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Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.10.06 19:48:00 - [61]
 

Someday I plan to fix my outlaw status and start missioning on my Matari ..... NAAAAAH who am I kidding!?

-Liang

Julie Thorne
14th Legion
Posted - 2009.10.06 19:59:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Tyler Lowe
I'm likewise interested in mission times, and even more to the point, the average ship bounty per 20 minute polling period, and the maximum you ever see in each ship. The best I ever did in an Ambit Vargur, vs any NPC type was vs Angels and I hit ~12M isk in a 20 minute period. The best I have seen so far in a rigor cruise Golem was just shy of 14M isk vs Serpentis. Vs Angels, that same ship was pulling around 11M, so not far behind the Vargur, and probably due as much to travel times and warp alignment as much as any other factor.


Sorry I won't give out my mission times, setup, and my age Laughing

Average bounty is around 10-14m, obviously heavily depends on the missions. Best I ever had was just over 20m and we have a 5% tax, so actually it was 21.3-21.5m. The mission was Blockade vs Angels ofc, it's really easy to finish it in 20 minutes (or 15 for that matter Razz), but not all versions give the same bounty. In that mission I could get at least 5 mill more but I always run out of NPCs.

I don't know what your problem was but you didn't mention ABs. And yeah the Golem is better vs Serps (till Dominion), I was really happy to finally find a mission in which it excelled. Btw do you run missions in Gallente or Minmatar space?

Quote:

As for mission completion times, the fastest so far has varied by ship and rig fit. Torps are really, really good in missions like Damsel in Distress, but in missions like Pirate Invasion, I usually have the closer NPC spawns dead long before the more distant spawns can even begin to close to within even Jav Torp range while Fury Cruise are eating them alive at 85km+.



I use an AB and aggro to get everything in range. And it works so far. Sadly my Golem has a much weaker tank than my Vargur (1 less tanking slot does have a noticeable effect) so I always have to play it smart. Probably with a cap booster fit it would be different, but I don't like cap booster fits Embarassed.

Julie Thorne
14th Legion
Posted - 2009.10.06 20:12:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Julie Thorne on 06/10/2009 20:22:28
Originally by: Seriously Bored

I'm having a little trouble believing all of it (the Vargur outperformed the CNR all the time?), but I'm glad to hear from someone with first-hand experience that they're pretty comparable inside Minmatar space.


As said it wasn't a really fair comparison, but I'd never even think about running Angel missions in a CNR instead of my Vargur. And tbh it's not just the mission completion times, I really hate cruise missiles. They kill all the (arguably not much to begin with) fun in mission-running.

Quote:

I'm determined never to train Caldari BS, (because I'm an obstinate masochist) but I may have to just to make an objective comparison some day.


Heh, I felt that Caldari was the Dark Side to missionrunners, but I had a fairly long break and I had to train something... I already had the torp skills, and I wanted to see what all this hype was about.

VanNostrum
Posted - 2009.10.06 20:18:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
- As for why "Liang" is a "lady".... Have you seeeeen what an Achura male looks like?! ShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked

-Liang



alas... Crying or Very sad

Julie Thorne
14th Legion
Posted - 2009.10.06 20:20:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Julie Thorne on 06/10/2009 20:21:51
Originally by: GGjita
Edited by: GGjita on 13/09/2009 10:51:17
To answer the question about bounties per 20 minute period I can give a pretty decent answer to this for the CNR, Golem, and Vargar on the mission Blockade (angel). This is the only one i can give because myself and a corp mate of mine compete with each other on this mission for biggest bounty. The avg. listed are for the first bounty recieved in the mission. We did not include the second if there was one because it was normally only a few ships. All these are with most skills at L5, and the few others at L4.

CNR: (4 CN BCU's, 3 rigors, TP, CN launchers T1 ammo)

14.8 mil avg. over the course of 16 blockades


Golem: (4 CN BCU's, 2 PWNAGE, T2 range rigs, T2 launchers w/ Faction/javs)

17.7 mil avg. over the course of 23 blockades (5 of these finished the mission in less that 20 mins)


Vargur: (4 RF gyros, 2 GN tracking comps, 2 T2 extension rigs, T2 800's w/ barrage)

16.4 mil avg. over the course of 14 blockades


Do your friend use an AB? Cause I think that's more important than a 2nd TC. And IMO barrage is a bit overrated, it's main advantage over RF Fusion is its price, not the range modifier. I never use it.

Btw I got the Blockade twice with my Golem and finished it just under 20 min both times.

Edit: my apologies for the large amount of posts and the long break.

