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Scam Watcher
Posted - 2009.11.19 16:30:00 - [991]
 

Edited by: Minmatar citizen4561451 on 19/11/2009 16:30:28
Originally by: Lambeau Field
So if all navy BS are going to a shield recharge of 3390s then I can say goodbye to my passive tanking Navy Raven.

This Sucks Evil or Very Mad


if you're passive tanking ANY raven, you're an idiot.

Lambeau Field
Posted - 2009.11.19 17:19:00 - [992]
 

i can get 875 Defence and do lvl 4 missions all day and have a peak shield rate of 293 hp/s

[Raven Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Invulnerability Field II
Shield Recharger II
Shield Recharger II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Core Defence Field Purger I
Core Defence Field Purger I
Core Defence Field Purger I


Hammerhead II x1
Hammerhead II x1
Hornet II x1
Ogre I x1
Ogre I x1

so passive tanking a Navy raven was a good thing

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.11.19 17:44:00 - [993]
 

What a lolfit. Laughing

Originally by: Lambeau Field
i can get 875 Defence and do lvl 4 missions all day


Important bit highlighted. Without any BCS, a mission probably would take you "all day". The sooner that Shield Power Relays are deleted from the game, along with any ship that has them fitted, the better.

Mr Opinions
Posted - 2009.11.19 17:47:00 - [994]
 

Edited by: Mr Opinions on 19/11/2009 17:48:35
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Quote:
We would also like to thank every one involved in the testing and constructive feedback process so far, as it has proved to be quite invaluable during the first design process. Keep it coming!
Ok...

I'm just going to leave this link to what the Fleet Tempest should be here, you don't have to look at it or comment on it unless you think your really sure, ok?


That would be a sweet ship to fly with that layout. Another good example of what an tempest fleet with 8/7/5 slot layout could achieve.


Killmeded
Posted - 2009.11.19 18:08:00 - [995]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
What a lolfit. Laughing

Originally by: Lambeau Field
i can get 875 Defence and do lvl 4 missions all day


Important bit highlighted. Without any BCS, a mission probably would take you "all day". The sooner that Shield Power Relays are deleted from the game, along with any ship that has them fitted, the better.


IT is balance -- If you want more dps u sacrfice tank -- If you dont like the SPR dont use them -- spr kill your cap so they are only useful on passive ships

Lambeau Field
Posted - 2009.11.19 18:15:00 - [996]
 

Why so much hostility of a passive shield Navy Raven and lvl 4 donít take that long my drones do most of the killing I have fitted a tractor beam and salvager so I salvage as I go not bad. But that will all be over 2nd of Dec

I am starting to dislike CCP

Originally by: Killmeded
Originally by: Gypsio III
What a lolfit. Laughing

Originally by: Lambeau Field
i can get 875 Defence and do lvl 4 missions all day


Important bit highlighted. Without any BCS, a mission probably would take you "all day". The sooner that Shield Power Relays are deleted from the game, along with any ship that has them fitted, the better.


IT is balance -- If you want more dps u sacrfice tank -- If you dont like the SPR dont use them -- spr kill your cap so they are only useful on passive ships

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.11.19 19:09:00 - [997]
 

I have always fought the way they would nerf the shield recharges of battleships that would otherwise still tank less than a drake/myrmiddon in a passive re-charge fit a little perculuar...

Not that the CCP's balance team follows much logic these days.

Killmeded
Posted - 2009.11.19 22:06:00 - [998]
 

Originally by: Lambeau Field
Why so much hostility of a passive shield Navy Raven and lvl 4 donít take that long my drones do most of the killing I have fitted a tractor beam and salvager so I salvage as I go not bad. But that will all be over 2nd of Dec


I wasn't being hostile -- I like the SPR -- I was saying that there is always a tradeoff in this game -- active vs passive -- def vs dps --- Thats just the way it is -- The best I can fly is far is my drake and i still have to balance how fast I kill them vs if I survive being scrambled and swarmed

Malcorian Vandsteidt
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:17:00 - [999]
 

Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt on 20/11/2009 19:34:46
Something I think CCP should also take a look at, Which I think personaly should have ben added with this expeansion since it deals with faction ships is:

1. Khanid Navies LP Store

Here's a Faction in It's own right which Combines Caldari and Amarr Having Both Missiles and armor items for rewards, However to what do we attach said components, There are Currently No Faction navy ships in game which armor tank yet are Primarily Missile based as the Khanids Navy is.

