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NightmareX
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:20:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: NightmareX on 04/09/2009 20:24:48
Originally by: Cocurachan
Removing a med slot from the fleet pest really sucks. How is this Ship supposed to tank now ?

It's supposed to use armor tank.

My normal Tempest eats Ravens to breakfast easily from time to time with an armor tank and dual heavy neuts.

I personally think the new Fleet Tempest is going to be pretty nice in small gangs and close range fights.

Ofc, it will sucks a little to not be able to use 2x Heavy Neuts on it if your using 7x guns, but lets see how it turns out. I can't really says how it is before i have tried the new version of the Fleet Tempest out.

EDIT: Now we just need the Projectile buff and i think an AC Fleet Tempest will be niiiiiice.

Sazuka Kirr
Caldari
Trans-Solar Works
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:21:00 - [62]
 

Yay! Tempt more people to join FW without really doing anything to make FW better.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:21:00 - [63]
 

Oh my.

Dominix Navy Issue:

Slot layout: 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots, 6 turrets, no launchers
Fittings: 660 CPU, 9900 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots
Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9961), armor (9316) and shields (8203)
Capacitor: +5% max capacitor (5250 capacitor, 1087.5s recharge)
Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged
Sensor: +25% magnetometric sensor strength

<3

Just perfect. Couldnt ask for better. Absolutely love it.


Also looking over the other ships. I cant say I have anything bad to say about them.

Quote:
* Standard Typhoon armor and shield values have been swapped as well


AWESOME.

Quote:
General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.

Was this done to make it possible to make it possible to passive shield tank them? Though it's a massive nerf to the Tempest Fleet Issue such that it basically invalidates that possible use of the ship. So erm ya that's crappy.



FACTION CAPITALS!



Thanatos Navy Issue
Moros Navy Issue

Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:23:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

Dominix Navy Issue receives an extra med-slot, Scorpion an extra high-slot; Typhoon Navy Issue receives extra-damage or setup versatility (depends on the setups) with 5/5 turrets/launchers. The Armageddon does not get more drones but more replacements, just like others. It gets 50m3 dronebay increase just like the Megathron Navy Issue since it relies on heavy drones to do the job.

The CPU/powergrid boost on the tier 2 navy battleships is also weighted regarding other capabilities they receive, and the role they are supposed to achieve.

Armageddon, Apocalypse, Megathron and other with drone changes - Replacements? Nayyyy... More like another set of lights to get rid of those pesky mission frigs.
Scorpion - Interesting twist.
Raven - No big change here.
Dominix - Okay, it's not even a bit overpowered.
Typhoon, Tempest - Excuse me, BUT WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING?!? (Sorry for caps, but I want it too)/ Seriously, you could get more "versatility" with adding/moving single low slot - Tempest 8/5/7, Typhoon 8/4/8. Damage increase from single Gyro/BCU II would be comparable - more on Tempest, less on Typhoon. Ship wouldn't need to waste high slot on more or less mandatory gun. Pilot would have choice to make ship more ganky or more tanky.

Now, you either use the high slot on gun/launcher, or you have just standard T1 battleship with some more base HP.

And finally, could anyone from CCP explain, what do you mean by "versatility", please?

Anubis Hothyck
Trans-Solar Works
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:29:00 - [65]
 

I like most of the changes though.

Any report on the Pirate Faction ships? The Cruor is next to useless with two mid slots for example =)

Vylth
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:31:00 - [66]
 

Am I the only one not happy at all with the dominix?

For years now I've wanted an upgraded version that does more damage with drones. There is no subcap in the game that does more drone DPS than a plain old t1 dominix with T2 drones, and with this new version there still won't be.

I'm not looking for a broken bonus like the guardian-vexor, but anything better than the regular domi would be nice.

Iohan Sjet
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:32:00 - [67]
 

I like what I've seen so far.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:36:00 - [68]
 

Republic Fleet Tempest and Typhoon: I just came!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:38:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 04/09/2009 20:39:08
Originally by: Vylth
Am I the only one not happy at all with the dominix?

For years now I've wanted an upgraded version that does more damage with drones. There is no subcap in the game that does more drone DPS than a plain old t1 dominix with T2 drones, and with this new version there still won't be.

I'm not looking for a broken bonus like the guardian-vexor, but anything better than the regular domi would be nice.
well... you get lots more cpu via that med slot which you could waste on a sentry damage augmentor... :o
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Republic Fleet Tempest and Typhoon: I just came!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feel free to take a closer look -.-

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:39:00 - [70]
 

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=983423&page=1

This is how you do the Mission Running Fleet Tempest. Your changes to it make it break utterly. Horribly nerfed shield recharge and 1 less mid slot.

I'd ask you keep the same level recharge for the faction pest.

