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Happster
Polaris Project
Posted - 2009.09.05 14:55:00 - [211]
 

Originally by: Arthur Frayn

The 7th turret now makes the fleet Tempest superior to the Maelstrom and the Vargur in terms of dps with autocannons and artilleries too if you stop for a moment and remember you can still fit a 5 midslot shield tank + damage mods and a power grid mod in the lows.



How do you plan to fit a good shield tank with only 5 mid slots?
-1 for cap injector
-1 for warp disruptor or jammer
-1 for shield booster
-1 for shield boost amp
-1 invu ?

You call this a good shield tank?

Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.05 14:57:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: Ulstan
Remember that is FW LP only. You really can't compare the two, as it's much easier to earn masses of LP's via high sec L4's than from missions in low sec that make you jump through 19 low sec systems full of wartargets per mission.


I can't wait to circumvent the whole system by buying a navy geddon and scorpion off the players who will exploit FW LP for profit.

CCP Ytterbium

Posted - 2009.09.05 15:03:00 - [213]
 

To answer some concerns.


Imperial Navy Slicer:

The 25% bonus to small energy turret is not a typo; this ship has the equivalent of 4.5 unbonused turrets which compensates for other drawbacks, like its relative low CPU or only two mid slots.


Republic Fleet Firetail:

The speed bonus has been indeed removed for the bonus to small projectile turret damage, but its base speed has been increased by 15% to compensate quite a bit, and it is still the fastest of all navy frigates by far. The damage bonus puts its effective turret number to 4, while keeping 2 extra launcher slots than can also be fitted with utilities.


Shield recharge rate:

Yes, increasing shield recharge rate on navy ships was a deliberate move to prevent them to reach insane passive tanking capabilities while keeping more than good offensive capabilities in combat.


Tempest Navy Issue:

We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place. We will discuss this further based on the feedback expressed here. We can't say much more than that unfortunately, since the core problem remains extremely delicate to tackle (and yes we are also aware of the various player threads and discussions that are on-going about the Tempest and projectiles in general).


Scorpion Navy Issue:

We felt that a navy version of an ECM boat would be a bit over the top in term of balance, while not providing an enjoyable role for combat. This ship now indeed has less DPS than a Raven Navy Issue on paper, but that's not its purpose to specialize in damage. It focuses on tank over gank, or allows its pilot to fit regular PvP tackling equipment while keeping some decent shield buffer tank. All of this without saying (ok I said it) that it has two slots left for utilities or guns than can still be quite an edge in combat.


Pirate ship boost

> This newsitem has a hint

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Other improvements are in the pipeline and will be posted when we feel an initial balance has been reached and ready for player feedback.

Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.05 15:15:00 - [214]
 

Originally by: Happster
Originally by: Arthur Frayn

The 7th turret now makes the fleet Tempest superior to the Maelstrom and the Vargur in terms of dps with autocannons and artilleries too if you stop for a moment and remember you can still fit a 5 midslot shield tank + damage mods and a power grid mod in the lows.



How do you plan to fit a good shield tank with only 5 mid slots?
-1 for cap injector
-1 for warp disruptor or jammer
-1 for shield booster
-1 for shield boost amp
-1 invu ?

You call this a good shield tank?


Since you made it up on the fly, I'd call it a terrible shield tank.

I'm sorry, I should have anticipated that you'd use an active shield tank for PVP on a ship that's not built to active tank. You play to the ship's strengths(high hitpoints!) and buffertank it with a mwd. Get a gangmate in an inty with a high scan resolution to do the tackling.

The only time it would be worth active tanking is in pve running missions which makes it easy to tank:

Mids:
1 x XL SB
3 x Hardeners of choice
1 x Cap Recharger

Lows:
1 x Dmg Control
3 x Gyrostabs
2 x Cap Flux coils

Rigs:
3 x CCC

Ta-da!

Happster
Polaris Project
Posted - 2009.09.05 15:21:00 - [215]
 

Edited by: Happster on 05/09/2009 15:27:13
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: Happster
Originally by: Arthur Frayn

The 7th turret now makes the fleet Tempest superior to the Maelstrom and the Vargur in terms of dps with autocannons and artilleries too if you stop for a moment and remember you can still fit a 5 midslot shield tank + damage mods and a power grid mod in the lows.



