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Tyzzara
Minmatar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.09.05 20:20:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Tyzzara on 05/09/2009 20:23:49
Originally by: Miss Moonwych
Edited by: Miss Moonwych on 05/09/2009 16:38:16

I think a major problem is that they are commentating as if we are also seeing what they see.

Instead radio commenting is much more detailed: they have to tell every single detail that they see and NOT tell what they think what it means (only what they see).

Leave the digestion/thinking to the end of the match.

In essence: you have to act as if a blind person is sitting in front of you and be his or her eyes.


This really. Big difference between television commentary and radio.

EDIT: However, I am glad that I can at least listen to it live. But hopefully they work out some video feeds in some manner next year.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2009.09.05 23:19:00 - [62]
 

The thing that really got me was the whole

The ship got HEALED to 50%

Um wait what? You mean set to 50%? you mean damaged to 50%? You mean penalized to 50%?

HEALED?

Quote:
Seriously, tell us blow by blow what is happening. Cut the chat, no one gives a flying monkey about you guys chatting about how you left your dishes in the washer and that if you were in the tourney how you'd fly it.

Or they arent chatting and instead it's dead air because they are watching the match.

Pater Peccavi
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2009.09.05 23:58:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Pater Peccavi on 06/09/2009 03:40:10
Originally by: Jason Edwards
The thing that really got me was the whole

The ship got HEALED to 50%

Um wait what? You mean set to 50%? you mean damaged to 50%? You mean penalized to 50%?

HEALED?


What they're saying is that the ship was below 50% (shields, armor, whatever) but have had their shield/armor/whatever repped (either remotely or locally) to 50%.

Edit: Nvm, I wasn't actually listening today, so I should've just kept my mouth shut. My apologies.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2009.09.06 00:17:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Pater Peccavi

What they're saying is that the ship was below 50% (shields, armor, whatever) but have had their shield/armor/whatever repped (either remotely or locally) to 50%.

no they were saying the GM's punishment was HEALING TO 50%

Kil2
Club Bear
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2009.09.06 00:20:00 - [65]
 

i agree the terminology is a little funny. However, its what the GM's use so its easier not to rename their action and confuse them or ourselves.

Whenever they set the hp of a ship to something other than what it was, they say "heal". <shrug>

Daminma
Posted - 2009.09.06 00:31:00 - [66]
 

Just because some programmer can't write descriptive function names doesn't mean we all have to suffer this confusions.

How hard is it to rename /heal to /health or /life or one of 100 other things?

Please describe what they do more clearly. They penalized x to 50% health would be better I would think. Screw the GMS and their terminology.

Lady Karma
Posted - 2009.09.06 00:32:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Jason Edwards
The thing that really got me was the whole

The ship got HEALED to 50%

Um wait what? You mean set to 50%? you mean damaged to 50%? You mean penalized to 50%?

HEALED?




Oh my word, a genuine internet tough guy (that's what his corp name says)

I'm calling you troll on this on this one, as there is no difference between 50% damage, 50% heal.
On the off chance that troll boy was serious, sometimes on the radio commentary you say 60% armour. Do you mean 60% left, or 60% gone.

The full sentence should be "he has 60 percent armour damage"
or
"he has 60 percent armour remaining"

The main difference between the two is that you should be streaming this as video you tight fisted motherlovers

TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.09.06 00:37:00 - [68]
 

Heal 50 (and heal 0 for boundary violation) are the commands the GMs use and historically that is what the commentators have said.

As to blow by blow, stating that the drakes are still spamming missiles for 10 mins while nothing else is happening doesn't sound that great either. There is a balance and hopefully we are getting there.


