehand, wihtout the added cap consumption.

Goodbye Horses
Posted - 2009.09.22 19:21:00 - [128]
 

As per the new DD vs everyones precious supercaps, would a new module be out of the scope?

Something along the lines of a "High energy deflection array", reducing DD damage by so much % per module, maybe high slot, Capital sized.

xttz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.22 23:53:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Kraken Kill
The Super Carrier should not be able to dock, its a Super Capital all the same and one of the burdens of such a ship is that you are tied into it

True. However there is a workable compromise.

Introduce a 'Shipyard' outpost upgrade. This allows supercapitals to interact with an outpost in the same manner as a starbase by sitting in docking range. They can drag items to/from the corp hangar, refit their ship, perhaps even transfer corp clones from the station into their clone vat bay.
This removes alot of the tedium from resupplying supercaps and introduces opportunities to gank the dumber ones.

Originally by: Kraken Kill
...its just pretty crazy the HP that the Booster cannot repair ... thats going to take roughly 50minutes to repair the armor.

I think you missed the point of supercaps somewhat. They're not intended to be solo vessels. You don't spend an hour repairing a mothership or titan yourself, you get allied carriers and other support ships to help. The HP is there as a buffer so that its less efficient to primary supercaps in large fights, not so they can take on whole fleets solo.

Originally by: Kraken Kill
the ECM burst- can it be changed so you cant instantly lock a target again? No point breaking a Hics lock for it to have locked you in half a second again.- The Cap use of this Mod is INSANE- so trying to run your shield booster at the same time is madness
The ECM burst needs some polish.
Personally I like the idea of scripts for some flexibility. Make it capable of permajamming a single target, or bursting an area with a lower strength.
The related skill is somewhat broken as well - it currently affects activation time reducing it from 20 to 15 seconds. Ideally it should be reducing the cooldown. Five minutes is a little excessive for something that is currently only a minor annoyance to an enemy.

HoshinoRuri
Playboy Enterprises
Posted - 2009.09.23 00:05:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: HoshinoRuri on 23/09/2009 00:24:12
The ECM burst does need modified, and I would say that super carriers be allowed to dock to outposts only but only if the corresponding outpost had an add on possibly called a capital shipyard, but this add on would also allow the alliance that controls it to build super caps there, that would solve one of the issues with the docking. Also the FB's need tweaked i killed them with my Sb's on my carrier against a buddies way way too fast for it to be a viable Capital ship weapon.
I would be interested in the findings of the tests so far and with this weeks test on Friday it should have some more data for us.

Soleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.09.23 00:07:00 - [131]
 

Abathur or other CCP:

Any thoughts so far on what you saw with supercarriers with testing or from feedback in this thread?

Thanks

Mara Intala
Posted - 2009.09.23 07:49:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: Mara Intala on 23/09/2009 07:51:15
I like the idea of letting Super Caps anchor at a pos. More so than letting them dock, that way there is still a bit of danger involved with having one but you are not stuck in it like some trapped rat.

Maybe something like a pos module?

Super capital Anchoring Array
0 CPU
1,500,000 Power Grid
1 XXL Docking Clip (Titan)
2 XL Docking Clips (Super Carrier)
1,000,000,000.00 isk base price
Anchoring IV to place it.

Acts like a Maintenance Array and links to the Corp hanger array so you can fuel and fit wile its anchored.

Your ship anchors inside the shield and can only be placed at a large pos.
When you anchor your super cap you are able to eject and the ship will not move. you can also Lock the ship by entering a password. In order to board a locked ship you would need to enter the password.

If the pos in destroyed with a super cap anchored at it. the anchoring array will go to a backup generator that will last 36 hours in which time the ships remain anchored, but after that time runs out the array goes offline and the anchored ships are unanchored and unlocked, free to be taken by anyone.

Just an idea, but there really should be some way to let super caps be ejected from with out any joe blow being able to come along in a BS and bump it out of the shields.

Edit* If the Anchoring Array is destroyed, it will self destruct the anchored ships. making the attacking forces require to protect the ships if they wish to take them.