How do you plan to fit a good shield tank with only 5 mid slots?
-1 for cap injector
-1 for warp disruptor or jammer
-1 for shield booster
-1 for shield boost amp
-1 invu ?

You call this a good shield tank?


Since you made it up on the fly, I'd call it a terrible shield tank.

I'm sorry, I should have anticipated that you'd use an active shield tank for PVP on a ship that's not built to active tank. You play to the ship's strengths(high hitpoints!) and buffertank it with a mwd. Get a gangmate in an inty with a high scan resolution to do the tackling.

The only time it would be worth active tanking is in pve running missions which makes it easy to tank:

Mids:
1 x XL SB
3 x Hardeners of choice
1 x Cap Recharger

Lows:
1 x Dmg Control
3 x Gyrostabs
2 x Cap Flux coils

Rigs:
3 x CCC

Ta-da!


Maybe this is a good missions setup i dont know.
I would use fleet pest for pvp not for missions.
I assume the marauders do missions better as it has 3 utility slots for tractor beams and salvagers, and it has bigger cargo to store it all.

As for pvp fit, i find your setup horrible.
Only place for this ship to fight is in 0.0 and you cant use it in low sec.
Even then i dont like the setup. and ccc rigs on a pvp ship?

Edit:
CCP Ytterbium pointed out ccp know about the issues that worries me so his post is good enough for me to sit back and wait for better times :)

Wrayeth
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2009.09.05 15:21:00 - [216]
 

Edited by: Wrayeth on 05/09/2009 15:32:44
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Tempest Navy Issue:
We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place. We will discuss this further based on the feedback expressed here. We can't say much more than that unfortunately, since the core problem remains extremely delicate to tackle (and yes we are also aware of the various player threads and discussions that are on-going about the Tempest and projectiles in general).



I think this is the first time I've seen a dev post that fully acknowledges that there's a problem with the tempest. It gives me hope that I will actually get to fly the weathervane again in PvP, finally. Cool

I'm going to throw out a prediction that large projectile DPS will be increased. The tempest will also get somewhat more grid, the typhoon will get more grid and CPU, and the maelstrom will either lose a highslot or a turret slot. If the mael loses a highslot, it can be hoped that it will change to a mid so the mael can tackle.

EDIT: I'm also very excited about flying the navy 'geddon with it's fourth mid, and navy scorpion has some very interesting possibilities as a heavy tackler/bait ship. The navy 'phoon seems interesting as well, though the jury's still out on that one. That said, my jaw dropped in shock when I saw that the typhoon's armor and shields were being corrected finally. Good stuff, CCP.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2009.09.05 15:23:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

Tempest Navy Issue:



At least leave it with 6 mids if you plan to patch it later.

Quote:

Scorpion Navy Issue:

We felt that a navy version of an ECM boat would be a bit over the top in term of balance, while not providing an enjoyable role for combat. This ship now indeed has less DPS than a Raven Navy Issue on paper, but that's not its purpose to specialize in damage. It focuses on tank over gank, or allows its pilot to fit regular PvP tackling equipment while keeping some decent shield buffer tank. All of this without saying (ok I said it) that it has two slots left for utilities or guns than can still be quite an edge in combat.



Thing is: tank role in combat is stupid/useless/boring (chose whichever you like). If you plan on being the bait you can be sure that enemy will change target and kill you last when your friends are dead. And as your ship is only tank and cant help combat by much... its pretty much useless. Just check how often navy augorors were used or how often prophecys are. Those are tank boats = boring.

Plus if caldari pilot REALLY wants tank boat he can just bring rokh...

RP McMurphy
Hegemonic Research
CUST0S M0RUM
Posted - 2009.09.05 15:24:00 - [218]
 

Noooo, dont change firetail's speed bonus.

Rather remove that tracking bonus and add speed bonus back! I need my firetail to go 5km/s or more! Its not like i'm gonna shoot anybody while flying 4km/s anyway, so tracking bonus is useless!

Kayosoni
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.05 15:30:00 - [219]
 

Edited by: Kayosoni on 05/09/2009 15:31:42
Edited by: Kayosoni on 05/09/2009 15:30:42
Quote:

Scorpion Navy Issue:

We felt that a navy version of an ECM boat would be a bit over the top in term of balance, while not providing an enjoyable role for combat. This ship now indeed has less DPS than a Raven Navy Issue on paper, but that's not its purpose to specialize in damage. It focuses on tank over gank, or allows its pilot to fit regular PvP tackling equipment while keeping some decent shield buffer tank. All of this without saying (ok I said it) that it has two slots left for utilities or guns than can still be quite an edge in combat.



