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iudex
Posted - 2009.09.16 10:18:00 - [31]
 

Don't know what to say ... I usually use only Caldari ships (roleplaying a bit), but I trained Gallente BS to 5 for the only purpose to be able to use the Moros as a drone ship. Trained heavy drones to 5 as well for this (Caldari BS don't use heavy drones).
In 6 days the skill Gallente Dreadnought will be at 5 ... but now it's all wasted.

It's nothing new that the Moros has all that anti-subcapital abilities, why didn't they change it 3 years ago ? Instead now they upset all that people that trained for the Moros because of it's drone role ... no more fun at stations, that's just sad.

Merbusent
Posted - 2009.09.16 10:27:00 - [32]
 

Looks like the shineing to Gallente is over so pack ure bags and move on to something else YARRRR!!

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2009.09.16 10:46:00 - [33]
 

Dreads primary function is to destroy structures and other capitals, the change has absolutely no effect on this.

What it does affect is pirate/station Moros used to kill sub-capitals while itself being untouchable due to hitpoints. In essense a low-sec Moros nerf.
Bumping is hard as hell and on some stations down right impossible to not an option.

A long overdue change as far as I am concerned.

What was taken is given. Triage cycle being halved will be an enormous boost to low-sec gate fights. Enough time to make a difference but short enough to avoid most unplanned (or they scheduled these days Laughing) hotdrops

Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.09.16 10:52:00 - [34]
 

Well, it only took 10 pages to drag out of the dev that there are more issues with dreads that they want to look at than removing the main reason to fly the Moros. There may be hope yet!

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2009.09.16 11:04:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: iudex
no more immunity at stations, that's just sad.
FYP

Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
Posted - 2009.09.16 11:08:00 - [36]
 

This nerf has been a long time comin', and it is most deserved. Moros will still be best (and very efficient) against smaller ships, which it really doesn't deserve to be because that is not the dreadnoughts' role and no other dread can do it, now it just needs to be in siege. I'm sure the station games were fun for those of you who weren't prepared to risk something to gain something, but alas balancing has finally caught up.

Wideen
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.09.16 11:18:00 - [37]
 

I don't see how this is a problem.

the moros will still have the advantage over other dreads of killing smaller ships (from frigates to bs) quickly with a neigh over-powered drone bonus, now it just has to commit to the fight before doing so. That it can do so in siege is however acceptable imo


Dristra
Amarr
Idle Haven
Posted - 2009.09.16 11:33:00 - [38]
 

I feel that this change to the moros is sort of unfair, would be better to buff the performance of the other dreads vs small targets than handicap it like this.

At least give it the 10% per level that all drone boats have.

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Posted - 2009.09.16 11:43:00 - [39]
 

If they want to be "fair" then they should remove the unseiged bonuses from all the other Dreads too...

It makes absolutely no sense just to single out Gallente removing half their bonuses unseiged while other races still have their 2 bonuses.

Its a nerf for the sake of nerfing, since how many people actually whine about the unseiged 50% drone damage bonus? I've never seen any. Just plain daft.

Aranis Nax
Minmatar
Minmatar United Freedom Front
The 11th Hour
Posted - 2009.09.16 12:00:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: CCP, think of me before you break my sploithammer!
If you lose your ship to Ogre II's you are an idiot. Heavy drones are rediculously slow. Why would you be at 0 on a moros anyway..
I'm sure you can think of/have been in situations where target was at 0 and died before he could say:

GAME OVER
MOROSDUDE


Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
Posted - 2009.09.16 12:07:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
If they want to be "fair" then they should remove the unseiged bonuses from all the other Dreads too...

It makes absolutely no sense just to single out Gallente removing half their bonuses unseiged while other races still have their 2 bonuses.

Its a nerf for the sake of nerfing, since how many people actually whine about the unseiged 50% drone damage bonus? I've never seen any. Just plain daft.


The other dreads' bonuses apply to their CAPITAL weapons which are USELESS out of siege. So all those bonuses are indeed USELESS out of siege. The Moros' drone bonus was the only one that wasn't.

And since when is the number of people whining about any given subject any indication of actual game imbalance? To argue that Moros was fine on the basis of personally witnessed whining frequency is about as weak an argument as it gets.



Ad Valorem
Minmatar
Industrial Mite
Posted - 2009.09.16 12:43:00 - [42]
 



Seriously who thought CCP would release a patch without the traditional Gallente nerf?