Ethan Hunte
Ninjas With Frikkin StarShips
Posted - 2009.09.23 17:02:00 - [133]
 

maybe ccp should clarify how in their eyes they want super carriers to be used, instead of us endlessly quarelling over their implementation. Cause in the end it is all for nought if it isnt in line with how they see it.

Does CCP see super carriers as an alliance only weapon fielded by the richest alliances in number so large that they dont fall prey so easily? Or that the cost to focus on destroying them during a fleet fight bleeds more of your own losses?

People say it is too expensive to want to field in any worthwhile battle with 100 enemy caps on field. Given, but too expensive for whom? 99% of individual players but not alliances.

One some current alliance budgets they could afford to buy like 5 motherships a month being realistic and with sov poses in the hundreds becoming a thing of the past soon, they could devote even more to super cap production, so much so that they would run out of properly skilled pilots to fly super carriers.

If for every super carrier you lose, you could destroy 50 dreads it would be worth it for an alliance to field them because they can replace the super carrier at will. I am sure pandemic legion alone has something like 20 trillion in their account by now.

They could field a devastating fleet of remote repping GODLY super carrier frontlined godliness.

Imagine this if you will. 50-100 super carriers 600 billion to 1.2 trillion roughly. Backed by 100 carriers in triage mode? The triage sit behind repping the hell out of the motherships and the motherships are up front destroying the enemy dread fleet with fighter bombers.

Tell me who could counter that? And dont say its impossible, if I had that ask (which I know PL does) Id invest it now in 50 of my best mothership pilots. Get them equip them, and go to town. IT would be like a Roman Legion. And carriers? cheap replaceable loses for alliances nothing more than an insured battleship. And if you focus on carriers in triage mode? Your dread fleet is decimated in the mean time before you probably even burn through all those replacable carriers.

Wow I went off, but anyway, clearly you see super carriers have a use in numbers and are useful to those that can replace them. Alliances.
So when we talk of survivability, we can't include the person who can barely afford one and therefore does not want to ever lose it and therefore will not put it on the front line. And there is no way it can be buffed enough without being way overpowered in any other instance (such as described above) which would allow the inidivudual supercarrier owner to be convinced to field it on the front line.

Hull Blaster
Gallente
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Cult of War
Posted - 2009.09.23 17:11:00 - [134]
 

Ethan are you saying that the days of Dread blobs are over YARRRR!!

Gavin Darklighter
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.09.23 22:22:00 - [135]
 

Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 23/09/2009 22:30:56
The problem I have with the new supercarriers and titans is that they are now hands-down the strongest front-line ships you can have in a cap fight. This is in contrast to how things are right now on TQ where Titans are great for blowing up support fleets but must then hide in a POS shield while the real fighting takes place. Having more than half a dozen titans in fleet doesn't really add much more capability than just having a couple of them (unless you hit the magic number of ~40 and could doomsday cap fleets, but no one ever accomplished that feat)

Basiclly as it is now, a dread is more effective in a cap fight than any supercap is, but come Dominion CCP is going to make the supercaps front-line killing machines that are FAR more effective than any dread or carrier will be. I think a lot more people are going to invest the time and resources to fly them since they are now of real use when deployed in numbers.

Wait until we start seeing alliances fielding 20-30+ Aeons or Wyverns fit for massive resists and six remote reps each. Some might say fits like that aren't possible, but they are, and they don't require officer cap rechargers either. It does require an Avatar, CC8/CR8 implants, and maybe some mindflood, but thats not all that much honestly. Six capital remote reps per ship is quite a bit of tank

And don't forget that even if the dread fleet can out dps the tank, the supercarriers still have massive hp, and will likely be able to warp out at will when their buffer starts to get worn down. Just holding a tackle on one of the supercarriers will require a herculean effort from a support fleet. Dreads on the other hand tackle themselves for 15 minutes every time they go into siege.

Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
Posted - 2009.09.23 23:31:00 - [136]
 

Maybe capital ships would be better if none were capable of being built in stations and docked in stations (including freighters/jump freighters although they could be built and stored in high sec).

Build them all in space with an achorable anywhere construction platform and watch them being slowly constructed over time. Get rid of the Capital Shipyards to store them and just put a Capital/Supercapital docking platform to attach them to (literally) while no-one is piloting them. Stations may be a bit too big flavour wise to build and keep them anyway.

Ethan Hunte
Ninjas With Frikkin StarShips
Posted - 2009.09.24 12:49:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 23/09/2009 22:30:56
The problem I have with the new supercarriers and titans is that they are now hands-down the strongest front-line ships you can have in a cap fight. This is in contrast to how things are right now on TQ where Titans are great for blowing up support fleets but must then hide in a POS shield while the real fighting takes place. Having more than half a dozen titans in fleet doesn't really add much more capability than just having a couple of them (unless you hit the magic number of ~40 and could doomsday cap fleets, but no one ever accomplished that feat)

Basiclly as it is now, a dread is more effective in a cap fight than any supercap is, but come Dominion CCP is going to make the supercaps front-line killing machines that are FAR more effective than any dread or carrier will be. I think a lot more people are going to invest the time and resources to fly them since they are now of real use when deployed in numbers.

Wait until we start seeing alliances fielding 20-30+ Aeons or Wyverns fit for massive resists and six remote reps each. Some might say fits like that aren't possible, but they are, and they don't require officer cap rechargers either. It does require an Avatar, CC8/CR8 implants, and maybe some mindflood, but thats not all that much honestly. Six capital remote reps per ship is quite a bit of tank

And don't forget that even if the dread fleet can out dps the tank, the supercarriers still have massive hp, and will likely be able to warp out at will when their buffer starts to get worn down. Just holding a tackle on one of the supercarriers will require a herculean effort from a support fleet. Dreads on the other hand tackle themselves for 15 minutes every time they go into siege.


and like I said no alliance is going to field those 20-30 moms without the support fleet. 50 carriers or more. WHo have the option to go into triage if there normal repping isnt enough.

no node in this game can hold the amount of ships required to break a new super carrier tank with 50 triage carriers repping it.

LordInvisible
Gallente
Nova Ardour
Posted - 2009.09.24 14:31:00 - [138]
 

CCPs changes are only forcing players to blob more..

Titans DD was introduced to be anti-blob tool..They started to blob with anti-blob tool.

Now they will blob even more with titans, insta poping carriers and dreads with 3-4 titans isnt that bad..

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.09.24 16:13:00 - [139]
 

Currently the commandships get a 3% role increase for their specific mods, strategic cruisers 5%

Motherships coul get a bonus of 5% or somethin around that, carriers maybe 3% to underline their bonuses and making it worthwwhile fitting these mods on carriers.

John Zorg
Caldari
The Damned Legion
Posted - 2009.09.25 08:22:00 - [140]
 

Edited by: John Zorg on 25/09/2009 08:43:36
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
Currently the commandships get a 3% role increase for their specific mods, strategic cruisers 5%

Motherships coul get a bonus of 5% or somethin around that, carriers maybe 3% to underline their bonuses and making it worthwwhile fitting these mods on carriers.


Or... give supercarriers the 7.5% bonus to warfare links like the Titans have a 7.5% bonus to their respective races benifits.

That is one thing I always wanted to see was a bonus like that for the moms. We all agree that the clone vat bay was pretty useless, why couldn't it allow for rapid clone jumps so large fleets can be moved around. Ship maintenence bay would also need to be increased in size or a new Logistics Hanger that is linked to a clone?

I quote from another thread : http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1023003&page=2#55

Originally by: xttx

Clone Vat rebalancing:

1) Allow fleet members to alter and upgrade their medical clones when next to a ship fitted with a clone vat bay. This does not allow them to store medical clones in the ship, just change which station they are in and uprgade clone coverage. There should be some indication like an alternative icon in fleet to let fleet members know which ships have useable clone vats for this purpose.