** CCP should add Khanid Navy Faction ships into Game which Armor tank Primarily, and Specifically use Missiles.

So that this LP store actually has a use and purpose beyond 2nd Generation Amarr Navy and Caldari Navy items. Why run Khanid Navy Missions when the Larger Faction Amarr and Caldari have so much more to offer? Seems like a Huge waste to me.


2. Interbus.

Strangely, This Faction has missions, Yet all of its agents are Based in Stations which do not belong to Interbus, And the one single system Interbus has soved, Has no stations in it.

In addition, this Corporation has No stations which it Owns Period, and No LP store to spend the LP points at. So I ask Myself, why does this Corp even Offer Missions if there is no place to spend it's LP?

3. Dominion Ship Upgrades:

* Nurfing the Fleet Tempest? You have got to be joking, that ship is a shield Boost ship if you remove that Mid slot it is no longer capable of having even a remotely decent tank nor is it cap stable anymore.

* Other Current Navy ships (Mega, Raven, Apoc) Upgradeing the Power grid and CPU on these ships is a needed adition, However, the main use for these is Mission running. Unfortunately you all have upgraded the missions and made the level 4's more difficult. CPU and Powergrid isn't going to help these ships in that respect. Sure it will let you attach more weapons, and maybe help with cap stability a tiny bit, But over all. Your defenses remain the same weakness they have always been.

Heres a comparison: the Navy Megathrons tank is Infinitely Insupperior to the Navy ravens No matter how you tank it. Even its EFHP is lower. And its DPS... well With rails which you use for Missions, It doesn't go over 370 with a proper tank and by proper tank I mean one less then you can get on a Dominix.

(Flame all you want I spent 4 days in EFT testing this based against Focused defenses). And the Capaciter of the Navy Megathron..... Yea not even close to stable unless you sacrifice 2-3 of your lowslots for Cap Power relays, which makes your tank too low to be useful in Missions. (its true you can use Cap Boosters to make it stable but this things doesnt put our enough DPS to do a High Qaulity Level 4 before the Cap Boosters run out. And if you spec it for DPS it has very little if any tank. So it wont survive long enough to do them properly.

You have made similer adjustments to all the navy ships thinking they are the same and need the same, This is a mistake, each ship requires its own specific upgrades and work to fufill its proper role. Slapping the same upgrades on all 4 ships while helpful, Isn't a Huge or noteworthy upgrade. they have all had power / CPU issues forever and work just fine, as people continuously use them.

You should also have added Damage bonus's or made them higher, and Defensive Bonus's as well Like adding an Armor rep Bonus to the Navy Mega for example to solve its Mission related suck tank. For PvP It's an AWSOME ship. For missions it's testicular fortitude is VERY low unless your willing to spend Billions Fitting it.

* Navy Raven:

This ship is near perfect with the exception of its Power / CPU needs. The problem with this ship and the other ravens is the Shield boosters required for them. You can not get a Decent tank on this ship without Spending over a billion on a complex shield booster. this is a problem which makes flying one of these (For the now harder level 4's)quite difficult as all other shield boosters Suck your cap dry in under 3 minuets.

Malcorian Vandsteidt
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:42:00 - [1000]
 

Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt on 20/11/2009 21:51:38
Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt on 20/11/2009 19:43:18
Continued>>>

The Shield boosters currently available on the market for reasonably decent prices are inadiquate in every way due to there insane cap usage. And anything below an X-large Booster is useless for Battleships in level 4 missions as your defense at its highest is 400-500.

With the X- large being so Cap dependent it is nigh impossible to fit the ship properly. Unless you have Multiple focused level 5 skills. (By Multiple I mean Every single shield and engineering skill at 5 + Implants and rigs). And even then your still not cap stable no matter how you fit your ship (And still have a decent tank and DPS). And relitively speaking even the non complex Boosters X- large or not, Do not give you any type of decent tank. 600-800 defense at most.

The only exception to this problem are the Complex Gist type x X-large Shield boosters, Which cost around 1-3 Billion ISK a piece. Obviously not something the average player can Afford. Or afford to loose.

I think a serious look at the above modules should also be taken a look at and rebalanced to support better cap ussage and there for a better Defense.

