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Aluin Chaput
Caldari
Sacred Templars
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.02 02:17:00 - [1]
 

Right now I am trying to decided which is better. I like both styles, but don't have the PVP experience to know strong points and weaknesses.

So what are the Pro's and Con's of both, which one do you generally think is better?

Darthewok
Perkone
Posted - 2009.09.02 02:34:00 - [2]
 

mebbe specify whether you are using it:
1)solo/in fleet
2)in FW, low-sec or 0.0

and you may get more and more relevant advice.
because "PVP" comes in many types, and different ships and fits suit the different types.
cheers.

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2009.09.02 02:36:00 - [3]
 

Both of them are typically overtanked, however the drake is usually more tanked..

The myrm is almost guarenteed 200 dps from hammer IIs (more with perfect skills), plus whatever guns you jam in the highslots. Also, it can do e-war a lot easier than your average brick-esque drake.. mwd/web/point/scram, or less, and still a slot left over. drake really cuts into its tank by doing that..

I personally would choose a myrm over a drake (even if i had skills for a drake) any day.

comparing random setups I just made up on the spot, it looks like a buffer drake isnt totally horrible - 65k ehp or so, and still puts out good dps >.>
myrm could do more, but only with a dual 1600mm setup.. gogo gadget slowboat.

anyway
both are good, just dont go around putting heavy missiles on a drake, use hams..

NoNah
Posted - 2009.09.02 02:42:00 - [4]
 

I'd say Drake hands down. The myrm can hold it's ground if you want extreme gank(IE blasters and drone mix witha shield buffer) or as an active tanker soloboat(dual reps, full tackle).

As far as EHP with decent dps and ample tackle, drake takes it all the way.

Aluin Chaput
Caldari
Sacred Templars
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.02 02:46:00 - [5]
 

Thing is I will be training for a Chimera after it, so a Myrm might make more sense. for lowsec none piwate and eventual 0.0, which makes more sense?

(Also have a Rokh for my sniping/BS fleet needs)

Renarla
Posted - 2009.09.02 02:47:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Renarla on 02/09/2009 02:47:48
Originally by: Lance Fighter

myrm could do more, but only with a dual 1600mm setup.. gogo gadget slowboat.



My shield tanked Myrmidon says hai. 63k EHP

Quote:

[Myrmidon, Shieldidon]
D[Myrmidon, Shieldidon]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Co-Processor II
Mark I Generator Refitting: Diagnostic System

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I


Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1
Hobgoblin II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5



Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2009.09.02 03:10:00 - [7]
 

Drake is pretty much the best mix of firepower, buffer and speed/agility of all the BCs, but as said before, the Myrm could outgank it w/ Neutrons + drones or out tank it with a full tank setup. Just depends on what you hope to achieve.

If there may be sentry guns where you plan on fighting, then its Drake hands down.

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2009.09.02 03:11:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Renarla
Edited by: Renarla on 02/09/2009 02:47:48
Originally by: Lance Fighter

myrm could do more, but only with a dual 1600mm setup.. gogo gadget slowboat.



My shield tanked Myrmidon says hai. 63k EHP

Quote:

[Myrmidon, Shieldidon]
D[Myrmidon, Shieldidon]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Co-Processor II
Mark I Generator Refitting: Diagnostic System

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I


Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1
Hobgoblin II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5




congrats. Your over 65k ehp.

Lars Lodar
The Python Cartel.
The Jerk Cartel
Posted - 2009.09.02 03:59:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Artemis Rose
Drake is pretty much the best mix of firepower, buffer and speed/agility of all the BCs, but as said before, the Myrm could outgank it w/ Neutrons + drones or out tank it with a full tank setup. Just depends on what you hope to achieve.

If there may be sentry guns where you plan on fighting, then its Drake hands down.


This pretty much. Don't forget the range on the Drake too. Go HAM drake or go home.

Folko D'emon
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
Posted - 2009.09.02 04:12:00 - [10]
 

I can fly full t2 fitted HAM drake and a full t2 myrm as well.

Most situations you will want the myrm for tackle. Very rare that a drake does anything better. Myrmidon FTW

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2009.09.02 04:27:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Folko D'emon
Very rare that a drake does anything better. Myrmidon FTW


Other than having

1. A better buffer

2. More speed

3. Usable under sentries.

Darksniperr
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.09.02 06:02:00 - [12]
 

[Drake, Drake PvP]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Warp Disruptor II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Large Shield Extender II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5

Fit I plan on using for PvP soon.
Only 54k ehp but it puts out 509dps with my skills. Will mainly be for solo but hoping to get corp buddy to get into one to Cool

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.09.02 08:21:00 - [13]
 

Cut out this "HAM Drake or go home" crap. It's not 2008 any more, since the QR missile boost, HMs are a really good PVP weapon.

