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blankseplocked Kessie has greater missle range than Crow?
 
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Ghoest
Posted - 2004.10.20 13:43:00 - [1]
 

I just got my first Crow last night after months of flying a Kessie. I mostly fly lvl 2 combat missions.

I understand that the Kessie has a longer targeting range.

But I dont understand why I have to be closer when shooting missles. In my Kessie I could set orbit at 25 and just fire away. Actually I know my Kessies misle range is around 29-30.

In my Crow I set orbit at 25 and none of the missles hit. I had to rerset orbit to 20 to hit anything.




I dont see anything on either shipr about missle speed so could someone explain whats going on.

Marcus Aurelius
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.10.20 13:48:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
I just got my first Crow last night after months of flying a Kessie. I mostly fly lvl 2 combat missions.

I understand that the Kessie has a longer targeting range.

But I dont understand why I have to be closer when shooting missles. In my Kessie I could set orbit at 25 and just fire away. Actually I know my Kessies misle range is around 29-30.

In my Crow I set orbit at 25 and none of the missles hit. I had to rerset orbit to 20 to hit anything.




I dont see anything on either shipr about missle speed so could someone explain whats going on.


Depends on your target. My missiles hit well enough at 25km orbit in my crow. The problem lies in the fact that your target is moving towards you. The fast orbit of a crow means that two second after firing those missiles, you target will be moving towards you but away from those missiles. A kestrel is slow enough so that this slight difference is not a problem.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Khe Zen'al'Zar
Amarr
The Gurentai
Posted - 2004.10.20 14:54:00 - [3]
 

of topic, just read ur sig mmarcus, and is it not PayByCash that is responsible for the payment and not CCP ? so you should rather contact them ?

both me and my brother had problems with our payments, but after contacting PBC and sending them the info they needed, we got ingame the day afterwards

back to topic;
do you use mwd/10mn ab ? as the faster you go, the further outside your set orbit range your pushed, combined with what Marcus said, it should give you an idea about why your not hitting

Inebny
Posted - 2004.10.20 15:03:00 - [4]
 

K,there's a couple reasons for this.

I thought at first that there might have been a missile speed or flight time bonus on the kestrel- Not so. Light missiles, without one of those bonuses, can travel a linear distance of about 25k- not more. However, if you're moving away from something and it's coming after you- straight after you- however far it can move in the 25 seconds it takes your missiles to get to their maximum range can be quasi-added to your maximum effective missile range.

Essentially, if they're chasing you, and they're going faster than you (meaning you keep going straight away from them when you tell it to orbit at 30k or whatever), if they're travelling more than 200 m/s they will move the 5k needed to catch up to and be hit by your missile by the time your missile runs out of fuel. That is, if the missile doesn't have to turn much to hit them.

If something is moving at a high enough transverse velocity, your missile may have to turn to catch up to whatever you shot it at. This is probably the source of your problem.

You see, a Crow is about twice as fast as a kestrel. This means that your enemy's approach to orbit you at whatever they're trying will cause them to change direction more, which means your missiles will have to turn more (and that the enemy isn't flying straight at your missiles), which means that your effective missile range will be reduced. You could lower your throttle to fix it.

Seto Mazzarotto
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.10.20 15:32:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Inebny
K,there's a couple reasons for this.

I thought at first that there might have been a missile speed or flight time bonus on the kestrel- Not so. Light missiles, without one of those bonuses, can travel a linear distance of about 25k- not more. However, if you're moving away from something and it's coming after you- straight after you- however far it can move in the 25 seconds it takes your missiles to get to their maximum range can be quasi-added to your maximum effective missile range.

Essentially, if they're chasing you, and they're going faster than you (meaning you keep going straight away from them when you tell it to orbit at 30k or whatever), if they're travelling more than 200 m/s they will move the 5k needed to catch up to and be hit by your missile by the time your missile runs out of fuel. That is, if the missile doesn't have to turn much to hit them.

If something is moving at a high enough transverse velocity, your missile may have to turn to catch up to whatever you shot it at. This is probably the source of your problem.

You see, a Crow is about twice as fast as a kestrel. This means that your enemy's approach to orbit you at whatever they're trying will cause them to change direction more, which means your missiles will have to turn more (and that the enemy isn't flying straight at your missiles), which means that your effective missile range will be reduced. You could lower your throttle to fix it.


Excellent advice. Very Happy

X'Alor
Posted - 2004.10.20 15:34:00 - [6]
 

so wait, lemme get this straight. i'm not sure if i quite got this

you changed ships, correct.

and now your saying that you actually had to change your flying and fighting tactics.