Sith LordX
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:39:00 - [71]
 

Teir 3's need some love too. Crying or Very sad

Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:40:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Vylth
Am I the only one not happy at all with the dominix?

For years now I've wanted an upgraded version that does more damage with drones. There is no subcap in the game that does more drone DPS than a plain old t1 dominix with T2 drones, and with this new version there still won't be.

I'm not looking for a broken bonus like the guardian-vexor, but anything better than the regular domi would be nice.



An extra mid can be used for a Target Painter (bigger sig means more/bigger hits) or you could add another Omni directional Tracking link (better tracking so more and bigger hits). Ether can add more DPS.


I also do not see any info posted that restricts these ships to the FW LP store. If the Navy ships are in normal LP stores these should be too. Sure your paying 2x the LP but it seems that FW LP is running on the 5 digit ISK to PL rate so "normal" LP stores sould still be the more affordable option.


Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:43:00 - [73]
 

Fleet tempest.. still VERY VERY weak 16% extra dps.. you could do it much more easily just giving an extra low slot instead of mid.


So this is a NERF to the ship when compared to the other navy ships. UNLESS ccp also pay attention on the largest and most visited thread on ship and modules forum on last 2 months and Boost the damm projectiles!


Fleet typhoon.. oo well now with 0% EPIC FACTOR! Wtf 1 less slot when comapred to other ships for the capability of just beign a BIT more focused on its weapons?


Would be ok if it was a 6/6 turret/missile hard points.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:44:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Bibbleibble
Edited by: Bibbleibble on 04/09/2009 17:45:44
Oh.... Surprised

Oh my.... Surprised

Dear God I want now!!!! Surprised



This Shocked

Lord Haur
Amarr
Grim Determination
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:44:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Ashina Sito
I also do not see any info posted that restricts these ships to the FW LP store. If the Navy ships are in normal LP stores these should be too. Sure your paying 2x the LP but it seems that FW LP is running on the 5 digit ISK to PL rate so "normal" LP stores sould still be the more affordable option.



Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
III. Navy Tier 1 Battleships:

Tier 1 battleships now have navy versions with new skins thanks to our Art department. These will be obtainable through Factional Warfare LP stores (and only through them) with 150k LPs, nexus chips and the proper base hull version.

L2Read?

Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:45:00 - [76]
 

CCP:

You might want to look into frigate CPUs. For example what did you expect to be able to fit into a navy Slicer with its 115cpu. A damage control alone takes 30cpu.

fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:45:00 - [77]
 

Just compare the PG of the Scorp (which looks like an shield version of the phoon) with the Phoon.

Dont be so stupid and give Caldari this bad powergrid over and over.

Your just taking away their flexibility...

Vylth
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:46:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Ashina Sito
Originally by: Vylth
...

An extra mid can be used for a Target Painter (bigger sig means more/bigger hits) or you could add another Omni directional Tracking link (better tracking so more and bigger hits). Ether can add more DPS.


Originally by: Roemy Schneider
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 04/09/2009 20:39:08
Originally by: Vylth
...
well... you get lots more cpu via that med slot which you could waste on a sentry damage augmentor... :o


Any ship can fit those mods, the navy one will be just a little more versatile.

Caroline Nikon
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:50:00 - [79]
 

Also.. Fleet tempest CANNOT FIT full racks of 1400mm even with the PG boost. The old one could. Increase it 700 PG more or the ship will be even more nerfed than it is now.

Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:50:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Lumy on 04/09/2009 20:51:38
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

Amarr Navy Slicer:
Bonuses: 25% to small energy turret damage and 10% to turret range bonus per Amarr Frigate skill level

Caldari Navy Hookbill:
Bonuses: 20% to missile kinetic damage, 10% to other missile damage, 10% to missile

Gallente Navy Comet:
Bonuses: 20% small hybrid turret damage and 7.5% small hybrid turret tracking per level

Republic Fleet Firetail:
Bonuses: 20% small projectile turret damage and 7.5% small projectile turret tracking per level

25% to small energy turret damage compared to 20% on others. Is it a typo?

Kayosoni
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:52:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: fuxinos
Just compare the PG of the Scorp (which looks like an shield version of the phoon) with the Phoon.

Dont be so stupid and give Caldari this bad powergrid over and over.

Your just taking away their flexibility...


you're dumb. Compare the navy scorp grid with the widow's grid.

Mavvaz
Dark Star Syndicate
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:53:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Kayosoni
Originally by: fuxinos
Just compare the PG of the Scorp (which looks like an shield version of the phoon) with the Phoon.

Dont be so stupid and give Caldari this bad powergrid over and over.

Your just taking away their flexibility...


you're dumb. Compare the navy scorp grid with the widow's grid.



