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Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.09.29 06:56:00 - [811]
 

Originally by: Ahz

Of course, I don't know who will ever put guns on one again, but that's a different problem.



Well, projectiles are getting boosted. And also, even ACs will give you much better operational range than torps, and are ridiculously easy to fit. Sure, most setups will probably go for an in-your-face torp setup, but ACs (with Barrage) can be pretty nasty too (coupled with lots of neuts, for example).

Veryez
Posted - 2009.09.29 08:55:00 - [812]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Further changes.

Typhoon:

Slot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)

Tempest:

Hitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)

Typhoon Fleet Issue:

Slot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)

Tempest Fleet Issue:

Slot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7)
Hitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)


68 mil SP and I can finaly fly the phoon correctly, you then change it into the stuff of dreams, please make these changes. The Tempest changes are meh, but perhaps w/the projectile changes might turn out ok.

Caldor Mansi
Posted - 2009.09.29 09:16:00 - [813]
 

Edited by: Caldor Mansi on 29/09/2009 09:20:04
Moved..





Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.09.29 11:32:00 - [814]
 

Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Ahz

Of course, I don't know who will ever put guns on one again, but that's a different problem.



Well, projectiles are getting boosted. And also, even ACs will give you much better operational range than torps, and are ridiculously easy to fit. Sure, most setups will probably go for an in-your-face torp setup, but ACs (with Barrage) can be pretty nasty too (coupled with lots of neuts, for example).



Even with AC ammo boost, the torpedoes are a whole class superior. They can reach around 18 km with NO damage reduction from range with already WAY higher base DPS and sicne they are missiles and ignore the tracking from your own ship moving Fast (somethign typhoon can do) they are the perfect choice.

People will use AC only when usign a full 8 rack of guns (5 torps 3 AC)

Potrero
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2009.09.29 15:33:00 - [815]
 

Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Ahz

Of course, I don't know who will ever put guns on one again, but that's a different problem.



Well, projectiles are getting boosted. And also, even ACs will give you much better operational range than torps, and are ridiculously easy to fit. Sure, most setups will probably go for an in-your-face torp setup, but ACs (with Barrage) can be pretty nasty too (coupled with lots of neuts, for example).



Even with AC ammo boost, the torpedoes are a whole class superior. They can reach around 18 km with NO damage reduction from range with already WAY higher base DPS and sicne they are missiles and ignore the tracking from your own ship moving Fast (somethign typhoon can do) they are the perfect choice.

People will use AC only when usign a full 8 rack of guns (5 torps 3 AC)
Yeah, pretty sure this will officially turn the phoon into a torpedo boat.

Maybe the Fleet Issue should get the 5/5 = 8 layout but the standard phoon should stay at 4/4 = 8.

Personally I'm okay with having to make these trade-offs with the current ship.

Oedepus
Posted - 2009.09.29 15:59:00 - [816]
 

Played around with some Hookbill fits. =/ I feel the proposed CAP, PG, CPU and slot layout make it almost useless.

I would much prefer to see this ship get fit with 4 turret slots with the CAP, PG and CPU to fit a proper tank and tackle with adjusted bonuses to match. If it is to remain a missile ship then at least give it 4 launcher slots and still boost the CAP, PG and CPU to provide for a decent tank and tackle.

The Hawk is the T2 missle varient for the Caldari AF and it is considered to be one of the worst AFs in game. Why make a T1 version of it that can't fight it's way out of .7 astroid belt.

If the current changes for the Hookbill make it into the game I'll give mine away as I'll no longer have a need for it.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.09.29 16:28:00 - [817]
 

Yeah, I tried putting SMLs, MWD, MSE buffer, disruptor and then some ewar on the Hookbill, making a nice kiting frigate with ewar. But the fittings were hopelessly inadequate. Sad

Orakkus
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Posted - 2009.09.29 16:32:00 - [818]
 

Originally by: Seishi Maru


Even with AC ammo boost, the torpedoes are a whole class superior. They can reach around 18 km with NO damage reduction from range with already WAY higher base DPS and sicne they are missiles and ignore the tracking from your own ship moving Fast (somethign typhoon can do) they are the perfect choice.