"Sometimes the ship isn't the issue, Some times, Its the modules required to make the ship fly halfway Decent..)


and Oh.. I GOT THE 1000th POST!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :P

soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:43:00 - [1001]
 

Edited by: soldieroffortune 258 on 20/11/2009 20:44:14
Edited by: soldieroffortune 258 on 20/11/2009 20:43:40
1000th post Snipaugh


Oh, on topic: Uh, the New Apoc Navy Issue is AWESOMEExclamation



EDIT: Dammit! NO errrgh, 1001thCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sad


DOUBLE EDIT:
What a waste of a 1000th postEvil or Very Mad

Xolido
Minmatar
Domination.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2009.11.21 03:35:00 - [1002]
 

Shocked Typhoon Fleet Issue Shocked

Damn i'm gonna need one off those..

And Plzzzz dont make that Ugly Mold Green color.. plzz try to be alittle creative..

Would be Nice to see it like the Nomad layout with the yellow/green light's "Window's"

Thx ccp for not being totally Caldari capitalist Rolling Eyes Laughing

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.11.25 01:23:00 - [1003]
 


waltari
Caldari
SKEET ELITE
Posted - 2009.11.26 11:59:00 - [1004]
 

Originally by: elitatwo

A lot has been said about all the issues and nerfs we got in the last years, starting with the RMR extension.
Since then all caldari ships were nerfed beyond any usefullness for pvp and all other races were buffed to total domination.
For the gallente as THE overwftpwn overkill pvp race with all its mwd buffs or teh suparrrr wtfpwn turret and ubaaarr armor tanking ships, same for amarr and teh overkill always speed tanking minmatar ships.
You left us with slow moving, unequal looking ships with the possibiliy to ecm a few before we get grilled.
A little example:
A year ago I had an unpleasent encounter with a gang of 4 Vagas and an amarr assault cruiser (cant remember).
My base Raven fits:
6x cruise II / Heavy Dim Nos / SB or RR
1x LSB II / 1x boost amp II / defence mods
3x PDU II / 2x BCU II
Now the Vaga's didn't do any dmg at all, so they ran off with there ubaarr speed mwd's and I started to fire on the amarr assoult cruiser.
Imagine a battleship with the big caldari nerf missile launchers hammering 6x cruise missiles every 6.8 seconds on a non moving cruiser (grouped together), which resulted in an enormouse amount of 61 dmg in total on teh shields of an amarr elite cruiser is something WAAAAYYYYY beyond funny!
As a race amarr should be THEE armor tankers of teh universe and the caldari should be THEE shield tankers of teh universe there is something very wrong here, isnt it??
A cruise missile with 2x BCU II has a base dmg of like 410hp (guessed) and hits a NON MOVING target with like 61hp..
What is wrong with you? Are you even tried to fly caldari ever??
Or is ANY game designer gallente/amarr/minmatar because caldari arent worth the skilltime AT ALL?
Given teh base resistance of tech1 caldari ships - which are supposed to be shield tankers I see some deficite to shields in general.
How can it be that an elite cruise is outgunning a battleship (yeah well only one race in peticular here).
Now let's have a look on what amarr ships have as primary weapon system:
Lasoorrrr guns, small, medium, large and super x-large Lasoorrrr guns, which do Thermal and EM dmg.
Now seeing caldari as THEE shield tankers of teh universe, they get a total base EM shield resist of ZERO %.
Now lets have a look at some other race' ships base resist and oh waaait, whats that?
You get a base resist to ALL dmg types big time, in regard to teh armor tankers which do nooo way rely on shields.
Besides that I repeat that teh supaarr standard missile launcher as a primary weapon system need a complete overhaul to be in teh line with other weapon system or even better:
Take it out for gods sake!
Lower PG and CPU usage for teh assult launchers to that of the standard launchers, rename them and we would get a primary weapon system that maybe usefull.
As for rockets, I recall somewhat of teh information as it states:
"Not really intended as a primary weapon but rather as a cheap supplementary weapon system..." - but to what???
Did any of you Dev's ever fitted these lmao launchers? Teh only thing they do might be to scare someone of by its sound, compared to its damage, if its doing dmg at all.
Now let's go back to teh other weapon systems in the game. We have:
Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large hybrid turrets and blasters;
Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large projectile artillery and somewhat guns;
Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large lasooorrr gun in all flavours and as the guns before in short and long-range flavor;
and look what we have here to counter:
"Not really intended as a primary weapon but rather as a cheap supplementary weapon system."
Rocket launchers; standard useless launchers; assault launchers, which cant be uses by assault ships; supaarr heavy to fit at all heavy assault launchers with crap ammo missiles for close range; heavy missiles that might hit something that isnt moving, like an afk-miner, but decent dmg; cruiser missiles and torpedos.