Thing is: tank role in combat is stupid/useless/boring (chose whichever you like). If you plan on being the bait you can be sure that enemy will change target and kill you last when your friends are dead. And as your ship is only tank and cant help combat by much... its pretty much useless. Just check how often navy augorors were used or how often prophecys are. Those are tank boats = boring.

Plus if caldari pilot REALLY wants tank boat he can just bring rokh...


pretty much this. Tanking is completely utterly worthless in today's pvp due to you guys making active tanking suck so hard and use so much cap. No one tanks at all. The only way for navy scorp to be an actually useful ship in pvp is to have an ECM bonus. Although I like the resist bonus for pve, that's about all it's good for. PVE. (although I also don't want a tech 1 navy version of the widow either.)

Renarla
Posted - 2009.09.05 15:32:00 - [220]
 

As freaking awesome as this, what about the Navy Cruisers? Some of them are decent as they are (Vexor, Omen) but the others (all of the pirate ones for example) are lacking.

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2009.09.05 15:39:00 - [221]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulupark

Tempest:
I think the tempest is awesome as is tbh. It's versatile and can perform fine as a shield or armor tanker.




Originally by: CCP Ytterbium


Tempest Navy Issue:

We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place.


LaughingLaughingLaughing


Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.09.05 15:40:00 - [222]
 

lolfit incoming!

[Dominix, New Setup 1]
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Warp Disruptor II

Large Shield Transporter II
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Energy Transfer Array II

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I


Garde II x5

771/775.5 cpu (drone rigging IV)
half pg used blah

- yes, only 495dps @30+12km around your gardes
- seen better tanks, too....
- but 3 perma neuts! -.-
- grab a cap-partner in the same thing obviously

Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.05 15:42:00 - [223]
 

Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 05/09/2009 15:43:15
Originally by: Happster
Originally by: Arthur Frayn

Mids:
1 x XL SB
3 x Hardeners of choice
1 x Cap Recharger

Lows:
1 x Dmg Control
3 x Gyrostabs
2 x Cap Flux coils

Rigs:
3 x CCC

Ta-da!


Maybe this is a good missions setup i dont know.
I would use fleet pest for pvp not for missions.
I assume the marauders do missions better as it has 3 utility slots for tractor beams and salvagers, and it has bigger cargo to store it all.

As for pvp fit, i find your setup horrible.
Only place for this ship to fight is in 0.0 and you cant use it in low sec.
Even then i dont like the setup. and ccc rigs on a pvp ship?


You're a bit dim, aren't you?

I specifically posted that fit as a PVE fit, not a PVP fit. I said you BUFFERTANK FOR PVP IF YOU HAVE A SHIP WITH HIGH HITPOINTS LIKE A FLEET TEMPEST. You want a fleet Tempest PVP fit?

Mids:
2 x Large Shield Extender
2 x Invulnerability field
1 x MWD

Lows
1 x Damage control
3 x Gyrostab

2 x Power grid mods if you're fitting 1400 arties
OR
2 x Tracking enhancers for the autocannons.

Rigs
3 x Core defence field extenders

Linas IV
Posted - 2009.09.05 15:49:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Tempest Navy Issue:

We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place.


Finaly!

THANK YOU! Embarassed

Ytterbium for President! Very Happy

Ulstan
Posted - 2009.09.05 16:02:00 - [225]
 

Edited by: Ulstan on 05/09/2009 16:08:30
Edited by: Ulstan on 05/09/2009 16:03:09
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

Scorpion Navy Issue:

Slot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots
Fittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots
New bonuses: 5% bonus to cruise and siege launcher rate of fire and 5% shield resistances per level
Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961)
Dronebay unchanged next to standard hull
Speed: +10% max velocity
Sensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull

The geddon, typhoon and dominix all seem to be just improved versions of the existing ship with little extra bonuses, which is very nice. But I'm not sure what is going on here with the navy scorp, you've changed its role completely. It gets a shield resistance bonus instead of ECM so it instead focuses on a massive 8-slotable shield tank. If I had to guess, I'd say they're all being focused on short range combat, which could be interesting. But I'm not sure how much damage this scorp will be able to do with only 5 launchers and a few turrets without bonuses. They'd probably be great for neuts but I doubt you can fit heavy neuts and torps with that little powergrid.