People will use AC only when usign a full 8 rack of guns (5 torps 3 AC)


Maybe. I don't think they will have the CPU/PG to go with a 5 torp/3 AC setup without gimping the tank or the versatility. You will probably see some glass tank versions, but I think for the most part the 5 AC, 3 Torp will be the more likely to happen.

Ahz
Posted - 2009.09.29 16:51:00 - [819]
 

Originally by: Orakkus
Originally by: Seishi Maru


Even with AC ammo boost, the torpedoes are a whole class superior. They can reach around 18 km with NO damage reduction from range with already WAY higher base DPS and sicne they are missiles and ignore the tracking from your own ship moving Fast (somethign typhoon can do) they are the perfect choice.

People will use AC only when usign a full 8 rack of guns (5 torps 3 AC)


Maybe. I don't think they will have the CPU/PG to go with a 5 torp/3 AC setup without gimping the tank or the versatility. You will probably see some glass tank versions, but I think for the most part the 5 AC, 3 Torp will be the more likely to happen.
My current fit on Sisi

- 5x Torp
- 3x Heavy Diminishing

- 1x Web II
- 1x Scram II
- 1x Cap Booster
- 1x 100mn AB II

- 1x ENAM
- 2x Hardners
- 2x Ballistic Control II
- 1x Heavy Repper II
- 1x Damage Control II

Current Router Rigs to make it fit + 1 CCC (I think)

That's with 7 lows. I'm sure everyone can think of a couple of things to do with the proposed 8th low slot.

Galdethi
Caldari
TARDZ
Posted - 2009.09.29 19:30:00 - [820]
 

Well speaking as a mish runner who uses a passive tank on his CNR (and has spent shedloads on maxing all the skills for it and the imps) I think the shield regen change for all navy BS's is BS, its only going to nerf passive tanking CNR's and do buggerall to the rest who dont shield tank anyway.

Orakkus
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Posted - 2009.09.29 20:01:00 - [821]
 

Originally by: Ahz
My current fit on Sisi

- 5x Torp
- 3x Heavy Diminishing

- 1x Web II
- 1x Scram II
- 1x Cap Booster
- 1x 100mn AB II

- 1x ENAM
- 2x Hardners
- 2x Ballistic Control II
- 1x Heavy Repper II
- 1x Damage Control II

Current Router Rigs to make it fit + 1 CCC (I think)

That's with 7 lows. I'm sure everyone can think of a couple of things to do with the proposed 8th low slot.


Yeah, I was right though. You gimped your tank pretty severely to get that to work (PG rigs instead of tanking rigs, no armor plates, no armor repping rigs). A single local rep might be enough when fielding three neuts against an opponent (though in practice myself, two were usually sufficent). Also looks like you are using named T1 Siege launchers instead of T2 variants. Same with the Cap booster, are you running a Heavy or just a medium? It would be interesting though after the projectile changes to see what the difference will be in damage output.

wallenbergaren
Posted - 2009.09.29 20:04:00 - [822]
 

Edited by: wallenbergaren on 29/09/2009 20:11:28
k, so pls tell me wtf the slicer is losing CPU?
What do you expect us to use the extra low for without CPU?

Ahz
Posted - 2009.09.29 21:15:00 - [823]
 

Originally by: Orakkus
Originally by: Ahz
My current fit on Sisi

- 5x Arbi Torp
- 3x Heavy Diminishing

- 1x Web II
- 1x Scram II
- 1x Heavy Cap Booster II
- 1x 100mn AB II

- 1x ENAM
- 2x Hardners
- 2x Ballistic Control II
- 1x Heavy Repper II
- 1x Damage Control II

Current Router Rigs to make it fit + 1 CCC (I think)

That's with 7 lows. I'm sure everyone can think of a couple of things to do with the proposed 8th low slot.


