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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:09:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Markus Reese
Torpion!!!! I cannot wait to build my torpion! guess torp raven will be retired soon...


6 launchers still win out;)

Vestus Regula
The Black Dawn Gang
High Treason Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:09:00 - [32]
 

w00t... more ECM nerf! Isn't the hammer comming down way too often on this one?

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:10:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/09/2009 19:12:09
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

Originally by: Areo Hotah
Why are the Minmatar the only battleships who do not get additional mid and low slots, but only more turret hardpoints?


Raven Navy Issue does not receive extra mid/low slots as well. Adding more DPS is worth the slot don't you think? The Scorpion Navy Issue also receives an extra high slot with its 5th launcheer but this is due to its role change, as it is based on an ECM hull.



Not really. For your edification and perusal:
A large discussion on what the Tempest does and doesn't need: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1130224
A CSM topic to fix the Tempest and projectiles: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1165197
Pretty much everyone thinks Minmatar BS's and projectiles suck: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1051722

So what you're really saying here is that you're removing a mid, removing a utility high, and boosting the Tempest's damage a bit and calling it good. At the same time you're boosting all the other faction battleships. Sweet... thanks, another subpar Minmatar BS CCP!

-Liang

DelboyTrotter
Trotters Independent Trading
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:11:00 - [34]
 

Love the New Phoon but...

WTF Have you done to the Fleet Pest???

Quote:
Tempest Fleet Issue:

New slot layout: 8 high, 5 med, 6 low slots, 7 turrets, 4 launchers
Fittings: 577 CPU, 17050 powergrid
Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged
Speed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10%


You removed a midslot on the Faction Ship with the worst tank... why so much hate for Minmatar?

OK it does more damage but why change the 6/6 slot layout to 5/6 ? make it 6/6 again or 5/7.

fab24
Gallente
Tax Fraud Corporation
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:12:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Areo Hotah
Why are the Minmatar the only battleships who do not get additional mid and low slots, but only more turret hardpoints?


Yeah, stop nerfing minmatars...

Jessica Bains
Silicon Moon
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:19:00 - [36]
 

Domi has always been one of my favorite BS.

Long before there were T2 BS, I was hoping for some kind of "improved" version of it.

Then came Black Ops, which filled a different role and weren't really what I had in mind.

Eventually...here it is, the Navy Domi! Thanks a ton!!!

Also for the other new Tier1 Navy Ships and for polishing the Tier2 ones.

Jillius
Gallente
Valheru Empire Science and Production Agency
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:22:00 - [37]
 

Dominix Navy Issue! Shocked

I love you CCP...

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:23:00 - [38]
 

Yitters, why does my precious Navy Domi not use 10 Ogre IIs at once, instead of 5?

Lacen Wolk
Deadly Influence
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:24:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Lacen Wolk on 04/09/2009 19:24:33
Would it be possible to add faction bonuses to frigs, for example Gallente Navy Comet: 5% bonus to scram range per level.
That would make them way more useful than they are now.

God GirlFriend
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:27:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: DelboyTrotter
Love the New Phoon but...

WTF Have you done to the Fleet Pest???

Quote:
Tempest Fleet Issue:

New slot layout: 8 high, 5 med, 6 low slots, 7 turrets, 4 launchers
Fittings: 577 CPU, 17050 powergrid
Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged
Speed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10%


You removed a midslot on the Faction Ship with the worst tank... why so much hate for Minmatar?

OK it does more damage but why change the 6/6 slot layout to 5/6 ? make it 6/6 again or 5/7.




NOPE.. ccp removed 2 SLOTS FORM TEMPEST! ! from mid 1 from high. Now tempest fleet issue has the damage a normal BS from a proper hull have.. but not the high slot advantages that tempest usually have and not the lots of mids that it used to have.


BUT.. even so I think the speed boost combined with the 7th turrets are barely acceptable.

Areo Hotah
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:27:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

Originally by: Areo Hotah
Why are the Minmatar the only battleships who do not get additional mid and low slots, but only more turret hardpoints?


Raven Navy Issue does not receive extra mid/low slots as well. Adding more DPS is worth the slot don't you think? The Scorpion Navy Issue also receives an extra high slot with its 5th launcheer but this is due to its role change, as it is based on an ECM hull.



