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Kazaux Aux
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:45:00 - [61]
 

Why not just make the moros' drone bonus 25% out of siege and 50% in siege? makes sense to me tbh

Soleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:45:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 15/09/2009 22:48:19
Originally by: Zastrow J
supercaps arent intended to be solo pwnboats, but with triage carriers around you can ensure that your supercaps would make an awful primary target


Carriers never enter seige in fleet fights. Makes it to where they can't spider tank, and puts an instant primary "sitting duck" target on them. Why would they suddenly start using triage post patch? We definatley need more self repping ability to stand up on our own in fleets, but without being invincible. I think there's a balance that can be obtained.

You are right. Supercaps shouldn't be solopwnmobiles. I'd love it if I just had fighters and fighter bombers. Get rid of our ability to carry normal drones altogether. That should take care of some of the balance issues vs small ships right there and force us to be deployed with a subcap fleet.

iP0D
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:46:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Tigerclaw Bunny
mhh titans get nerved... so thats why ex-Kenzoku is selling there titans since 2-3 weeks before the first dev blog?....


Kenny is broke, pilots are throwing in the towel, that's the reason :P
Check on who is buying, and building, even with a weapon type change the hitpoint changes are not enough to stop them from being glass cannons, hence why people are investing in more Titans. Even now already. Nuts.

Btw, Titan nerf was known for some weeks now, also you would have to be really blind, deaf and dumb to not see hard changes coming for a year now :P

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:49:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Doomed Predator
The name supercarriers is lame and needs to be changed asap.


Agree. I bought a Mothership to fly a Mothership, not a bloody Supercarrier.

Removing the Clone Vat, Triage and extra Warfare is fine, noone really fits the first two and the third is situational. A slight bit of HP needs to be alot more of hp tbfh (same with Titan). After all these ships cost a crapload, and with the changes CCP introduce they want us to frontline field them (no reason else for Fighterbombers). Considering how fast the supercaps die today to sub-cap fleets even, I'd say a reasonable hp boost would lie around ten times the base HP we have today, for Moms and Titans alike.

My Aeon might be the ugliest ship in the game, and I like that CCP is trying to adapt these ship classes to the future (with all caps around). But current Fighters are good, I don't want to give up survivability for some crappy cap killing Fighters 2.0. Screw that ****, give me hp. Confused

Haradgrim
Systematic Mercantilism
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:50:00 - [65]
 

Intelligence suggests that a team of Dust marines will be able to sabotage Titan shield generators located on the moon they were built at in order to drop their shields and allow a conventional fleet to assault them. We are told that the primary weapon system is not yet online.

Many Bothan spies died to bring us this information.

Bobby Atlas
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:51:00 - [66]
 

Titans have just become the new mom and will sit in pos's for the next year or two till CCP realizes there not being used, at all, then changes things, again. A sad state of the game yet again that we find ourselves in, poorly conceived changes with poor understanding of actual problems with titans (not the dd but the lack of drawbacks and ability to warp out faster than a BS).

Zastrow J
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:51:00 - [67]
 

Furthermore, yes I used to fly a moros before I put that pilot in an erebus and yes I remember pos gunners popping my t2 sentries, which not only cost me bux with every siege, but also handicapped my dps. I also rememeber capital fights at about 70km range where my drones couldn't do anything. I remember drones bumping caps around when they were deployed, I remember my sentries appearing so far away I had to abandon them because it would take 10 minutes to scoop. But I also remember killing a t3 cruiser with ogre II's (that was pretty sweet), and dictors with flights of small drones

Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:51:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Crackzilla on 15/09/2009 22:56:39
Originally by: Shade Millith
Now : You have Drone bonus, you drop it on POS, siege it, you get weapon bonus
Future : You drop it on POS, siege it, you get weapon and drone bonus



Now: You can shoot subcaps/pos mods while not yet in siege. In many fights you're outside of range to use drones. Often the drones are lost because you've been bumped too far to retrieve them. You put up with potentially losing a fair chunk of dps because of that subcap niche.

Future: You cross train for a Revelations because there isn't much point in flying anything else.


