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Galal Dax
Omber Company
Knights of the Rising Phoenix
Posted - 2009.08.26 01:36:00 - [151]
 

EBank is insolvent.

If it were a US Bank, the FDIC would seal the door, close it down, and sell it's assets to a larger bank, that was solvent.

Deposits would be safe (FDIC Insured), and would be available for withdrawal at the new bank that has taken the old one over.

There is no banking entity here larger than EBank, and the losses cannot be assumed by an FDIC (CCP).

As others have said, these actions and the previous scandal have permanently damaged EBank's reputation IMHO, as a very low risk place to park ISK.

To me, this should be treated the same way as the much smaller Z'Xera scam IPO:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1119903&page=4

All assets should be liquidated, including all shares, and BPOs, and any other assets.

These should then be allocated to current depositors, whether at 40, 50, or 60% on the ISK - whatever it comes out to.

Then, the individuals would be able to deploy what ISK that they own as they see fit.

There has already been massive fraud, mismanagement from before, hidden assets and deals - who knows what else.

Why would anyone choose to continue to have their money in an insolvent bank with this history.

Just my honest opinion. I had trusted Ebank, and believed it was a low risk option. As others have said, I don't see how banking will work now after this.




KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2009.08.26 01:47:00 - [152]
 


Slight topic skew....does anyone know how this is affecting DBank? Can't remember if they're still functioning? If they are, just wondering if this is causing a bank run over there?


Brock Nelson
Posted - 2009.08.26 01:48:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: KaarBaak

Slight topic skew....does anyone know how this is affecting DBank? Can't remember if they're still functioning? If they are, just wondering if this is causing a bank run over there?




You are probably 2 months out of date as DBank folded

Galal Dax
Omber Company
Knights of the Rising Phoenix
Posted - 2009.08.26 01:51:00 - [154]
 

Edited by: Galal Dax on 26/08/2009 01:50:50
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Originally by: KaarBaak

Slight topic skew....does anyone know how this is affecting DBank? Can't remember if they're still functioning? If they are, just wondering if this is causing a bank run over there?




You are probably 2 months out of date as DBank folded


Brock, if anyone offers to create an F-Bank - please pod them....


Rotnac
Caldari
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
Posted - 2009.08.26 01:52:00 - [155]
 

I'm gonna enjoy this. I will say this - if you manage to keep this from becoming a complete flaming, totally unrecoverable wreck, I will be somewhat impressed.

And also disappointed that you avoided carrying out (one of?) the biggest scams in Eve history.

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2009.08.26 01:53:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Galal Dax
Edited by: Galal Dax on 26/08/2009 01:50:50
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Originally by: KaarBaak

Slight topic skew....does anyone know how this is affecting DBank? Can't remember if they're still functioning? If they are, just wondering if this is causing a bank run over there?




You are probably 2 months out of date as DBank folded


Brock, if anyone offers to create an F-Bank - please pod them....




Well, there's a "CBank" in the works now, although they're called Eve Central Reserve.

Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
Posted - 2009.08.26 01:54:00 - [157]
 

Good luck to anyone trying to recover their money.

Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
Posted - 2009.08.26 01:59:00 - [158]
 

So, let me get this right...

Ebank never had basic controls.
Ebank never had simple, complete, regular financial statements.
Ricdic does a runner, but Ebank still doesnīt know for sure how much he embezzled.
Neither the past Chairman, nor the directors admitted to gross negligence or offered to resign.
Ebank is technically insolvent. The size of the deficit is still unknown.
The bank has defaulted by not permitting withdrawals. Interest accruals are suspended. The bank hopes to restart normal operations in a year or so.

Is that about it?

Well, there is a very simple solution. Itīs based on the principle of "The buck stops here."

Ebank is not a public corporation, therefore the owners and directors have unlimited liability.

That makes the directors personally, jointly and severally liable for the full outstanding debt. All account holders should be reimbursed in full from the personal fortunes of the directors. In fairness, that should exclude Ray and anybody appointed after him. It should definitely include past directors such as Hexxx, La Vista and others.

Not very palatable, directors, is it? Well, tough. Time to pay the piper.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.08.26 02:13:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Varo Jan
So, let me get this right...