Keep in mind that an extra low-slot could mean you can squeeze on an additional damage mod, or more tank, depending on what you want, and I don't know a single ship fitting that wouldn't benefit from an additional mid-slot (as long as they can fit it).
A 7th turret slot on the tempest is +16.7% dps, but only if you actually fit the gun. And as mentioned before, it's going to be a pain to fit artilleries, I think.

From 4/4 to 5/5 is only a marginal increase. The 5/5 slot layout should be on the basic 'phoon, but that is not what we discuss here. A lot of gank-phoons already had all the high slots full, so it only makes the choice easier of which damage mod you want to fit in a 5/3 setup. For RR-BS something similar goes, but not everybody fits damage mods on them. As with the Tempest, the Typhoon has serious fitting problems: no grid for something long-range with arties, and very very tight on CPU. With the Navy 'phoon, I am not so sure if you could squeeze on 5 siege launchers with 2 BCU, and the usual other slots. It received 10% more CPU, and that is quite something, but not sure if it is enough. If you go AC's, it's the problem of large projectiles being bad in general compared to other BS turrets.


So in my opinion, an additional low or mid slot is more valuable than an additional hardpoint. If you stick to the slots, then the Tempest needs more grid to comfortably allow for a 7-slot 1400mm setup, and the 'phoon probably also needs some additional CPU and grid, and I wouldn't mind if you tweaked a bit with the bonuses, for example changing 5% ROF in 7.5% ROF or damage.



Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:28:00 - [42]
 

This is very nice. A major step forward. I like the two-turrets-with-huge-dmg-bonuses thing going on with the Slicer.

I also very much enjoy the Navy Scorpion and Armageddon. Replacement drones will be very nice to have. I can't wait to hear what you're changing with respect to faction cruisers and pirate BS.

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:35:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 04/09/2009 22:50:02
calling dibs on

[Armageddon Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Internal Force Field Array I
Reactor Control Unit II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution

Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Bouncer II x5
Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot II x2


yes, fits perfectly - try this in EFT in a regular geddon without the sensor booster

Kayosoni
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:35:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Kayosoni on 04/09/2009 20:30:04
Quote:
Dominix Navy Issue:

Slot layout: 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots, 6 turrets, no launchers
Fittings: 660 CPU, 9900 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots
Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9961), armor (9316) and shields (8203)
Capacitor: +5% max capacitor (5250 capacitor, 1087.5s recharge)
Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged
Sensor: +25% magnetometric sensor strength


sorry but 6 mids and 7 lows for a battleship that uses drones as its main DPS is horribly unbalanced slot configuration compared to other BS. Far too much versatility.

scorp: I CAME

tempest: DPS is an issue with autocannons sucking, not the ship, but if you insist on giving it 7 turret and taking away a slot, take away a lowslot and keep the 6 mids.

typhoon: give it same treatment as scorp: 5 turrets, turret rof bonus, armor resist bonus.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:42:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Kayosoni
Quote:
Dominix Navy Issue:

• Slot layout: 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots, 6 turrets, no launchers
• Fittings: 660 CPU, 9900 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots
• Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9961), armor (9316) and shields (8203)
• Capacitor: +5% max capacitor (5250 capacitor, 1087.5s recharge)
• Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged
• Sensor: +25% magnetometric sensor strength


sorry but 6 mids and 7 lows for a battleship that uses drones as its main DPS is horribly unbalanced slot configuration compared to other BS. Far too much versatility.


It will be a beast, and a deamon in RR. :P

AtheistOfDoom
Amarr
Invicta.
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:43:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Vestus Regula
w00t... more ECM nerf! Isn't the hammer comming down way too often on this one?

Dude it's CCP. I like the changes to the navy mega though.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:48:00 - [47]
 

One question tho, why limit the new cool BSs to FW? Why not let us regular guys fighting our own wars get some shineies as well? :)

Torrealmenada
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:50:00 - [48]
 

What about Cruisers?!?