Will be interesting to test them out and see what they can do.


I'm actually rather glad they didn't try an ECM ship. ECM ships have paper thin tank and get primaried. I don't see that working out well. Plus we have scads of ECM ships - blackbird, scorpion, rook, and falcon.

I think by dropping the range bonus the raven gets for the resistance bonus, and including more utility highs, they are, as you say, going for a shorter range/higher tank/more neuts brawler type of BS. Could be interesting at least...if it had the powergrid it needed to use some neuts. But no, no, it's got to have hardly any powergrid at all, like all caldari ships :D

I mean, look at this:

Quote:
Scorpion Navy Issue:

Slot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots
Fittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots

Typhoon Fleet Issue:
Slot layout: 8 high, 4 med, 7 low, 5 turrets, 5 launchers
Fittings: 660 CPU, 13125 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots


Ok, so they each decide to fit out for their 5 launcher variety, and use the remaining high slots for utility. But the Typhoon gets almost 3,000 more powergrid than the Scorpion. And way more low slots for fitting mods, should that be necessary.

Chao Phyra
Posted - 2009.09.05 16:05:00 - [226]
 

"Tempest Navy Issue:

We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place. We will discuss this further based on the feedback expressed here. We can't say much more than that unfortunately, since the core problem remains extremely delicate to tackle (and yes we are also aware of the various player threads and discussions that are on-going about the Tempest and projectiles in general)."

For goodness sake - loosing that extra mid slot is not worth the extra turret. Players have opted for the fleet pest BECAUSE of the sixth mid.

There are hundreds of replies to several threads related to the Tempest, and projectiles, with little or no dev acknowledgemnt. Fix the underlying problem, don't change this a souped up version of the T1 hull

Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.05 16:06:00 - [227]
 

Navy issue Scorpion will be overpowered?

Highs
5 x Siege Missile Launcher II
2 x Heavy NOS

Mids:
1 x MWD or AB
2 x LSE II
1 x EM hardener
2 x Invuln field
2 x PWNAGE painter

Lows
3 x BCS
1 x Damage Control

Rigs
1 x Hydraulic Bay Thrusters
1 x Rocket Fuel Cache Partition
1 x Core Defence Field Extender

Vannogh
Posted - 2009.09.05 16:09:00 - [228]
 

Navy Hyperion? Pleeeeaze? :D

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.09.05 16:12:00 - [229]
 

Edited by: AstroPhobic on 05/09/2009 16:12:50
It's good to see that CCP is aware of the issues with the tempest and projectiles, but I feel they're overlooking the projectiles bit. CCP, it's not just the tempest. Its all of the projectiles. They're the stem of nearly all minmatar issues. The tempest is a separate case and should be treated as such.

I would still never fly the navy pest, but the navy geddon looks pretty sweet. Shocked

To mare
Amarr
Advanced Technology
Posted - 2009.09.05 16:12:00 - [230]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
To answer some concerns.
Republic Fleet Firetail:

The speed bonus has been indeed removed for the bonus to small projectile turret damage, but its base speed has been increased by 15% to compensate quite a bit, and it is still the fastest of all navy frigates by far. The damage bonus puts its effective turret number to 4, while keeping 2 extra launcher slots than can also be fitted with utilities.



not only the speed boost of the firetail got removed wich was the only thing the ship was good at, but all the other ships got a WAY HIGHER speed boost than the firetail.
slicer 287 390 +103ms
hookbill 268 370 +102ms
comet 282 365 +83ms
firetail 357 410 +53ms

the thing is only 20ms faster than the amarr ships, i seriously hope the mass of the firetail will be low enough to have a decent speed advantage at least with the mwd because now the speed advantage is no existant.

oh and btw since you people removed a high the ship isnt keeping anymore 2 slot for missile like you say.



not even going to comment about the tempest and the phoon cause i will be passable of ban if i really say what i think.
thanks for giving minmatar always the worst stuff.

Ulstan
Posted - 2009.09.05 16:14:00 - [231]
 

Edited by: Ulstan on 05/09/2009 16:15:06
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium


Scorpion Navy Issue:

We felt that a navy version of an ECM boat would be a bit over the top in term of balance, while not providing an enjoyable role for combat. This ship now indeed has less DPS than a Raven Navy Issue on paper, but that's not its purpose to specialize in damage. It focuses on tank over gank, or allows its pilot to fit regular PvP tackling equipment while keeping some decent shield buffer tank. All of this without saying (ok I said it) that it has two slots left for utilities or guns than can still be quite an edge in combat.