But I hope to see all your names on the expert list for the next tourney so I can post "constructive" comments on the forum about how you didn't name a ship/pilot/primary correctly because you were trying to work around sound and client issues where your windows (including overview) and brackets have vanished Razz

Kil2
Club Bear
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2009.09.06 01:42:00 - [69]
 

ill try to be more explicit about the percentaage thing. i can see how that would be confusing. although i ALWAYS am talking about how much hp is left. 60% remaining. ill still try to make it more clear.

and contrary to my esteemed colleague here. i hope none of you apply because i dont want the competition =D

Tiny Carlos
Posted - 2009.09.06 01:42:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Tiny Carlos on 06/09/2009 01:46:33
There should be one and only one primary for tourney commentry, brining in a second person only when thigs get really slow. Cross chat just gets in the way, whatch AT6 vids and you see ships going down without the comm. even spotting it beacuse there too busy talking about...nothing.

Edit: I was looking for some links too old football (soccer) radio commentry to give you a hint, but couldn't find any ;/

IsoMetricanTaliac 2
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.06 02:37:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: TeaDaze
Heal 50 (and heal 0 for boundary violation) are the commands the GMs use and historically that is what the commentators have said.
As to blow by blow, stating that the drakes are still spamming missiles for 10 mins while nothing else is happening doesn't sound that great either. There is a balance and hopefully we are getting there.

But I hope to see all your names on the expert list for the next tourney so I can post "constructive" comments on the forum about how you didn't name a ship/pilot/primary correctly because you were trying to work around sound and client issues where your windows (including overview) and brackets have vanished Razz


I can only ask who's fault it is that you are having these bracket & other issues?, as it isn't like this has happened just out of the blue it would of been planned probably since the end of the last Tourney. <The Tourney that is>

Also maybe the commentary could be more like what you would get listening to a world Boxing Title fight?

When it all comes down to it this is all because CCP decided they didn't want to go that little bit further for their players & continue to broadcast the fights live via video feed like they used to do...

It WAS a good way of getting new players into the game, now the best we can offer is for them to listen to a half rated commentary & maybe get a glimpse of replay video through Youtube.

Anyway it is better than nothing & if you combine the feeds from the tourney <in game channel has GM posted info on it also> you get a bit better of an idea of what is going on...

VOMIT BURGER
Posted - 2009.09.06 06:10:00 - [72]
 

lol epic tears in this thread, LOL if you dont like it. watch it on youtube later. i see no problem with it.

Ryas Nia
Minmatar
Veto.
Posted - 2009.09.06 06:21:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: VOMIT BURGER
lol epic tears in this thread, LOL if you dont like it. watch it on youtube later. i see no problem with it.


With a name like that you sir are my hero!

Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
Posted - 2009.09.06 07:24:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Tiny Carlos
Edited by: Tiny Carlos on 06/09/2009 01:46:33
There should be one and only one primary for tourney commentry, brining in a second person only when thigs get really slow. Cross chat just gets in the way, whatch AT6 vids and you see ships going down without the comm. even spotting it beacuse there too busy talking about...nothing.

I agree about the chatting last tourney(s) but I disagree the solution is a primary commentator.

One good example where you can see two commentators (especially given the circumstances/technical difficulties) work better than one is the commenting of the match between Indecisive Certainty Vs SOLAR FLEET. I think they worked together very well in this match.

Many things went well in this match (red and green), some things could be better (blue):

- Short intro on the teams and ships by both Kil2 and TeaDaze (no chit chat)
- Instead of speculating which setup is better, good details about position/location per ship type is mentioned (great!) and signal that match in underway.
- By watching the effects both primaries are quickly detected and mentioned
- Logistic ship cannot evade the missiles and is critical to stragegy. Battlecruisers have closed in (but being human, he missed that the maulus went down)
- Picking up on this TeaDaze mentions the Maulus has just gone done (short remark on less dampening) but the Oneiros is going into structure.
- In the meantime Kil2 has closely watched the Oneiros and tells us he is flying in the opposite direction and must be local repping since his armor went up several times. Oneiros went down.
- Then talk about the Drake target and mentioning of Drake target switch. While interesting the other commentator probably saw that the Hurricane was going down really quickly (Maybe Kil2 should have switched earlier to TeaDaze or TeaDaze should have interrupted here). But the Hurricane kill is mentioned just before it went down.
- TeaDaze already saw the second Hurricane was already being targetted before the first Hurricane went down. The Drake is dropping below max shield recharge point. Mentioning of split targets and says that Harpy is also being shot and some short speculation about indecisiveness (btw wasn't this simply drone damage?).
- Talk about the Drake lowering in shields while mentioning of Hurricane going down before it went (there really is no time to digest, so he sticks to the important events). With a few seconds of time before the Drake goes down he manages to give an overview off all the leftover ships (great!).

etc.