2) Allow alliance members to remotely install clones into a ship in the same fleet. To do this the ship must have an active clone vat bay, and the character wanting to clone jump should be docked in an outpost owned by that alliance. This would provide a mechanic for alliances to bring reinforcements back to a hostile system easily.

3) Allow fleet members to clone jump back to a station jump clone when in a capsule next to an active clone vat bay. When using this mechanic the character performing the jump would have the option of storing their current jump clone back into the capital ship, or simply discarding it. This allows clone vat bays to hold clones containing implants too.

4) Reduce or eliminate clone jump period when done via clone vat bay.

To support this change I'd like to see three further changes:

Firstly mothership and titan SMA size should be doubled to allow for more spare ships to support the fleet.



Also, I liked the following ideas:

- Bonus to repp amount for Super caps
- Immunity for super caps from the Titans super weapon
- Increase the orbit range of FBs to avoid smart bombs :<

I have been wanting an Aeon for a looooong time, glad to see CCP is finally reworking the ships.

Just throwing it out there :D

Amy Wang
Posted - 2009.09.25 12:55:00 - [141]
 

Imho Supercarriers are underpowered vs Titans. Why? Lets compare their abilities.

1. offensive capabilities:


On the SC we get 10k dps (12.5k on Nyx), this dps has a long travel time and can be shot down (and even easily smartbombed currently but that is getting changed hopefully), to apply the dps the ship needs to be on grid and in the line of fire all the time
the only unique combat ability, the ecm burst is widely regarded as useless

vs

10k dps on the Titan from the doomsday alone plus at least another 10k dps from turrets (mainly also without travel time with the exception of the Leviathan), out of this the doomsday dps can be applied in a "drive by" way with the titan being exposed only for a limited amount of time (30sec immobility plus whatver time it takes to get into warp from there), so using the titans dps is far safer


2. defensive capabilities:

Effective hitpoint wise the titan is a bit ahead with the exception of Wyvern and Aeon wich are almost on par, yet the supercarrier has to be exposed to fire all the time to do its job while the titan can do a good chunk of its job being only temporarily exposed or not exposed at all (see below)


3. logistical and command capabilities

The Titan has two absolutely unique abilities both of which it can use away from the frontline: the jump bridge and the special 37.5% command bonus (armor, shield, cap, sig), these abilities are not only unique but also very powerful (with the exception of the sig one, which is a bit meh in comparioson), in fact the jump bridge will become even more powerful then it is now with the proposed sov changes and the reduction of cyno jammed systems it will likely bring.

The supercarrier on the other hand shares its logistical abilities with carriers and various other ships, nothing unique here, just a bit bigger (in fact the ship hangar is too small even as it never received the 100% size boost the carriers did a while ago) and titans also have the very same abilities on top of everything else anyway with the exception of the remote repair bonus which, again, a single carrier can do just as good.


4. conclusion

With no logistical abilities to write home about the Supercarrier is clearly an all-out warship whereas the titan is some kind of warship/logistic/commandship mix, yet it is in all these areas superior to the supercarrier, even the pure combat role

Sure, the titan is more expensive then the supercarrier but it is so much more powerful in various roles that the price difference cant justify it any more imho.

What is needed is either a boost to the warship role of the Supercarrier or a boost of its logistical/supporting abilities, but that seems to be the opposite of what is being aimed at by CCP

Maybe fixing/improving the ecm burst would be a good start, although not nearly enough.

Enraged Mado
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.25 14:25:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: Enraged Mado on 25/09/2009 14:42:45
Originally by: Kraken Kill

The Super Carrier should not be able to dock.

30mins to repair your shields.

50minutes to repair the armor.

Fighterbombers. Its Being able to smartbomb these torps they fire is pretty crap.

the ECM burst- can it be changed so you cant instantly lock a target again?

I do Support the Idea that Lvl 5 Cal on a Super Carrier = lvl 4 Cal on a Dread.
Also Fighters 5 insted of 4 for the bombers also sounds good, less noobs in these ships.