Its sad but hes completely right.

Bidoc
Posted - 2009.11.26 12:28:00 - [1005]
 

Edited by: Bidoc on 26/11/2009 23:39:26
Aw man! You nerfed my FIretail!Mad
-1 hi slot (armaments still split) and a speed cut!?
DPS just took a nose dive.
How does a speed loss make this more like an interceptor?

I know this will get very little attention, if any, but I like my Firetail the way it is. I even like the split armaments. Dual tech II 150mm ac with dual rocket launchers, specialization in both, gives me some very nice dps for a tech I frigate.

PLEEEEASE don't nerf my Firetail.

Pwnage Star
Posted - 2009.11.26 12:31:00 - [1006]
 


EoH253
Posted - 2009.11.26 22:13:00 - [1007]
 

Edited by: EoH253 on 26/11/2009 22:16:36
Honestly, I think people are going way over the top on all the requested changes to The Fleet Tempest and Navy Apoc. What I see wrong with this argument is the repeated comparison to their T1 variants and cross race comparisons as well.

Amarr: Why would you need another Pulse / Buffer ship of obnoxiousness when you have the Abaddon already? I can tell you now, no other race can beat that ship for a full out buffer setup. Perhaps beat it in either damage, range, or buffer specifically, but not all three. I can't get anything Gallente to buffer well enough to go toe to toe with an Abaddon, even with an advantage in close range DPS, and that's IF I start close. Combine that with the fact that there are no implants for active armor tanking (to use perhaps a hype instead of a buffer ship), an Abaddon pilot with slaves can walk away comfortably from that fight.

Minmatar: Again I will make this argument. You want a shield tanker with more then 7 turrets? Use a freaking Maelstrom. I have seen setups that tank comfortably at the 2000 dps level, 3000 if overheated. If that isn't freaking unbalanced I don't know what is. A ship that can tank amazingly well, and is incredibly mobile because it uses shields and as a Minmatar ship, already has the best base speed of any tier 3 BS. And you are arguing that the loss of a midslot in the Tempest is bad?

This is the closest I've seen to balanced ships in awhile, honestly. I still think Gallente overall are getting the short end of the stick.

Dominix Navy Issue: While the HP bumps are greatly welcomed, some increase in DPS would have been far better. It is a Drone ship that even with skills MAXXED, a flight of Ogre II's will be doing only 467 dps. I know, you might be thinking "thats effing amazing for drones, what are you complaining about?!" But with a Dominix, my drones arren't a damage suppliment, they are my primary means of doing damage. I think ANY other pilot would be up in arms, and be out for blood if their battery of 8 lasers or 6 missile launchers were only doing 467 dps at maxed skills. We are not helped by the fact that there is no damage mod for drones. The nautral damage bumps built into the hull is all we get. So now the Dominix Navy Issue is as tough as any other Tier 1 faction ship but still lacks the hitting power to take things apart. Combine that with the fact that Gallente CAN'T buffer as well as Amarr, or tank as well as some Caldari or Minmatar, and you have a very limited ship indeed.

Toss in the fact that drones are now given as offerings to the gate gun lords as tasty treats instead of actually serving a damage purpose, and things get even worse.

Minimtar pilots are being wronged are they? I think not. The projectile fix is in the works, and that seems to be more then enough of a balance. Meanwhile, Gallente pilots will continue to be walked over because we can do damage with blasters, and nothing else. We can other things, just not as well as anyone else.

It is time CCP decided to stop ignoring this problem after their massive over nerfs on Gallentian ships, and found a way to actually balance them in with the other three races.

Bonny Lee
Caldari
Starkstrom
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.11.26 23:54:00 - [1008]
 

Originally by: EoH253
Edited by: EoH253 on 26/11/2009 22:16:36
Honestly, I think people are going way over the top on all the requested changes to The Fleet Tempest and Navy Apoc. What I see wrong with this argument is the repeated comparison to their T1 variants and cross race comparisons as well.

Amarr: Why would you need another Pulse / Buffer ship of obnoxiousness when you have the Abaddon already? I can tell you now, no other race can beat that ship for a full out buffer setup. Perhaps beat it in either damage, range, or buffer specifically, but not all three. I can't get anything Gallente to buffer well enough to go toe to toe with an Abaddon, even with an advantage in close range DPS, and that's IF I start close. Combine that with the fact that there are no implants for active armor tanking (to use perhaps a hype instead of a buffer ship), an Abaddon pilot with slaves can walk away comfortably from that fight.