Pfft go back to L2blah :)

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:54:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Lumy
25% to small energy turret damage compared to 20% on others. Is it a typo?


Of course not. They're catering to a rapidly increasing part of their player base. Amarr *is* FOTM according to the latest dev economics blog.

-Liang

foobarx
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:56:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/09/2009 20:24:48
Originally by: Cocurachan
Removing a med slot from the fleet pest really sucks. How is this Ship supposed to tank now ?

It's supposed to use armor tank.

Right. You're going to take the BS with the lowest DPS output and remove its weapon upgrades. Good luck with that.

Quote:
My normal Tempest eats Ravens to breakfast easily from time to time with an armor tank and dual heavy neuts.


Not without a huge SP disparity it doesn't. Ganking month-old players in their first level 4 mission doesn't count.

Quote:
EDIT: Now we just need the Projectile buff and i think an AC Fleet Tempest will be niiiiiice.

Perhaps, but until then plain vanilla tier 1 battleships from the other factions will be mopping the floor with the fleet tempest.

MalVortex
Applied Agoraphobia
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:57:00 - [85]
 

Geddon Navy and Scorpion navy seem overshadowed by their Tier 3 counterparts. Between the higher-base armor/shield and the resist bonus, these faction ships actually carry less real buffer than the Abaddon or Rokh. While the Navy Tier 1s do carry an extra low/mid on their primary tanking rack, and extra fitting, I don't see them coming out ahead. Any gains they do achieve will be completley overshadowed by their cost - which will be rather high given the FW LP only.

They need to do something more unique than "buffer laser" or "buffer missile"... These rolls frankly already exist. The extra drone space on the Armageddon is also somewhat wasted, given that it needs those 5x heavy drones for a large chunk of its damage. Directly boosting their hull bonuses would be preferable. Something between 6% to 7.5% ROF/level instead of 5%/level would at least bring something unique to these hulls besides easier fitting and more armor.

In a similar vein, I'm still unimpressed by the Apocalypse Navy. Its easy to fit, and can get some nice buffer... But so does the Abaddon. Its too expensive to snipe with (and does nothing unique in this regard over the T1 apoc anyways), and pulse lasers have no real use for the range bonus now that nano-cruisers are dead. Going from 15km to 21km on MF, and 45km to 60km on scorch, simply doesn't do much. The base ranges are already quite sufficient. Id really like to see the optimal range bonus either increased to 10%/level, or changed to a 7.5% tracking bonus a la the Redeemer. As it stands, the Apoc navy is yet another armor buffer amarr laser ship, with absolutely on new take on that roll. Better tracking, or great pulse laser range, would at least spice this up a bit. There are too many amarr battleships competing for the same combat niche.

Sera Ryskin
Posted - 2009.09.04 21:00:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 04/09/2009 21:01:22
Overall these changes look like a step in the right direction, pending fitting tests on the actual server to see if you've given them a proper amount of grid/CPU, with two exceptions:



1) The Navy Hookbill: it is a railboat, and it should continue to be a railboat. Please remember that Caldari use more than just missiles, and deserve some attention paid to their other weapon systems. Also, since frigate missiles are currently laughably bad, this is not a good change.

Instead, give it 25% hybrid turret damage, 10% hybrid optimal range, and 5% shield resists, with enough grid to fit a full rack of 150mm rails, a MWD, cap booster, and medium shield extender without any grid mods (to make it different from the Harpy, which can not fit as good a mid-range setup). Keeping both extra high slots with enough grid/CPU to fit T2 standard launchers would be even more awesome.



2) The Navy Scorpion: honestly, this is just terrible, and arguably even worse than a standard Raven. Sure, it's got a ton of EHP, a resist bonus, and 8 slots for tank, but in PvP dps is FAR more important than tank, and the missing launcher compared to the standard Raven is a huge drawback, while the missing range bonus takes away one of the Raven's major advantages. Add in the huge price thanks to only being available with FW LPs, and you have a ship that will see little use.


I honestly don't know what to do with this one without just making a better torp Raven. Perhaps dust off that old ECM/gank Scorpion you had when you were nerfing ECM ships? 6 launchers, ROF bonus, 30% ECM strength per level would be a fun ship to fly, if a bit expensive considering its chances of being immediately primaried.

Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.09.04 21:02:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Lord Haur

L2Read?


Missed it, thanks. No need to be trollish.

Kayosoni
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.04 21:02:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 04/09/2009 21:01:22
Overall these changes look like a step in the right direction, pending fitting tests on the actual server to see if you've given them a proper amount of grid/CPU, with two exceptions:



1) The Navy Hookbill: it is a railboat, and it should continue to be a railboat. Please remember that Caldari use more than just missiles, and deserve some attention paid to their other weapon systems. Also, since frigate missiles are currently laughably bad, this is not a good change.