Also Make The Model for ALL SUPER CARRIER'S Far larger. They are stupid small atm.

Originally by: Mara Intala

Thanatos. 2,300 Meters long. Can Dock.
Archon. 3,300 Meters long. Can dock.
Nyx. >>3,250<< Meters Long. Can't dock.
Hel >>4,000<< Meters Long. Can't dock.



Edit: Added numbers quoted from before to emphasise 4th point.

Cut some out and fixed some but hit the right ideas from my (Nyx) POV...

-Capital Rep's (armor and shield) need fixing for Super Caps.
-Fighter-bomber's needs fixing against smartbombs.
-Super Cap jump range needs increasing.
-PLEASE increase the visual size of Super Carrier's. They SHOULD NOT be dockable.

Sieur NewT
Gallente
X-pell
Posted - 2009.09.25 15:24:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Neige
Allow SC to dock !

They are not mommy's anymore so there is no reason they can't dock, the're not so big ! You must have a charater just to park it it's spimle crazy for Carrier tiers 2

And the reduction of cost is not enought just maybe 1B so you pay you SC 14B intead of 15B :/ immagine you wine 1B per week (and i'm very far of this ), you need 3 or 4 month to get it and not buying anything else and nned the fit too it's too big for normal alliance who don't win 300b per month with r64
Why loosing 14 B on one battle ? but with carrier you just lost 800M and buy many more for other battles. The price is very expensive for the capabilities of the ship

And others thing i'm wondering

the be called now Super Carrier but one thing is actually an heresie for me
they jump less far than a simple carrier not the same or better but less far so the don't are so "super" than carriers


i agree at 150% with that. :)

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.25 15:24:00 - [144]
 

Oh no, not my Eve realism!

MY IMMERSION

Gavin Darklighter
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.09.25 18:29:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Amy Wang
Imho Supercarriers are underpowered vs Titans. Why? Lets compare their abilities.

1. offensive capabilities:


On the SC we get 10k dps (12.5k on Nyx), this dps has a long travel time and can be shot down (and even easily smartbombed currently but that is getting changed hopefully), to apply the dps the ship needs to be on grid and in the line of fire all the time
the only unique combat ability, the ecm burst is widely regarded as useless

vs

10k dps on the Titan from the doomsday alone plus at least another 10k dps from turrets (mainly also without travel time with the exception of the Leviathan), out of this the doomsday dps can be applied in a "drive by" way with the titan being exposed only for a limited amount of time (30sec immobility plus whatver time it takes to get into warp from there), so using the titans dps is far safer



The doomsday immobilizes the titan for the full 5 minute cycle time. If you shoot it you are stuck until it is ready to shoot again. Fighters on the other hand can be assigned and operated remotely from off-grid while the supercarrier sits just outside a POS shield, so the exact opposite of what you are trying to say is true. I have no idea if fighter-bombers will have the same functionality, but I would be suprised to learn that they do not.


Originally by: Amy Wang

2. defensive capabilities:

Effective hitpoint wise the titan is a bit ahead with the exception of Wyvern and Aeon wich are almost on par, yet the supercarrier has to be exposed to fire all the time to do its job while the titan can do a good chunk of its job being only temporarily exposed or not exposed at all (see below)



The Aeon and Wyvern with their resist bonuses will have MORE eHP than a titan will. But that extra eHP over an Avatar/Leviathan is absolutely NOTHING compared to the remote spider-tanking capability that the super-carriers offer. With a not-too-expensive fit and an Avatar giving a cap bonus an Aeon will be able to fit massive resists and six perma-running remote armor repairers. The net effect of this is that a spider-tanking Aeon fleet will tank around 30k dps for every Aeon beyond the one getting shot. 20 Aeons will tank something like 600k dps. If you don't see the utility of that you are blind.


Originally by: Amy Wang

3. logistical and command capabilities

The Titan has two absolutely unique abilities both of which it can use away from the frontline: the jump bridge and the special 37.5% command bonus (armor, shield, cap, sig), these abilities are not only unique but also very powerful (with the exception of the sig one, which is a bit meh in comparioson), in fact the jump bridge will become even more powerful then it is now with the proposed sov changes and the reduction of cyno jammed systems it will likely bring.