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.06 20:42:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: VanNostrum
Originally by: Liang Nuren
- As for why "Liang" is a "lady".... Have you seeeeen what an Achura male looks like?! ShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked

-Liang



alas... Crying or Very sad


I loled. No offense, it kinda looks like your head was cut off and put on a pedestal...

FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
Posted - 2009.10.06 20:48:00 - [67]
 

Yes, as long as you plan to loot and salvage as you go. It is the best Minmatar PvE ship.

Hiroshima Jita
Posted - 2009.10.06 21:08:00 - [68]
 

There is some ambiguity in the question. I think the answer looks like this-

If you have crosstrained multiple races, or if you haven't commited to minmatar yet, then no. The raven line is better for completion times. Very few ships beat them. The nightmare maybe. The Vargur does not.

If you're a minmatar specced pure mission runner then yes. Minmatar isnt sitting on anything really better to offer. And why not dump that money you have sitting around into something pimp.

If you do other things than just mission running but are purely minmatar specced you have entered the gray area. If youre trying to pay for pvp you would have to milk that vargur a whole lot before you outdid a maelstrom enough to justify the cost. To pay for itself the vargur would have to mission for 25 to 100 hours depending on exactly how much isk/hour you manage to pull in with the thing.

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2009.10.06 21:20:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: CAREBEARSTAR3
How is the vargur "blowful"? It can do 800 dps (without drones) at 65km with tracking near medium turrets.


righ, can i have some of the stuff you have been smoking?

Miranele
Posted - 2009.10.07 07:27:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Miranele on 07/10/2009 07:28:43
[Vargur, New Setup 1]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Capacitor Flux Coil II

Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Cap Recharger II
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field

Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
[empty high slot] -
[empty high slot] Salvagers , tracs, what ever
[empty high slot] -

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

This setup ROCKS. Its a perma running 1000 dps tanking monster.
And with crystals, yeah do the math..

With Barrage it hits @ 45km and deals 752 DPS With BARRAGE WIthout drones !!
Swap to Hail and deal 950 dps without drones.

Tracking speed of the " Smaller turrets " are 0.08
a Hurricane with 425mm AC II's using Barrage has a tracking of 0.079
So the Vargurs tracking is better then a Medium gun!

Not a shabby ship at all, It take one anyday if i were speced in shield / Minmatar :P
So no. The Vargur dont suck, You just need to fit it good!

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.10.07 08:27:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Miranele
So no. The Vargur dont suck, You just need to fit it good!



Not like that, then?

Muad' Dib
Gallente
PWNED FACTOR HOLDINGS
Posted - 2009.10.07 08:44:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Miranele
Edited by: Miranele on 07/10/2009 07:28:43
[Vargur, New Setup 1]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Capacitor Flux Coil II

Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Cap Recharger II
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field

Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
[empty high slot] -
[empty high slot] Salvagers , tracs, what ever
[empty high slot] -

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

This setup ROCKS. Its a perma running 1000 dps tanking monster.
And with crystals, yeah do the math..

With Barrage it hits @ 45km and deals 752 DPS With BARRAGE WIthout drones !!
Swap to Hail and deal 950 dps without drones.

Tracking speed of the " Smaller turrets " are 0.08
a Hurricane with 425mm AC II's using Barrage has a tracking of 0.079
So the Vargurs tracking is better then a Medium gun!

Not a shabby ship at all, It take one anyday if i were speced in shield / Minmatar :P
So no. The Vargur dont suck, You just need to fit it good!



So, to get it to work you need a 2-3b isk setup, no propulsion, no point, and to absolutely not meet ECM in pvp or guristas in missions ... good thing it ain't asking for much. o.0

Miranele
Posted - 2009.10.07 08:49:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Muad' Dib


So, to get it to work you need a 2-3b isk setup, no propulsion, no point, and to absolutely not meet ECM in pvp or guristas in missions ... good thing it ain't asking for much. o.0


If your gonna fly a ship like that, you should pimp it. Atleast thats my opinion.
And tbh, Why do you need propultion?, I enter a room, aggro everything and move to the gate. And you reach the gate long time before you killed everything.. So an AB is a waste in 95% of the missions.
ECM ? Sure, i dont run missions agianst Guristas, so i dont have that issue.

;)

Spaztick
Terminal Impact
Kairakau
Posted - 2009.10.07 08:50:00 - [74]
 

[Vargur, PvE]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

Gistum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Gallente Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II

Large Projectile Ambit Extension II
Large Projectile Ambit Extension II


Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5

You can't loot crystals from a ganked wreck, so you get an 800 dps tank, more than enough for any level 4. Slap in appropriate hardwirings, get some (optional) synth sooth sayer and enjoy 70km falloff (more with the TE changes coming). If you really want an AB drop an amp for one. You can change up the shield booster for a large or XL, this is just for cap stability.