HAMs are great for solo work and quick ganks of tackled targets. But when the enemy has shpis spread out across the field, especially recons, then the ability of HM Drake to apply DPS to anything within ~80 km is very powerful.

Shield gank Myrm has great EFT DPS... emphasis on EFT. Its ability to project DPS across the field is poor, thanks to crappy blaster range. Armour-tanked Myrm is alright solo, although it's not fully compatible with the "get in, gank, get out" principle, and poor in gang, thanks to lower DPS, range and mobility.

Phantom Assault
Posted - 2009.09.02 08:27:00 - [14]
 

I don't fly Gallente, but I do fly Drakes. You will not be dissapointed if you train up the Drake. I can fly both HAM and HM Drake. I prefer the HM variant for overall flexibility. You can hit targets ~72 or so in all directions, with a great buffer. This is handy for dispatching enemy EWAR that are set up at range. And while you do get better DPS out of the HAM Drakes, the Heavies are an overall better fit for most situations. If you are solo, go with the HAM fit, but for anything else, I'd grab the HM Drake.

Denuo Secus
Posted - 2009.09.02 09:28:00 - [15]
 

Same here. HM Drake 4tw. Solo fights are way to rare to abandon HMs great flexibility. They also hit smaller ships better - which is more important after the last patch.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2009.09.02 09:29:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Cut out this "HAM Drake or go home" crap. It's not 2008 any more, since the QR missile boost, HMs are a really good PVP weapon.

HAMs are great for solo work and quick ganks of tackled targets. But when the enemy has shpis spread out across the field, especially recons, then the ability of HM Drake to apply DPS to anything within ~80 km is very powerful.

Shield gank Myrm has great EFT DPS... emphasis on EFT. Its ability to project DPS across the field is poor, thanks to crappy blaster range. Armour-tanked Myrm is alright solo, although it's not fully compatible with the "get in, gank, get out" principle, and poor in gang, thanks to lower DPS, range and mobility.


The Myrmidon can also use various other guns ;) It's a good ship overall.

I'd say the Drake is better for many purposes though, particularly in gangs.


Shade Millith
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.09.02 11:21:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Cut out this "HAM Drake or go home" crap. It's not 2008 any more, since the QR missile boost, HMs are a really good PVP weapon.

HAMs are great for solo work and quick ganks of tackled targets. But when the enemy has shpis spread out across the field, especially recons, then the ability of HM Drake to apply DPS to anything within ~80 km is very powerful.


This. Used to use HAM's for everything, but with the constant MWDing around without a capbooster ended up leaving me dead in the water half the time. HML's are good for group work and area's if you expect to get kited. HAM's if you're solo and can't be kited (ie, sticking to the gates)

Both very effective.

darth archious1
Posted - 2009.09.02 11:33:00 - [18]
 

both are good ships but if i was flying in a fleet and it depends how good yor drone skills are both have good tanks so you shouldnt get primary so go with which one your more comfortable of flying.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.02 12:24:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 02/09/2009 12:24:56
I had a really though fight wiht a laser myrm in my HAM Drake the other day. I eventualyl got him tho, but I was deep in structure when he popped :).

Overall I perfer Drake, simple, yet very effective.

Spectre3353
Gallente
Heavy Risk...
Posted - 2009.09.02 14:20:00 - [20]
 

I very much enjoy flying the active armor tanked variant of the Myrmidon. That being said, I would be receptive to the argument that the Drake is the best Tier 2 BC.

Myrm: Very flexible thanks to the slot layout, variety of ways you can tank it, variety of different guns you fit (due to no weapon bonuses) and the fact that you get a decent sized drone bay. Also, it is a cool looking vertical ship.

Drake: Good engagement range, good tank, can choose damage type. Very stupid looking.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2009.09.02 14:26:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Spectre3353
Also, it is a cool looking vertical ship.



I know it's not a concern for many players, but this is why I'd always grab the Myrmidon instead ;)


Aluin Chaput
Caldari
Sacred Templars
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.02 14:36:00 - [22]
 

Either way I am getting drone skills for my Chimera, so that might narrow it down.