I think the switching between commentators is critical. You cannot see it all let alone talk about everything you see.

Both commentators talk about what is happening to one of the teams, but since things are happening so fast (especially in the beginning of the match) they do (and should) not talk too long. When possible they mention what happened to the other team at the end of their comment about the team they started with. But since they can't watch them both switching between commentators is critical since the other one can pick it up (while you can analyze without having to talk).

After a few minutes into a fight things generally slow down and a little bit more time is available to digest what has happened or give more details about locations/distances/speeds/time etc. In the few minutes before the fight the commentators can analyze the locations as well. But not during the first minutes I think. They really have to switch often and keep things snappy during that time.

Keep up the good work. Smile

Regards,

M.M.

PS. And yes, I think Kil2 is awesome.

sp3cial forc3s
Sileo In Pacis
Posted - 2009.09.06 07:54:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Ryas Nia
Originally by: sp3cial forc3s
Edited by: sp3cial forc3s on 05/09/2009 17:48:50
2 x shield boosters on a sleipner!!!!!! that mans on the browns

thoroughly enjoying it thoughVery Happy






Go fit 2 pith medium/smalls and come back when your done :P

As for the commentary issues man let me tell you not having icons/brackets makes it alot harder than i expected. I think we have as a group sorted out some of the issues and i hope to do alot more play by play with some color tossed in for good measure.

As for names... trust me you dont want me saying to many i can barely read as it is :P


I'd love to aprt from the fact im not a mission runner and this tournament is about pvp. Also see below:

1.2. Faction, COSMOS, deadspace and officer modules are NOT allowed.

Nobody in they're right mind would fit 2 x T2 small or medium shield boosters to a sleipner in the allaince tournament, once again this is pvp not carebearing.

If you were wondering about the boosting cycles on twilights ship then remember the scimi was repping him also.




KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.06 09:16:00 - [76]
 

What an ungrateful bunch of cnts most of you are tbh.

Gautan Virdamot
Nebula Rasa Vanguard
Posted - 2009.09.06 09:22:00 - [77]
 

I love them dissing the xxxxxxdeath. Very Happy

sp3cial forc3s
Sileo In Pacis
Posted - 2009.09.06 09:25:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: KIAEddZ
What an ungrateful bunch of cnts most of you are tbh.



haha

Tbh, these people apply for they're commentary positions as supposed experts and by doing so are putting themselves into a position to be critiscised. They will just have to deal with it, simple as that.

2nd half commentary was bang on, don't know who that english guy was but he did very well.


Roman
THE KULT MERCENARIES
No Kings
Posted - 2009.09.06 10:36:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: KIAEddZ
What an ungrateful bunch of cnts most of you are tbh.


Look forward to seeing your match Eddz.

Bel Arvandan
Posted - 2009.09.06 10:36:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: sp3cial forc3s
2nd half commentary was bang on, don't know who that english guy was but he did very well.


I think that was TeaDaze, and I have to agree I think he and Kil2 did a great job. They gelled really well and the switch overs where pretty fluid and with few pauses. They both managed to get tons of info out in a short time especially at the start of matches. They both spoke clearly and the technical issues didn't seem to phase them. TeaDaze has to get extra credit as it was his first tournament also. You sir should get a job with the BBC Wink (John Motson move over).