What was the last expansion where Gallente didn't get a nerf? 1980?

Hahahhaaaaahahaahaaa! Laughing


fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
Posted - 2009.09.16 13:32:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Geminimixer
If you lose your ship to Ogre II's you are an idiot. Heavy drones are rediculously slow. Why would you be at 0 on a moros anyway..


Ah, so everyone who gets killed by a Dominix or ishtar is an idiot, good to know

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.16 13:51:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Wideen
I don't see how this is a problem.

the moros will still have the advantage over other dreads of killing smaller ships (from frigates to bs) quickly with a neigh over-powered drone bonus, now it just has to commit to the fight before doing so. That it can do so in siege is however acceptable imo
The problem — in fact, the only problem with this change — is that in siege, it will take roughly 93 years (give or take) for a Moros to lock onto a subcap…

Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
Posted - 2009.09.16 15:01:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Tippia
it will take roughly 93 years


plus the limitations on number of locked targets in siege. Considering the tower is target #1, if you're in a small ship that is locked by a moros in siege just warp on grid. You'd have to be nearly afk to get locked and shot at.

Levistus Junior
Caldari
Trojan Trolls
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2009.09.16 15:08:00 - [46]
 

In my opinion the reaction to this nerf is more of a psychological nature.

The loss of drone bonus out of siege hasn't affected Moros's performance as a fleet dread in any significant way. and this performace isn't stellar: it has less tank and DPS than both Naglfar and Revelation.

But having huge drone damage bonus outside siege gave the Moros a niche, a place where it was best, even if it was just for fun and/or pretty situational. (had my fair share of cap fights and can't remember any occurence when something important was achieved by unsieged Moroses shooting support).

With that gone, people are a lot more prone to notice the shortcomings that were always there.

My alt can fly a Thanny and was training for the Moros, so I can only hope they will look more carefully at balancing the Moros vs. the other dreads when it comes to DPS in siege.

Just my 2 cents.

Gidgiddoni
Posted - 2009.09.16 15:12:00 - [47]
 

fear not, they are ( maybe ) lowering the time in and out of siege for dreads....

so yes, u it will make moros on stations easier to kill if they siege, but on the flip side they will still be able to wreck absolute havoc if they are used smartly.

its a decent balance

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.16 15:18:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Tippia
it will take roughly 93 years
plus the limitations on number of locked targets in siege. Considering the tower is target #1, if you're in a small ship that is locked by a moros in siege just warp on grid. You'd have to be nearly afk to get locked and shot at.
Ok, the only two things… Razz

…and anyway, the target limitation wouldn't be that much of a limitation if the locking time was lower, so it's still only 1½ a problem at most.

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.16 15:58:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Tippia
The problem — in fact, the only problem with this change — is that in siege, it will take roughly 93 years (give or take) for a Moros to lock onto a subcap…


Lock ship. Sic drones. Go into siege. Drones keep shooting when you lose your lock. You'll be putting your trust in the drones rather ****ty AI to pick the next target though...

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.16 16:13:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Furb Killer on 16/09/2009 16:12:53
assist drones to subcaps near you

Elapidae
Posted - 2009.09.16 16:56:00 - [51]
 

Moros needs bonus to drone control range, and drone optimal would be nice. No room for drone mods, drone damage is a huge chunk of its dps, and it cannot do that beyond 60km.


xxxak
Caldari
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.09.16 18:00:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: xxxak
cry cry cry, cry cry cry.

Ships get nerfed all the time. EVE is about risk. If you are unhappy with a sieged dread that tanks 10000 dps and deals 1000 dps to sub caps for low sec station games... welll.. too freaking bad.


You didn't read the post, did you?


I did read the post. You obviously didnt read mine. A dread has an insane tank, especially sieged. There must be some risk involved. Currently, a Moros can play station games with literally near zero risk because nothing can kill it before it can dock. At least with the new system a fleet of 100 bs or 20 dreads could kill it before it could end its siege cycle and dock. That seems.... fair.. doesnt it?

The one problem is that a sieged dread has crap lock times, so I would support giving the Moros a boost of some sort in its ability to lock sub caps (? possible ?).

But honestly, dreads are not meant to for this crap, they are meant for cap warefare.

Get a carrier.