4. conclusion

With no logistical abilities to write home about the Supercarrier is clearly an all-out warship whereas the titan is some kind of warship/logistic/commandship mix, yet it is in all these areas superior to the supercarrier, even the pure combat role

Sure, the titan is more expensive then the supercarrier but it is so much more powerful in various roles that the price difference cant justify it any more imho.

What is needed is either a boost to the warship role of the Supercarrier or a boost of its logistical/supporting abilities, but that seems to be the opposite of what is being aimed at by CCP

Maybe fixing/improving the ecm burst would be a good start, although not nearly enough.



The Titan also has build requirements that are serveral times that of a supercarrier, so one would expect some additional capability for that price. Personaly the way I see it, the super-carrier will be the super-cap ship-of-the-line choice while titans get mixed in for extra DPS and the cap/armor/shield bonuses.

Soleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.09.25 20:21:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 25/09/2009 20:38:32

Gavin, fighter bombers will not be able to be assigned once it hits live.

Also, Aeons with 6 perma reps? Get real. An Aeon would have to use CCC rigs, 4 cap recharger IIs, and 5 cap power relays to be cap stable. That leaves them with crap for resistances and crap EHP compared to the buffer tank they're capable of. It also means they won't be using any smartbombs, projected ECCM, DCUs, cloaks, etc. Highly doubtful. Even with the avatar bonus they'll still have to sacrifice a lot of HP or resistances.

Super carriers will now be buffer tanked. That means 3x trimarks (or shield rigs), and lots of hardeners. Neither myself or the other supercarrier pilots I've talked to are planning on setting up for the massive spider tank you're describing. At best, SC's will be using 1 or 2 reps. For spider tanking carriers will be providing the spider tank w/ triage, and even that's debatable given the training reqs for triage and pilots being unwilling to activate that suicide module in a cap fight.

Mc Leech
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2009.09.25 21:20:00 - [147]
 

There is a very big issue I dont see being addressed in this patch, if supercarriers become popular what happens to lag in capital battles? Even 20 super carriers = 400 drones thats more lag than any number of titans ever produced.

There needs to be a change that makes carriers and super carriers have bigger and more damaging drones but not more of them. Just give carriers a bonus +100% drone damage and HP and allow them to use only 5 at a time. Same with supper carriers only +300% damage and HP so its equal to 20 drones but only 5 of them will be in space.

Battle Tested
Shiva
Posted - 2009.09.25 22:29:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Mc Leech
There is a very big issue I dont see being addressed in this patch, if supercarriers become popular what happens to lag in capital battles? Even 20 super carriers = 400 drones thats more lag than any number of titans ever produced.

There needs to be a change that makes carriers and super carriers have bigger and more damaging drones but not more of them. Just give carriers a bonus +100% drone damage and HP and allow them to use only 5 at a time. Same with supper carriers only +300% damage and HP so its equal to 20 drones but only 5 of them will be in space.


There's a large problem with this suggestion....you could delegate a carrier's or supercarrier's full dps to a single interceptor pilot...too overpowered

Mc Leech
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2009.09.25 23:18:00 - [149]
 

Chould do same to drones as they did to turrets and simply group them, say up to 5 drones will = 1 drone swarm. You will only see the swarm and not individual drones. The swarm will have the HP and DPS of all the drones in it. Than carriers will have 2 swarms and supercarrier 4. This way people will only see 20% of all the drones in space and that will reduce the lag by a lot. You will deligate them in swarms too 1 swarm per ship. Would work just like turret grouping.

Lots of drones in space create way too much lag and if there will be fleets of supercarriers... Its already really bad when you have fleets of carriers as it is.

Aaron Mirrorsaver
The Scope
Posted - 2009.09.26 01:50:00 - [150]
 

if 400 drones cause lag, then ccp network engineers need a new job.

and u can disable drone models now too.


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