Muad' Dib
Gallente
PWNED FACTOR HOLDINGS
Posted - 2009.10.07 09:17:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 07/10/2009 09:21:00
Originally by: Miranele
Originally by: Muad' Dib


So, to get it to work you need a 2-3b isk setup, no propulsion, no point, and to absolutely not meet ECM in pvp or guristas in missions ... good thing it ain't asking for much. o.0


If your gonna fly a ship like that, you should pimp it. Atleast thats my opinion.
And tbh, Why do you need propultion?, I enter a room, aggro everything and move to the gate. And you reach the gate long time before you killed everything.. So an AB is a waste in 95% of the missions.
ECM ? Sure, i dont run missions agianst Guristas, so i dont have that issue.

;)


It's not a waste, what is a waste is a TP bonus for a gun based mission running ship who can't use it properly because it might help when you fit arties, except that arties don't really fit, do they ?

I might not want to admit this, but i've actually tested all of the Marauders in PVE, and the only ones that are 'practical' and efficient in their bonuses are the Kronos/Golem. I'd include the Paladin there too, but heavy em damage is good only against a few rats, and not what i was looking for, however the bonuses it has do favour the ship.

Either PVE or PVP, the Vargur needs a to be rebalanced, from removing that useless TP bonus to adding another med, and rebalancing large projectiles - no ... a damage buff to ammo won't 'fix' it.

Talio ZomB
Posted - 2009.10.07 09:21:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Spaztick
[Vargur, PvE]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

Gistum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Gallente Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II

Large Projectile Ambit Extension II
Large Projectile Ambit Extension II


Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5

You can't loot crystals from a ganked wreck, so you get an 800 dps tank, more than enough for any level 4. Slap in appropriate hardwirings, get some (optional) synth sooth sayer and enjoy 70km falloff (more with the TE changes coming). If you really want an AB drop an amp for one. You can change up the shield booster for a large or XL, this is just for cap stability.



what he said, this is an ideal setup
personally I would opt for pith A type large and gist A type 100mn

but the dps is just marginally under 1000 fo this fit with 5% implants
range is marginally under 40km on rep fleet emp

usging barrage range is I forget, better than my jav torps

I personally fly a pimped golem but I know the vargur doesnt suck, ppl suck, down with all the haters!!!

Miriiah
Posted - 2009.10.07 09:31:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Miranele
Edited by: Miranele on 07/10/2009 07:28:43
[Vargur, New Setup 1]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Capacitor Flux Coil II

Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Cap Recharger II
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field

Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
[empty high slot] -
[empty high slot] Salvagers , tracs, what ever
[empty high slot] -

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

This setup ROCKS. Its a perma running 1000 dps tanking monster.
And with crystals, yeah do the math..

With Barrage it hits @ 45km and deals 752 DPS With BARRAGE WIthout drones !!
Swap to Hail and deal 950 dps without drones.

Tracking speed of the " Smaller turrets " are 0.08
a Hurricane with 425mm AC II's using Barrage has a tracking of 0.079
So the Vargurs tracking is better then a Medium gun!

Not a shabby ship at all, It take one anyday if i were speced in shield / Minmatar :P
So no. The Vargur dont suck, You just need to fit it good!



This setup sucks ugh no Ambits on Vargur = instant failureCrying or Very sad

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.10.07 09:32:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Miranele
[Vargur, New Setup 1]

With Barrage it hits @ 45km and deals 752 DPS With BARRAGE WIthout drones !!
Swap to Hail and deal 950 dps without drones.
Yeah… "hit" is nice and all, but at that range, you're looking at a DPS of ~325 against a stationary target — never mind what happens if it starts moving. On the upside, the target is so far into falloff that at this range, that size doesn't make much of a difference any more, and you'll only lose about 10 DPS if you shoot at cruiser-sized rats. With Hail, you're looking at 490 DPS @ 15km (stationary target — which mission rats never are); move within optimal and the standard mission battleship will still only receive 590 DPS (and cruisers evade the guns completely)…

The numbers look good on paper — falloff and tracking screw you over big time in real virtual life. Neutral
Quote:
Tracking speed of the " Smaller turrets " are 0.08
a Hurricane with 425mm AC II's using Barrage has a tracking of 0.079
So the Vargurs tracking is better then a Medium gun!
No, because those medium guns have a sig resolution of 125m, whereas your large cannons have a sig res of 400, making the comparative tracking of the 425:s 0.253 (or, conversely, the comparative tracking of the 650:s is 0.025…