Phoenix somewhat has a role. Even the nag does now. If drones = siege then rev is the best choice between that an a moros.

Blackhorizon
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:51:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: BlackHorizon on 15/09/2009 22:53:25
Excellent changes and exposition for the most part.

However, I was left slightly disappointed by the assertion that dreadnoughts (mispelled in the blog, BTW) will remain unchanged. If anything, the boring "seige green", lock and shoot dreadnought mentality needs to go to something a little more... skillful.
When you can easily triple or quad box dreads, something needs to change.


Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:52:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Bobby Atlas
Titans have just become the new mom and will sit in pos's for the next year or two till CCP realizes there not being used, at all, then changes things, again. A sad state of the game yet again that we find ourselves in, poorly conceived changes with poor understanding of actual problems with titans (not the dd but the lack of drawbacks and ability to warp out faster than a BS).



So sorry you didn't get to enjoy your new toy. Tissue?

Aylara
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:53:00 - [71]
 

Is the Moros going to receive a drone control range boost while in sige? Since we cannot camp stations anymore and never going to see a blaster Moros on Tranquility, we need something to keep our beloved ships in line with other dreads. 10x!

twobit jenkins
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:53:00 - [72]
 

Quote:
Gone will be:

· The ability for Supercarriers to fit Triage modules.

This is the stupidest idea for a "supercarrier". Can't regular carriers fit triage modules? It stands to reason anything named "supercarrier" could do the same things as a regular carrier, but more (or the same things better). Seriously, now motherships will be the only ship in game that is only useful for PvP. Titans at least get jump portals for logistics work.

Bad move CCP. Please refund all mothership pilots the month spent training for triage or leave triage capability on motherships.

Tarnia Xavian
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:54:00 - [73]
 

You don't need new weapons to sell more motherships. Let them dock and I'll buy one tomorrow.


Prof Fail
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:56:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Prof Fail on 15/09/2009 23:00:08
Edited by: Prof Fail on 15/09/2009 22:57:51
Edited by: Prof Fail on 15/09/2009 22:56:59
Quote:
Dreads will remain unchanged with one small exception - the Moros will only receive its drone damage bonus if it is in siege mode.


This nerf I dont understand. DPS-wise the Moros is the worst turret dread. As a tradeoff the Moros was able to hit support-ships. It makes no sense to nerf this ability. All whats left then is a Dread with bad turred damage, which has to rely on drones to come close to other Dread's dps. Drones only can act in pathetic 60km range and are heavily vulnerable to posguns. Also you have to use sentries to to DMG, since heavy drones are to slow and cant hit POS'. Its also common a Dread is bumped away from sentries.....

Dont nerf the Moros...it was in line with the other turret Dreads. If you insist to deny Dreads to harm support ships, just remove the Moros' drone bonus and swap it for a Hybrid-weapon bonus to enhance Moros' turret dps.

Henri LeChasseur
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:56:00 - [75]
 

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEE

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:57:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 15/09/2009 22:58:06
Any new subcapital vs capital blob counters? Or still "bring as many BS and ECM as you can possibly fit on grid"? (actually improved now, no DD to fear)

Any changes in "who brings more dreads to the fight (carriers count as 1/2 dread) wins"?

De Guantanamo
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:58:00 - [77]
 

This dev blog failed to deliver proper foreplay as is prescribed for all good dev blogs.

What a dumb read.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2009.09.15 22:59:00 - [78]
 

Wow am I ever seeing capital nerf with a capital N.



Quote:
The first Motherships were near-mythical beasts, used by ruthless pirate corporations and powerful PvP alliances, able to stand against and destroy entire fleets nearly single handedly.

Hey we can all go watch loxyrider do this. Except those 4 motherships taking on about 50bs. Actually lost TONS of fighters in doing that. The moms eventually needing their fleet to protect them. Also... epic epic fighter nerf remember. So we cant exactly be elite anymore. NErfed to where we lose all our fighters before we kill anything. Unless there's 50 other carriers there also.