Yeah, I was right though. You gimped your tank pretty severely to get that to work (PG rigs instead of tanking rigs, no armor plates, no armor repping rigs). A single local rep might be enough when fielding three neuts against an opponent (though in practice myself, two were usually sufficent). Also looks like you are using named T1 Siege launchers instead of T2 variants. Same with the Cap booster, are you running a Heavy or just a medium? It would be interesting though after the projectile changes to see what the difference will be in damage output.


Fixed. And you're right. Not the toughest of tanks. But again, we just got another low.

Orakkus
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Posted - 2009.09.29 22:02:00 - [824]
 

As I said, maybe :).

Either way, I'd like to know how well you do against Mega/Domis and Amarr battleships on Sisi.

Ahz
Posted - 2009.09.29 22:35:00 - [825]
 

Originally by: Orakkus
As I said, maybe :).

Either way, I'd like to know how well you do against Mega/Domis and Amarr battleships on Sisi.
So would I.

Look me up on Sisi and we'll find out.

So far I've taken it out 3 times: A win and a loss against two Nightmares. A loss to a Navy Domi.

But that was with seven low slots. I now have eight.

Dfire
Amarr
R.U.S.H
Red Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.30 08:34:00 - [826]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Further changes.

Tempest:

Hitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)



Plz, Do not do it!!! Rolling Eyes

OSGOD
Posted - 2009.09.30 13:39:00 - [827]
 

Edited by: OSGOD on 30/09/2009 13:48:49
is navythron gonna get its 50% bonus to large hybrid turrets back u bunch of mofo`s

Orakkus
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Posted - 2009.09.30 16:02:00 - [828]
 

Originally by: Ahz


Look me up on Sisi and we'll find out.

So far I've taken it out 3 times: A win and a loss against two Nightmares. A loss to a Navy Domi.

But that was with seven low slots. I now have eight.


Yeah, sounds like a plan. It'll take me a bit to get SiSi test connection setup, but once I do I'll look for ya.

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.09.30 17:24:00 - [829]
 

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
I HAVE A DREAM!


[Tempest, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II

Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I

Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5

+10% speed and agility

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.09.30 17:34:00 - [830]
 

maybe we need subsystems for the tempest so everyone can pick his slot layout -.-

Ulstan
Posted - 2009.09.30 18:04:00 - [831]
 

Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Ahz

Of course, I don't know who will ever put guns on one again, but that's a different problem.



Well, projectiles are getting boosted. And also, even ACs will give you much better operational range than torps, and are ridiculously easy to fit. Sure, most setups will probably go for an in-your-face torp setup, but ACs (with Barrage) can be pretty nasty too (coupled with lots of neuts, for example).



Even with AC ammo boost, the torpedoes are a whole class superior.


Well they ought to be generally superiour considering their much higher fitting cost than AC's. I have no trouble with the typhoon generally being used as a missile boat - it's about time Minmatar had a good missile boat BS, given how 'versatile' they are suppoesd to be.

And I think AC typhoons still have their advantages and uses.

Ecky X
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2009.09.30 20:37:00 - [832]
 

Why does CCP insist all Minmatar ships be armor tankers?

Makalu Zarya
Posted - 2009.09.30 22:03:00 - [833]
 

the colors on the navy mega and domi are really not that great, i vote to change navy mega to what it used to be and give the same c/s to the navy domi as well

just my 2 cents

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.30 22:39:00 - [834]
 

Edited by: Seriously Bored on 30/09/2009 22:39:58
Originally by: Ecky X
Why does CCP insist all Minmatar ships be armor tankers?


The Maelstrom, Cyclone, Vagabond, nano-Cane, Rapier, Sleipnir, Vargur, Scimitar, and Broadsword would like to have words with you...

