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blankseplocked [Proposal] - Minmatar Large Projectile/Ship Fix - Astrophobic's
 
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Xzanos
Sniper Fleet Death Squad
Posted - 2009.09.06 02:26:00 - [91]
 

all in all this seems like good stuff. there might be some stacking bonuses between bosting tempest and ac/artys that could make it a bit overpowered but that could all be looked into and balanced out. i give it thumbs up all in all

Allen Ramses
Caldari
Zombicidal Mania
Posted - 2009.09.06 03:18:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Orakkus
All autocannons: +35% falloff.
No. AC falloff is already twice as much as blasters and pulses. A 20% increase to DPS is probably needed, though.

Quote:
Tiered falloff: Keep the falloff the same for the middle tiered autocannons. Reduce the falloff of the lower tier by 10%, increase the falloff of the upper tier by 12.5%.
Fixed. And YES!!

Quote:
Ammo:
No. CCP must have been on drugs when they created the ammo for minmatar ammo. Mixing it with this will only make it worse.

Instead, CCP need to re-create Minmatar ammo from scratch.

Quote:
Artillery: Increase the base damage modifier by 50%. Compensate by decreasing the rate of fire by 33% as well.
Fixed, and yes. As for the rest, I disagree.

Quote:
The Tempest:
Are you high? I don't even know where to begin with this one. The 66% DPS bonus already makes this ship a beast. And you want to make it better than a tier 3 battleship??

Quote:
The Muninn:
I don't know enough about the muninn to say.

Quote:
The Typhoon:
The phoon is arguably the best tier 1 vessel in the game for the sake of versatility. It doesn't need any changes IMO.

Orakkus
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Posted - 2009.09.06 06:07:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: Orakkus on 06/09/2009 06:06:53
Originally by: Allen Ramses
Stuff


Please limit discussion on this issue to the ships and modules thread that is currently running at 32 pages now.

In addition, here are some following points:

Tempest: Even CCP has acknowledged that the ship is no longer viable. If you can't see that yourself, you have no business making any posts about solutions to any Minmatar issue. The Ships and Modules thread goes into great detail why the Tempest does not measure up to even Tier 2 damage dealing ships. Please read it.

Muninn: See suggestion above or make a new thread.

Typhoon: There is another thread on Ships and Modules on this very subject. Again please read it, and make your points there.

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2009.09.06 12:36:00 - [94]
 

Supported.

I didnīt sent in my own sugestions since I was afraid of a long Eft\numbers war.

Good job Orakkus, keeping the thread clean.

AKs:
Agreed.

Tiered Falloff:
Argreed, with the extra base falloff for AKs it is actualy preaty nice. I had a more linear progression(0->10%->20%) in mind but then again with the extra base falloff a very good idea to.

Amno:
Make it so! The damage lose is only on Nuklear and Carbonized Lead and it is not a very big one(9% weaker). Even in PVE where Nuklear has a use for artillery the new Fusion is a very good tradeoff for it.

Artillery:
Would work, even if I would prefere a bit more DPS+tracking over a bit more range. 40% more Damage and -25% rof would keep the DPS on the Pest nearly the same(a little higher actualy) while still having a Alpha close to 5.7k.

Tempest:
With the increased AK falloff yes. 5% falloff per level are good(7.5% would still be awsome). Since you can deal more damage with the changed faction Amno the DPS lose is not this big in the end, and barrage gets a lot more falloff to help it.
Only drawback I see that you will end up with with a to low DPS number in general fleet fights(on top to the range issues, shooting in falloff, low base DPS, low tracking), but this is more related to the artillery change than the tempest.

Munin:
Agreed.


AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.09.06 16:21:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: AstroPhobic on 06/09/2009 16:27:15
I'd like to point Allen to the discussion thread currently held in ships and modules. Please if you're going to discuss, do it there.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1130224&page=32#949

Xzanos
Sniper Fleet Death Squad
Posted - 2009.09.06 21:51:00 - [96]
 

This thread must stay on the front page imo its not just the tempest that needs help all the minmatar battleships do. as well as guns

Wollari
Phoenix Industries
Wicked Nation
Posted - 2009.09.07 10:40:00 - [97]
 

sounds good!

Rayokashi
Posted - 2009.09.08 06:57:00 - [98]
 

Tempest needs fix. Projectiles need fix. Arguments have been made by others and there is active thread going on where need for fixes is made clear.

Xzanos
Sniper Fleet Death Squad
Posted - 2009.09.08 08:20:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Xzanos on 08/09/2009 08:21:52
Originally by: Rayokashi
Tempest needs fix. Projectiles need fix. Arguments have been made by others and there is active thread going on where need for fixes is made clear.


usually when people refer to another thread they post a link to it. care to indulge us?

Javelin6
Dirt Nap Squad
Posted - 2009.09.08 09:08:00 - [100]
 

Supported

Hun Jakuza
We Are So Troubled Everyone Runs Screaming
Posted - 2009.09.08 10:18:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 08/09/2009 10:43:22
Originally by: Rayokashi
Tempest needs fix. Projectiles need fix. Arguments have been made by others and there is active thread going on where need for fixes is made clear.


Agreed.
Just look at this. Tempest no firepower and no tank.
6 mid slot for shield? Sux. No mwd/no web/no scram/no cap booster/no sensor booster/no ECCM and resist same time. (No shield bonus like the other shield tanked ships and shorter med slot withdrawn Raven)
Dominion patch slap more the matar pilots in face -1 mid slot to the fleet pest.