Minmatar: Again I will make this argument. You want a shield tanker with more then 7 turrets? Use a freaking Maelstrom. I have seen setups that tank comfortably at the 2000 dps level, 3000 if overheated. If that isn't freaking unbalanced I don't know what is. A ship that can tank amazingly well, and is incredibly mobile because it uses shields and as a Minmatar ship, already has the best base speed of any tier 3 BS. And you are arguing that the loss of a midslot in the Tempest is bad?

This is the closest I've seen to balanced ships in awhile, honestly. I still think Gallente overall are getting the short end of the stick.

Dominix Navy Issue: While the HP bumps are greatly welcomed, some increase in DPS would have been far better. It is a Drone ship that even with skills MAXXED, a flight of Ogre II's will be doing only 467 dps. I know, you might be thinking "thats effing amazing for drones, what are you complaining about?!" But with a Dominix, my drones arren't a damage suppliment, they are my primary means of doing damage. I think ANY other pilot would be up in arms, and be out for blood if their battery of 8 lasers or 6 missile launchers were only doing 467 dps at maxed skills. We are not helped by the fact that there is no damage mod for drones. The nautral damage bumps built into the hull is all we get. So now the Dominix Navy Issue is as tough as any other Tier 1 faction ship but still lacks the hitting power to take things apart. Combine that with the fact that Gallente CAN'T buffer as well as Amarr, or tank as well as some Caldari or Minmatar, and you have a very limited ship indeed.

Toss in the fact that drones are now given as offerings to the gate gun lords as tasty treats instead of actually serving a damage purpose, and things get even worse.

Minimtar pilots are being wronged are they? I think not. The projectile fix is in the works, and that seems to be more then enough of a balance. Meanwhile, Gallente pilots will continue to be walked over because we can do damage with blasters, and nothing else. We can other things, just not as well as anyone else.

It is time CCP decided to stop ignoring this problem after their massive over nerfs on Gallentian ships, and found a way to actually balance them in with the other three races.


I dont see any Issues with Gallente beside there could be some little love to blasters.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2009.11.27 00:07:00 - [1009]
 

Yes over the top on the tempest and apoc comparisons is funny to see. The arguemnts are based in failure to adapt to balance

Amarr = Perhaps a more specced pulse-beam ship with less buffer is needed. The buffer setup needs a nerf on the abaddon my opinion. The implants for active armour tanking are needed could be khandid based.

Minatar - shield tanking 7 turret ship should have some serious speed drawbacks. The overheat will give these ships and added bonus as well. The mobility is good. The base needs to be adjusted.

Dominix naval becomes a better tank version. good for wormhole space or RR fights. Perhaps its time for damage mods for drones. Factional one would work. So it will be role retained.

We are getting factional drones tho which like the named t2 drone region nes will offer dual damage situation useful for attacking certain enemies

Triss Scaran
Posted - 2009.11.27 06:02:00 - [1010]
 

Dont forget ur drone dps is lessly effected by target speed ( which u would easily fix with ur extra mid slot a web, scramble, caldari ship wont have either or both of em or they would hurt their already fking sucky shield tank) and target size. u were a caldari pilot as well. should have know WHY would u quit flying caldai ship in the first place. u making ur self be laughed at ( at least from all of my corp mates) by saying that gal ship has less damage and tanking ability than minmatar or even caldari. where s th fk is ur guns, dont tell me ur never fit ur gun on ur gal ship.

btw. i am really disappointed on ccp again at caldari shield tanking balance ( act of increase shield recharged time, and missile nerf in the past)
Originally by: EoH253
Edited by: EoH253 on 26/11/2009 22:16:36
Dominix Navy Issue: While the HP bumps are greatly welcomed, some increase in DPS would have been far better. It is a Drone ship that even with skills MAXXED, a flight of Ogre II's will be doing only 467 dps. I know, you might be thinking "thats effing amazing for drones, what are you complaining about?!" But with a Dominix, my drones arren't a damage suppliment, they are my primary means of doing damage. I think ANY other pilot would be up in arms, and be out for blood if their battery of 8 lasers or 6 missile launchers were only doing 467 dps at maxed skills. We are not helped by the fact that there is no damage mod for drones. The nautral damage bumps built into the hull is all we get. So now the Dominix Navy Issue is as tough as any other Tier 1 faction ship but still lacks the hitting power to take things apart. Combine that with the fact that Gallente CAN'T buffer as well as Amarr, or tank as well as some Caldari or Minmatar, and you have a very limited ship indeed.