Kayosoni
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:54:00 - [49]
 

Quote:
Caldari Navy Hookbill:

New slot layout: 3 high, 5 med, 2 low slots, 3 launchers, no turrets
Fittings: 165 CPU, 37 powergrid
Bonuses: 20% to missile kinetic damage, 10% to other missile damage, 10% to missile velocity per level
Hitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Merlin)
Capacitor: 281 capacitor, 187.5s recharge (about 1.5 cap/s)
Speed: 370m/s, 3.3 agility
Sensor: 35km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 600mm scan resolution, 12 gravimetric sensor strength, 40m signature radius



ok so, you took away the little ability of tank it had (resist bonus) to give it a missile velocity bonus, and then you gave it a completely CRAP targeting range is probably about half of the missile range, so that you also need to fit 2 sensor boosters to fire at the range you have, making it have 0 tanking ability at all.

cool assault frigate.

foobarx
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:57:00 - [50]
 

I agree with Liang. These changes make the Tempest, already the worst battleship in the game, even more... worst.

Vertical Axis
Posted - 2009.09.04 19:58:00 - [51]
 

I like these ideas, esp the idea of more faction bs.

I do appreciate that you're taking the time to look at the tempest fleet issue, as it is one of the more useless faction bs out there. Its problem at present is insufficient slots to armor tank efficiently or shield tank efficiently, while having the added problem of not doing much dps.

While the addition of a 7th turret slot helps the dps issue, removing a midslot means that this ship's only option for tanking is going to be via armor, and there's only 6 lowslots. This is going to be insufficient and basically makes it so that the ship will still not be very useful.

I would suggest taking the old slot layout and swapping a mid for a low, or vice versa. Removing a mid and not replacing it makes the ship even harder to use effectively.

Also, I am not sure that the agility / speed bonuses on both minmtar battleships will matter. Battleships as a rule more or less sit still and pound at each other because of transversal issues, their low speeds (150-200 m/s without mwd or ab), and low agility (usually 10 seconds plus align time). Giving these battleships 10% more speed and 10% more agility makes them slightly faster and agile, but they'll still be bricks and they'll still be used essentially to sit still and pound. If the intent is to create a vaga-bs for minmatar (a ship that mwd's around, orbits at 20, and uses transversal to tank), I would suggest buffing the agility or speed of these ships even further or making it be 5% per bs level or something so that they actually have the ability to orbit at range and skirmish.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:06:00 - [52]
 

Any plans to update the sexiest frig in game, the Dramiel, with similar stats as the navy frigs?

Chronos VIII
Amarr
Cataclysm Enterprises
Ev0ke
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:06:00 - [53]
 

I came

Cocurachan
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:10:00 - [54]
 

Removing a med slot from the fleet pest really sucks. How is this Ship supposed to tank now ?

Efdi
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:10:00 - [55]
 

You've screwed up the electronics balance for the frigates.

In all other classes, Minmatar ships have the worst lock range and sensor strength in exchange for having the highest scan res. Caldari have the longest lock range and highest sensor strength, but the worst scan res. Amarr and Gallente ships fall in between. Instead you seem to have given the Navy Hookbill the highest scan res and nerfed the Fleet Firetail even further. You should probably fix this before you release this expansion~

Comparison of Tier 2 Battlecruisers:

Drake
Targeting range: 60km
Sensor strength: 19
Scan res: 195mm

Myrmidon
Targeting range: 55km
Sensor strength: 18
Scan res: 200mm

Harbinger
Targeting range: 50km
Sensor strength: 16
Scan res: 210mm

Hurricane
Targeting range: 45km
Sensor strength: 16
Scan res: 220mm

Comparison of Logistics:

Basilisk
Targeting range: 80km
Sensor strength: 22
Scan res: 350mm

Onieros
Targeting range: 70km
Sensor strength: 20
Scan res: 365mm

Guardian
Targeting range: 65km
Sensor strength: 18
Scan res: 385mm

Scimitar
Targeting range: 60km
Sensor strength: 17
Scan res: 400mm

Kayosoni
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:13:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Originally by: Markus Reese
Torpion!!!! I cannot wait to build my torpion! guess torp raven will be retired soon...


6 launchers still win out;)


uh no. Navy scorp like this is pretty much amazing, and 5 torps with drones is still 750-800 DPS.

Tuberider
Pothouse Cartel
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:14:00 - [57]
 

ShockedAT LASTShocked
T1 faction bs
Makes me a happy camper indeed Very Happy

Milo Caman
Gallente
Anshar Incorporated
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:18:00 - [58]
 

Knew It was worth buying a Comet =D

Companion Qube
Minmatar
Electron Conservation Inc
SRS.
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:19:00 - [59]
 

This is awesome, now put them on the market instead of making us need contracts.

Kayosoni
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.04 20:19:00 - [60]
 



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