Instead, give it 25% hybrid turret damage, 10% hybrid optimal range, and 5% shield resists, with enough grid to fit a full rack of 150mm rails, a MWD, cap booster, and medium shield extender without any grid mods (to make it different from the Harpy, which can not fit as good a mid-range setup). Keeping both extra high slots with enough grid/CPU to fit T2 standard launchers would be even more awesome.



2) The Navy Scorpion: honestly, this is just terrible, and arguably even worse than a standard Raven. Sure, it's got a ton of EHP, a resist bonus, and 8 slots for tank, but in PvP dps is FAR more important than tank, and the missing launcher compared to the standard Raven is a huge drawback, while the missing range bonus takes away one of the Raven's major advantages. Add in the huge price thanks to only being available with FW LPs, and you have a ship that will see little use.


I honestly don't know what to do with this one without just making a better torp Raven. Perhaps dust off that old ECM/gank Scorpion you had when you were nerfing ECM ships? 6 launchers, ROF bonus, 30% ECM strength per level would be a fun ship to fly, if a bit expensive considering its chances of being immediately primaried.


wouldn't mind seeing the gank ecm scorp either, although the widow already plays that role even better.

Caroline Nikon
Posted - 2009.09.04 21:03:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: MalVortex
Geddon Navy and Scorpion navy seem overshadowed by their Tier 3 counterparts. Between the higher-base armor/shield and the resist bonus, these faction ships actually carry less real buffer than the Abaddon or Rokh. While the Navy Tier 1s do carry an extra low/mid on their primary tanking rack, and extra fitting, I don't see them coming out ahead. Any gains they do achieve will be completley overshadowed by their cost - which will be rather high given the FW LP only.

They need to do something more unique than "buffer laser" or "buffer missile"... These rolls frankly already exist. The extra drone space on the Armageddon is also somewhat wasted, given that it needs those 5x heavy drones for a large chunk of its damage. Directly boosting their hull bonuses would be preferable. Something between 6% to 7.5% ROF/level instead of 5%/level would at least bring something unique to these hulls besides easier fitting and more armor.

In a similar vein, I'm still unimpressed by the Apocalypse Navy. Its easy to fit, and can get some nice buffer... But so does the Abaddon. Its too expensive to snipe with (and does nothing unique in this regard over the T1 apoc anyways), and pulse lasers have no real use for the range bonus now that nano-cruisers are dead. Going from 15km to 21km on MF, and 45km to 60km on scorch, simply doesn't do much. The base ranges are already quite sufficient. Id really like to see the optimal range bonus either increased to 10%/level, or changed to a 7.5% tracking bonus a la the Redeemer. As it stands, the Apoc navy is yet another armor buffer amarr laser ship, with absolutely on new take on that roll. Better tracking, or great pulse laser range, would at least spice this up a bit. There are too many amarr battleships competing for the same combat niche.


You realize how OMFG overpowered a 7.5% ROF geddon would be? Unless of course ALL ships got their 5% bonuses changed into 7.5% ones... (look for the tasty tempest that has 2 of thsoe to change :P )

NightmareX
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.09.04 21:10:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: NightmareX on 04/09/2009 21:13:53
Originally by: foobarx
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/09/2009 20:24:48
Originally by: Cocurachan
Removing a med slot from the fleet pest really sucks. How is this Ship supposed to tank now ?

It's supposed to use armor tank.

Right. You're going to take the BS with the lowest DPS output and remove its weapon upgrades. Good luck with that.

Quote:
My normal Tempest eats Ravens to breakfast easily from time to time with an armor tank and dual heavy neuts.


Not without a huge SP disparity it doesn't. Ganking month-old players in their first level 4 mission doesn't count.

Quote:
EDIT: Now we just need the Projectile buff and i think an AC Fleet Tempest will be niiiiiice.

Perhaps, but until then plain vanilla tier 1 battleships from the other factions will be mopping the floor with the fleet tempest.

1. Well don't whine to early, it's still some time until Dominion expansion will be out. And before that time, we might be lucky and have the Projectile boost in before the expansion is out. Yeah lets just hope they will fix them before that lol.

2. I have seriously ****d a Raven pilot with 55+ mill SP in total and 10+ mill SP in missiles where he have maxed most of his Torpedo skills in my normal t2 fitted close range Tempest. He didn't even take my armor longer down than 80%Laughing. And no, he's not a mission runner or a carebear.

And no, those who says solo or small gangs are dead are really really wrong, so the Tempest is still good there.

Raven's and Amarr BS'es are the easiest targets to fight in my Tempest. Those ships dies to easy to my Tempest.

3. Well lets see how the new Tempest Fleet Issue is working before you say anything about that.


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