Toss in the fact that drones are now given as offerings to the gate gun lords as tasty treats instead of actually serving a damage purpose, and things get even worse.

Minimtar pilots are being wronged are they? I think not. The projectile fix is in the works, and that seems to be more then enough of a balance. Meanwhile, Gallente pilots will continue to be walked over because we can do damage with blasters, and nothing else. We can other things, just not as well as anyone else.

It is time CCP decided to stop ignoring this problem after their massive over nerfs on Gallentian ships, and found a way to actually balance them in with the other three races.

Triss Scaran
Posted - 2009.11.27 06:08:00 - [1011]
 

Oh my god. u guys r totally right, playing for 4 years, quit 2 times as caldari pilot. never wanted to go back to forum for the last 2 years and now i have to to log on just to saying that WT hell is wrong with those caldari designer, where r they now. have they ever fly their ship ut of mission to pvp. bring their newbie caldari char into lowsec for the first time.
Originally by: waltari
Originally by: elitatwo

A lot has been said about all the issues and nerfs we got in the last years, starting with the RMR extension.
Since then all caldari ships were nerfed beyond any usefullness for pvp and all other races were buffed to total domination.
For the gallente as THE overwftpwn overkill pvp race with all its mwd buffs or teh suparrrr wtfpwn turret and ubaaarr armor tanking ships, same for amarr and teh overkill always speed tanking minmatar ships.
You left us with slow moving, unequal looking ships with the possibiliy to ecm a few before we get grilled.
A little example:
A year ago I had an unpleasent encounter with a gang of 4 Vagas and an amarr assault cruiser (cant remember).
My base Raven fits:
6x cruise II / Heavy Dim Nos / SB or RR
1x LSB II / 1x boost amp II / defence mods
3x PDU II / 2x BCU II
Now the Vaga's didn't do any dmg at all, so they ran off with there ubaarr speed mwd's and I started to fire on the amarr assoult cruiser.
Imagine a battleship with the big caldari nerf missile launchers hammering 6x cruise missiles every 6.8 seconds on a non moving cruiser (grouped together), which resulted in an enormouse amount of 61 dmg in total on teh shields of an amarr elite cruiser is something WAAAAYYYYY beyond funny!
As a race amarr should be THEE armor tankers of teh universe and the caldari should be THEE shield tankers of teh universe there is something very wrong here, isnt it??
A cruise missile with 2x BCU II has a base dmg of like 410hp (guessed) and hits a NON MOVING target with like 61hp..
What is wrong with you? Are you even tried to fly caldari ever??
Or is ANY game designer gallente/amarr/minmatar because caldari arent worth the skilltime AT ALL?
Given teh base resistance of tech1 caldari ships - which are supposed to be shield tankers I see some deficite to shields in general.
How can it be that an elite cruise is outgunning a battleship (yeah well only one race in peticular here).
Now let's have a look on what amarr ships have as primary weapon system:
Lasoorrrr guns, small, medium, large and super x-large Lasoorrrr guns, which do Thermal and EM dmg.
Now seeing caldari as THEE shield tankers of teh universe, they get a total base EM shield resist of ZERO %.
Now lets have a look at some other race' ships base resist and oh waaait, whats that?
You get a base resist to ALL dmg types big time, in regard to teh armor tankers which do nooo way rely on shields.
Besides that I repeat that teh supaarr standard missile launcher as a primary weapon system need a complete overhaul to be in teh line with other weapon system or even better:
Take it out for gods sake!
Lower PG and CPU usage for teh assult launchers to that of the standard launchers, rename them and we would get a primary weapon system that maybe usefull.
As for rockets, I recall somewhat of teh information as it states:
"Not really intended as a primary weapon but rather as a cheap supplementary weapon system..." - but to what???
Did any of you Dev's ever fitted these lmao launchers? Teh only thing they do might be to scare someone of by its sound, compared to its damage, if its doing dmg at all.
Now let's go back to teh other weapon systems in the game. We have:
Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large hybrid turrets and blasters;
Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large projectile artillery and somewhat guns;
Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large lasooorrr gun in all flavours and as the guns before in short and long-range ..............