Ebank never had basic controls.
Ebank never had simple, complete, regular financial statements.
Ricdic does a runner, but Ebank still doesnīt know for sure how much he embezzled.
Neither the past Chairman, nor the directors admitted to gross negligence or offered to resign.
Ebank is technically insolvent. The size of the deficit is still unknown.
The bank has defaulted by not permitting withdrawals. Interest accruals are suspended. The bank hopes to restart normal operations in a year or so.

Is that about it?

Well, there is a very simple solution. Itīs based on the principle of "The buck stops here."

Ebank is not a public corporation, therefore the owners and directors have unlimited liability.

That makes the directors personally, jointly and severally liable for the full outstanding debt. All account holders should be reimbursed in full from the personal fortunes of the directors. In fairness, that should exclude Ray and anybody appointed after him. It should definitely include past directors such as Hexxx, La Vista and others.

Not very palatable, directors, is it? Well, tough. Time to pay the piper.


If you're going to start importing real-world law, you could start with Chapter 11. That seems to be the sort of idea that they're going for right now.

Nemi Lethal
Gallente
DarkStar Armada
Posted - 2009.08.26 02:15:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Varo Jan
So, let me get this right...

Ebank never had basic controls.
Ebank never had simple, complete, regular financial statements.
Ricdic does a runner, but Ebank still doesnīt know for sure how much he embezzled.
Neither the past Chairman, nor the directors admitted to gross negligence or offered to resign.
Ebank is technically insolvent. The size of the deficit is still unknown.
The bank has defaulted by not permitting withdrawals. Interest accruals are suspended. The bank hopes to restart normal operations in a year or so.

Is that about it?

Well, there is a very simple solution. Itīs based on the principle of "The buck stops here."

Ebank is not a public corporation, therefore the owners and directors have unlimited liability.

That makes the directors personally, jointly and severally liable for the full outstanding debt. All account holders should be reimbursed in full from the personal fortunes of the directors. In fairness, that should exclude Ray and anybody appointed after him. It should definitely include past directors such as Hexxx, La Vista and others.

Not very palatable, directors, is it? Well, tough. Time to pay the piper.


Best comment in this entire thread.

thebarry
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2009.08.26 02:17:00 - [161]
 

I am interested in purchasing accounts from people who would rather not wait to be repaid by ebank, but I would like more info with reguards to the balance sheet so I have a better idea of what is a reasonable offer. Thanks for any info, and good luck :)

Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
Posted - 2009.08.26 02:25:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Varo Jan
...
Ebank is not a public corporation, therefore the owners and directors have unlimited liability.

That makes the directors personally, jointly and severally liable for the full outstanding debt. All account holders should be reimbursed in full from the personal fortunes of the directors. In fairness, that should exclude Ray and anybody appointed after him. It should definitely include past directors such as Hexxx, La Vista and others.




Ray,
I agree with Varo, EBANK Directors are liable for the missing ISK. EBANK should find a way to pay back its debt to its customers.




Sikozu Prioris
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Syndicate.
Posted - 2009.08.26 02:26:00 - [163]
 

EBANK has to assume that the second they enable withdrawals again, nearly all deposits will be withdrawn. Further more EBank's supposed low risk perception is now gone for account holders. Surely a higher % will have to be offered on saving accounts once back online or there is no good reason to keep any isk there after loosing all access to it for a year.

Jadun
Posted - 2009.08.26 02:36:00 - [164]
 

yo ho all

I would like to see all past and present Directors post in this thread. Please give us a headsup why they think that they deserved to be on the payroll and get Salaries.

Are the Salaries going to be paid back to the E Clown House? (Since you are no longer a bank,make up your minds and pick a new name.)

How come you got to decid what was in the best intrest of your customers. I have critically analysed the long-term sustainability of the bank and I give it the same chances as a tub of ice-cream in my presents.

I accept the fact that you are at fault for draging the situation out longer then it had to be continued.

Please take no action and give us no chance of recovery. Better to lose isk now. Rather than wait for a couple of months to hear of another situation where someone gave up late in the game and ran off with the Frozen goods.

If you go throu with this unsustainable plan of yours then at least be up front and lie some more and tell us that intrest will not be frozen just the accounts.


Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
Posted - 2009.08.26 03:22:00 - [165]
 

Time for me to link my post from last year requesting to list ebank as a possible future scam. This suggestion made Kwint angry but it turns out I was right.

http://eve-search.com/thread/865035/page/1#25

This is officially the first trillion isk scam in eve that I've been waiting for. Standard interest based ponzi scheme with hush money for the directors. I love the lack of any form of record keeping, surprising that no one on the board noticed this.

Athamai
Posted - 2009.08.26 03:39:00 - [166]
 

Edited by: Athamai on 26/08/2009 03:52:46
Have you considered asking obama for a bailout?


Garthran
AP Holdings
Posted - 2009.08.26 03:50:00 - [167]
 

Good job quoting the OP there. Fail.

Drab Cane
Carbenadium Industries
Posted - 2009.08.26 03:50:00 - [168]
 

*sigh* So much for my unbridled optimism.

I've got money in both DBank (yes, I know, I consider it lost), and EBank (which I also can't get my funds from). At least EBank is improving its communication whereas DBank continues to remain silent.

Ray, I'm confident you and the EBank team can successfully restructure the bank. I'm just really disappointed that the bank's finances were allowed to decay to this dismal state.

So much for EBank never having lost a depositor's money - that's exactly what will happen as depositors accept pennies-on-the-dollar buyouts of their accounts.

And so much for the 'high standard' that I thought EBank embodied. Perhaps after the restructuring it will.

Certainly the new banking services that are coming into play should be taking EBank's current situation as a stark warning.

Brian Kwok
Posted - 2009.08.26 04:02:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Varo Jan
...
Ebank is not a public corporation, therefore the owners and directors have unlimited liability.

That makes the directors personally, jointly and severally liable for the full outstanding debt. All account holders should be reimbursed in full from the personal fortunes of the directors. In fairness, that should exclude Ray and anybody appointed after him. It should definitely include past directors such as Hexxx, La Vista and others.




Ray,
I agree with Varo, EBANK Directors are liable for the missing ISK. EBANK should find a way to pay back its debt to its customers.






You're joking right?

The Intelligencer
Posted - 2009.08.26 04:17:00 - [170]
 

I personally thought that it was pretty apparent Ricdic was an idiot and completely untrustworthy after a few interactions with him.

Melinda Bettin
Posted - 2009.08.26 04:22:00 - [171]
 

2008.03.16 --

http://www.eve-search.com/thread/717192/page/3#68

And you know what? My advice is still the same.

Tesal
Posted - 2009.08.26 04:22:00 - [172]
 

There is a model you can use to get out of this mess if you wish, and I would structure it as follows.

1. Return investments to those who wish to cash out on a fractional basis. Figure out what you need to keep on hand to keep basic isk making operations going and offer a payout with the rest of the isk. Those who stay will get a slightly better deal than those who leave, but your core operations remain intact. You shed the banking portion of the EBank operation and focus on the industrial aspect as an IPO.

2. For those who wish to remain invested in EBank, convert all remaining deposits into an IPO, monitored by a 3rd party or several 3rd parties, and pay them out over the next 12 months AND paying the IPO operator a salary. This will allow you to keep existing isk generating operations going. this will also take most of the administrative difficulties out of EBank, and make life tolerable for you. You could take 6 weeks to figure out a restructuring deal. You can do this by taking the top 10 successful IPO issuers and offer them a deal, with remaining isk, BPO and BPC.

3. You need to lock down operations. You need to name the people who have all bad debts and fire people with conflicts of interest. Set aside a certain amount of isk for mercs and if necessary to destroy people who don't pay up. Also part of the reason others need to know, is to provide them with the information on who the need to kill for revenge. This will provide extra pressure and encourage them to pay their debts. If they face massive losses and potentially loss of their space for not paying a debt, maybe they will choose to pay their debt. For those who do not pay and are able to pay, and cannot be forced to pay, they must be named and shamed as thieves so others can know to avoid them.

Athre
Minmatar
The Higher Standard
Posted - 2009.08.26 04:57:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Marcus Baltar

I think that your share values need to be looked at; I would value your portfolio a lot lower, although you do seem to be missing 10 billion in Titans4U.



Thank you, no physical shares were given yet. I'll add this to the spreadsheet

Clair Bear
Ursine Research and Production
Posted - 2009.08.26 05:16:00 - [174]
 

I was going to troll this thread, but it's already pre-trolled. My work was done before I even began.