I like your reasoning here, and agree with it. However, the scorpion simply doesn't have the PG to really use those 'utility slots' right now. I love the idea of having those utility slots, but there's just not much you can do with them due to PG shortage.

5x Siege missile launcher II's is 8271 grid
2x heavy energy neut I (not even dreaming of using the tech II variant) is 4000 grid
100mn microwarpdrive I (again, not even trying for tech II) is 1250 grid.

That's 13521 grid total. We're already far over the grid the scorpion has and we haven't even pretended to fit any tank. Meanwhile, the typhoon, which has an actually reasonable amount of grid for siege launchers and utility highs, can pull it off.


The concept for the navy scorpion is promising but it needs way more grid.


Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2009.09.05 16:17:00 - [232]
 

Think about this on the fleet tempest:

Slot layout: SAME AS OLD!
Fittings: 590 CPU, 16000 powergrid (now CAN use the damm slots)
Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth 100Mbits
Speed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10%

1600 RT
Posted - 2009.09.05 16:19:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: Ulstan
Edited by: Ulstan on 05/09/2009 16:15:06
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium


Scorpion Navy Issue:

We felt that a navy version of an ECM boat would be a bit over the top in term of balance, while not providing an enjoyable role for combat. This ship now indeed has less DPS than a Raven Navy Issue on paper, but that's not its purpose to specialize in damage. It focuses on tank over gank, or allows its pilot to fit regular PvP tackling equipment while keeping some decent shield buffer tank. All of this without saying (ok I said it) that it has two slots left for utilities or guns than can still be quite an edge in combat.


I like your reasoning here, and agree with it. However, the scorpion simply doesn't have the PG to really use those 'utility slots' right now. I love the idea of having those utility slots, but there's just not much you can do with them due to PG shortage.

5x Siege missile launcher II's is 8271 grid
2x heavy energy neut I (not even dreaming of using the tech II variant) is 4000 grid
100mn microwarpdrive I (again, not even trying for tech II) is 1250 grid.

That's 13521 grid total. We're already far over the grid the scorpion has and we haven't even pretended to fit any tank. Meanwhile, the typhoon, which has an actually reasonable amount of grid for siege launchers and utility highs, can pull it off.


The concept for the navy scorpion is promising but it needs way more grid.




1-the typhoon have 8 highs fill
2-the typhoon is armor tank wich use alot more grid than shield tank
3-maybe the scorpion isn supposed to fit what you have listed.
4-utility =/= heavy neut

Tyler Lowe
DROW Org
Brotherhood of the Spider
Posted - 2009.09.05 16:30:00 - [234]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
To answer some concerns.

Tempest Navy Issue:

We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place. We will discuss this further based on the feedback expressed here. We can't say much more than that unfortunately, since the core problem remains extremely delicate to tackle (and yes we are also aware of the various player threads and discussions that are on-going about the Tempest and projectiles in general).



Very nice to see some confirmation that the player concerns about the state of Matar battleships and projectiles in genral have not gone unnoticed.

My two bits:
Tempest: -1 highslot, +1 lowslot. Tempest Fleet +1 turret hardpoint, +grid.

Projectiles need the addition of falloff to the optimal scripts and tracking enhancers for them to have any hope for parity. I do not understand how falloff was added to tracking disruption without also adding it to modules that enhance range. Artillery needs additional magazine size, or maybe, you could go with a 5 second reload timer for projectiles and leave turret capacity alone.

While we're on the topic, a tiered falloff scheme for different sizes of projectile weapons would be nice, as would an increase to 10% per level for trajectory analysis. Falloff is a large part of the problem with projectiles. It is a weak mechanic when compared to optimal bonus, it no longer has a built in protection from E-War going for it, and it needs an overhaul.

To mare
Amarr
Advanced Technology
Posted - 2009.09.05 16:33:00 - [235]
 

Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Think about this on the fleet tempest:

Slot layout: SAME AS OLD!
Fittings: 590 CPU, 16000 powergrid (now CAN use the damm slots)
Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth 100Mbits
Speed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10%


yea seriously this would be a much better boost.
and the PG boost would be very well accepted even on the normal pest, and fix the damn projectiles this the most important thing.