PPS. The Phoenix sucks 110% against sub caps and really sucks (very long missile flight time) in large cap wars (the real PURPOSE of Dreads), so until that is fixed, who cares about the moros.

Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
Posted - 2009.09.16 18:26:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: xxxak
Currently, a Moros can play station games with literally near zero risk because nothing can kill it before it can dock.


Meanwhile a carrier can do the same. Nerf carriers?

So is the station camping moros common enough that a nerf is needed? no.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.09.16 18:34:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Crackzilla
Meanwhile a carrier can do the same.
Dreads are not carriers, though, and aren't meant to be all that useful against subcaps.

Myra2007
Millstone Industries
Posted - 2009.09.16 18:37:00 - [55]
 

Boost the crappy xl railguns and be done with it imo.

In my opinion "out of siege" should not be a role for a dreadnought at all especially not the killing of smaller craft.

If the railguns are up to par there is no problem.

And for what its worth they mentioned looking into all xl closerange guns to see if anything can be done about it. If close range guns would be more viable on dreads - that could also alleviate the problem. I don't know how exactly this could be done though.

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Posted - 2009.09.16 18:51:00 - [56]
 

You're arguing Jin, I'm just saying how disappointing it is...

Its sad that CCPs idea of balancing is to take something that is the only advantage of one certain ship compared to all others in its class, and then nerf it so that ship does nothing as well as any of the other races ships of that class.

Since the original "nerfbat Gallente" comment made by Abathur though they'd said they are looking at XL Blasters (and all short range XL weapons), so perhaps they will compensate the Moros for what its losing anyway. Here's hoping.

xxxak
Caldari
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.09.16 19:14:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: xxxak on 16/09/2009 19:18:26
]
Originally by: xxxak
Currently, a Moros can play station games with literally near zero risk because nothing can kill it before it can dock.


Meanwhile a carrier can do the same. Nerf carriers?

1 carrier and dread roles are different
2 way to ignore the rest of my post incld the comments about the phoenix
3 50% drone dmg gave Moros a broken superpower with no analogy for other races or even carriers
4 don't like it, crosstrain

So is the station camping moros common enough that a nerf is needed? no.

Ulstan
Posted - 2009.09.16 19:19:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Ulstan on 16/09/2009 19:20:51
The station hugging moros swatting sub capitals aside as an abomination. This change was long overdue.

Also, I don't know where you get the idea that the consensus is all dreads are equal.

The Moros and Rev are (or were) head and shoulders above the Phoenix and Nalf.

Originally by: iudex
It's nothing new that the Moros has all that anti-subcapital abilities, why didn't they change it 3 years ago ? Instead now they upset all that people that trained for the Moros because of it's drone role ... no more fun at stations, that's just sad.


I think the tears of the people who can no longer pull off that particular bit of inanity is one of the best parts of this change. It should never have had that capability in the first place.

Training for the FOTM has its risks, as always.

Ulstan
Posted - 2009.09.16 19:25:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Ulstan on 16/09/2009 19:29:56
Originally by: Geminimixer
Am training for Gallente capitals. Not happy with Moros change...Now it will be just the same as all the dreads.


I think this tells you all you need to know about the mentality of gallente pilots. Anything that brings their ship into line with the other races ships of the same class is a horrible horrible nerf!

Anyway, you're still better than the phoenix (worst dread) and arguably better than the nalfgar (also uses citadel torps). You're not as good as the revelation, but that's an issue with the reveleation, not the moros. This hasn't changed the power of a moros at all in fleet fights or POS shoots, you still get your drone bonus, just not while playing station games.

Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
Posted - 2009.09.16 19:26:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Crackzilla on 16/09/2009 19:28:43
Originally by: xxxak
1 carrier and dread roles are different


And they still are. Dread can't use logistics effectively nor field fighters.


Originally by: xxxak

3 50% drone dmg gave Moros a broken superpower with no analogy for other races or even carriers


domi/ishtar have respectable drone bonuses. Carriers can field more than 5 drones versus outright drone bonus. So the analog did exist and the Moros was no superpower.


Originally by: xxxak

4 don't like it, crosstrain



I already have cross trained for the rev, the new fotm.


Originally by: Ulstan
The Moros and Rev are (or were) head and shoulders above the Phoenix and Nalf.



The nag is now better. So the rev is still the correct dread, the nag looks to be nice, and the moros isn't looking as sharp.


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