4THELULZ
Posted - 2009.09.02 14:39:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Cut out this "HAM Drake or go home" crap. It's not 2008 any more, since the QR missile boost, HMs are a really good PVP weapon.

HAMs are great for solo work and quick ganks of tackled targets. But when the enemy has shpis spread out across the field, especially recons, then the ability of HM Drake to apply DPS to anything within ~80 km is very powerful.



Finally someone who realises this.
HMLs are indeed awesome, I fly a HML cerb and to a lesser extent a HML Drake and both are superb. It's also worth mentioning that while the on paper dps of HAMS is higher, HMLs have a far easier time hitting small targets.

ISK Launderer
Posted - 2009.09.02 15:32:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Aluin Chaput
Right now I am trying to decided which is better. I like both styles, but don't have the PVP experience to know strong points and weaknesses.

So what are the Pro's and Con's of both, which one do you generally think is better?


HELLO! CALDARI IS FAIL FOR PVP SO DRAKE IS UNUSEABLE. USE MYRM OR TRAIN AMARR.

Red zeon
Caldari
Sacred Templars
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2009.09.02 15:59:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: ISK Launderer
Originally by: Aluin Chaput
Right now I am trying to decided which is better. I like both styles, but don't have the PVP experience to know strong points and weaknesses.

So what are the Pro's and Con's of both, which one do you generally think is better?


HELLO! CALDARI IS FAIL FOR PVP SO DRAKE IS UNUSEABLE. USE MYRM OR TRAIN AMARR.


id show you what "fail" mens if youd go upp in a 1v1 :P
prolly trolling there tho?

Sonderkommando
Posted - 2009.09.02 16:33:00 - [26]
 

As far as HAM and HM Drakes go, think of it like this. A HAM Drake is a vicious dog that is in the back yard. If for whatever reason you end up in the back yard, well good luck. A HM drake is only slightly less vicious dog, but a dog that is roaming the block. It is harder to taunt the HM Drake / Dog, if you are on the same block.

The Myrmidon is a good boat too, just not for me.

Spectre3353
Gallente
Heavy Risk...
Posted - 2009.09.02 16:45:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Sonderkommando
As far as HAM and HM Drakes go, think of it like this. A HAM Drake is a vicious dog that is in the back yard. If for whatever reason you end up in the back yard, well good luck. A HM drake is only slightly less vicious dog, but a dog that is roaming the block. It is harder to taunt the HM Drake / Dog, if you are on the same block.

The Myrmidon is a good boat too, just not for me.


Does that mean that the Myrm is a really fat and slow dog that is tied to a doghouse and dragging it behind him? And that the Myrmidon dog has really big fleas that will fly off of him and attack you as well, biting you really bad and making you itchy? Also, is the Myrm dog really just misunderstood and wants to be loved and to do exploration sites with a Drake dog that shares his interests and goals in life?

Aluin Chaput
Caldari
Sacred Templars
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2009.09.02 17:46:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Aluin Chaput on 02/09/2009 17:48:49
I am fairly close to both and have to train Drones anyway The drake shield skills would help me with my Carrier.... Arg, which to chose! Laughing


Which one can solo and gang/fleet pvp well?

Spectre3353
Gallente
Heavy Risk...
Posted - 2009.09.02 17:53:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Aluin Chaput
Edited by: Aluin Chaput on 02/09/2009 17:48:49
I am fairly close to both and have to train Drones anyway The drake shield skills would help me with my Carrier.... Arg, which to chose! Laughing


Which one can solo and gang/fleet pvp well?


Did you ignore everything everyone just said? They both can. Just choose which one you like better.

Darksniperr
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.09.02 18:31:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Darksniperr on 02/09/2009 18:31:48
Originally by: Spectre3353
Originally by: Sonderkommando
As far as HAM and HM Drakes go, think of it like this. A HAM Drake is a vicious dog that is in the back yard. If for whatever reason you end up in the back yard, well good luck. A HM drake is only slightly less vicious dog, but a dog that is roaming the block. It is harder to taunt the HM Drake / Dog, if you are on the same block.

The Myrmidon is a good boat too, just not for me.


Does that mean that the Myrm is a really fat and slow dog that is tied to a doghouse and dragging it behind him? And that the Myrmidon dog has really big fleas that will fly off of him and attack you as well, biting you really bad and making you itchy? Also, is the Myrm dog really just misunderstood and wants to be loved and to do exploration sites with a Drake dog that shares his interests and goals in life?


That was genius. Very Happy


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