With that out of the way... What do EBANK directors hope to accomplish by this move? You're signing up for slavery and for what? People are holding YOU responsible for the successful Ponzi scheme pulled off by Ricdic.

I got a chuckle out of Ray not understanding why Ric handed out so many unsecured loans. Really? If you had "controls" to convince depositors and employees alike that no one person could abscond with a significant portion of the bank assets, would it not make sense to hand out unsecured "loans" to your friends and alts and simply note "paid" in the ledger when interest comes due?

EBANK is finished. Assuming your goal is to indeed run an Eve bank, your best bet is to liquidate, zero the books, and start afresh. If, however, the goal is to steal more money -- by all means, stay the course. Perpetual interest free income on even 500B should be a decent enough salary.

Here's what I would do. I would spend 400B on buying empire ice. Then invest 100B in producing armageddons and smartbombs to make sure not a single ice miner lives long enough to mine even a single ice cube. Plenty of community minded citizens will volunteer to smartbomb ice miners round the clock for no compensation. Sell the 400B worth of ice for at least 2B to 0.0 dysprosium moon holders a month later and voila! You've fixed both ebank and eve at the same time.


Astaria Pyreto
Minmatar
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.08.26 05:18:00 - [175]
 

Might help if they allowed people to talk in the channel.

Athre
Minmatar
The Higher Standard
Posted - 2009.08.26 05:18:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: Brock Nelson

2. It's known that EBank owns shares of public corporation including Flux Technologies, does EBank plan to hold onto those shares or sell them off at higher than purchase price?



The basic problem was that not enough isk was invested wisely or otherwise. Your business offering helps EBANKS customers as its presumed to be a reasonable investment. We actually need to invest more isk wisely and will continue to do so that we may surpass the ROI necessary for accounts to be turned back on.

Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2009.08.26 05:22:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: Brock Nelson
1. If a business going under, the first step would be to eliminate liabilities. First thing that came to mind with wiping out the 75b owing to employee salaries. Was that option considered? I can imagine that some people would outright reject that.

It's not owing, it's what was paid. And I'm not asking for it back.

Originally by: Brock Nelson
2. It's known that EBank owns shares of public corporation including Flux Technologies, does EBank plan to hold onto those shares or sell them off at higher than purchase price?

That depends on the price and the share. It's a portfolio we'll manage just like any other.

Originally by: Brock Nelson
3. Relating to #2, because you guys froze all accounts; customers can't retrieve their isk or earn interest. What's to stop other corporation whose shares are owned by EBank from sending dividends to EBank? I don't have any investment in EBank but if I did, my line of thought would probably be like this "If I can't get my money, why should I send these guys money?"

Nothing. I could stand over their shoulder and make them but the air tickets and detective fees to track them down would probably not be worth it.

Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2009.08.26 05:26:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: species2143
Ray I really hope you're not involved in the titans4U project like was suggested by a previous poster in this thread

I'm not.

Originally by: species2143
Now with that said the so called plan to fill the gap is a complete joke... it states % but no timetable?! What kind of a joke of management are you guys on the board? Any financial institution is able to give a best-case and worst-case timetable, do you really believe investors will be safistied with that answer until you guys get your act together? Oh I forgot, you don't really care about what the investors think... you simply assume you know what they think.

Read the OP again. And as stated previously we'll publish a plan in a month or so.

Originally by: species2143
With all this said, I really hope that EBANK makes it out of this crysis and will learn, improve and prosper.

Thank you, all the staff do too. They were free to leave before this decision was made, most decided to stay and stick it out. They're aware they're due some criticism and accept it; they're not running away with tail between their legs.

Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2009.08.26 05:27:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Stela'Artois
I havent yet checked, but I hope the Ebank website is still live, as I would like to be able to check in on my isk and at least say hello...maybe bring it some cookies or at least give it some company...

Laughing We'll definitely keep it up so you can monitor the non-progress of your ISK.

Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2009.08.26 05:29:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Block Ukx
Ray,
I agree with Varo, EBANK Directors are liable for the missing ISK. EBANK should find a way to pay back its debt to its customers.

Agreed, see the plan as outlined in the OP.


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