Its

Johndalar
Posted - 2009.11.27 07:44:00 - [1012]
 

Originally by: EoH253
Edited by: EoH253 on 26/11/2009 22:16:36
Honestly, I think people are going way over the top on all the requested changes to The Fleet Tempest and Navy Apoc. What I see wrong with this argument is the repeated comparison to their T1 variants and cross race comparisons as well.

Amarr: Why would you need another Pulse / Buffer ship of obnoxiousness when you have the Abaddon already? I can tell you now, no other race can beat that ship for a full out buffer setup. Perhaps beat it in either damage, range, or buffer specifically, but not all three. I can't get anything Gallente to buffer well enough to go toe to toe with an Abaddon, even with an advantage in close range DPS, and that's IF I start close. Combine that with the fact that there are no implants for active armor tanking (to use perhaps a hype instead of a buffer ship), an Abaddon pilot with slaves can walk away comfortably from that fight.

Minmatar: Again I will make this argument. You want a shield tanker with more then 7 turrets? Use a freaking Maelstrom. I have seen setups that tank comfortably at the 2000 dps level, 3000 if overheated. If that isn't freaking unbalanced I don't know what is. A ship that can tank amazingly well, and is incredibly mobile because it uses shields and as a Minmatar ship, already has the best base speed of any tier 3 BS. And you are arguing that the loss of a midslot in the Tempest is bad?

This is the closest I've seen to balanced ships in awhile, honestly. I still think Gallente overall are getting the short end of the stick.

Dominix Navy Issue: While the HP bumps are greatly welcomed, some increase in DPS would have been far better. It is a Drone ship that even with skills MAXXED, a flight of Ogre II's will be doing only 467 dps. I know, you might be thinking "thats effing amazing for drones, what are you complaining about?!" But with a Dominix, my drones arren't a damage suppliment, they are my primary means of doing damage. I think ANY other pilot would be up in arms, and be out for blood if their battery of 8 lasers or 6 missile launchers were only doing 467 dps at maxed skills. We are not helped by the fact that there is no damage mod for drones. The nautral damage bumps built into the hull is all we get. So now the Dominix Navy Issue is as tough as any other Tier 1 faction ship but still lacks the hitting power to take things apart. Combine that with the fact that Gallente CAN'T buffer as well as Amarr, or tank as well as some Caldari or Minmatar, and you have a very limited ship indeed.

Toss in the fact that drones are now given as offerings to the gate gun lords as tasty treats instead of actually serving a damage purpose, and things get even worse.

Minimtar pilots are being wronged are they? I think not. The projectile fix is in the works, and that seems to be more then enough of a balance. Meanwhile, Gallente pilots will continue to be walked over because we can do damage with blasters, and nothing else. We can other things, just not as well as anyone else.

It is time CCP decided to stop ignoring this problem after their massive over nerfs on Gallentian ships, and found a way to actually balance them in with the other three races.


Give me a Tempest fit that is not over shadowed by every other tech2 BS and if you can do something with the Fleet Pest that makes it worth the isk you must have access to some implants that no one else has. And don't even try saying mini''s are fixed with the Projectile Fix, lol, you know Nozh is the one doing it right..... he F-ed up caps, nerfed the Nag, and his 'Fix' for artys is Alpha but you can get more Alpha with arty on Amarr ships.... yeah great... long range ammo does less damage so Muninn is nerfed... but your right all that is more than enough to 'balance' minmatar.

Be careful what you wish for.... Nozh could be assigned to Galli 'balance' tooEvil or Very Mad

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.11.27 09:18:00 - [1013]
 

Originally by: EoH253
Dominix Navy Issue: While the HP bumps are greatly welcomed, some increase in DPS would have been far better. It is a Drone ship that even with skills MAXXED, a flight of Ogre II's will be doing only 467 dps. I know, you might be thinking "thats effing amazing for drones, what are you complaining about?!" But with a Dominix, my drones arren't a damage suppliment, they are my primary means of doing damage. I think ANY other pilot would be up in arms, and be out for blood if their battery of 8 lasers or 6 missile launchers were only doing 467 dps at maxed skills.


You have six bonused turrets and the fittings to use them, you blithering fool.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
Posted - 2009.11.28 03:20:00 - [1014]
 

tempest fleet issue = pathetic

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2009.11.28 05:55:00 - [1015]
 

Tempetst fleet issue = less than pathetic just modified

Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.11.28 15:18:00 - [1016]
 

Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 28/11/2009 15:30:58
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Further changes.