Muad' Dib
Gallente
PWNED FACTOR HOLDINGS
Posted - 2009.10.07 09:34:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 07/10/2009 09:38:50
Originally by: Talio ZomB
Originally by: Spaztick
[Vargur, PvE]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

Gistum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Gallente Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II

Large Projectile Ambit Extension II
Large Projectile Ambit Extension II


Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5

You can't loot crystals from a ganked wreck, so you get an 800 dps tank, more than enough for any level 4. Slap in appropriate hardwirings, get some (optional) synth sooth sayer and enjoy 70km falloff (more with the TE changes coming). If you really want an AB drop an amp for one. You can change up the shield booster for a large or XL, this is just for cap stability.



what he said, this is an ideal setup
personally I would opt for pith A type large and gist A type 100mn

but the dps is just marginally under 1000 fo this fit with 5% implants
range is marginally under 40km on rep fleet emp

usging barrage range is I forget, better than my jav torps

I personally fly a pimped golem but I know the vargur doesnt suck, ppl suck, down with all the haters!!!



Long time no see man, i see you still haven't abandoned Caldari. :)

And yes, the Vargur blows ... if TC/TE's would boost falloff as well it might help it, not to mention the fact that it needs a web bonus.

The thing that really hurts it is the inability of fitting 1400's without compromising lows. Even with RF guns you need at least 2 TS PDS's or 1 TS RCU, lows which you sacrifice.
CCP could give it a bit more PG, but then they would make it way too good for pvp ... ac + neut boat with insane active tank.
Large projectiles need a PG rebalancing, and that involves looking at the PG of Tempest/Typhoon - Maelstrom has no use for more PG since it has way too standardized fits.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.10.07 09:38:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Muad' Dib
And yes, the Vargur blows ... if TC/TE's would boost falloff as well it might help it, not to mention the fact that it needs a web bonus.
I seem to recall from the fanfest discussions that we're getting that… if not in Dominion, then Soon™.

Muad' Dib
Gallente
PWNED FACTOR HOLDINGS
Posted - 2009.10.07 09:44:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Muad' Dib
And yes, the Vargur blows ... if TC/TE's would boost falloff as well it might help it, not to mention the fact that it needs a web bonus.
I seem to recall from the fanfest discussions that we're getting that… if not in Dominion, then Soon™.


I'll keep whining 'till i get it.
Personally i don't put much stock into CCP's way of doing things, ever since the Zealot buff.

I would like to use an arty-Vargur in lvl 5's, i would like to use an ac-Vargur in PVP - i have a crystal clone lying somewhere, but when it performs so lousy compared to other shield tanked ships ... why bother ?

Miriiah
Posted - 2009.10.07 10:05:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Talio ZomB
Originally by: Spaztick
[Vargur, PvE]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

Gistum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Gallente Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II

Large Projectile Ambit Extension II
Large Projectile Ambit Extension II


Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5

You can't loot crystals from a ganked wreck, so you get an 800 dps tank, more than enough for any level 4. Slap in appropriate hardwirings, get some (optional) synth sooth sayer and enjoy 70km falloff (more with the TE changes coming). If you really want an AB drop an amp for one. You can change up the shield booster for a large or XL, this is just for cap stability.



what he said, this is an ideal setup
personally I would opt for pith A type large and gist A type 100mn

but the dps is just marginally under 1000 fo this fit with 5% implants
range is marginally under 40km on rep fleet emp

usging barrage range is I forget, better than my jav torps

I personally fly a pimped golem but I know the vargur doesnt suck, ppl suck, down with all the haters!!!

Why bother with a Pith A-type Large? I've tanked every mission with a dual Pithi b-type small booster and normal t2 hardners/shield boost amp, medium booster will permarun aswell, and the A-type medium is amazing and uses alot less cap per SP it restores

People using deadspace large/xlarge shield boosters on Vargur/Golem just fails

And for the setup above, get a 4th Gyro over a TE

comrade captain
Posted - 2009.10.07 11:05:00 - [83]
 

well said, 2 te and 1 tracking comp is overkill you can track anything with just 1 tracking comp and 1 te, so swap for a 4th gyro

Spaztick
Terminal Impact
Kairakau
Posted - 2009.10.07 13:09:00 - [84]
 

4th gyro will give you less dps return than a 2nd TE. You're looking at best a few DPS gain in deep falloff, as opposed to a longer range and better tracking that will boost your overall dps more (gaining a few more KM on optimal and soon to be falloff will be better than the extra damage).

Lrrp
Minmatar
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.10.07 13:32:00 - [85]
 

So the big question now, is how the Vargur will perform with the upcoming projectile buff. Is it testable on sisi yet?


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