I know some have been giving the first pair a hard time, but I think this is unfair. They had technical issues, it was their first session together and it can take time to read each others' cues. I for one would be terrified to do their job so I give them all credit for putting in the time and effort. Good commentators, especially in sport (be it TV or radio) are really hard to come by. Even the top commentators for events like the Word Cup or Olympics fall way short of being competent and that's their job!

Comment on the commentaries, but do so within reason and commonsense. The commentators read this thread and have shown they are willing to take on constructive thoughts but how does flaming them help anyone?

Nepech Al'akir
Amarr
Resonance.
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2009.09.06 11:40:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Miss Moonwych

I agree about the chatting last tourney(s) but I disagree the solution is a primary commentator.

One good example where you can see two commentators (especially given the circumstances/technical difficulties) work better than one is the commenting of the match between Indecisive Certainty Vs SOLAR FLEET. I think they worked together very well in this match.

Many things went well in this match (red and green), some things could be better (blue):

- Short intro on the teams and ships by both Kil2 and TeaDaze (no chit chat)
- Instead of speculating which setup is better, good details about position/location per ship type is mentioned (great!) and signal that match in underway.
- By watching the effects both primaries are quickly detected and mentioned
- Logistic ship cannot evade the missiles and is critical to stragegy. Battlecruisers have closed in (but being human, he missed that the maulus went down)
- Picking up on this TeaDaze mentions the Maulus has just gone done (short remark on less dampening) but the Oneiros is going into structure.
- In the meantime Kil2 has closely watched the Oneiros and tells us he is flying in the opposite direction and must be local repping since his armor went up several times. Oneiros went down.
- Then talk about the Drake target and mentioning of Drake target switch. While interesting the other commentator probably saw that the Hurricane was going down really quickly (Maybe Kil2 should have switched earlier to TeaDaze or TeaDaze should have interrupted here). But the Hurricane kill is mentioned just before it went down.
- TeaDaze already saw the second Hurricane was already being targetted before the first Hurricane went down. The Drake is dropping below max shield recharge point. Mentioning of split targets and says that Harpy is also being shot and some short speculation about indecisiveness (btw wasn't this simply drone damage?).
- Talk about the Drake lowering in shields while mentioning of Hurricane going down before it went (there really is no time to digest, so he sticks to the important events). With a few seconds of time before the Drake goes down he manages to give an overview off all the leftover ships (great!).

etc.

I think the switching between commentators is critical. You cannot see it all let alone talk about everything you see.

Both commentators talk about what is happening to one of the teams, but since things are happening so fast (especially in the beginning of the match) they do (and should) not talk too long. When possible they mention what happened to the other team at the end of their comment about the team they started with. But since they can't watch them both switching between commentators is critical since the other one can pick it up (while you can analyze without having to talk).

After a few minutes into a fight things generally slow down and a little bit more time is available to digest what has happened or give more details about locations/distances/speeds/time etc. In the few minutes before the fight the commentators can analyze the locations as well. But not during the first minutes I think. They really have to switch often and keep things snappy during that time.

Keep up the good work. Smile

Regards,

M.M.

PS. And yes, I think Kil2 is awesome.


Please do the same with the Cry Havoc vs Pod Liberation Authority match. Man, shut up about some clearly worthless Abaddons and start reporting.

Suas
Perkone
Posted - 2009.09.06 12:02:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Nepech Al'akir
Originally by: Miss Moonwych

snip


Please do the same with the Cry Havoc vs Pod Liberation Authority match. Man, shut up about some clearly worthless Abaddons and start reporting.


To be fair, I think Ryas mentioned that there were issues with the spectator UI for that match which complicates their job a hell of a lot, afterall.

But yes, not always stellar.

Roman
THE KULT MERCENARIES
No Kings
Posted - 2009.09.06 12:37:00 - [83]
 

Kil2 should be doing all the commenting, hes a lot better, him and that other guy worked really well together.

Suas
Perkone
Posted - 2009.09.06 12:40:00 - [84]
 

Kil2 and TeaDaze are doing a great job, yes.

Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
Posted - 2009.09.06 13:18:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Nepech Al'akir
Please do the same with the Cry Havoc vs Pod Liberation Authority match. Man, shut up about some clearly worthless Abaddons and start reporting.


Yeah. I think a lot went wrong (technically) in the first few matches but the "improvisation" by CCP Soundwave really made it much worse: asking (philosophical) questions about which ship would do well and/or belongs in the tourney to a commentator in the middle of a fight is horrible to this commentator. I'm sure he meant well and thought he was helping (by "filling the silence") but commentators get out of the mindset of rapid factual registration and communication if you ask them these questions. This leads to discussions while ships are blowing up and ppl having no clue what is happening (remember: we have no idea what you see on your screen!).

Also TV commenting is really different from radio commenting. I think Crovan needs to realize this a bit more (I know you had tons of technical problems, so I understand). I think he is/was still in "TV-mode"Wink. Basicly you have to report every web, every single HP change and laser/energy/rem. booster effect from which you can positively determine its origin or target. You really shouldn't have time to do anything else. When ppl are (live) watching what you see then you can afford not mentioning everything you see or not mentioning which Rook you are talking about (when both sides have one) etc. On radio you are a conduit and shouldn't have/start discussions of any kind, but only report blow-by-blow, effect-by-effect what you see.

Some other general points:

- using pilot names is really nice, but never do it without also mentioning his/her ship! At some point they were talking about a Gaurdian pilot and kept using only the pilot's name. It was nearly impossible to have an idea who's ship it was (that is from which side) or what ship it was. Using the pilot's name is an add on, not a replacement.

- kudos to Ryas Nia for the commenting of the first 3 minutes of Circle-Of-Two Vs Legion of xXDEATHXx. He did really well on its own and he mentioned tons of details. This went really well until he was interrupted by CCP Soundwave asking him questios about Drakes and the tourney. Again, during commentary, no discussions. It's better to have some silence (e.g. when you are trying to detremine something specific) than to fill with a wide open question causing huge distractions.

- the above mentioned analogy of a soccer game is invalid. What the commentators are dealing with is the equivalent of a soccer game with 3 balls and 5 goals. You really benefit from two commentators, you can't speculate or start discussions during the match, and you have to try to keep track of every "ball" and simply mention everything you see. Unless the match is slowing down a bit (or your name starts with "Kil" and ends with "2") you shouldn't try some (speed) analysis in between.

- make sure you do a summary of all leftover ships every 3 minutes or so. Even when (you think) nothing was blown up. This really helps us "see the picture".

My 2 cents. Very Happy

Regards,

M.M.


Roman
THE KULT MERCENARIES
No Kings
Posted - 2009.09.06 15:03:00 - [86]
 

WOW.

When you are reporting, dont have bloody music in the background! Whos is this guy?

Okonaa
Posted - 2009.09.06 15:09:00 - [87]
 

people who complain about the commentators are gaylords. go and apply for next year if you think you can do it better.

Spyra Gryra
Cruoris Seraphim
Exalted.
Posted - 2009.09.06 15:19:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Okonaa
people who complain about the commentators are gaylords. go and apply for next year if you think you can do it better.


Criticism is a good thing sucka. I will fight you right now if you think otherwise.

Intendor
Minmatar
Space Lane Supply
Posted - 2009.09.06 16:35:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Intendor on 06/09/2009 16:39:50
Worst commentary is on Cry Havoc vs Pod Liberation Authority one.
half the time they were talking about how PODLA abbadon doing damage to drake ..but the drake was from PODLA.
Other half they chitchatted

Also in a commentary please ..don't chit chat ffs.
Originally by: Okonaa
people who complain about the commentators are gaylords. go and apply for next year if you think you can do it better.

That's why we are not there you fool. If that's what i am suppose to do ill apply for it next time.:)

P.S : KIAEDDZ really !!! Don't be a expert if u can't do it right.

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2009.09.06 17:26:00 - [90]
 

Excellent commentary today (day 2) from what I've heard. Much improved. Loving this.


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