Quote:
There is nothing fancy about this. You will have to warp your titan on grid and actually target an enemy ship to ruin his day. You won't be killing other supercapitals in one shot, but very little else is going to survive.

Ok yes. Titans need a nerf. But you just say... you wont kill other supercaps in one shot. Oh right. We already have Double and triple doomsdaying. So 3 titans drop on the field to blast ur titan. While 3 others come to blast your 3.

Oh right. Nobody in their right mind will put their ships on the field...

And what? Titans are the new anti-station camping? I'm camping in my thanny on station. I better dock or im losing my ship.

Is this new deathray allowed in low sec? Dont undock your caps anymore because the titan is about to bbq u and you cant do much about it apparently.

Titans lock carriers in like 10 seconds.
Carriers align in like 30 seconds.

Quote:
Motherships are being reclassified as Supercarriers. The name of ‘Mothership' has long caused confusion as to what the intended role

So they can now dock? They can be built in stations? They arent going to be these giant targets sitting at pos waiting to be destroyed? Is motherships the new capitals that sort of can protect themselves from titans?

How about pos? Can titans blow them away? If a titan can blast a carrier. That's AT LEAST 2.5mil dmg. Typical large pos isnt that much more. So bring 10 titans and you can RF towers in all the time it takes to get a lock?

Quote:
· The ability for Supercarriers to fit Triage modules. · The ability for Supercarriers to fit Clone Vat Bays. · The ability for Supercarriers to fit one additional Warfare Link per level.

Ok they didnt exactly use these... but it's still a nerf of options.

Quote:
Dreads will remain unchanged with one small exception - the Moros will only receive its drone damage bonus if it is in siege mode.


Yaaay moros nerf. Oh wait... it wasnt even the best dread... and that's not even taking nagl or pheonix into account. I know they got buffed. Never checked how much. So what? Moros pretty much got massively shafted here.

Moros wasnt even op. The very limited use of station camping has led to a number of moros deaths. I dont see why this happened. Is the moros guns getting epically buffed now to make up for the nerf?

I was 2 days away from training capital hybrids for moros. I can fly moros, I can siege moros, but i didnt have capital hybrids. Now I wont even bother.

Moros insurance value is 1.1bil by the way. I'll try to buy myself a moros at 1bil when they are selling like hotcakes.

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:01:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 15/09/2009 22:58:06
Any new subcapital vs capital blob counters? Or still "bring as many BS and ECM as you can possibly fit on grid"? (actually improved now, no DD to fear)

Any changes in "who brings more dreads to the fight (carriers count as 1/2 dread) wins"?


This will never, ever change. Get used to it. He who brings the most people, in properly fit ships, that can all listen to directions, is going to win a huge percentage of the time. To even attempt to "fix" this with game mechanics would fail terribly and make the game far worse than it is now.

Altair Mogwa
D00M.
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:03:00 - [80]
 

"supercarriers' should be able to field different sized fighters that are faster and hit smaller targets better as you step down their size (less dmg ofc) , or at least extend control range on drones.

I really hope there are some other changes. I can't foresee the addition of fighter bombers and a small HP buff offsetting the drawback of their cost, inability to dock, and now lack of triage ability. ship bay / corp hangers are on low utlity list, so that leaves you only with RR and fightbombers. Why risk a supercarrier for the RR? Leaves you with the fighter bombers, buy 5 dreads with the same isk...

The 'other ideas' you speak of i hope really come through. Maybe improve on the ecm functions as well.

CCP Abathur


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:03:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: ElvenLord
Can we get a bit more specific explanation on new DD pls.
Does it affect just the target you locked or even ships around it?


The Dominion super weapons will only affect the ship they target. Subsequent iterations on the super weapon concept may involve multiple targets and different effects as well.

Originally by: ElvenLord
Will be able to kill a single capital?


Yes.

Quote:
Whats the rof on it (still 1 per hour)?


The current RoF on the super weapons is five minutes. This is because we plan to let everyone do a lot of testing on SiSi over the next several weeks. We will continue to balance based upon the results of public testing and feedback. Firing the weapon has the current effects:

  • Immobility for 30 seconds.