Ok try with armor. 6 slot too but, all armor user ship have minimum 7 low slot, like dominix,armageddon,megathron,phoon,hyperion,apoc, abaddon.
So.. maybe you will shorter with 1600 plate, or damage mod or anm than enemy. Mid slot cant help you, because a sensor booster or other modules cant give to you plus damage or plus defense and the enemy pilots will using (mid slots) same modules cap booster,mwd,web there.

Firepower ? Tempest damage in short range is very bad , the other armored BSs make it better than.
So... you have a worst tank and worst firepower tempest against better ships.
Just see the killboards and market. Just few pilots want to fly with tempest, because he has bad tank and bad firepower and always he is the primary (because bad tank). Fleet battle ? Small amount of tempest, maybe few snipership in 0.0 but most pilot using rather apoc, mega there.

Why primary always the tempest ? Good FC always know, because you could be kill them faster than other ships.
And never top DD when fleet have amarr,gallente ships and starting shot same target in same time.

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.09.08 14:37:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Xzanos
Edited by: Xzanos on 08/09/2009 08:21:52
Originally by: Rayokashi
Tempest needs fix. Projectiles need fix. Arguments have been made by others and there is active thread going on where need for fixes is made clear.


usually when people refer to another thread they post a link to it. care to indulge us?


3 replies above yours.


http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1130224

Chestrano
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.09 21:44:00 - [103]
 

bump

Kani Sectas
Posted - 2009.09.10 07:50:00 - [104]
 

Doesn't go far enough! Double all of the things you're suggesting. And add an extra 4 high slots, just in case.

Come on CCP, you know game balance is all about eradicating any possible disadvantage to each ship! This is a game, we don't want to think or make tradeoffs or any of that nonsense.

Badger Beard
Posted - 2009.09.10 10:32:00 - [105]
 

Sounds good

Garr Anders
Minmatar
The Red Circle Inc.

Posted - 2009.09.10 10:41:00 - [106]
 

Supporting this, though all minni boats and all projectile need some serious overhaul.

Khadrea Shakor
Minmatar
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
Posted - 2009.09.10 12:31:00 - [107]
 


eliminator2
Gallente
Vindicated Blast.

Posted - 2009.09.10 14:11:00 - [108]
 

i fly all 4 races p good but i luv flying min the only draw back is the auto's and split weapons this sounds good :)

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.09.10 14:48:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Garr Anders
Supporting this, though all minni boats and all projectile need some serious overhaul.


I noted in the OP that it applies across the board to small, medium, and large projectiles. Not sure how many people noticed, though.

Stratigic
Initium Malum

Posted - 2009.09.10 20:14:00 - [110]
 

Edited by: Stratigic on 10/09/2009 20:14:35
Agreed, but this might make minmitar the new fotm, can you live with that?

Equilian
Minmatar
Dissonance Corp
Posted - 2009.09.10 20:17:00 - [111]
 

/signed

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.09.10 20:40:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Stratigic
Edited by: Stratigic on 10/09/2009 20:14:35
Agreed, but this might make minmitar the new fotm, can you live with that?


I doubt it. The boost is moderate at most. Even with a 100% falloff increase, you'll still be doing more damage with more EHP as amarr. Minmatar still has fundemental issues such as EHP and sensor strength and lock range that come into play even more in today's pvp environment.

It makes minnie BS usable, not overpowered.

Chestrano
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.10 21:04:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: AstroPhobic

It makes minnie BS usable, not overpowered.


Agreed, i hope CCP will test it on the testserver. I doupt your suggestion would be enough but tbh its far better then nothing.

Anticoriolis
Posted - 2009.09.10 23:26:00 - [114]
 


Axearm Thunk'um
Posted - 2009.09.11 00:20:00 - [115]
 


Rayokashi
Posted - 2009.09.11 07:48:00 - [116]
 

Support is welcome!

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2009.09.11 12:07:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Ecky X
Edited by: Ecky X on 04/09/2009 00:43:56
Originally by: Bomberlocks


Some caveats though: I don't see the need to reduce the Minnie long range ammos damage (Carbonised Lead, Titanium Sabot, Proton etc), since they are about the only counter that Minnies have in long range engagements with Caldari, for instance (unless you want to really use tremor, which wasn't even mentioned here, because just about no one uses it because its dps is so anemic).



Erm, you do realize that Tremor does more damage than Proton, Nuclear, and Carbonized lead, right?

Ammos other than phased plasma, EMP, and fusion, + T2 long range are rarely used, for good reason. Minmatar long range ammos do more damage than other races, but Astro is suggesting that all minmatar ammos are moved 1 "damage level" toward close-range, since nobody uses long range ammos.
You're right, and I mistakenly got Titanium Sabot in there as well. Shows how often I use Tremor, because I seemed to have Tremor in memory as being weaker than nuclear and proton, I don't know why.

Rab See
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.09.11 12:58:00 - [118]
 

Yes

Orakkus
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Posted - 2009.09.11 14:45:00 - [119]
 

I recieved a reply from one of the CSMs, Omber Zombie. He stated that CCP was in fact looking at projectiles and Minmatar ships.. He felt that he thus didn't need to bring it up as an issue at the CSM meeting.

I replied essentially that I certainly hope so.. however, if they do to the Minmatar what they did to Fleet Issue Tempest..

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2009.09.11 18:07:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Orakkus
I recieved a reply from one of the CSMs, Omber Zombie. He stated that CCP was in fact looking at projectiles and Minmatar ships.. He felt that he thus didn't need to bring it up as an issue at the CSM meeting.

I replied essentially that I certainly hope so.. however, if they do to the Minmatar what they did to Fleet Issue Tempest..



I think it should be brought up regardless, otherwise we're going to see a "+50% clip size for artillery" - all done! I seriously doubt ccp recognizes the severity and depth of issues that projectiles have - some of their posts re tempest and vagabond really makes me scratch my head.


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