Von Kapiche
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.05 17:01:00 - [236]
 

Edited by: Von Kapiche on 05/09/2009 17:06:36
Hurrah for navy domi/phoon, boo for the firetail losing it's speed :( that's what made it unique. Looks more like a Dramiel now...

Meldorn Vaash
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.05 17:11:00 - [237]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
To answer some concerns.


Republic Fleet Firetail:

The speed bonus has been indeed removed for the bonus to small projectile turret damage, but its base speed has been increased by 15% to compensate quite a bit, and it is still the fastest of all navy frigates by far. The damage bonus puts its effective turret number to 4, while keeping 2 extra launcher slots than can also be fitted with utilities.

New slot layout: 3 high, 4 med, 3 low, 2 turrets, 2 launchers

ok.... 2 guns in 2 slots + Bonus =equals 4 guns... leaves 1 high slot left for 1 launcher or utility. You mentioned 2 launcher slots... so is the new inital layout wrong or are you thinking of adding another high slot?

Ulstan
Posted - 2009.09.05 17:36:00 - [238]
 

Edited by: Ulstan on 05/09/2009 17:39:04
Originally by: 1600 RT
maybe the scorpion isn supposed to fit what you have listed.


Haha, what?

Are you seriously suggesting the Scorpion fitting 5 siege missile launchers and a tech I MWD is unreasonable? Are you planning to run around in PvP with no MWD and cruise missiles or something?

If it can't fit those and also make use of the utility highs, it's not going to be a very good ship. 'Tanking' is not a role in PvP. At all. Suggesting the navy scorpion is going to be a lower dps, lower range, higher tank version of the Raven sounds like a recipe for a ship that never is used in PvP. Now, a lower dps, lower range, more utility ship than the raven *does* sound interesting.

The Raven, I need hardly point out, already has a couple utility highs but it also doesn't have the grid to do much with them. If the scorp is going to be similarly unable to fully utilize its utility highs but is going to have one less missile launcher than the raven, I don't really see much to appeal to the average pilot.


Squidfoam
Last In First Out
Posted - 2009.09.05 17:51:00 - [239]
 

Edited by: Squidfoam on 05/09/2009 17:52:38
That's a pretty nice Dominix Navy Issue - but it doesn't address any limitations of the Dominix, whilst buffing its already favourable slot configuration.

Limitations of the Dominix:

The powergrid means you have to fit energy saving lightbulbs instead of turrets (hard to buff this without making it too easy to fit cap neuts though). So, thanks for a completely worthless hybrid damage bonus!

Drone damage is weak sauce when you don't have any turrets to go with it (and the domi can't fit enough turrets to be worth it - "powerful weapons batteries" lol).

Drones are slow. Not compared to ships, to be sure, but slow to get on target compared to any other weapons.

So - keep the same powergrid, reduce hardpoints, role bonus to hybrid damage?
Buff powergrid, risk neut monstrosity?
Drone speed (mwd only) bonus?
Slightly increased drone damage bonus?

At least remove the "powerful weapons batteries" from the description - alternatively, add a claim of "powerful engines providing blistering speed" to the Raven. Or, "synergistic weapons configuration" to the Typhoon.




JZIM
Caldari
Drakes With Frickin' Lazerbeams
Posted - 2009.09.05 17:56:00 - [240]
 

Originally by: 1600 RT
1-the typhoon have 8 highs fill
2-the typhoon is armor tank wich use alot more grid than shield tank
3-maybe the scorpion isn supposed to fit what you have listed.
4-utility =/= heavy neut


1) The Typhoon gets 8 bonused weapons. Short-range weapons generally need less powergrid than neuts.
2) 2x1600 RTs = 1000PG, 2x LSE II = 330. Not a 3k discrepancy.
3) What would you suggest? Cruises? Use a CNR. To make the Navy Scorp attractive over the CNR it needs to be able to brawl. At the suggested fitting stats it is completely incapable of doing this in the way the other faction ships can.
4) Please suggest a decent PvP utility high which isn't A. A neut B. Pointless on this ship. Keep in mind shield transporters have such absurd fitting requirements shield RR at BS level is almost completely redundant.

Without decent fitting the Navy Scorpion is just a Navy Osprey mk. 2: No clear role, insufficient fitting to fit for its role even if it had one, vastly inferior to its higher tier counterpart in every conceivable way.


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