  • Jump drive non-operational for five minutes.


Originally by: ElvenLord
Cause tbh, I don’t think that you can make those bonuses that high to make it worth to warp a 60bil ship into 150 dreads just to kill one, let alone into a support fleet and get tackled in less then 15 sec.


Anyone that cowboys a titan into 150 dreads probably shouldn't be in a Titan anyway. These ships, along with the Supercarriers, are not intended to be solo pwnmobiles. With proper support, however, they will force your opponents to make some hard choices about who or what they are calling primary.

Originally by: Many People
My poor Moros!!


Yeah... well... *nerf bat* Twisted Evil

That being said, I'll take another look at their comparative damage output in the next few weeks.

Originally by: Sybilla Prior
What they don't seem to be doing is making sub-capital ships more usefull in big fleet-fights. Why is that?


I would think removing the big button on Titans that makes sub-capitals go boom might help here.

Originally by: Van Krakien
this new titan super weapon is just as bad as the doomsday.....Instead of being able to kill a battleship that cost 100m now you lose your carrier or dreadnaught which will run up a few billion.....good thinking ccp......


The difference is that instead of ruining the day of a couple hundred people (potentially worth X billions of Battleships and HACs) with the push of a single button, you are ruining the day of one person.

Originally by: Emeline Cabernet
Can you assign fighter bombers to other ships like regular fighters?


Good question! No.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:05:00 - [82]
 

Supercarriers sounds kinda lame.

Verys
I Heart Chaos
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:06:00 - [83]
 

A quite detailing blog at last and one I was looking forward to.

The renaming of motherships to supercarriers is just wrong it sounds like something a 9 year old would say there are lots of alternatives out there and I have seen a few nice ones in this thread already.

The titan and the mothership now really closely border each other being both an anti-capital role I hope in practice they won't share too much similarity making the motership once again useless unless you don't have the money to buy a titan.

Motherships should become dockable especially with the current role changes even if they become super capital fleet killers the trouble of having an alt or a pos setup just to get those things safe is not worth the trouble right now and wont be worth it after the patch. This especially if you have a titan who can almost one-shot any capital in the field and will be much more useful because it's weapon can't be destroyed.

It's too bad carriers will remain unchanged and I would like to see a small boost to carriers, make their drones repair themselves within their bays. It's odd that a massive ship with launching bays doesn't have a repair bay for the ships they are carrying unless they go outside.

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:08:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Misanth
Removing the Clone Vat, ...
MS's would have been far more usefull if CCP had made the clone vat bays act like a station clone bay. In which people could put a clone in it and after the MS jumps to the battlefield area the guys who are back at Home HQ area could jump to it and get their ships out... when op is over would put ship back in MS and clone jump back to the Home system.

This would require a large ship hanger (3-4x) as well as allowing multiple clone jumps rather the the one off ones now.

Ulair Memmet
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:11:00 - [85]
 

Quote:
We are also working hard to bring the next iteration of our ‘bay' concept into Dominion in the form of Fighter / Fighter Bomber bays for Carriers and Supercarriers. This will allow you to better organize and separate your primary strike craft from your regular drones


So how big will the drone bay be for Carriers?
Will we still be able to have all kinds of drones (ECM/Neut/Web-yeah i know...-/Repair/Sentries/...) with us?
I always liked to have drones for all occasions.

Dolgu
Cold Steel Evolution
Cold Steel Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:11:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Dolgu on 15/09/2009 23:14:30
Will Motherships grow a bit, so they are bigger than normal dreads?YARRRR!!

No SupercarriersEvil or Very Mad

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:13:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Ulair Memmet
Quote:
We are also working hard to bring the next iteration of our ‘bay' concept into Dominion in the form of Fighter / Fighter Bomber bays for Carriers and Supercarriers. This will allow you to better organize and separate your primary strike craft from your regular drones


So how big will the drone bay be for Carriers?
Will we still be able to have all kinds of drones (ECM/Neut/Web-yeah i know...-/Repair/Sentries/...) with us?
I always liked to have drones for all occasions.