ED: Forgot a couple. Wink

Manique
Caldari
Ominous Corp
Posted - 2009.09.30 23:38:00 - [835]
 

Originally by: Cordo Draken
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships:
General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.



0.0 Ah, take away one of the main strengths of the Caldari. With all the Nuets out there, this makes perfect sense to surplunge the CNR completely! That kills that tank.

As with everyone else here I think, We enjoy the added goodies you guys at CCP develop for us, but seriously, it seems like not everything is thought out thoroughly. Many would argue favorites in the race category. Please don't make Caldari and Minmatar the red-headed step children you just bash around with nerf fury. It really kinda kills it for that half of the universe, and with all the posts to back, seems very obvious. Shocked


As a caldari player I have to agree with this. At least give the navy raven some defence against neuts/nos.

Mojster Pek
Posted - 2009.10.01 00:39:00 - [836]
 

give the navy mega more base armor! EVEN THE NAVY DOMINIX AND FLEET TEMPEST HAVE MORE! WTF?(+1000 armor hp would be great)

and keep the old pwg and cpu, so only a pro could fit it!...with the new buff on pwg and cpu any noob could fit allmost anything he likes on the ship...

MAKE US THINK HOW WE SHOULD FIT OUR SHIPS..
the navy mega has allways been 'the seperator' between stupid ppl(and how they fit it) and 'the smart' ppl... you could allways tell just by looking at the guns if the dude is active or buffer tank, if he's got an injector or a neut or mwd... how much pwg are his guns useing, and suspect how the rest of ships is fitted...
but with the new navy mega... everybody is just gonna have the neutron blasters and you could never tell if he's got an injector or neut or mwd or even repair, and never guess the weak point...

and what's with the firetail ? it should be the fastest ship out there...

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.10.01 11:20:00 - [837]
 

Originally by: Mojster Pek
give the navy mega more base armor! EVEN THE NAVY DOMINIX AND FLEET TEMPEST HAVE MORE! WTF?(+1000 armor hp would be great)
you are aware that you'd have to trade in structure hp, right?

Sebroth
Posted - 2009.10.01 12:07:00 - [838]
 

I like the idea of making the tempest hull armor tankers. Why?
This is why:

Maelstrom Sheild + Turret weapon platform
Tempest Armor + Turret
Typhoon Armor + 'hybrid'

If the tempest hull would be more of a shield tanker you get:

Maelstrom Shield + Turret weapon platform
Tempest Shield + Turret
Typhoon Armor + 'hybrid'


So with a armor tanking tempest we get 3 "unic" minmatar battleships. Yes I dont shuffle in faction battleships in the minmatar lineup. Angel ships are not minmatar ships in my book and should not be treated like they are. It is always harder to balance 2 ships that basicly do the same then 2 that are not. The armor/turret tempest would also be the natural choise for the young minmatar pilots with most sp in projectiles and armor tanking. The few that have more sp in shield will have the maelstom at BS level. Im not 100% sure but I do have a feeling most minmatar pilots first go projectile + amor then they add shield and last they add missiles (and drones mix in it all ofc). Just like I did.

I do agree that the game have to many ships focused on armor tanking but I dont think 2/3 of the minmatar BSs should be shield tankers just to balance it out. Specially not when the 3rd BS and only alternative is the most skill intensive (sub capital) ship in game.

Imho they should remove more hp from shield and add some extra armor hp to even more make the tempest hull a armor tanker.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.10.01 12:20:00 - [839]
 

Originally by: wallenbergaren
Edited by: wallenbergaren on 29/09/2009 20:11:28
k, so pls tell me wtf the slicer is losing CPU?
What do you expect us to use the extra low for without CPU?


Co-processor II Laughing

Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.01 13:12:00 - [840]
 

Originally by: Ecky X
Why does CCP insist all Minmatar ships be armor tankers?


Maybe because they change the Naglfar to shield tankers. :D
You feel the CCP logic ? Twisted Evil


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