Tempest:

ē Hitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)


Erm, ok why does the Tempest get more armor than a Megathron?
It's not like Minmatar don't generally have more speed as an additional defensive attribute, while Gallente rely on being the second best armor tanks.
Apart from that, pin-pointing the Tempest into the armor tanking 'role' isn't such a great change tbh.
An even distribution of 6582 armor and shield hp would be rather unique and allow for both shield and armor tanking.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
Posted - 2009.11.29 09:47:00 - [1017]
 

u dont need to worry about tempest out tank anything...but yes if they do some changes to guns id prefer to tempest stay more shield base with 6/6 slot ratio and 6 guns(fleet issue ofc)

milessana hax
Posted - 2009.11.29 21:44:00 - [1018]
 

Originally by: MalVortex
Geddon Navy and Scorpion navy seem overshadowed by their Tier 3 counterparts. Between the higher-base armor/shield and the resist bonus, these faction ships actually carry less real buffer than the Abaddon or Rokh. While the Navy Tier 1s do carry an extra low/mid on their primary tanking rack, and extra fitting, I don't see them coming out ahead. Any gains they do achieve will be completley overshadowed by their cost - which will be rather high given the FW LP only.

They need to do something more unique than "buffer laser" or "buffer missile"... These rolls frankly already exist. The extra drone space on the Armageddon is also somewhat wasted, given that it needs those 5x heavy drones for a large chunk of its damage. Directly boosting their hull bonuses would be preferable. Something between 6% to 7.5% ROF/level instead of 5%/level would at least bring something unique to these hulls besides easier fitting and more armor.

In a similar vein, I'm still unimpressed by the Apocalypse Navy. Its easy to fit, and can get some nice buffer... But so does the Abaddon. Its too expensive to snipe with (and does nothing unique in this regard over the T1 apoc anyways), and pulse lasers have no real use for the range bonus now that nano-cruisers are dead. Going from 15km to 21km on MF, and 45km to 60km on scorch, simply doesn't do much. The base ranges are already quite sufficient. Id really like to see the optimal range bonus either increased to 10%/level, or changed to a 7.5% tracking bonus a la the Redeemer. As it stands, the Apoc navy is yet another armor buffer amarr laser ship, with absolutely on new take on that roll. Better tracking, or great pulse laser range, would at least spice this up a bit. There are too many amarr battleships competing for the same combat niche.


When used as a noun, "roll" means a type of bread. Are they changing the ship models that much? Also, will there be different types of rolls, like sweet rolls for Gallente vs. dinner rolls for Caldari?

Nova Satar
Sileo In Pacis
Posted - 2009.11.30 13:36:00 - [1019]
 

so whats the deal with the STANDARD typhoon? are there any changes going ahead?

I cant find a defintive post that isnt outdated and/or ****. the patch otes just point to a 2month + old post

thnx

Shady Salesman
Posted - 2009.11.30 14:43:00 - [1020]
 

Originally by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt on 20/11/2009 21:51:38
Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt on 20/11/2009 19:43:18
Continued>>>

The Shield boosters currently available on the market for reasonably decent prices are inadiquate in every way due to there insane cap usage. And anything below an X-large Booster is useless for Battleships in level 4 missions as your defense at its highest is 400-500.

With the X- large being so Cap dependent it is nigh impossible to fit the ship properly. Unless you have Multiple focused level 5 skills. (By Multiple I mean Every single shield and engineering skill at 5 + Implants and rigs). And even then your still not cap stable no matter how you fit your ship (And still have a decent tank and DPS). And relitively speaking even the non complex Boosters X- large or not, Do not give you any type of decent tank. 600-800 defense at most.

The only exception to this problem are the Complex Gist type x X-large Shield boosters, Which cost around 1-3 Billion ISK a piece. Obviously not something the average player can Afford. Or afford to loose.

I think a serious look at the above modules should also be taken a look at and rebalanced to support better cap ussage and there for a better Defense.

"Sometimes the ship isn't the issue, Some times, Its the modules required to make the ship fly halfway Decent..)


and Oh.. I GOT THE 1000th POST!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :P


So... You're saying that 800 dps tank is not sufficient for missions? Right... fyi, I have been running missions in a cnr for a while now, and I have a 475 dps tank, and I have no problems at all to solo lvl 4... It kills stuff in 4-5 volleys, and thus doesn't need any more tank, since it has a sick buffer it won't break.

Oh, and I consider myself a casual missionrunner, and I make 300-400m / week. 1b is cheap.


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