That was supposed to be the point of a carrier, versatile capital support. If they nerf the drone bay so much we can't do this, it's just another short sighed, not well thought out change by CCP.

Van Krakien
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:14:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Van Krakien on 15/09/2009 23:18:29
Originally by: Fuujin
Edited by: Fuujin on 15/09/2009 22:43:20
Edited by: Fuujin on 15/09/2009 22:42:34
Originally by: Van Krakien
this new titan super weapon is just as bad as the doomsday.....Instead of being able to kill a battleship that cost 100m now you lose your carrier or dreadnaught which will run up a few billion.....good thinking ccp......


A single carrier/mom/battleship, not potentially every ship within 250KM of your own. BIG difference.

40 battleship fleet=well over 4 billion isk. 1 dread=2 billion, unless you're doing some silly deadspace fitting.


Edit: Beaten....


yeah but i am talking on an individual basis. Single people can replace 100m not everyone can replace a carrier or dreadnaught so easily.

beaten......

edit: and heres a crazy idea how about instead of giving titans I WIN buttons how about making them more logistical. Just because its big doesn't mean it should kill an expensive ship in one shot.

Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Frontier Venture
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:14:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: ElvenLord
Can we get a bit more specific explanation on new DD pls.
Does it affect just the target you locked or even ships around it?


The Dominion super weapons will only affect the ship they target. Subsequent iterations on the super weapon concept may involve multiple targets and different effects as well.

Originally by: ElvenLord
Will be able to kill a single capital?


Yes.

Quote:
Whats the rof on it (still 1 per hour)?


The current RoF on the super weapons is five minutes. This is because we plan to let everyone do a lot of testing on SiSi over the next several weeks. We will continue to balance based upon the results of public testing and feedback. Firing the weapon has the current effects:

  • Immobility for 30 seconds.

  • Jump drive non-operational for five minutes.


Originally by: ElvenLord
Cause tbh, I don’t think that you can make those bonuses that high to make it worth to warp a 60bil ship into 150 dreads just to kill one, let alone into a support fleet and get tackled in less then 15 sec.


Anyone that cowboys a titan into 150 dreads probably shouldn't be in a Titan anyway. These ships, along with the Supercarriers, are not intended to be solo pwnmobiles. With proper support, however, they will force your opponents to make some hard choices about who or what they are calling primary.

Originally by: Many People
My poor Moros!!


Yeah... well... *nerf bat* Twisted Evil

That being said, I'll take another look at their comparative damage output in the next few weeks.

Originally by: Sybilla Prior
What they don't seem to be doing is making sub-capital ships more usefull in big fleet-fights. Why is that?


I would think removing the big button on Titans that makes sub-capitals go boom might help here.

Originally by: Van Krakien
this new titan super weapon is just as bad as the doomsday.....Instead of being able to kill a battleship that cost 100m now you lose your carrier or dreadnaught which will run up a few billion.....good thinking ccp......


The difference is that instead of ruining the day of a couple hundred people (potentially worth X billions of Battleships and HACs) with the push of a single button, you are ruining the day of one person.

Originally by: Emeline Cabernet
Can you assign fighter bombers to other ships like regular fighters?


Good question! No.



Thanks!!!! You are quickly becoming my favorite Dev! You have allievated all my fears about this change.

@All Whiners: LEARN, ADAPT OR DIE!!!!

MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

--Isaac

P.S. Yeah, I'm an evil bastard.

Hull Blaster
Gallente
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Cult of War
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:14:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Hull Blaster on 15/09/2009 23:15:45
Originally by: Verys
It's too bad carriers will remain unchanged and I would like to see a small boost to carriers, make their drones repair themselves within their bays. It's odd that a massive ship with launching bays doesn't have a repair bay for the ships they are carrying unless they go outside.


+1 for that. As its a carrier, will have a flight deck with crew. Makes sense for fighters and other ships in the carrier's bays to repair at a certain hp rate per second/minute etc.

Would be nice for the Supercarriers to be able to dock... but they're so effin' big how would they fit in the station environment???


BTW! Is it me or do those Gallente bombers look like two seater Viper Mk II's lol.


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