SAY IT AINT SOOOOOOOOOO.

you mean your in another ship right.

with different bonuses.

tactics


strengthes


weaknesses


and you had to change...........NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


ugh

Phoenix Fyre
Gallente
Dark Shift LLC
Posted - 2004.10.20 16:28:00 - [7]
 

Is there some kind of benefit to orbitting over keeping at range??? I've noticed everyone orbits in this game and I always keep at range. My kessie tactic... Warp in at 60 or 40... lock as many targets as possible once inside 40k. Approach. At 28-30k set keep at range to current. By the time the kessie get turned around and headed in opposite direction you're at 26-27k perfect range for a bloodclaw to hit a target flying at you... start dropping missles. If the kessie is faster then the target it slows down... if slower, the the target only gradually catches you and it's dead before it's inrange to hit you. All linear, no transverse velocity, and lots and lots of dead rats. No AB, no mwd needed... Anyone else use the keep at range?

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2004.10.20 16:40:00 - [8]
 

Why would anyone orbit at anything further than 15km in a Crow?
The farther out you orbit the easier you are to hit.

X'Alor
Posted - 2004.10.20 16:52:00 - [9]
 

some just don't understand the concept of intercepters and the bonus they are offered by their ship specs.

but i figured by the original post about having to change tactics after changing ships, that was beyond the reply and explaination

Ghoest
Posted - 2004.10.20 17:06:00 - [10]
 

Is X'Alor ******ed?

I didnt come here complaining.
I came here asking for advice so I could understand what whats going on with my new ship.

Thanks everyone who gave real answers. It does make sense that because Im going much faster that I am actually pulling my target away from the missiles when I orbit.

Seto Mazzarotto
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.10.20 17:15:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Phoenix Fyre
Is there some kind of benefit to orbitting over keeping at range??? I've noticed everyone orbits in this game and I always keep at range. My kessie tactic... Warp in at 60 or 40... lock as many targets as possible once inside 40k. Approach. At 28-30k set keep at range to current. By the time the kessie get turned around and headed in opposite direction you're at 26-27k perfect range for a bloodclaw to hit a target flying at you... start dropping missles. If the kessie is faster then the target it slows down... if slower, the the target only gradually catches you and it's dead before it's inrange to hit you. All linear, no transverse velocity, and lots and lots of dead rats. No AB, no mwd needed... Anyone else use the keep at range?


Only time I use keep at range is a sniping setup with long-range guns and target jamming. With missile boats, high transversal velocity is your friend.

Or just do like me, hang on tight and divebomb. Very Happy

Phoenix Fyre
Gallente
Dark Shift LLC
Posted - 2004.10.20 17:40:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Seto Mazzarotto

Only time I use keep at range is a sniping setup with long-range guns and target jamming. With missile boats, high transversal velocity is your friend.

Or just do like me, hang on tight and divebomb. Very Happy


Against a 85k rat and 2 17.5 k rats... Shocked no thanks... i tried that once and that would be the reason i'm on kessie version 2.0ugh

dabster
Minmatar
Di Hart's Solar Systems Corporation
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2004.10.20 18:00:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Why would anyone orbit at anything further than 15km in a Crow?
The farther out you orbit the easier you are to hit.



Heavy Nosferatu, 9/10 BS pilots best friend, range 21km.

Though, named ones are getting common fast, so 24km is often just as lethal now..

Joshua Calvert
Caldari
Rule One
Posted - 2004.10.20 18:02:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: dabster
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Why would anyone orbit at anything further than 15km in a Crow?
The farther out you orbit the easier you are to hit.



Heavy Nosferatu, 9/10 BS pilots best friend, range 21km.

Though, named ones are getting common fast, so 24km is often just as lethal now..


Good point - I should've known this 'cause Nos are my best friend too!

X'Alor
Posted - 2004.10.20 18:17:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Is X'Alor ******ed?




i must be, that's why i orbit my inty at 25km or farther, y'know.......to really utilize the small sig advantage tracking disadvantage for inties thing. but i could be mistaken, call me crazy not ******ed.

Ghoest
Posted - 2004.10.20 19:56:00 - [16]
 

No

You implied that I had a problem with changing tactics. Thats why I figure youre not very bright.

I have no problem at all with new tactics. Nothing my post was even hinting at me not wanting to change.

But I did want to understand what was happening.

You gennerally will have more and quicker success in games(and even life) if you figure out whats actually going rather than if you trial and error till you hit on something that works.




Anyway, originally you implied something that wasnt true just so you could toss some insults at me. That makes you either disingenuous or stupid.


 

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